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	<title>Comments on: The Game of Foxes</title>
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		<title>By: capdeblu</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-98258</link>
		<dc:creator>capdeblu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-98258</guid>
		<description>Back in 1985 I had wrecked my car (don&#039;t ask) and my mother had come to visit me from out of town and take me to look at cars.  So I had basically one day to buy a new car.  

We went everywhere and anything I liked was too expensive as I had a very small budget.  I really wanted something like a T-Bird, Regal or Accord.  But it was hopeless on my money.  We were almost to the point of looking at used cars when I saw a sign from the freeway at a Mercury dealership that said either $9995 or $10,995 I can&#039;t remember which.

So we pulled in and the salesman said he had about 80 Mercury Marquis (Ford LTD II) on the lot and I could have any one on the lot for that price.  No high pressure sales pitches or surprise charges added on unlike at the Honda dealership.

So I happily picked out a black one and drove it home that day.  It was really a nice comfortable riding car.  It looked good from the front and back but the side view was odd.  It had 5 windows of various sizes and shapes. 

I drove this car for almost 10 years with very few problems.  And finally sold it for $300 to a friend.  He told me over the holidays that he and his wife had put 300,000 miles on it when it finally died and had bought an Explorer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Back in 1985 I had wrecked my car (don&#8217;t ask) and my mother had come to visit me from out of town and take me to look at cars.  So I had basically one day to buy a new car.  </p>
<p>We went everywhere and anything I liked was too expensive as I had a very small budget.  I really wanted something like a T-Bird, Regal or Accord.  But it was hopeless on my money.  We were almost to the point of looking at used cars when I saw a sign from the freeway at a Mercury dealership that said either $9995 or $10,995 I can&#8217;t remember which.</p>
<p>So we pulled in and the salesman said he had about 80 Mercury Marquis (Ford LTD II) on the lot and I could have any one on the lot for that price.  No high pressure sales pitches or surprise charges added on unlike at the Honda dealership.</p>
<p>So I happily picked out a black one and drove it home that day.  It was really a nice comfortable riding car.  It looked good from the front and back but the side view was odd.  It had 5 windows of various sizes and shapes. </p>
<p>I drove this car for almost 10 years with very few problems.  And finally sold it for $300 to a friend.  He told me over the holidays that he and his wife had put 300,000 miles on it when it finally died and had bought an Explorer.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sajeev Mehta</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-96817</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajeev Mehta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-96817</guid>
		<description>And the beautiful part is, you can make the &quot;crap&quot; rather beautiful on the inside. 

Here&#039;s to my future &#039;81 Granada coupe with a turbo 5.0, 6-speed, Mustang/Mark VII interior and full Griggs suspension/brake package.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->And the beautiful part is, you can make the &#8220;crap&#8221; rather beautiful on the inside. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s to my future &#8216;81 Granada coupe with a turbo 5.0, 6-speed, Mustang/Mark VII interior and full Griggs suspension/brake package.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Joe O</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-96776</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-96776</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ll all see this...I&#039;m 25. I bought my first car ~5 years ago at a delaware auto auction.

It was a 1988 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 5-speed. I didn&#039;t know it at the time, but it was a hot car. The car came up to the block, and it&#039;s price kept getting lower and lower...finally, someone bid on it at $100. I bid at $200 and that was it. I got it for $200...and $300 in taxes, tags, and auction fees!

I didn&#039;t know how to drive stick. I learned....the clutch only last about 5-10k more miles. When I got it, it had a check engine light. When I put the car in neutral at speed, it would die sometimes...I&#039;d either come to a stop and restart  I spent about $150 finding out it was a $28 throttle position sensor. The suspension felt weak and clunked...me being an idiot, I replaced all the struts (macpherson front) and springs. All it needed was an $8 sway bar end link.

I drove the car hard for 28k miles. It was an amazing vehicle. With a $50 boost controller, I could unleash the full 18 PSI as early as 3000 rpms. I didn&#039;t need tread on those rear tires. 

I miss that car to this day. I sold it for $750.

In 1988, Ford built a turbocharged, intercooled 2.3 liter fuel injected four cylinder that put out 190 HP and 240 torque with a bulletproof engine, trans, limited slip differential, on 225/60/16 tires, with power everything interior, RWD, and it could get 30-32mpg highway and low 20&#039;s suburban city.

I think those are considered pretty decent specs in today&#039;s terms. The fox body has some beautiful cars thrown in with the crap.

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ll all see this&#8230;I&#8217;m 25. I bought my first car ~5 years ago at a delaware auto auction.</p>
<p>It was a 1988 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 5-speed. I didn&#8217;t know it at the time, but it was a hot car. The car came up to the block, and it&#8217;s price kept getting lower and lower&#8230;finally, someone bid on it at $100. I bid at $200 and that was it. I got it for $200&#8230;and $300 in taxes, tags, and auction fees!</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know how to drive stick. I learned&#8230;.the clutch only last about 5-10k more miles. When I got it, it had a check engine light. When I put the car in neutral at speed, it would die sometimes&#8230;I&#8217;d either come to a stop and restart  I spent about $150 finding out it was a $28 throttle position sensor. The suspension felt weak and clunked&#8230;me being an idiot, I replaced all the struts (macpherson front) and springs. All it needed was an $8 sway bar end link.</p>
<p>I drove the car hard for 28k miles. It was an amazing vehicle. With a $50 boost controller, I could unleash the full 18 PSI as early as 3000 rpms. I didn&#8217;t need tread on those rear tires. </p>
<p>I miss that car to this day. I sold it for $750.</p>
<p>In 1988, Ford built a turbocharged, intercooled 2.3 liter fuel injected four cylinder that put out 190 HP and 240 torque with a bulletproof engine, trans, limited slip differential, on 225/60/16 tires, with power everything interior, RWD, and it could get 30-32mpg highway and low 20&#8217;s suburban city.</p>
<p>I think those are considered pretty decent specs in today&#8217;s terms. The fox body has some beautiful cars thrown in with the crap.</p>
<p>Joe<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sajeev Mehta</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-96509</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajeev Mehta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-96509</guid>
		<description>big_gms: &lt;em&gt;For example, the 4 lug plain steel rims on a late ’70’s Fairmont or an early Fox based Mustang look like they came straight off from a Pinto. Does anyone know if there are a few Pinto based parts in that platform?&lt;/em&gt;

The Pinto does share the same 4-lug bolt pattern for the wheels, but that&#039;s about it. Maybe they shared steel wheels, but even the Fairmont&#039;s dog dish hubcap was unique for &#039;78. 

Aside from steel wheels, AM/FM stereos and &lt;em&gt;non-customer facing&lt;/em&gt; items like engines, transmissions and power window motors, the Fairmont is damn near a clean sheet redesign.

Off the top of my head, the only other design more clean sheet is the 1986 Taurus. It even had new engines. That doesn&#039;t happen very often at all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->big_gms: <em>For example, the 4 lug plain steel rims on a late ’70’s Fairmont or an early Fox based Mustang look like they came straight off from a Pinto. Does anyone know if there are a few Pinto based parts in that platform?</em></p>
<p>The Pinto does share the same 4-lug bolt pattern for the wheels, but that&#8217;s about it. Maybe they shared steel wheels, but even the Fairmont&#8217;s dog dish hubcap was unique for &#8216;78. </p>
<p>Aside from steel wheels, AM/FM stereos and <em>non-customer facing</em> items like engines, transmissions and power window motors, the Fairmont is damn near a clean sheet redesign.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head, the only other design more clean sheet is the 1986 Taurus. It even had new engines. That doesn&#8217;t happen very often at all&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: doctorv8</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95894</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorv8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95894</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t doubt it. The 2.3L 4 was a Pinto carryover, and the 3.3L straight six dated back even further, to the early 60s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wouldn&#8217;t doubt it. The 2.3L 4 was a Pinto carryover, and the 3.3L straight six dated back even further, to the early 60s.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: big_gms</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95886</link>
		<dc:creator>big_gms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 11:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95886</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve often wondered something about the Fox platform...I know it came out in 1978 (Fairmont/Zephyr), but don&#039;t certain elements of it go back even further? For example, the 4 lug plain steel rims on a late &#039;70&#039;s Fairmont or an early Fox based Mustang look like they came straight off from a Pinto. Does anyone know if there are a few Pinto based parts in that platform?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ve often wondered something about the Fox platform&#8230;I know it came out in 1978 (Fairmont/Zephyr), but don&#8217;t certain elements of it go back even further? For example, the 4 lug plain steel rims on a late &#8217;70&#8217;s Fairmont or an early Fox based Mustang look like they came straight off from a Pinto. Does anyone know if there are a few Pinto based parts in that platform?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Emro</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95806</link>
		<dc:creator>Emro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95806</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good read Paul! Brings back memories of my first car... a 1980 2-door Fairmont... handed down to me in the early 90&#039;s from my parents. I am grateful to have learned how to drive in that car as it had decent RWD dynamics and decent handling... winter drifting was endless fun... ahhh the memories...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for the good read Paul! Brings back memories of my first car&#8230; a 1980 2-door Fairmont&#8230; handed down to me in the early 90&#8217;s from my parents. I am grateful to have learned how to drive in that car as it had decent RWD dynamics and decent handling&#8230; winter drifting was endless fun&#8230; ahhh the memories&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95780</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95780</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;jrlombard : 
December 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm 


Like the first poster, I was, ahem, fortunate enough to own a ‘79 Mustang Turbo. Good to hear that mine wasn’t the only one that laid down a smokescreen when the turbo spooled. 

I also owned an ‘89 Mustang GT 5.0 5spd in college. Got a great deal on that car, and sold it for only $500 less than I paid for it four years later. I took that car to 170k miles and the only major issue I had was a single overheating when the fan clutch failed on a 105 degree day in the CA central valley. It was dead reliable. To this day (almost 10 years after selling it) it’s the only car I’ve owned that my wife speaks of fondly. She learned to drive a manual in that car.

As an aside, I completely spun that car three times on public roads without hitting a single thing. That car taught me the virtues of car control and how to steer a car with the throttle.
&lt;/em&gt;

Wehn my wife and I first started dating she had a seriously wimpy 84 Mustang.  By the time we were married, she had graduated to the 95 Cobra Mustang she still owns (with a 69 Porsche 911T in between).  While I make fun of her love of Mustangs, I do love the look and sound of the Cobra.  Occasionally, we will be going somewhere in town in our seperate cars, and we feel young and stupid pulling up to a red light.  The sound and acceleration of that Cobra are still impressive, even though I know that empirically, they aren&#039;t all that great by today&#039;s standards.

At least among the Mustang crowd, the Fox body Mustangs are becoming very popular due to their relatively light weight, availability of performance parts, and the cost of 60&#039;s Mustangs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>jrlombard :<br />
December 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pm </p>
<p>Like the first poster, I was, ahem, fortunate enough to own a ‘79 Mustang Turbo. Good to hear that mine wasn’t the only one that laid down a smokescreen when the turbo spooled. </p>
<p>I also owned an ‘89 Mustang GT 5.0 5spd in college. Got a great deal on that car, and sold it for only $500 less than I paid for it four years later. I took that car to 170k miles and the only major issue I had was a single overheating when the fan clutch failed on a 105 degree day in the CA central valley. It was dead reliable. To this day (almost 10 years after selling it) it’s the only car I’ve owned that my wife speaks of fondly. She learned to drive a manual in that car.</p>
<p>As an aside, I completely spun that car three times on public roads without hitting a single thing. That car taught me the virtues of car control and how to steer a car with the throttle.<br />
</em></p>
<p>Wehn my wife and I first started dating she had a seriously wimpy 84 Mustang.  By the time we were married, she had graduated to the 95 Cobra Mustang she still owns (with a 69 Porsche 911T in between).  While I make fun of her love of Mustangs, I do love the look and sound of the Cobra.  Occasionally, we will be going somewhere in town in our seperate cars, and we feel young and stupid pulling up to a red light.  The sound and acceleration of that Cobra are still impressive, even though I know that empirically, they aren&#8217;t all that great by today&#8217;s standards.</p>
<p>At least among the Mustang crowd, the Fox body Mustangs are becoming very popular due to their relatively light weight, availability of performance parts, and the cost of 60&#8217;s Mustangs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: doctorv8</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95771</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorv8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95771</guid>
		<description>Another great article, Paul.

It&#039;s been exactly 20 years since my dad drove home in a brand new, monochromatic red 1988 Mercury Cougar XR-7 with a torquey 302 and beefy Goodyear Gatorback tires. I used to come up with any excuse to borrow that car, and when I did, I was king of the high school parking lot. What great memories!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Another great article, Paul.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been exactly 20 years since my dad drove home in a brand new, monochromatic red 1988 Mercury Cougar XR-7 with a torquey 302 and beefy Goodyear Gatorback tires. I used to come up with any excuse to borrow that car, and when I did, I was king of the high school parking lot. What great memories!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: SherbornSean</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95767</link>
		<dc:creator>SherbornSean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95767</guid>
		<description>jthorner is on to something.  Whereas the Ford of the 80&#039;s re-used the Fox a dozen times (out-done only by Chrsyler&#039;s recycling of the K), today&#039;s Ford has way too many platforms.  

Look at midsize cars.  They have the S60 on the old Volvo platform.  The Taurus on a cheapened/updated version of that platform.  The S80 on the new Volvo platform.  They have the Mondeo on its own platform.  The Mazda6 on its own platform.  The Fusion on a cheapened/updated version of the 6.  Jaguar has the S-type on its own platform, that is a distant relative of the Mustang&#039;s platform.  Jaguar&#039;s X-type rides the old Mondeo platform.  And of course Aussie Ford has their own unique platform for the Falcon.

If Mulalley can simply get everyone at Ford on the same page platform-wise, he&#039;ll be earning his lofty salary.  If he can&#039;t, Ford is toast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->jthorner is on to something.  Whereas the Ford of the 80&#8217;s re-used the Fox a dozen times (out-done only by Chrsyler&#8217;s recycling of the K), today&#8217;s Ford has way too many platforms.  </p>
<p>Look at midsize cars.  They have the S60 on the old Volvo platform.  The Taurus on a cheapened/updated version of that platform.  The S80 on the new Volvo platform.  They have the Mondeo on its own platform.  The Mazda6 on its own platform.  The Fusion on a cheapened/updated version of the 6.  Jaguar has the S-type on its own platform, that is a distant relative of the Mustang&#8217;s platform.  Jaguar&#8217;s X-type rides the old Mondeo platform.  And of course Aussie Ford has their own unique platform for the Falcon.</p>
<p>If Mulalley can simply get everyone at Ford on the same page platform-wise, he&#8217;ll be earning his lofty salary.  If he can&#8217;t, Ford is toast.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: blautens</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95745</link>
		<dc:creator>blautens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95745</guid>
		<description>Our family had 2 Fox platforms (1981 Mustang, 1984 LTD II Wagon) and I don&#039;t think the platform itself was the biggest problem - they all failed in different and unique ways...one engine, two trannies, a plethora of more minor but infuriating problems.

I look back at the platform itself somewhat fondly - it was fairly efficient packaging, lightweight, RWD - GM and Chrysler didn&#039;t have anything like it.

In retrospect, I doubt it could meet anything close to today&#039;s safety standards, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Our family had 2 Fox platforms (1981 Mustang, 1984 LTD II Wagon) and I don&#8217;t think the platform itself was the biggest problem &#8211; they all failed in different and unique ways&#8230;one engine, two trannies, a plethora of more minor but infuriating problems.</p>
<p>I look back at the platform itself somewhat fondly &#8211; it was fairly efficient packaging, lightweight, RWD &#8211; GM and Chrysler didn&#8217;t have anything like it.</p>
<p>In retrospect, I doubt it could meet anything close to today&#8217;s safety standards, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: whatdoiknow1</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95736</link>
		<dc:creator>whatdoiknow1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95736</guid>
		<description>1979 Fox-bodied, 4 door, 4 cyl. Ford Fairmont, WHAT A POS! 

This was the car that ended my families relationship with domestic automobiles. Not only was this car absolute junk but the entire ownership experience was a nightmare. 

Lesson learned, when there is something wrong with just about every product a company sells DO NOT expect to get proper service because the company is incapable of doing so for over a million customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->1979 Fox-bodied, 4 door, 4 cyl. Ford Fairmont, WHAT A POS! </p>
<p>This was the car that ended my families relationship with domestic automobiles. Not only was this car absolute junk but the entire ownership experience was a nightmare. </p>
<p>Lesson learned, when there is something wrong with just about every product a company sells DO NOT expect to get proper service because the company is incapable of doing so for over a million customers.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: cretinx</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95723</link>
		<dc:creator>cretinx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95723</guid>
		<description>Never a more miserable car have I been privy to driving than those with the Fox body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Never a more miserable car have I been privy to driving than those with the Fox body.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: confused1096</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95658</link>
		<dc:creator>confused1096</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95658</guid>
		<description>My Fox body adventure came in the form of a 1983 T-Bird with a 3.8 V6. That car taught me a lot about car repairs. It loved to break down far away from home and in remote backwoods locations.
It ran badly longer than many of my cars have ran at all. I sold it with 187,000 miles on the clock, it ran for 6 more years on that engine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->My Fox body adventure came in the form of a 1983 T-Bird with a 3.8 V6. That car taught me a lot about car repairs. It loved to break down far away from home and in remote backwoods locations.<br />
It ran badly longer than many of my cars have ran at all. I sold it with 187,000 miles on the clock, it ran for 6 more years on that engine.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nicodemus</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95656</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicodemus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95656</guid>
		<description>&quot;...become Fords most advanced&quot;...RWD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;&#8230;become Fords most advanced&#8221;&#8230;RWD<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jthorner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95653</link>
		<dc:creator>jthorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95653</guid>
		<description>I look forward to the story on Ford&#039;s Camelot era.  Also, I misspoke earlier.  Petersen was the guy who bought Jaguar while Nasser was indeed the Nasser did the rest of the buying.  I had forgotten about Trotman.  He pushed the Ford 2000 plan which clearly had mixed results.  The idea was to have &quot;one Ford&quot; worldwide and the single design for the Mondeo/Contour was one of the results.   Interestingly enough, such a strategy is once again top priority at Ford under the new-new boss!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I look forward to the story on Ford&#8217;s Camelot era.  Also, I misspoke earlier.  Petersen was the guy who bought Jaguar while Nasser was indeed the Nasser did the rest of the buying.  I had forgotten about Trotman.  He pushed the Ford 2000 plan which clearly had mixed results.  The idea was to have &#8220;one Ford&#8221; worldwide and the single design for the Mondeo/Contour was one of the results.   Interestingly enough, such a strategy is once again top priority at Ford under the new-new boss!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Nicodemus</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95649</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicodemus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95649</guid>
		<description>Interesting that one of the Fox&#039;s predecessors, the Falcon platform has by way of Grandfather&#039;s axe development become Fords most advanced. Kind of strange that the current Mustang rides on a much less sophisticated set-up than the base model Falcon now does even though the &#039;Stang is ostensibly newer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Interesting that one of the Fox&#8217;s predecessors, the Falcon platform has by way of Grandfather&#8217;s axe development become Fords most advanced. Kind of strange that the current Mustang rides on a much less sophisticated set-up than the base model Falcon now does even though the &#8216;Stang is ostensibly newer.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: big_gms</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95648</link>
		<dc:creator>big_gms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95648</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My only experience with a Fox platform car was very negative and sort of funny at the same time.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Around 1998-99, my sister was looking for a cheap used car. I found an &#039;85 Mercury Marquis (not the Grand Marquis) with-supposedly-69,000 miles for only $500. My sister wanted me to check it out. I called up the owner, who went on and on about what a great car it was and that she really didn&#039;t want to sell it, etc. My wife and I went to go look at it.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Well, the car was a basketcase! The owner had this big smelly dog and had just tried to wash the dog smell out; the seats were still wet. It still stunk to high heaven, too. Someone had t-boned it at some point, so the driver&#039;s door was replaced with a different colored one that was sloppily painted burgundy in an unsuccessful attempt to match the rest of the car...the B-pillar was bent so the door had to be slammed shut!&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I drove it and noticed that the engine (3.8 liter V6) was making a lot of clattering noise. Going down the street, the car suddenly changed direction! I jerked the wheel and got the car going straight again, with the steering wheel about 30 degrees off center, when...it happened again in the opposite direction! The front end felt really sloppy and clunked going around corners. The ball joints, and possibly the whole front end, were completely shot.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I brought it to a mechanic that I had made an appointment with to look at it, but I told him not to bother. I didn&#039;t need a mechanic to tell me the car was a POS!&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Remember the one engine warning light Ford vehicles of that era had (no seperate temperature and oil lights)? On the way back to the owners place, the engine light came on while idling at a stop sign. Great, no oil pressure! I said to my wife, &quot;Geez, let&#039;s get this thing back ASAP. I don&#039;t want the engine to go before we get there!&quot; I told the owner, &quot;Sorry, not interested. Bye!&quot; and we quickly left.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;That car either had 169,000 very hard miles or 69,000 very, very hard miles on it. That wasn&#039;t the last I saw of it, though. A short time later it turned up at a shop around the corner from my father-in-law&#039;s place, where it sat for a while, and then went away for good. The engine probably died.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;I called up my sister and told her I had good news and bad news: Bad news, the car&#039;s a POS. Good news, you&#039;re not buying it and didn&#039;t have to suffer checking it out! Man, that was an awful car!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->
<p>My only experience with a Fox platform car was very negative and sort of funny at the same time.</p>
<p>Around 1998-99, my sister was looking for a cheap used car. I found an &#39;85 Mercury Marquis (not the Grand Marquis) with-supposedly-69,000 miles for only $500. My sister wanted me to check it out. I called up the owner, who went on and on about what a great car it was and that she really didn&#39;t want to sell it, etc. My wife and I went to go look at it.</p>
<p>Well, the car was a basketcase! The owner had this big smelly dog and had just tried to wash the dog smell out; the seats were still wet. It still stunk to high heaven, too. Someone had t-boned it at some point, so the driver&#39;s door was replaced with a different colored one that was sloppily painted burgundy in an unsuccessful attempt to match the rest of the car&#8230;the B-pillar was bent so the door had to be slammed shut!</p>
<p>I drove it and noticed that the engine (3.8 liter V6) was making a lot of clattering noise. Going down the street, the car suddenly changed direction! I jerked the wheel and got the car going straight again, with the steering wheel about 30 degrees off center, when&#8230;it happened again in the opposite direction! The front end felt really sloppy and clunked going around corners. The ball joints, and possibly the whole front end, were completely shot.</p>
<p>I brought it to a mechanic that I had made an appointment with to look at it, but I told him not to bother. I didn&#39;t need a mechanic to tell me the car was a POS!</p>
<p>Remember the one engine warning light Ford vehicles of that era had (no seperate temperature and oil lights)? On the way back to the owners place, the engine light came on while idling at a stop sign. Great, no oil pressure! I said to my wife, &quot;Geez, let&#39;s get this thing back ASAP. I don&#39;t want the engine to go before we get there!&quot; I told the owner, &quot;Sorry, not interested. Bye!&quot; and we quickly left.</p>
<p>That car either had 169,000 very hard miles or 69,000 very, very hard miles on it. That wasn&#39;t the last I saw of it, though. A short time later it turned up at a shop around the corner from my father-in-law&#39;s place, where it sat for a while, and then went away for good. The engine probably died.</p>
<p>I called up my sister and told her I had good news and bad news: Bad news, the car&#39;s a POS. Good news, you&#39;re not buying it and didn&#39;t have to suffer checking it out! Man, that was an awful car!</p>
<p><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95645</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95645</guid>
		<description>Try THIS:
     Driving with the wife to the 1982 World&#039;s Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee. A state away, I am driving the  Mustang at 100--125 mph for 20 miles with a Porsche 944 and an unidentified Mercedes. Great fun!
  Hit the hotel, take a tour of the Smokies. At one of the peaks, the engine coughs, and  the equivalent of Hiroshima exits the tailpipe of the Mustang. Raw oil dripping from the exhaust all the way back to the hotel. My diagnosis--blown turbocharger seal.
  I coat-hangered the wastegate open, and capped off the oil feed line using an a/c cap from the local hardware store. Wasnt too bad...until the manifold vacuum started pulling oil from the oil return line to the pan.
   It took 24 quarts of oil to make it back to St Louis, and it was a white-knuckled ride the whole way as the turbo impeller would  periodically scrape its housing, sending a loud &quot;ZING!&quot; throughout the interior.
 3 days,$380 in parts, and 3 hours of carport time later, it was back on the road(I had to soak the cat converter for 2 days in carb cleaner from all the oil that went through it). 
  Those were the days when turbos were oil cooled only, no coolant running through it. Carbed and not injected.
   Yes, a primitive 1st effort, but I swore right then and there NO MORE TURBO CARS for me.
   A few years later, I was replacing turbos on Mazdas and Subarus, and those owners were just as bummed out as I was with my Mustang.
   Then there was the failure-prone ignition module that left us stranded until it cooled off...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Try THIS:<br />
     Driving with the wife to the 1982 World&#8217;s Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee. A state away, I am driving the  Mustang at 100&#8211;125 mph for 20 miles with a Porsche 944 and an unidentified Mercedes. Great fun!<br />
  Hit the hotel, take a tour of the Smokies. At one of the peaks, the engine coughs, and  the equivalent of Hiroshima exits the tailpipe of the Mustang. Raw oil dripping from the exhaust all the way back to the hotel. My diagnosis&#8211;blown turbocharger seal.<br />
  I coat-hangered the wastegate open, and capped off the oil feed line using an a/c cap from the local hardware store. Wasnt too bad&#8230;until the manifold vacuum started pulling oil from the oil return line to the pan.<br />
   It took 24 quarts of oil to make it back to St Louis, and it was a white-knuckled ride the whole way as the turbo impeller would  periodically scrape its housing, sending a loud &#8220;ZING!&#8221; throughout the interior.<br />
 3 days,$380 in parts, and 3 hours of carport time later, it was back on the road(I had to soak the cat converter for 2 days in carb cleaner from all the oil that went through it).<br />
  Those were the days when turbos were oil cooled only, no coolant running through it. Carbed and not injected.<br />
   Yes, a primitive 1st effort, but I swore right then and there NO MORE TURBO CARS for me.<br />
   A few years later, I was replacing turbos on Mazdas and Subarus, and those owners were just as bummed out as I was with my Mustang.<br />
   Then there was the failure-prone ignition module that left us stranded until it cooled off&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Sajeev Mehta</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95643</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajeev Mehta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95643</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe how many people here owned the carb&#039;d 2.3L turbo Foxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I can&#8217;t believe how many people here owned the carb&#8217;d 2.3L turbo Foxes.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: speedlaw</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95641</link>
		<dc:creator>speedlaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95641</guid>
		<description>Yes, had one too.  a 1979 Mustang Turbo, with the horrid 2.3.  I also had a Callaway Turboed Scirocco, which as a &quot;garage effort&quot; totally blew away :pun intended: the factory effort.

The four speed was missing a true fourth gear.  one two was very quick, three was a bit high, and fourth was an way-Overdrive.  The key was to rev the tar out of the thing and get the car to overboost, with a buzzer mounted somewhere in the dashboard.  You had to redline it to get a shot at being near any torque or boost for the third and fourth gears.

It hated hot weather and idling, a real problem in NYC traffic.  The TRX tires were good for the time, and the suspension, for 1979, was OK until the car got loose.  The carb was the problem, as the intake tract was &quot;wet&quot;, unlike today&#039;s turbos, or my Callaway.  Gas would pool, and you were done.  There was no intercooler, of course, but the idea of running fuel/air through the plumbing was the true difficulty.  I&#039;m sure that the &quot;draw through&quot; design was a lot easier than trying to pressurize the carb, but plain and simple, it didn&#039;t work.

When it ran well, you only wished someone had sprung for the five speed, or at least properly speced the ratios in the four speed.  

We were glad to see it go back into lease land.  This was another example of &quot;I will never buy an American Car&quot;, converting lifelong US car buyers, my parents.

A few years later, I had a decent highway run with an SVO Mustang, and was impressed highly, wondering how the same company could greenlight for production such a turd as was the &#039;79</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, had one too.  a 1979 Mustang Turbo, with the horrid 2.3.  I also had a Callaway Turboed Scirocco, which as a &#8220;garage effort&#8221; totally blew away :pun intended: the factory effort.</p>
<p>The four speed was missing a true fourth gear.  one two was very quick, three was a bit high, and fourth was an way-Overdrive.  The key was to rev the tar out of the thing and get the car to overboost, with a buzzer mounted somewhere in the dashboard.  You had to redline it to get a shot at being near any torque or boost for the third and fourth gears.</p>
<p>It hated hot weather and idling, a real problem in NYC traffic.  The TRX tires were good for the time, and the suspension, for 1979, was OK until the car got loose.  The carb was the problem, as the intake tract was &#8220;wet&#8221;, unlike today&#8217;s turbos, or my Callaway.  Gas would pool, and you were done.  There was no intercooler, of course, but the idea of running fuel/air through the plumbing was the true difficulty.  I&#8217;m sure that the &#8220;draw through&#8221; design was a lot easier than trying to pressurize the carb, but plain and simple, it didn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>When it ran well, you only wished someone had sprung for the five speed, or at least properly speced the ratios in the four speed.  </p>
<p>We were glad to see it go back into lease land.  This was another example of &#8220;I will never buy an American Car&#8221;, converting lifelong US car buyers, my parents.</p>
<p>A few years later, I had a decent highway run with an SVO Mustang, and was impressed highly, wondering how the same company could greenlight for production such a turd as was the &#8216;79<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: 86er</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95635</link>
		<dc:creator>86er</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95635</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Hank :

My favorite Fox platform memory: rounding up cattle in my grandmother’s ‘85 Crown Vic in a Texas pasture (including a chase across a dried up pond). Now that’s fun.&lt;/em&gt;

Hank, if you mean the full-size Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Cars you&#039;re thinking of the Panther platform, which came out about the same time as the Fox platform in 1979, and is still alive, but barely kicking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>Hank :</p>
<p>My favorite Fox platform memory: rounding up cattle in my grandmother’s ‘85 Crown Vic in a Texas pasture (including a chase across a dried up pond). Now that’s fun.</em></p>
<p>Hank, if you mean the full-size Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Cars you&#8217;re thinking of the Panther platform, which came out about the same time as the Fox platform in 1979, and is still alive, but barely kicking.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Niedermeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95630</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Niedermeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95630</guid>
		<description>jems86: I drove 404&#039;s back in the late 70&#039;s, Here&#039;s my story about them:   http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/auto-biography-19-beverly-hills/

jthorner &amp; stevenlang,
I plan to do a story about Ford&#039;s &quot;Camelot&quot; era, focusing on Peterson&#039;s enormous contribution in saving Ford from its near-death in 1980.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->jems86: I drove 404&#8217;s back in the late 70&#8217;s, Here&#8217;s my story about them:   <a href="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/auto-biography-19-beverly-hills/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/auto-biography-19-beverly-hills/</a></p>
<p>jthorner &amp; stevenlang,<br />
I plan to do a story about Ford&#8217;s &#8220;Camelot&#8221; era, focusing on Peterson&#8217;s enormous contribution in saving Ford from its near-death in 1980.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Lang</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95624</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Lang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95624</guid>
		<description>jthorner, truer words have yet to be spoken. Although I do think that Alex Trotman did an extremely good job as well. If it weren&#039;t for the Ford BRATS and their spoiled little family, I wouldn&#039;t have been surprised if Trotman would have put the business in a far different direction than Nasser. 

Trotman was more of a champion of internal growth and understood that Ford&#039;s management had to be streamlined for it to remain competitive. He also managed to keep very good relations with the suppliers and dealers. Two very important items that his successor never fully valued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->jthorner, truer words have yet to be spoken. Although I do think that Alex Trotman did an extremely good job as well. If it weren&#8217;t for the Ford BRATS and their spoiled little family, I wouldn&#8217;t have been surprised if Trotman would have put the business in a far different direction than Nasser. </p>
<p>Trotman was more of a champion of internal growth and understood that Ford&#8217;s management had to be streamlined for it to remain competitive. He also managed to keep very good relations with the suppliers and dealers. Two very important items that his successor never fully valued.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jthorner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-game-of-foxes/comment-page-1/#comment-95608</link>
		<dc:creator>jthorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 06:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-game-of-foxes/#comment-95608</guid>
		<description>I had a summer job at a Ford dealership in 1979 and one of my occasional assignments was to go do dealer trades.   I still remember driving a 5.0 l Mustang Pace Car replica with TRX wheels &amp; tires and a beast of a manual transmission for about 90 miles to make the sway.  The graphics were absolutely horrible, but the driving was plenty fun.

What a great job for an 18 year old car loving kid that was!

You can see a photo of one here:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1309417627067709611qkMFnt

Donald Petersen deserves a lot of credit for what he did for Ford in his days there.  The Fox platform was his baby, and he also realized that something completely new was needed to get Ford back into the game in the 80s when they were once again falling off the cliff.  He pushed the Taurus out and made history with that car.  Ford hasn&#039;t had a really great President since he left.

The real key aspect of top management is making decisions, and the consequences of those decisions can sometimes go on forever.   Ford&#039;s buying binge during the Nasser years was clearly a big mistake in retrospect.  Imagine if the CEO of Ford at the time had focused all the resources of the company on making the best products for the brand portfolio it already had instead of squandering money and people resources on Jaguar, Land Rover, the Mazda turn around, a line of junk yards in England! and Volvo.   Imagine what they could have done by sticking all that energy into the brands they already had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I had a summer job at a Ford dealership in 1979 and one of my occasional assignments was to go do dealer trades.   I still remember driving a 5.0 l Mustang Pace Car replica with TRX wheels &amp; tires and a beast of a manual transmission for about 90 miles to make the sway.  The graphics were absolutely horrible, but the driving was plenty fun.</p>
<p>What a great job for an 18 year old car loving kid that was!</p>
<p>You can see a photo of one here:</p>
<p><a href="http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1309417627067709611qkMFnt" rel="nofollow">http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1309417627067709611qkMFnt</a></p>
<p>Donald Petersen deserves a lot of credit for what he did for Ford in his days there.  The Fox platform was his baby, and he also realized that something completely new was needed to get Ford back into the game in the 80s when they were once again falling off the cliff.  He pushed the Taurus out and made history with that car.  Ford hasn&#8217;t had a really great President since he left.</p>
<p>The real key aspect of top management is making decisions, and the consequences of those decisions can sometimes go on forever.   Ford&#8217;s buying binge during the Nasser years was clearly a big mistake in retrospect.  Imagine if the CEO of Ford at the time had focused all the resources of the company on making the best products for the brand portfolio it already had instead of squandering money and people resources on Jaguar, Land Rover, the Mazda turn around, a line of junk yards in England! and Volvo.   Imagine what they could have done by sticking all that energy into the brands they already had.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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