But you don’t need the full billion to be successful, right? GM sold about around 9.2 million cars worldwide last year. That’s less than 1% of the Chinese population.

Not to mention that the Chinese pupolation grows at more than 10M per year and GDP grows at 10% per year. And yeah, the early players (such as VW and Honda) are already at a huge profit, even if the Chinese government seize all their properties today.

labor force: 791 MM
unemployment: 9% – 20%
GDP per capita: $6,800
below poverty: over 150 MM
PPP (kinda like per capita income): $5,600

So, to say “The Chinese automotive market has over a billion potential customers” is stretching it. Most people would be happy with some food… but most can’t even afford that.

Aww, for cryin’ out loud… Most people around this forum just wish that GM or Ford would build a decent, reliable, compact car, preferably with a class-leading warranty. If they did, we’d probably buy it.

1. A Chinese manufacturer who has developed their quality to Western standards enters the market on their own. (Haier)

2. A well-funded Chinese company swoops in and picks up the remmnants of a bankrupt GM or Ford, or a spun-off Chrysler. They’ve already done this with MG Rover.

Those of you secretly wishing for the death of GM or Ford might consider the ramifications of the Chinese government controlling one of America’s largest industrial corporations.

Well, I am a Canadian, living in Canada. Since I do not have 1st hand info from Iraq, I got that American soldier rape news from the “left-leaning” CNN, the very source that also reported the shootings of the fleeing Tibetans.

P.S. Now we are talking about democracy, here are my two cents:

1) The United States is a true democracy. The military is under the control of the president, the senate and the congress. And those are elected by American citizens.

2) Iraq is not a democracy. The American military is the supereme power in Iraq right now. This amry is not controlled by a body elected by the Iraqis, and thus the Iraq citizens can’t do nothing about the sword over their heads.

Democracy is not about the mercy of a foriegn government, Chinese, American or whatever. Democracy is about counter-balance the power, the force. You must have a say in the ruling military in your country to have freedom and liberty.

Thus, democracy can be possible in Iraq, only if Iraqis can participate in American elections, OR after an American withdraw and leaving Iraq with their own army (controlled by a government they elected).

I dont think that wsn’s comments were inapproproate. Alot of this discussion is about politics and governments.

John Williams:

There’s alot of americans who feel like that. We are currently having an election. It’s on the minds of alot of us. You dont really need to lean too far left to hold those views.

About cars (at last):

I beleive that China will enter the US and European car market. I beleive that all the current manufacturers will help them in return for a piece of the pie. I beleive that quality will improve as they get more experience. I beleive americans will buy cheap cars. We do now.

This has been in interesting dicsussion about global politics vis-a-vis car manufacturing. I particularly enjoyed the insights of people who live or lived there. Thanks.

I don’t know about that, but some senators and representatives would. :-)

It’s usually not a good idea to introduce such corrosive political opinions in a discussion that is largely about automobiles.

At any rate, the above accusations are patently false and are merely the byproducts of whatever left-leaning media source you pieced them from.

“From the Chinese Marketing and Communications web site in UK:

They named their company Qirui, which has connotations of good fortune. It’s pronounced a little like “cheery,” but the official English name was spelled without the second “e,” to indicate that Chery would always be one step removed from the complacency that comes from happiness.”

Yeah, right. It’s just pure coincidence that it is very similar to an established and possibly iconic US auto manufacturer’s name: Chevy. It sounds like they either enjoy thumbing their noses at GM or they think Americans are exceptionally stupid (or perhaps both).

I hate to get into the poilitics of the situation as anything said here will not make one wit of difference in the readers views. To know how things operate in China just look at Noley’s post. The government, I mean the “People”, own all means of production right down to the citizen’s lives. I think that it is obvious that this type of government views these joint ventures as 100% theirs, whatever the level of foriegn investment. They have no problem with violating intenational copyright laws, stealing car designs, why wouldn’t they steal the means of production as well? Somebody equated China to the South American countries as though that made them somehow less totalitarian and less likely to sieze the means of production in these joint ventures with other nations. It seems to me that the seizing of property, including the oil and gas fields developed with foriegn energy companies, has occurred and rather recently in South America.

No I do not live in China. However, a good friend of mine and his parents have spent many years in the far east including, for his parents, several years recently in China. They most certainly do not describe it as a free, loving, utopia. The way that they described the government’s treatment of the people was right in line with Noley’s description of how the people are treated, like chattle to be trained, sold, bred, and if necessary put down.

Again, politics is involved with big business anywhere, and certainly not exclusive to “Communism”. State and provincial governments will change laws and waive taxes to place auto plants, and industry lobbies will always try to exert influence on governments to legislate favourable policies.

American soldiers shoot Iraqis like dogs (not to mention rape the women). Does that mean the rest of the world should not do business with the United States?

Replying to They named their company Qirui, which has connotations of good fortune. It’s pronounced a little like “cheery,” but the official English name was spelled without the second “e,” to indicate that Chery would always be one step removed from the complacency that comes from happiness.

Don’t attempt to pronounce “Qi Rui.” The vowels and consonants of Chinese don’t correspond 100% to those of English. You won’t get it, without seriously learning the Chinese language (which takes you more than 10 years if you are past 30). Just make your life easy and use “Cherry.”

Printing is basically a manufacturing operation and varying levels of computer technology is involved, so skilled labor is required. Chinese firms, with the support of thhe government, will select where a printing facility will go. They take the land, build a printing plant, then take the people who were living there and train them to be press operators, prepress workers, how to bind books, run computers, do design, etc, etc. They also build houses and schools for these same people. They do much the same for all types of manufacturing.

Cars are obviously a lot more complex than many other manufactured products, but Chinese people are as smart as any other and can be trained to do the work. Like I said in an earlier post, give this about a decade and China will be a player in the world auto market. And quality will rise, just as it has in Japan and South Korea. It’s all a matter of time, and China has always taken the long view.

From the Chinese Marketing and Communications web site in UK:

They named their company Qirui, which has connotations of good fortune. It’s pronounced a little like “cheery,” but the official English name was spelled without the second “e,” to indicate that Chery would always be one step removed from the complacency that comes from happiness.

On another note, how is “Chery” pronounced? “Cherry” (like the fruit) or “cheery” (like the mood)?

SHANGHAI, China — General Motors Corp. intends to keep investing in China’s fast-growing market, looking to offer technologically advanced vehicles and to buy more parts, Chairman Rick Wagoner said Monday.

GM’s sales jumped 36.7% in the first three quarters of this year, helped by strong demand for newly launched models, such as the Buick LaCrosse.

I can’t help but wonder if GM is on the verge of abandoning the US auto market for greener pastures. (Yeah, I know this isn’t a GM Death Watch, but this all seems to fit together like a big jigsaw puzzle.)

From 1731 to 1813, the Swedish East India Company made 132 return trips to Canton, China. They brought back to Europe luxury goods as (50 million pieces of) china, tea and silk. There were Flemish, British, Dutch, Danish and French East India Companies as well. From the old stories, nothing have changed, except that we’re not importing luxury goods anymore.

Owning 51% of a strong bull is better than owning 100% of a crippled calf.
The Chinese partners in the auto industry understand this.

“…if the (Chinese) government saw fit and thought it would benefit them, they wouldn’t hesitate to take over any industry there.”
True. But I can’t see any scenario where that would be the case. Even if the foreign partners were somehow a pain in the ass, it couldn’t possibly match the searing burning sensation that the Chinese government would feel in the posterior if they annexed foreign investments.

Let’s just put it this way: the U.S., Japan, and Germany wouldn’t stand around and shrug their shoulders if some gross misappropriation of assets occurred.

Despite what some of you like to think, the government doesn’t have an iron-fisted grip on business and Chinese society. Captalism rules. Consider: the government for many years tried to keep Toyota out of China because of its intense dislike of Japan, but Toyota kept coming and purely on the strength of its products is now experiencing triple-digit growth.

The government’s greatest fear is social instability. It has enough bad memories of the days of Mao and his many revolutions to know that it is far better to preserve the status quo and make periodic adjustments than to introduce sweeping changes at a time of already radical change in China.

If the government tried to do something so drastic as to nationalize the auto industry, you can be sure that most foreign investment in China would come to a grinding halt. The resulting social unrest from loss of jobs and economic recession would be government’s worst nightmare come true.

I grew up there and I am a native speaker of Chinese. My family came to Canada years ago, since we didn’t like the regime and my dad was accomplished (in math) enough to find a job here. Nevertheless, we visited back mutliple times over the years.

I never doubt that the government would shoot at people if challenged. But don’t forget that the auto sector actually opened up after the 1989 TianAnMen incident.

The communist leaders are now most interested in:
1) luxurious houses and cars
2) women
3) possibly Harvard eduction for their children

They are not interested in:
communism

Things do evolve. Right now the most dangerous part of Chinese politics is that giant gap between the rich and the poor. News headlines are like “BMW X5 (delibratly) hit a poor woman” or “Tomson (developer) introduces 4 luxury condo towers, starting at 40M yen (5M USD) per suite.” The party, this time, is there to protect the capitalists from the rage of the poor workers, with their army.

That’s funny. Hey China, there is an ex GM SUV plant in Oklahoma City for sale…

“interchangeable body panels, doors and other parts”

Too funny. R&D? Research and Duplicate.