Comments on: The Not-Quite American Prius

By: Campisi

Campisi — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:32:54 +0000

If the nextgen model were to have serious issues it would get lots of press and be a PR disaster. Toyota will not cut corners for quality on this car anytime soon.

Then they’ll stick with Denso and getting their parts from Japan.

By: KrohmDohm

KrohmDohm — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:10:54 +0000

If Toyota is desperate to have these highly-technical parts produced in the United States instead of Japan, then they would change to a U.S. supplier.

Unless Toyota management recently adopted a GM mindset, i.e. cost reduction before quality then I don’t think this is likely. The Prius is now Toyota’s flagship. Forget the Camry the Prius is their premier car. It’s the their PR front and technology leader for the foreseeable future. It’s a premier product with more demand than supply and will be sold out at whatever price ToMoCo sets within reason. If the nextgen model were to have serious issues it would get lots of press and be a PR disaster. Toyota will not cut corners for quality on this car anytime soon.

By: Campisi

Campisi — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:54:44 +0000

Do you honestly think Denso’s biggest customer doesn’t have influence in this regard? That they can’t specify something of this nature?

Yes, assuming they don’t own a controlling stake in the company. If Toyota is desperate to have these highly-technical parts produced in the United States instead of Japan, then they would change to a U.S. supplier.

By: KrohmDohm

KrohmDohm — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:40:25 +0000

Do you honestly think Denso’s biggest customer doesn’t have influence in this regard? That they can’t specify something of this nature? Just imagine that Denso tells Toyota to pack sand and makes the parts in whatever plant they please. Then the parts don’t to meet Toyota QA standards. Consequences?

By: Campisi

Campisi — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:58:17 +0000

Toyota is the one stroking the checks to Denso. Somehow I think the largest car manufacturer in the world does have some leverage. Remember, the customer is always right.

Toyota buying components from Denso doesn’t mean they can tell Denso how to run their business. Only a majority shareholding of the company can allow them to do that, right?

By: netrun

netrun — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:31:41 +0000

I thought this was the Best and Brightest? C’mon, guys. This isn’t very surprising.

1) Toyota owns part of Denso. Denso owns part of Toyota. Together they help each other grow. If Denso doesn’t think it’ll be cost/quality effective to ship the production anywhere then they don’t do it. Toyota agrees with the decision because they were part of the process.

2) The Denso guy is right that hybrid tech is changing constantly. Why send over a production line you know you are going to have to re-do a year from now? The distance adds months to your timeline to make changes. It’s better to have it in your backyard where you can make changes quickly.

3) If you move a production line there are several barriers: communication, language, and distance. The first two seem to be the same but they’re not. It can be murder to make everything happen on-time and work after the move. Lots of mistakes are easy and even more creep in that you never considered.

4) It’s expensive to make new production lines. You don’t do it unless you really have to.

Getting your panties in a bunch because you think you’re getting dissed by some Japanese guys who don’t bring you jobs on a plate is just silly.

By: KrohmDohm

KrohmDohm — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:16:58 +0000

Toyota is the one stroking the checks to Denso. Somehow I think the largest car manufacturer in the world does have some leverage. Remember, the customer is always right.

By: Campisi

Campisi — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:49:39 +0000

America has bought every available Prius for years now, and establishing top-to-bottom NA production of the Prius as soon as possible has got to be a priority for Toyota.

How much control can Toyota realistically have over Denso, though? It seems like Toyota is doing as much as it can; this is a Denso decision.

By: psarhjinian

psarhjinian — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:09:30 +0000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi

Sometimes, quality isn’t the most important thing…

As someone who’s pulled four sixty hour work weeks (thank you, SAP/R3) straight once too often, I can say:
* Karoshi isn’t uniquely Japanese.
* There are extenuating circumstances.

Extenuating circumstances, of course would be leaving work at 10pm, hitting the bar, nailing back one too many classes of Asahi and crashing in a capsule hotel–or passing out on the metro–followed by a steady diet of too much deep-fried food the next day is a usual cause. Substitute “capsule hotel” for “driver seat”, Asahi for Bud and deep-fry for McDonalds and you can see how Karoshi can be truly international.

By: blindfaith

blindfaith — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:30:58 +0000

’m now on Prius #2 (#1 was a 2005, and I got 48,000 virtually trouble free miles out of it). #2 is a 2008, and it now has 18,000 trouble free miles on it.

The expectations for great Japanese cars are expressed here. If an American car got 48,000 miles trouble free, so what statements would follow.

I got 150,000 trouble free miles from my buick 3.8 automatic. I average 28 miles to the gallon. Now we should listen for a ” so what”. The subjective need to put foreign auto on a pedestal is simply one has to jump 7 feet the other simply enters the contest.

By: pleiter

pleiter — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:28:21 +0000

Fine. I’m buying diesel. It’s only a 10% premium over gasoline now, and I’ll fix the window regulators etc. myself.

By: AG

AG — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:49:48 +0000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi

Sometimes, quality isn’t the most important thing…

By: Point Given

Point Given — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:31:55 +0000

galaxygrey….The Lexus RX 350 is built in Canada (about 65% of those on the ground at the dealers from my experience, some still come from Japan)

The 400h is solely built in Japan.

By: jurisb

jurisb — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:29:11 +0000

The thing is Japanese can see beyond their bellies and KFC diners , surprisingly japanese also think about their co-workers, and Country as such, and if they can keep jobs for Japan, why transfer them to US. A country whose people hold a ketchup leaking oversized hamburger in one hand and a lever of Las Vegas gambling machine in other while reading a story about Britney`s rehab mess aren`t somewhat persuasive enough for japanese,that the next day they would enter engineering obsessed factories and start engineering , moulding and assembling either a high revving chevy engine or duplicate Toyota`s 4bangers.

By: KrohmDohm

KrohmDohm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:40:08 +0000

This will probably only be for cutting edge parts. Keeping the QA process closer to home makes sense until the process has been finalized. I’m sure they are confident in their American plants. A reputation is a valuable asset and they are wise to take every step necessary not to squander it saving pennies per part in production costs. Sound like a lesson some other companies should have learned?

By: galaxygreymx5

galaxygreymx5 — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:33:11 +0000

Toyota and Honda also sell segment-leading premium products assembled in North America.

The Lexus RX, Acura MDX, and Acura TL are all built here.

By: M1EK

M1EK — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:30:07 +0000

But but but… geeber and his apprentice told me you couldn’t make cars in the US and make money because our labor costs were too high!

By: quasimondo

quasimondo — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:14:22 +0000

Really? That’s why both Honda and Toyota sell segment-leading vehicles (Accord and Camry) that are built right here in the good ol’ US of A?

Ya beat me to it. Statements that the better transplant cars are made in Japan just smacks of fanboyism, plain and simple.

By: menno

menno — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:11:42 +0000

Denso has factories here in Michigan, in Battle Creek. They seem satisfied with the work.

I honestly don’t blame them for wanting to keep their hybrid components production where they can still watch it CLOSELY, though.

I’m now on Prius #2 (#1 was a 2005, and I got 48,000 virtually trouble free miles out of it). #2 is a 2008, and it now has 18,000 trouble free miles on it.

By: threeer

threeer — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:30:33 +0000

Really? That’s why both Honda and Toyota sell segment-leading vehicles (Accord and Camry) that are built right here in the good ol’ US of A? I have never bought into the theory that Americans can’t build a great car, just that management gives them crappy designs and poor tools to work with. If Honda and Toyota can transplant their quality management philosophies to the the US and make a superior car, it just goes to show that with the right parameters, American workers can build the very best. Sad part is, it took an American going to Japan to show them the way, and Detroit ignored him.

By: romanjetfighter

romanjetfighter — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:05:24 +0000

I think they should keep hybrid stuff in Japan. Things built in Japan are just built better. That’s why Lexus cars are made in Japan.

If the hybrid components break in Toyota’s new hybrid, they’ll lose all their customers to Honda’s Insight