The pre-NSX Acura was a decent make, but not a good one. The NSX changed all that. Do you remember people gawking at the Acura-dealerships at the NSX? Or how it considerably improved its brand image? Our perception of Acura, as a sporty and a good-value maker was developed to an extent by the NSX.

2000GT put the obscure Toyota into spotlight in the USA, created news for it, and was an exercise in advertising on wheels. A lot like the NSX.

Also, you claim that Toyota has an excellent corporate structure(make smart decisions), but how would they not know the MASSIVE costs they pay for F1?. I mean surely, they had something in their minds before they allocate precious corporate resources to their F1 that’s barely competitive.
The answer is that it is sort of a Halo-car. A corporate statement.

Pespsico, Coca-cola, McDonalds, Disney spend millions on trying to maintain and keep a particular brand-identity. Toyota does the same by participating in F1. So is building a Halo-car for Lexus.
Keep in mind that Lexus is very weak in Europe. Even in America, compare their numbers versus the Germans.

You will also realize that its the ES, and not the LS that defines the brand. Hyundai, as we know is aiming for that (and the GS) with its Genesis.

2000GT was a fail for the same reason as the Lexus sports car: brand extension.

As for Toyota pissing away their money in F1, I couldn’t agree more. I mean we do agree, right?

Honda NSX? Another epic fail. Both in the past and the future. Same reason.

Next question?

Lexus may have a following in US, but it as bad as a brand in Europe as Zhonghua. In the European market, there is no such thing as a space for a cheap luxury car; that concept exists merely for USA.They need to make their presence felt in this market, where they sell a sales figure in TRIPLE-digits.

Also, kindly elaborate on the fact why Honda has green-lighted a NSX-successor for Acura(and that car WILL hit the market in 2011). I mean it going to be a unspeakable sin, right?

Stephan W:

Nobody else cares much about yor personal inches either, but when it comes to the positioning of the original LS44, you're just plain wrong.When it comes to the positioning of the original LS44, you’re just plain wrong.

It’s all about perception, you see — the buying public’s perception, not just yours. And you, while you may have been “there” steadfastly ignoring any inches, obviously don’t remember the image the media transmitted at the time: The Lexus LS 400 was consistently portrayed as a competitor to the Mercedes S-class / BMW 7-series, not the Mercedes E-class / BMW 5-series.

And that’s the image that’s stuck with the rest of us. (Apparently including mr Farago, before he all too hastily edited his post along your misguided lines.)

There’s nothing particularly luxurious about the Viper, but it’s considered a luxury item, just like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. You could buy a cushy Toyota Camry with leather seats and all the trimmings, but it wouldn’t be considered a luxury car–it’s still just a Toyota. On the other hand, a car like the Lexus ES 350 is considered a luxury car, but it’s really just a Toyota Camry under the skin. If it’s just a Camry, why is it a luxury car? Because it costs more money to buy than an ordinary Camry, which makes it out of the reach of an average Camry buyer.

Cars like the LF-A are not luxurious cars; they are cars that are a luxury to be able to own. Isn’t that what the Lexus brand is all about?

So if I forget that the LF-A is a Lexus supercar, and instead think of it as a Japan-market Toyota supercar, it doesn’t seem like a distraction. Why shouldn’t Toyota have some company resources devoted to supercars? If they bring the Toyota mentality to the segment and look to make money selling them, not just produce a halo car (ugh), it’s not a stretch – just another market segment to dominate.

And if they’re going to sell it outside of Japan, it needs to be branded as something. From that perspective, what else could it be besides a Lexus?

Maybe I’m wrong – maybe some idiot inside Lexus decided they need a halo car (ugh). But if, rather, it’s just yet more Toyota badge engineering, or a global Lexus-badged car intended to kickstart the brand inside Japan, then it’s not such a bad idea at all.

Man, think how much bigger and more powerful Toyota would be now if it wasn’t for that damn brand-diluting 2000GT!!

LOL!
Although, Lamborghini started out as a tractor maker and no-one holds it against them today.

I think you may be correct on this one. Still, I have to remind you and others that all rules do not apply all the time.

We tend to sometimes give absolutism to rules that we should not, and branding rules pretty much ALL fall in this category. They are not commandments, just like many of the “rules” of good art are not.

The cimmaron was a disaster that was an attempt to copy the success of the late seventies sevilles. However, the seville worked because of the oil embargo, and the fact that the buying public had not really caught on to cadillac’s dwindling build quality. They really did not think that the seville was just like a chevy, they thought it would be higher quality.

I suspect at the time though, the gurus were all talking about how well seville like moves work, and how every company should learn from it.

Honestly, the same could be said of loyal Buick buyers or Cadillac buyers or Lincoln buyers. Those who stay with a brand tend to like it.

Lexus wants to expand in markets outside North America. So far, they have not done well with that effort. If they want to dethrone the Germans from the world stage, then they need to get rid of this desirable but staid image that they have developed.

The US is not the world’s only luxury car market, and Toyota obviously doesn’t want to stand still. If they cannot shake the appliance image, then Lexus is going to stagnate.

To improve a brand, it is necessary to understand the customers who the brand targets but fails to capture. It is important to serve the core base, but if the brand is going to grow, sticking to the regulars is not enough.

I believe that this is what CarShark is getting at here. Lexus has a certain brand value that it wants to communicate, but the critics don’t read that message as the manufacturer would like them to.

More to the point, Lexus has basically been an American brand. The US is no longer enough, and Toyota wants Lexus to become a true world brand. If they want to be taken seriously globally, they need to beat the Germans on feel and vibe, and not just on the numbers. Americans may be content with winning on the numbers, but a lot of the rest of the planet is not.

Figures from Automotive News

Lexus sales for

………..Jan to Apr 2008…..+/- 2007

ES………….20,599…………-16.2%
GS…………..6,138…………-13.6%
IS………….15,516…………-1.5%
LS…………..7,914…………-32.6%
SC…………….860…………-33.6%
Lexus Cars…..52,027…………-15.4%
Tot Luxury cars.311,936……….-7.2%

These figures indicate a level of defection from Lexus cars to either the RX (staying in the Lexus family) or to competing brands.

I’m also intrigued too. Just what is a True Brand? How does it differ from a stereotype?

So, a typical Lexus buyer, who wouldn’t touch a miserably, horribly, unbelievably unreliable BMW or Mercedes with a ten-foot pole, walks into a Lexus dealership, sees a picture of the LF-A on the wall, and goes, “Damn! Now I don’t want to buy a Lexus anymore!”

Say what??

The existence of an LF-A won’t cost Lexus one solitary sale of any other car they build.

And I suppose they’ll sell as many LF-A’s as they choose to make.

What the hell is all this fuss about??

Nice job of not answering anything else I said.

What you are harping on about isn’t a true brand. It’s a stereotype. Big difference.

I’m intruiged. What a “true brand?”

Fine. But who’s to say that reliable luxurious sportiness can’t be as good or better? You see, this is where I’ve got you, fair and square! You and others keep subconsciously adding “comfort” or “softness” to Lexus’s raison d’etre, so whenever they try to inject some youthfulness or energy into the brand, you smack their hands. “No! Don’t leave the narrow band I’ve put you into. No! Don’t try to think outside the box.” You do the exact same thing to Cadillac. If they made the very best car in the whole wide world, but it handled well, I believe you wouldn’t give it five stars because “Cadillacs should only be about comfort, not cornering.” What you are harping on about isn’t a true brand. It’s a stereotype. Big difference.

You wouldn’t expect satisfied Lexus owners to say anything else. No surprises here.

The interesting question is: Those people who considered buying a Lexus but ended up buying something else. What was their impression of the brand?

These are the next group Lexus must influence if it is to expand sales and/or compensate for current owners who change brands. How to influence their perceptions?

Not sure if the LF-A will do it. Will it be considered a real Lexus, or a separate marketing exercise with no benefits trickling down to the ordinary Lexus?

Great news. That means there will be predictable ways to continue to please the people who actually buy the cars.

Lexus owners are satisfied since they are loyal to Lexus for their own reasons. Asking these owners questions will always generate the same predictable answers.

Besides, everybody knows that average Lexus buyer is way older than BMW customer and primnary occupation is ‘retired’. Who needs sex appeal in this group? I am sure the same group is primary customer for overstuffed sofas, recliner chairs with massage and tempurpedic mattresses.

For me it was 10 minutes test drive in GS and I was on my way to the BMW dealership. Hey, even Lexus salesman was boring.

A Lexus is a very reliable “luxury appliance” a “refrigerator”, surely the Lexus people know that their cars are very competent, very reliable, very detached from the emotions.

Are you kidding? What’s wrong with the current LS? That’s one sharp, sexy-looking sedan. It’s just as “emotional” as the S-Class or 7-Series and MUCH better looking besides.

In fact, I defy anyone to find me a single Lexus customer who says ho-hum, I’m bored. How about a Mercedes?

Anecdotally, I know lots of extremely satisfied Lexus owners. I talk to them in great detail about their cars and ownership experience. Not ONE hankers for more sex appeal or driver involvement. They consider German cars over-priced and… unnecessary. The consider Cadillac rubbish (sorry, but the truth hurts). They love Lexus’ customer service, reliability and hush (comfort, quiet).

Boring? Lexus? That’s a ridiculous idea. At least for Lexus owners.