It was never my wish to, as a consequence upon buying the Element, to automatically inject a gross-out factor for America’s youth for that particular model. Before I bought the Element, I looked at a Scion, but the one I drove had no power. Aesthetically, I like boxy shapes, which is subjective and for which, as in all taste (or in my case lack thereof), there is no accounting.

I don’t think this is a rationalization; I recall hearing this when they launched the brand and admiring it as a brilliant business insight. At a time when every critic and consumer is moaning about the choke-hold the franchised dealer system has on decent customer service, Toyota is repeating the behind-the-scenes part of the Lexus formula: you can’t make your current brand’s dealers toe the line to any great degree, but if you create a new brand, you can rewrite the maker-dealer relationship from a clean sheet of paper. And so they have.

What’s more, this time they’ve further refined their profitability model by centralizing all the accessories that used to be dealer-installed. This not only hogs all the dealer-installed options loot for Corporate, it also delivers a legitimate consumer benefit by offering a greater range of choices.

The youth market is the right market for the Scion structural experiment for two simple reasons, neither of which has anything to do with “coolness”: They’re less brand loyal and thus easier to attract to an unknown brand, and they’re more into personalizing with accessories.

Toyota has a lot more to gain than to lose with the Scion experiment, and I applaud them for trying it. Now if they can just stock that corner of the showroom behind the beverage cooler with cars that aren’t bloated dog crap, they’ll really be onto something again.

I have never even been remotely interested in any Scion model, and I’m younger than you (barely). It’s not just old people who don’t like these things

I’m 25. I AM broke. That’s why I need a car that will last forever without costing me a pile of money by breaking every three weeks. That’s why I quit buying shitty used GM trucks and bought a 1st-gen xB. The difference in gas alone means it’s costing me less, per month, than my Blazer did, not even counting repairs. Used cars suck.

You may not be able to market cool, but you sure can market UGLY! I got interested in the xB when I heard one of the old morons at work going on and on about how much he DESPISED it, and he hadn’t even sat in one. Well, the enemy of my enemy is my friend! I checked out the brand online, decided I liked the features, loved the no-bullshit pure pricing, picked out the options I wanted (try that at any other car dealer), and bought. Best decision I ever made.

The new one is just craptastic. All I hear is soccer moms and dads prattling on about how KEEYOOOT they are, because it’s basically just a baby Highlander. My dad LOVES them. As for me? Totally uninterested.

And before anybody starts ragging too hard on the originals, do your homework: used xB’s with 30 and 40,000 miles on them still routinely sell for MORE than they sold brand-new. There’s still plenty of demand for the original, quirky, Boomer-offending, toaster on wheels. It’s the crap they’re currently selling that is thoroughly uninteresting.

After all, there’s a lot of competition for Boomers, and you all sure as hell have enough money to pick and choose. When I bought, there wasn’t anything at all around like the box.

And yes, plenty of old people drove the original. Being driven mostly by 20-somethings OR 70-year-olds is NOT THE SAME as being driven mostly by 53-year-olds who just sold their Explorer now that both the kids are out of college.

I think Scion will be just fine if they axe their Corolla Wagon and their inadequate Fit-Fighter, and start selling something INTERESTING again.

So….are you saying buying into the ‘enlargement’ spams was a mistake?

What’s your job? I think I’m in the wrong field.

“Our automotive day dreams involve Lotuses.”

As educated people, I believe our automotive dreams involve Loti.

Not too hard to grasp right? Well Toyota seems incapable of doing so.

I wholeheartedly agree with TriShield. Like many other Scion owners, I’m satisfied with my purchase despite the marketing strategy.

Toyota has an opportunity here for a speculative, experimental brand (not one developed through focus groups). Drop the self-consciously hip thing and instead use Scion to introduce interesting JDM cars to the US (some of these cars are just inherently cool). Some will fail, some will succeed. Then use this knowledge to further refine and focus other Toyota products.

They really messed up on the Xb and Xd models that were designed for the American market.

If you believe that practice makes perfect, what Toyota is doing with Scion is developing the next generation of engineering talent and acumen in design and manufacture of small cars. This is why Toyota is the most profitable small car maker…at the cost of 100k units of Corrola or RAV4 sales, (which they sell all they can build anyway) they are developing engineering talent and gaining experience in how to keep making small cars better. Call it a engineering skunk works and trianing program. And since they do get revenue for these cars, all they really need to do is break even on Scion, which is getting the customer to pay for training their engineers…..since Scions do not correlate size-wise directly to any other Toyota products other than the Yaris or Corrola per se, you can’t say they are badge engineering in the sense GM does it….a Xd is not a corrola with a different grill and different badge…..

All in all, pretty smart way to develop a customer base and engineering/design talent for the future….

I have two teenagers, one at home, the other in college (and broke, but working on it); Scion isn’t even remotely on the radar.

Both of my kids want VW’s (Beetle and GTI), they don’t even notice any other cars…

I am beginning to believe that this is also another cheap cost-cutting measure. They can save a few coins by reducing the amount of glass they are installing into their cars. It also reduces that amount of labor and time that is need to make each car.

IMO, this is the type of shit that Toyota fan will notice and it will cause them to move away from the brand.

As Robert said, it’s a product driven by marketing, not the other way around. Epic fail.

But the new generation? There is no excuse for the 600+ pound (25%) weight gain. And it really lost a lot of the character that made it fun.

I hope they return to the original idea.

It is interesting though, that other companies didn’t jump on the bandwagon and come out with a youth brand.

Nope. But, back then we had used VW Bugs. Engine problems. Yank the thing and we can rebuild it in the living room.

In a lot of ways it was a terrible car, but it was cheap to buy and to own.

http://www.slate.com/id/2195594/?GT1=38001

Perspective of an 18 year old whose 50/60 y.o. parents even thought Scions were ugly and gross and got a Camry instead for himself. :)

If you are undercapitalized, or in a small market you only have a couple of each thing, Murphy’s law says you will have the wrong color or equipment for the customer that does come in. Most customers won’t stop because they can only see one or two of the model they want on your lot. So then the mega-dealer wins, well not exactly.

All dealerships in metro areas sit on finite amounts of property (very expensive property to be exact) You are the sales manager and you have the bucks to order the scions in by the truckload.

Now do they go in front of along side of or off site from the regular toyotas. Or do you just put a couple of each out front because the front line is only a city block long?

Meanwhile the truckloads of camrys and toyota SUV’s are arriving daily. I guess we put a few more of these out front and the rest on the off site lot.

Now the salesmen (women) who are too lazy to read the sales promotion literature and specs on the regular toyota line have to present these new funny looking things. They fudge it, because it doesn’t represent more sales but just different sales.

The service guy is driving the parts manager nuts because the scions are starting to make appointments in the overcrowded service bays and need parts that aren’t in yet. The customer’s scion is waiting for it’s part but the service lot is choked with todays customers already. Where does the lot boy stick this unwanted thing?

So what started out as the number one dealership selling the number one franchised cars is now drifting towards chaos as nobody is happy: Management, sales people, customers, mechanics, etc.

But you know what get some help from out back another load of Scions just arrived out front and the trailer is blocking customers from entering off the highway.

This is different than GM having too many dealers but in some ways worse. The scion should go.