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	<title>Comments on: The United Auto Workers: Conventional Wisdom</title>
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		<title>By: Frank Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-44091</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-44091</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;When was the last time you heard any of these executives offering to take a pay cut or refusing a bonus to preserve their company&#8217;s future?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;On this topic, FoMoCo released information about executives&#039; 2006 earnings today:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;CEO Alan Mulally: $28.18 million compensation in 2006, including an $18.5 million bonus.  This includes a $7.5 million hiring bonus and $11 million to offset the compensation he gave up when he left Boeing.  Other compensations totaled $334,433, which included $172,974 for use of the corporate aircraft, and $55,469 for relocation costs and temporary housing.&#160; And that was just for three months in 2006, folks!&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;El Presidente de los Americas Mark Fields:  $5.57 million total compensation&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;CFO Don Leclair: $4.4 million&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Bill Ford:  $0 as per his agreement to work for nothing until the company turned around.  The company took an expense of $9.95 million, however, related to his previous stock and option awards. At least Little Billy won&#039;t have to end up living on beans and cornbread.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<p><em>When was the last time you heard any of these executives offering to take a pay cut or refusing a bonus to preserve their company&rsquo;s future?</em></p>
<p>On this topic, FoMoCo released information about executives&#39; 2006 earnings today:</p>
<p>CEO Alan Mulally: $28.18 million compensation in 2006, including an $18.5 million bonus.  This includes a $7.5 million hiring bonus and $11 million to offset the compensation he gave up when he left Boeing.  Other compensations totaled $334,433, which included $172,974 for use of the corporate aircraft, and $55,469 for relocation costs and temporary housing.&nbsp; And that was just for three months in 2006, folks!</p>
<p>El Presidente de los Americas Mark Fields:  $5.57 million total compensation</p>
<p>CFO Don Leclair: $4.4 million</p>
<p>Bill Ford:  $0 as per his agreement to work for nothing until the company turned around.  The company took an expense of $9.95 million, however, related to his previous stock and option awards. At least Little Billy won&#39;t have to end up living on beans and cornbread.</p>
<p><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Terry Parkhurst</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43453</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Parkhurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 04:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43453</guid>
		<description>I meant to write, at the end of the last post, as for the Buick plant now being idle in Flint, Michigan, I give you two words: Roger Smith. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I meant to write, at the end of the last post, as for the Buick plant now being idle in Flint, Michigan, I give you two words: Roger Smith.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Terry Parkhurst</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43421</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Parkhurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 23:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43421</guid>
		<description>Hey Al, I have to take issue with the notion that Studebakers were poorly built. Fitting for a company that started out in 1852 when brothers Henry and Clem Studebaker built three covered wagons in South Bend, Indiana, Studebaker trucks, from all the people I ever talked to who owned them, were durable and built to work. 

The aforementioned Studebaker Avanti, which was supposed to be the start of an entire new generation of cars, was built in various incarnations - the Studebaker engine was gone, early on, replaced by a GM V8, but the Lark chassis survived into the Eighties - until 1991. (In fact, some guys in Georgia, reportedly had brought the Avanti back, a few years ago, accordng to an article in &lt;em&gt;Old Cars Weekly&lt;/em&gt;; but I haven&#039;t read anything since then about that effort.) 

Studebakers, especially the Hawks, are rapidly appreciating at collector car auctions, as too are the few remaining Larks that were fitted with high-peformance variantions of the venerable 289 cid V8. 

Admittedly, I have never owned a Studebaker. But from what I recall reading, the old factory oftentimes had several generations of workers employed. I believe the workers did their job. It just got to the point where, as the old sayings goes, &quot;they killed the goose that laid the golden egg.&quot; Well, there was that, and the fact that once the word gets out that a car company is going away, and consumers fear lack of product support, it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy. Likely, this is what will do in GM, Ford or Chrysler, in the next few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Al, I have to take issue with the notion that Studebakers were poorly built. Fitting for a company that started out in 1852 when brothers Henry and Clem Studebaker built three covered wagons in South Bend, Indiana, Studebaker trucks, from all the people I ever talked to who owned them, were durable and built to work. </p>
<p>The aforementioned Studebaker Avanti, which was supposed to be the start of an entire new generation of cars, was built in various incarnations &#8211; the Studebaker engine was gone, early on, replaced by a GM V8, but the Lark chassis survived into the Eighties &#8211; until 1991. (In fact, some guys in Georgia, reportedly had brought the Avanti back, a few years ago, accordng to an article in <em>Old Cars Weekly</em>; but I haven&#8217;t read anything since then about that effort.) </p>
<p>Studebakers, especially the Hawks, are rapidly appreciating at collector car auctions, as too are the few remaining Larks that were fitted with high-peformance variantions of the venerable 289 cid V8. </p>
<p>Admittedly, I have never owned a Studebaker. But from what I recall reading, the old factory oftentimes had several generations of workers employed. I believe the workers did their job. It just got to the point where, as the old sayings goes, &#8220;they killed the goose that laid the golden egg.&#8221; Well, there was that, and the fact that once the word gets out that a car company is going away, and consumers fear lack of product support, it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy. Likely, this is what will do in GM, Ford or Chrysler, in the next few years.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Dr. No</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43363</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. No</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 14:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43363</guid>
		<description>The edit feature is working about as well as the UAW and management....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The edit feature is working about as well as the UAW and management&#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Spanish guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43335</link>
		<dc:creator>Spanish guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 08:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43335</guid>
		<description>Uh, I missed your post about the Wagner act. 

Yes, you are right: We are &quot;twins&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Uh, I missed your post about the Wagner act. </p>
<p>Yes, you are right: We are &#8220;twins&#8221;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Luther</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43285</link>
		<dc:creator>Luther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43285</guid>
		<description>&quot;rational considerations are often labelled as “evil”, “selfish”, “greedy”… &quot;

Precisely my joke.

I have been posting here since day one that the 1935 Wagner Act is at the ROOT of all of 2.625&#039;s problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;rational considerations are often labelled as “evil”, “selfish”, “greedy”… &#8221;</p>
<p>Precisely my joke.</p>
<p>I have been posting here since day one that the 1935 Wagner Act is at the ROOT of all of 2.625&#8217;s problems.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Spanish guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43270</link>
		<dc:creator>Spanish guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43270</guid>
		<description>He, he. I supposed. : )

But, OTOH, rational considerations are often labelled as &quot;evil&quot;, &quot;selfish&quot;, &quot;greedy&quot;... it is not by chance that Economics is called (by not-so-rational folks, I must say) &lt;i&gt;&quot;the dismal science&quot;&lt;/i&gt;.

Well, it is not &quot;dismal&quot; at all. It is a basic Science for productiveness, wealth and happines.

And not, I am not an Economist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->He, he. I supposed. : )</p>
<p>But, OTOH, rational considerations are often labelled as &#8220;evil&#8221;, &#8220;selfish&#8221;, &#8220;greedy&#8221;&#8230; it is not by chance that Economics is called (by not-so-rational folks, I must say) <i>&#8220;the dismal science&#8221;</i>.</p>
<p>Well, it is not &#8220;dismal&#8221; at all. It is a basic Science for productiveness, wealth and happines.</p>
<p>And not, I am not an Economist.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Luther</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43239</link>
		<dc:creator>Luther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43239</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ehrrr… why “evil”?. &quot;

I was joking Spanish guy! rational=evil...Is a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;Ehrrr… why “evil”?. &#8221;</p>
<p>I was joking Spanish guy! rational=evil&#8230;Is a joke.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Spanish guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43214</link>
		<dc:creator>Spanish guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43214</guid>
		<description>Luther wrote: &lt;i&gt;I thinks I got an “evil” twin in Spanish guy &lt;/i&gt;

Ehrrr... why &quot;evil&quot;?. 

Just say &quot;unpopular&quot;. I am not &quot;evil&quot;, Luther, I am rational.

Suppose EVERYBODY on the face on Earth gets unionized, UAW style. 

The result?: EVERYTHING is more expensive. Not a big surprise, really. We are back at square one.

Unionized workers gain benefits only if there are NO-Unionized workers paying Unionized wages (as prices) as consumers and being paid NO-Unionized wages as producers.

To sum up bluntly: Unionized workers are leeches on the backs of NO-Unionized workers.

Henry Hazzlitt explained it very well at his classic &lt;i&gt;&quot;Economics in one lesson&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. Please read (its a pleasure of clarity) Chapter 20 &lt;i&gt;&quot;Do Unions Really Raise Wages?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;: http://jim.com/econ/contents.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Luther wrote: <i>I thinks I got an “evil” twin in Spanish guy </i></p>
<p>Ehrrr&#8230; why &#8220;evil&#8221;?. </p>
<p>Just say &#8220;unpopular&#8221;. I am not &#8220;evil&#8221;, Luther, I am rational.</p>
<p>Suppose EVERYBODY on the face on Earth gets unionized, UAW style. </p>
<p>The result?: EVERYTHING is more expensive. Not a big surprise, really. We are back at square one.</p>
<p>Unionized workers gain benefits only if there are NO-Unionized workers paying Unionized wages (as prices) as consumers and being paid NO-Unionized wages as producers.</p>
<p>To sum up bluntly: Unionized workers are leeches on the backs of NO-Unionized workers.</p>
<p>Henry Hazzlitt explained it very well at his classic <i>&#8220;Economics in one lesson&#8221;</i>. Please read (its a pleasure of clarity) Chapter 20 <i>&#8220;Do Unions Really Raise Wages?&#8221;</i>: <a href="http://jim.com/econ/contents.html" rel="nofollow">http://jim.com/econ/contents.html</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Luther</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43207</link>
		<dc:creator>Luther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43207</guid>
		<description>I thinks I got an &quot;evil&quot; twin in Spanish guy....

The Gov&#039;t-worshipers tell us to think FDR was a great man when in fact he did sooo much damage to individual freedom/property rights in the US. A Mr. Fusion powered Bugatti Veyron affordable to the masses would be a reality today if the Populist-parasite FDR...Well....

I dont think the transplant company employees would except a union since they see what is going on in Detroit. Using threats of violence will put you in the unemploymant line over time and make you unemployable as well. I worked at a major telecom company and a telecom union tried to &quot;organize&quot; us... They got nowhere... This is the US south afterall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I thinks I got an &#8220;evil&#8221; twin in Spanish guy&#8230;.</p>
<p>The Gov&#8217;t-worshipers tell us to think FDR was a great man when in fact he did sooo much damage to individual freedom/property rights in the US. A Mr. Fusion powered Bugatti Veyron affordable to the masses would be a reality today if the Populist-parasite FDR&#8230;Well&#8230;.</p>
<p>I dont think the transplant company employees would except a union since they see what is going on in Detroit. Using threats of violence will put you in the unemploymant line over time and make you unemployable as well. I worked at a major telecom company and a telecom union tried to &#8220;organize&#8221; us&#8230; They got nowhere&#8230; This is the US south afterall.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sherman Lin</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-2/#comment-43195</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherman Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43195</guid>
		<description>daro31 I work in a union job in a right to work state.  I use to be a steward.  By law the union has to fight for the slugs.  For better or worse its collective bargaining.  The slugs can sue the union if they are not defended because they no longer have the right to defend themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->daro31 I work in a union job in a right to work state.  I use to be a steward.  By law the union has to fight for the slugs.  For better or worse its collective bargaining.  The slugs can sue the union if they are not defended because they no longer have the right to defend themselves.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Spanish guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43190</link>
		<dc:creator>Spanish guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43190</guid>
		<description>Just a spell word to break the enchantment at the UAW convention: &quot;Rover&quot;.  

We do not get it, fellas: The UAW is a meta car brand. Please see http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2007/index.cfm

Hey, Robert: It is not the magnificent &quot;Buick Terraza&quot;, but the &quot;UAW Buick Terraza&quot;. 

UAW members, customers are voting with their wallets, or, as Henry Ford said:

&lt;i&gt;It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.&lt;/i&gt;

...or who does NOT. You forgot to nail this point, Henry.

The 2.345743 are NOT &quot;GM&quot;, &quot;Ford&quot; and &quot;Chrysler&quot;, BUT &quot;GM&quot;, &quot;Ford&quot; and &quot;Chrysler&quot; &lt;i&gt;plus&lt;/i&gt; the UAW. 

And, do you know who is to blame?: Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and the Americans who voted him.

The big 2.5. lost control over their factories in the 1935 (the &quot;Wagner act&quot; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act).

Look at these happy thugs, after gaining control over other person´s property: http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/pic/sitdown/strikend.gif

A now look at the Fisher factory, 70 years later http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buickcityflint.JPG

I really, really would like to know more about how transplant manufacturers in the U.S.A. avoid the metastasizing of the UAW cancer. Could you illuminate us about this &lt;i&gt;fascinating&lt;/i&gt; issue, R.F.?.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Just a spell word to break the enchantment at the UAW convention: &#8220;Rover&#8221;.  </p>
<p>We do not get it, fellas: The UAW is a meta car brand. Please see <a href="http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2007/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2007/index.cfm</a></p>
<p>Hey, Robert: It is not the magnificent &#8220;Buick Terraza&#8221;, but the &#8220;UAW Buick Terraza&#8221;. </p>
<p>UAW members, customers are voting with their wallets, or, as Henry Ford said:</p>
<p><i>It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.</i></p>
<p>&#8230;or who does NOT. You forgot to nail this point, Henry.</p>
<p>The 2.345743 are NOT &#8220;GM&#8221;, &#8220;Ford&#8221; and &#8220;Chrysler&#8221;, BUT &#8220;GM&#8221;, &#8220;Ford&#8221; and &#8220;Chrysler&#8221; <i>plus</i> the UAW. </p>
<p>And, do you know who is to blame?: Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and the Americans who voted him.</p>
<p>The big 2.5. lost control over their factories in the 1935 (the &#8220;Wagner act&#8221; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act)</a>.</p>
<p>Look at these happy thugs, after gaining control over other person´s property: <a href="http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/pic/sitdown/strikend.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/pic/sitdown/strikend.gif</a></p>
<p>A now look at the Fisher factory, 70 years later <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buickcityflint.JPG" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buickcityflint.JPG</a></p>
<p>I really, really would like to know more about how transplant manufacturers in the U.S.A. avoid the metastasizing of the UAW cancer. Could you illuminate us about this <i>fascinating</i> issue, R.F.?.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Frank Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43182</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43182</guid>
		<description>And on the topic of UAW salaries and compensation, as most everyone knows UAW President Ron Gettelfinger holds one of the union seats on DCX&#039; supervisory board.  As a member of this board, he is entitled to approximately &#8364;70K in compensation.  Per UAW policy, Gettelfinger declined the compensation, directing it be given to the Hans-B&#246;ckler Foundation, a nonprofit organization of the German Trade Union Federation (as did his predecessor, Nate Gooden).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->And on the topic of UAW salaries and compensation, as most everyone knows UAW President Ron Gettelfinger holds one of the union seats on DCX&#39; supervisory board.  As a member of this board, he is entitled to approximately &euro;70K in compensation.  Per UAW policy, Gettelfinger declined the compensation, directing it be given to the Hans-B&ouml;ckler Foundation, a nonprofit organization of the German Trade Union Federation (as did his predecessor, Nate Gooden).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: daro31</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43175</link>
		<dc:creator>daro31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43175</guid>
		<description>The dollars that run around in the auto industry are huge, and a well run company with a good product and popular appeal could easily support the top management making the kind of dollars they do. It could also support the current union  union wages for those that put the cars together. 
The issue is the number of people who do nothing, very little or as little as possible. There is deadwood in labour and management. I spent a number of years on th line and then in management at the big 3. So much effort goes productivity goes in to into getting out of work, covering your A**, and the union protects those guys. If I was still one of those guys paying union dues on the line and crawling out of a car with a 60 pound heater every 56 minutes I would refuse to pay union dues to protect all of the D... F....&#039;s
If the companies can get rid of the thousands of people that they have in the last 6 months and not effect the product reaching the customers , then that should tell you just how much deadwood was hanging around. I imagine they have only managed to nibble at the edge of the forest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The dollars that run around in the auto industry are huge, and a well run company with a good product and popular appeal could easily support the top management making the kind of dollars they do. It could also support the current union  union wages for those that put the cars together.<br />
The issue is the number of people who do nothing, very little or as little as possible. There is deadwood in labour and management. I spent a number of years on th line and then in management at the big 3. So much effort goes productivity goes in to into getting out of work, covering your A**, and the union protects those guys. If I was still one of those guys paying union dues on the line and crawling out of a car with a 60 pound heater every 56 minutes I would refuse to pay union dues to protect all of the D&#8230; F&#8230;.&#8217;s<br />
If the companies can get rid of the thousands of people that they have in the last 6 months and not effect the product reaching the customers , then that should tell you just how much deadwood was hanging around. I imagine they have only managed to nibble at the edge of the forest.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff in Canada</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43163</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff in Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43163</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The end is near, and it&#039;s about time.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I think the UAW/CAW are the last stand for unions in N. America.  They are pricing themselves out of a job indeed.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I live in a small city (120,000) and a major employer closed it&#039;s doors a couple years ago. Tobacco industry. Heavily unionized.  The employees were paid enormous salaries, to the point that they closed the doors and shipped production down to Mexico.  Now all these people are out of work.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I blame them, not the company. I don&#039;t feel sorry for them at all.   A job is a priviledge, not a right.  It&#039;s survival of the fittest.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->
<p>The end is near, and it&#39;s about time.</p>
<p>I think the UAW/CAW are the last stand for unions in N. America.  They are pricing themselves out of a job indeed.</p>
<p>I live in a small city (120,000) and a major employer closed it&#39;s doors a couple years ago. Tobacco industry. Heavily unionized.  The employees were paid enormous salaries, to the point that they closed the doors and shipped production down to Mexico.  Now all these people are out of work.</p>
<p>I blame them, not the company. I don&#39;t feel sorry for them at all.   A job is a priviledge, not a right.  It&#39;s survival of the fittest.</p>
<p><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sid Vicious</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43160</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Vicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43160</guid>
		<description>Guyincognito,

I hear ya.  I was in the big meeting room at launch one time waiting for my turn to get my ass kicked.  One of the trim guys was complaining that the door trim panels were too hard to install (they were actually pretty easy to install, I thought, after having done about 50 car stereo installs in my day.)

So when door trim supplier guy asked &quot;Well, what do you want?&quot; the mfg engineer said &quot;I want to be able to throw it at the door and have it stick!&quot;

That&#039;s the state of the Detroit automakers these days in a nutshell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Guyincognito,</p>
<p>I hear ya.  I was in the big meeting room at launch one time waiting for my turn to get my ass kicked.  One of the trim guys was complaining that the door trim panels were too hard to install (they were actually pretty easy to install, I thought, after having done about 50 car stereo installs in my day.)</p>
<p>So when door trim supplier guy asked &#8220;Well, what do you want?&#8221; the mfg engineer said &#8220;I want to be able to throw it at the door and have it stick!&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the state of the Detroit automakers these days in a nutshell.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sid Vicious</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43155</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Vicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43155</guid>
		<description>Frank,

In a post (rant) last year I detailed what a UAW Plant Chairman in a Big 2.34569 plant is paid per the contract.  I&#039;m not doing the math again, but here it is in a nutshell:

12 hours a day, 365 days a year, at the highest rate of pay in the plant (Tool/Die Maker, roughly $32) at midnight shift premium (10%).   Now 12 hours means 8 hours straight time, plus 4 hours at time and a half (6 more hours pay) for a total of 18 hours pay at $32 * 1.1 = ?  Sundays and holidays are 12 hours at double time for 24 hours pay * 1.1 = ?

So in the end that means that the Chairman is paid at least $250K/yr.  For doing nothing.  A stressfull job to be sure these days, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Frank,</p>
<p>In a post (rant) last year I detailed what a UAW Plant Chairman in a Big 2.34569 plant is paid per the contract.  I&#8217;m not doing the math again, but here it is in a nutshell:</p>
<p>12 hours a day, 365 days a year, at the highest rate of pay in the plant (Tool/Die Maker, roughly $32) at midnight shift premium (10%).   Now 12 hours means 8 hours straight time, plus 4 hours at time and a half (6 more hours pay) for a total of 18 hours pay at $32 * 1.1 = ?  Sundays and holidays are 12 hours at double time for 24 hours pay * 1.1 = ?</p>
<p>So in the end that means that the Chairman is paid at least $250K/yr.  For doing nothing.  A stressfull job to be sure these days, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: guyincognito</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43153</link>
		<dc:creator>guyincognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43153</guid>
		<description>50merc,
I could give numerous examples. Two of the worst involved tooling changes that were utterly refused. One was a relocation of a part that would have saved ~ $7 million/year and required a special fixture to be made and a re-working of a couple processes. I designed the fixture contacted the tooling manufacturer, had it made, and proved that the processes could work but it was killed anyway. 

In another example I sought a tool change to remove an assembly aid which would have saved ~ $3 million/year. Manufacturing simply refused to work on it. 

These instances were indicative of the nature of the relationship between manufacturing and design engineering. And, no one could override manufacturing&#039;s decisions, up to and including VPs.

It became especially frustrating when the powers that be forced product development to nickel and dime parts with definite risk to quality, while huge savings potential existed that didn&#039;t affect part content or quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->50merc,<br />
I could give numerous examples. Two of the worst involved tooling changes that were utterly refused. One was a relocation of a part that would have saved ~ $7 million/year and required a special fixture to be made and a re-working of a couple processes. I designed the fixture contacted the tooling manufacturer, had it made, and proved that the processes could work but it was killed anyway. </p>
<p>In another example I sought a tool change to remove an assembly aid which would have saved ~ $3 million/year. Manufacturing simply refused to work on it. </p>
<p>These instances were indicative of the nature of the relationship between manufacturing and design engineering. And, no one could override manufacturing&#8217;s decisions, up to and including VPs.</p>
<p>It became especially frustrating when the powers that be forced product development to nickel and dime parts with definite risk to quality, while huge savings potential existed that didn&#8217;t affect part content or quality.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: tones03</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43151</link>
		<dc:creator>tones03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43151</guid>
		<description>&quot;I now have serious reservations about buying a car from a company who may be bankrupt sometime within the warranty period&quot;

I would highly doubt IF GM or any of the big 2.5 do file for bankruptcy they will void the warranties on their vehicles. That would be one the stupidest moves they could make, piss off people that actualy buy their vehicles by not honoring the warranty. So many other things would happen before they say your warranty is no good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;I now have serious reservations about buying a car from a company who may be bankrupt sometime within the warranty period&#8221;</p>
<p>I would highly doubt IF GM or any of the big 2.5 do file for bankruptcy they will void the warranties on their vehicles. That would be one the stupidest moves they could make, piss off people that actualy buy their vehicles by not honoring the warranty. So many other things would happen before they say your warranty is no good.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Frank Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43147</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43147</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I wonder what kind of pay and benefits the UAW bosses are giving themselves to represent the working man and woman?&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t know about benefits, but according to their April 2006 LM-2 filing with the Department of Labor, total salaries and disbursements for UAW executives in 2005 were:

Pres Ron Gettelfinger:  $156,278
Sec/Treas Mary Bunn:  $153,263
Various Vice Presidents:  $140,888 to $142,610
Various Regional Directors:  $128,356 to $148,766

Other Employees:

Clerk typists:  $49,726 to $55,365
Stenographers:  $52,812 to $54,707
Organizer:  $111,763
Bookkeeper:  $59,042
System analysts:  $107,773 to $111,760
Retiree representative:  $114,345
HVAC operator:  $80,476
Administrative assistants:  $120,697 to $137,817

I&#039;ll leave it to our readers in Detroit to let us know if these salaries are out of line with comparable jobs in that area (union and non-union).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i> I wonder what kind of pay and benefits the UAW bosses are giving themselves to represent the working man and woman?</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about benefits, but according to their April 2006 LM-2 filing with the Department of Labor, total salaries and disbursements for UAW executives in 2005 were:</p>
<p>Pres Ron Gettelfinger:  $156,278<br />
Sec/Treas Mary Bunn:  $153,263<br />
Various Vice Presidents:  $140,888 to $142,610<br />
Various Regional Directors:  $128,356 to $148,766</p>
<p>Other Employees:</p>
<p>Clerk typists:  $49,726 to $55,365<br />
Stenographers:  $52,812 to $54,707<br />
Organizer:  $111,763<br />
Bookkeeper:  $59,042<br />
System analysts:  $107,773 to $111,760<br />
Retiree representative:  $114,345<br />
HVAC operator:  $80,476<br />
Administrative assistants:  $120,697 to $137,817</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave it to our readers in Detroit to let us know if these salaries are out of line with comparable jobs in that area (union and non-union).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: OctaVentiConPanna</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43141</link>
		<dc:creator>OctaVentiConPanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43141</guid>
		<description>As far as Delphi in concerned, their 50% pay cut &quot;concession&quot; means that the worker&#039;s pay gets cut down to $14.  They currently make approx. $28.

What&#039;s the point in working for Delphi anymore?  You might as well strike.  There&#039;s nothing to lose.  The workers already have obligations: mortgage, kids college, bills. How will all that be paid for with $14/hr.? Time to strike &amp; bring &#039;em down.  If the company can&#039;t afford the labor, they have failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->As far as Delphi in concerned, their 50% pay cut &#8220;concession&#8221; means that the worker&#8217;s pay gets cut down to $14.  They currently make approx. $28.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the point in working for Delphi anymore?  You might as well strike.  There&#8217;s nothing to lose.  The workers already have obligations: mortgage, kids college, bills. How will all that be paid for with $14/hr.? Time to strike &amp; bring &#8216;em down.  If the company can&#8217;t afford the labor, they have failed.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jthorner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43139</link>
		<dc:creator>jthorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43139</guid>
		<description>&quot;I guess I’ll go with the (very close) #2 choice, a Hyundai Santa Fe.&quot;

Hyundai is a company bedeviled by labor unrest and management scandals involving bribery and more.  Just because we don&#039;t often read Korean business news in the US doesn&#039;t mean that there aren&#039;t things to worry about there as well!

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200603/kt2006032717033411990.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;I guess I’ll go with the (very close) #2 choice, a Hyundai Santa Fe.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hyundai is a company bedeviled by labor unrest and management scandals involving bribery and more.  Just because we don&#8217;t often read Korean business news in the US doesn&#8217;t mean that there aren&#8217;t things to worry about there as well!</p>
<p><a href="http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200603/kt2006032717033411990.htm" rel="nofollow">http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200603/kt2006032717033411990.htm</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Freezin</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43136</link>
		<dc:creator>Freezin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43136</guid>
		<description>As someone shopping for a new car, I want to thank the UAW for helping me in my decision.  

My wife and I are looking to replace our aging minivan with a new car, preferably a small to midsized SUV.  After much research, and looking at a recent autoshow, the Saturn Outlook made my short list.  Nice looking vehicle, and I can get  a GM discount via my MIL.  Not to mention a good friend recently got one and is very happy with it.

I now have serious reservations about buying a car from a company who may be bankrupt sometime within the warranty period.  This is a big expense for us, and I don&#039;t want to be throwing my money away.  I guess I&#039;ll go with the (very close) #2 choice, a Hyundai Santa Fe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->As someone shopping for a new car, I want to thank the UAW for helping me in my decision.  </p>
<p>My wife and I are looking to replace our aging minivan with a new car, preferably a small to midsized SUV.  After much research, and looking at a recent autoshow, the Saturn Outlook made my short list.  Nice looking vehicle, and I can get  a GM discount via my MIL.  Not to mention a good friend recently got one and is very happy with it.</p>
<p>I now have serious reservations about buying a car from a company who may be bankrupt sometime within the warranty period.  This is a big expense for us, and I don&#8217;t want to be throwing my money away.  I guess I&#8217;ll go with the (very close) #2 choice, a Hyundai Santa Fe.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jthorner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43135</link>
		<dc:creator>jthorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43135</guid>
		<description>It seems that all members of the circular firing squad are cleaning their weapons and laying in stocks of ammo.  GM management should simply copy the Toyota management payscale across the board.  If any of the &quot;talent&quot; isn&#039;t willing to work for those wages then they can go ruin some other business, perhaps the local dry cleaner.

The UAW blokes who know nothing but fighting may have some lessons to learns as well.  I wonder what kind of pay and benefits the UAW bosses are giving themselves to represent the working man and woman?

Corruption and self-dealing seem to be everywhere in this game.  While the home teams consume themselves the visitors are cleaning up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->It seems that all members of the circular firing squad are cleaning their weapons and laying in stocks of ammo.  GM management should simply copy the Toyota management payscale across the board.  If any of the &#8220;talent&#8221; isn&#8217;t willing to work for those wages then they can go ruin some other business, perhaps the local dry cleaner.</p>
<p>The UAW blokes who know nothing but fighting may have some lessons to learns as well.  I wonder what kind of pay and benefits the UAW bosses are giving themselves to represent the working man and woman?</p>
<p>Corruption and self-dealing seem to be everywhere in this game.  While the home teams consume themselves the visitors are cleaning up.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-united-auto-workers-conventional-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-43133</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3415#comment-43133</guid>
		<description>&quot;What is relevant to today is that it was a company (Studebaker)that built poor quality cars that not many people bought.&quot;

That is the crux of the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;What is relevant to today is that it was a company (Studebaker)that built poor quality cars that not many people bought.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is the crux of the matter.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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