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	<title>Comments on: Tesla Death Watch 30: &#8220;Violent Understeer&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/</link>
	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:11:54 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: davejay</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-898851</link>
		<dc:creator>davejay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-898851</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;“Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.”&lt;/em&gt;

Arguably, this is a smart decision for the target audience. A person driving a Tesla isn&#039;t looking to eke out a few extra miles from a charge; they&#039;re looking for performance.

When you leverage regenerative braking in the &quot;apply-the-brakes-but-not-really-because-you&#039;re-just-kicking-in-the-generator&quot; sort of way, you give up smooth, linear braking feel. In a performance car, that&#039;s not the right trade-off, but in a Prius that makes sense.

On the other hand, when you lift off the gas, the generator doesn&#039;t have to kick in...but they kick it in. You can&#039;t really call it &quot;regenerative coasting&quot;, though, so I&#039;m not surprised they call it &quot;regenerative braking.&quot; Think of it as regenerative braking that stops the moment you explicitly touch the pedal, under the assumption that you want braking feel/performance more than economy at that point...and coast down if you want economy (which is what you should do anyway.)

In a way, I think that&#039;s even more interesting: they get the range they do without more aggressive regenerative braking! That means for a less performance-oriented model they have that as a range-enhancing option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>“Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.”</em></p>
<p>Arguably, this is a smart decision for the target audience. A person driving a Tesla isn&#8217;t looking to eke out a few extra miles from a charge; they&#8217;re looking for performance.</p>
<p>When you leverage regenerative braking in the &#8220;apply-the-brakes-but-not-really-because-you&#8217;re-just-kicking-in-the-generator&#8221; sort of way, you give up smooth, linear braking feel. In a performance car, that&#8217;s not the right trade-off, but in a Prius that makes sense.</p>
<p>On the other hand, when you lift off the gas, the generator doesn&#8217;t have to kick in&#8230;but they kick it in. You can&#8217;t really call it &#8220;regenerative coasting&#8221;, though, so I&#8217;m not surprised they call it &#8220;regenerative braking.&#8221; Think of it as regenerative braking that stops the moment you explicitly touch the pedal, under the assumption that you want braking feel/performance more than economy at that point&#8230;and coast down if you want economy (which is what you should do anyway.)</p>
<p>In a way, I think that&#8217;s even more interesting: they get the range they do without more aggressive regenerative braking! That means for a less performance-oriented model they have that as a range-enhancing option.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: steronz</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-894011</link>
		<dc:creator>steronz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-894011</guid>
		<description>TTAC - I understand the joy in jumping on bad news about Tesla, but this blog post is just as unsubstantiated as Tesla&#039;s own performance claims.  It&#039;s clear that this Tony guy isn&#039;t a race car driver, and terms like &quot;violent understeer&quot; indicate that he has no idea what he&#039;s talking about.  The car may very well understeer a lot, but I&#039;m not about to trust this guy&#039;s word on it.  Repeating his uneducated words doesn&#039;t really help TTAC&#039;s credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->TTAC &#8211; I understand the joy in jumping on bad news about Tesla, but this blog post is just as unsubstantiated as Tesla&#8217;s own performance claims.  It&#8217;s clear that this Tony guy isn&#8217;t a race car driver, and terms like &#8220;violent understeer&#8221; indicate that he has no idea what he&#8217;s talking about.  The car may very well understeer a lot, but I&#8217;m not about to trust this guy&#8217;s word on it.  Repeating his uneducated words doesn&#8217;t really help TTAC&#8217;s credibility.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: BlackbirdHighway</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-892141</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackbirdHighway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-892141</guid>
		<description>&quot;Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit&quot;

I think that is the problem. This site has already labeled the car just as you have stated, without bothering to test drive it. Being skeptical is one thing, unfounded heavily biased negativity is another. If I ran Tesla I would tell this site to get lost.

It pretty obvious that &quot;Tony&quot; has never driven anything higher performance than a Lincoln Town Car and doesn&#039;t know squat about sports cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that is the problem. This site has already labeled the car just as you have stated, without bothering to test drive it. Being skeptical is one thing, unfounded heavily biased negativity is another. If I ran Tesla I would tell this site to get lost.</p>
<p>It pretty obvious that &#8220;Tony&#8221; has never driven anything higher performance than a Lincoln Town Car and doesn&#8217;t know squat about sports cars.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: doug</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-892011</link>
		<dc:creator>doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-892011</guid>
		<description>That guy&#039;s writing doesn&#039;t inspire confidence in his understanding of driving dynamics.  Even the Elise will exhibit understeer unless you drive it right (as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8woGjKDSpSU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;exhibited&lt;/a&gt; by Jeremy Clarkson).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->That guy&#8217;s writing doesn&#8217;t inspire confidence in his understanding of driving dynamics.  Even the Elise will exhibit understeer unless you drive it right (as <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8woGjKDSpSU" rel="nofollow">exhibited</a> by Jeremy Clarkson).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Pat Holliday</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-891931</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Holliday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-891931</guid>
		<description>I drove a Tesla a month or so ago. 

Sure, the weight of those batteries made it prone to understeer. Can&#039;t say I found anything approaching &#039;violent understeer&#039; (wtf) though.

It&#039;s easy to bash Tesla for many things, but driving dynamics should probably be way down the list, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I drove a Tesla a month or so ago. </p>
<p>Sure, the weight of those batteries made it prone to understeer. Can&#8217;t say I found anything approaching &#8216;violent understeer&#8217; (wtf) though.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to bash Tesla for many things, but driving dynamics should probably be way down the list, IMO.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Stein X Leikanger</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-891791</link>
		<dc:creator>Stein X Leikanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-891791</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lAbzCUjxbg

Some &quot;smart&quot; car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lAbzCUjxbg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lAbzCUjxbg</a></p>
<p>Some &#8220;smart&#8221; car.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: no_slushbox</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-891621</link>
		<dc:creator>no_slushbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-891621</guid>
		<description>Tesla has a lot of good will as a company trying to make an electric car.

If the initial cars have some problems people aren&#039;t going to loose faith in the company.

It Tesla tries to cover those problems up then people will loose faith in the company.

If I ran Tesla and a website called &quot;The Truth About Cars&quot; wanted to test my car I would quickly throw them the keys.  Especially if their editorial policy meant that they were more than willing to spring for insurance, lodging, etc.

Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit, but Tesla would gain the street cred of having notoriously tough reviewers review their car, and they could spin the flaws pointed out in the review to be part of an open source development program.

If Tesla continues to be cowardly and secretive about the car&#039;s flaws they are going to stop being seen as an innovative new car company and start being seen as a smaller, overpriced version of GM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Tesla has a lot of good will as a company trying to make an electric car.</p>
<p>If the initial cars have some problems people aren&#8217;t going to loose faith in the company.</p>
<p>It Tesla tries to cover those problems up then people will loose faith in the company.</p>
<p>If I ran Tesla and a website called &#8220;The Truth About Cars&#8221; wanted to test my car I would quickly throw them the keys.  Especially if their editorial policy meant that they were more than willing to spring for insurance, lodging, etc.</p>
<p>Sure the review would harshly label the car as an undeveloped piece of shit, but Tesla would gain the street cred of having notoriously tough reviewers review their car, and they could spin the flaws pointed out in the review to be part of an open source development program.</p>
<p>If Tesla continues to be cowardly and secretive about the car&#8217;s flaws they are going to stop being seen as an innovative new car company and start being seen as a smaller, overpriced version of GM.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: JEC</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-891421</link>
		<dc:creator>JEC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-891421</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d consider &quot;violent understeer&quot; that horrifying tendency of a crappy front-drive car to head straight for the opposite ditch when you try to turn at a moderate pace. It&#039;s damn scary in its own right, even if you aren&#039;t spinning ass-first off the road. Watch the Top Gear Comedy Handling Award given to the Smart for an example - it simply plows off the track with nary a hint of moving in the direction of the front wheels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;d consider &#8220;violent understeer&#8221; that horrifying tendency of a crappy front-drive car to head straight for the opposite ditch when you try to turn at a moderate pace. It&#8217;s damn scary in its own right, even if you aren&#8217;t spinning ass-first off the road. Watch the Top Gear Comedy Handling Award given to the Smart for an example &#8211; it simply plows off the track with nary a hint of moving in the direction of the front wheels.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: David Holzman</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-891121</link>
		<dc:creator>David Holzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-891121</guid>
		<description>Well, I didn&#039;t drive the thing, but I did ride in it at scary speeds (to me) on a moderately twisty road and it hung on tight, and felt extremely well controlled. I could not sense any understeer. So, I&#039;m inclined to take this one report with a grain of salt unless I hear that others have had this experience. It&#039;s quite possible though that a harder turn than I experienced might have resulted in the front wheels losing grip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, I didn&#8217;t drive the thing, but I did ride in it at scary speeds (to me) on a moderately twisty road and it hung on tight, and felt extremely well controlled. I could not sense any understeer. So, I&#8217;m inclined to take this one report with a grain of salt unless I hear that others have had this experience. It&#8217;s quite possible though that a harder turn than I experienced might have resulted in the front wheels losing grip.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Horner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890991</link>
		<dc:creator>John Horner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890991</guid>
		<description>I notice that they &quot;fixed&quot; the transmission by getting rid of it:

&quot;Early cars had two forward speeds, perhaps to reduce noise at speed, but they had clutch problems so now there is just one forward gear.&quot;

And this electric car doesn&#039;t have regenerative braking!

&quot;Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.&quot;

Wow, with all of that money Tesla hasn&#039;t done anything much more sophisticated than the backyard electric car conversions tinkerers have been cooking up since the 1970s.

Tesla the man died penniless and nearly forgotten, a fate he didn&#039;t deserve. Tesla the company is earning it&#039;s fate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I notice that they &#8220;fixed&#8221; the transmission by getting rid of it:</p>
<p>&#8220;Early cars had two forward speeds, perhaps to reduce noise at speed, but they had clutch problems so now there is just one forward gear.&#8221;</p>
<p>And this electric car doesn&#8217;t have regenerative braking!</p>
<p>&#8220;Tesla claim that the car has regenerative braking but it really doesn’t, at least not as normally understood. When you lift off, there is some engine braking effect, as the motor functions as a generator, but there is no attempt to capture energy from actual braking.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow, with all of that money Tesla hasn&#8217;t done anything much more sophisticated than the backyard electric car conversions tinkerers have been cooking up since the 1970s.</p>
<p>Tesla the man died penniless and nearly forgotten, a fate he didn&#8217;t deserve. Tesla the company is earning it&#8217;s fate.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Samir</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890871</link>
		<dc:creator>Samir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890871</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with redbarchetta... the only time I&#039;ve experienced anything resembling &quot;violent understeer&quot; is when I let go of a drift or a half-donut (I love U-Turns) and the rear tyres regain traction and snap the car straight again. Does that count? 

It seems obvious that integrating a heavy electric drivetrain would change the dynamics of a car as light as the Elise, though. At its low weight, almost anything is a significant addition. Adding 100 lbs to an SUV or to an Elise... one of them feels it more than the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;m with redbarchetta&#8230; the only time I&#8217;ve experienced anything resembling &#8220;violent understeer&#8221; is when I let go of a drift or a half-donut (I love U-Turns) and the rear tyres regain traction and snap the car straight again. Does that count? </p>
<p>It seems obvious that integrating a heavy electric drivetrain would change the dynamics of a car as light as the Elise, though. At its low weight, almost anything is a significant addition. Adding 100 lbs to an SUV or to an Elise&#8230; one of them feels it more than the other.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Chen</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890721</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890721</guid>
		<description>Tesla is giving the Roadster the Palin treatment.  Or is it the other way around?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Tesla is giving the Roadster the Palin treatment.  Or is it the other way around?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Redbarchetta</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890711</link>
		<dc:creator>Redbarchetta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890711</guid>
		<description>Can someone define &quot;violent understeer&quot; for me. I get violent oversteer and snap oversteer but how can understeer, &quot;plowing&quot;, be violent, it&#039;s probably really annoying. Is it a case of the car starting to oversteer naturally and then the traction control yanks the power away pulling the car out of the turn?

It sounds like a case of software or the power control module not being smooth with the traction control. My guess is with the amount of torque available from the motor that the car has very dangerous oversteer and the traction control normalizes the car. It&#039;s still something they should have fixed before the gave test drives and definately before they started selling it, especially for that price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Can someone define &#8220;violent understeer&#8221; for me. I get violent oversteer and snap oversteer but how can understeer, &#8220;plowing&#8221;, be violent, it&#8217;s probably really annoying. Is it a case of the car starting to oversteer naturally and then the traction control yanks the power away pulling the car out of the turn?</p>
<p>It sounds like a case of software or the power control module not being smooth with the traction control. My guess is with the amount of torque available from the motor that the car has very dangerous oversteer and the traction control normalizes the car. It&#8217;s still something they should have fixed before the gave test drives and definately before they started selling it, especially for that price.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: noreserve</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890661</link>
		<dc:creator>noreserve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890661</guid>
		<description>Tesla old Indian word for hype</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Tesla old Indian word for hype<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: unregular</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890611</link>
		<dc:creator>unregular</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890611</guid>
		<description>understeer eh?  how much does this thing weigh with all those batteries?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->understeer eh?  how much does this thing weigh with all those batteries?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Dr Lemming</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-30-violent-understeer/comment-page-1/#comment-890531</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=125671#comment-890531</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what I think of this article&#039;s tone.  Yes, it is unnerving that Tesla is having such basic teething problems given all of the hype.  Wasn&#039;t the association with Lotus supposed to smooth the development process?  

That said, launching a car company is a messy business that takes longer than most folks tend to expect.  Drudge-style headlines are easy to do but not always fair.  I would be more concerned about Tesla&#039;s credibility if it had offered its cars for full testing and they proved woefully unbaked.

Is it possible to successfully launch an automobile company in today&#039;s environment, where people expect a pretty fast and flawless launch?

I&#039;m hesitant to say all of this because I don&#039;t wish to be viewed as defending a company that has not played its cards very well.  I just don&#039;t want to see the journalistic bar set so high that every new automotive entry is all but guaranteed to be &quot;tuckered.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;m not sure what I think of this article&#8217;s tone.  Yes, it is unnerving that Tesla is having such basic teething problems given all of the hype.  Wasn&#8217;t the association with Lotus supposed to smooth the development process?  </p>
<p>That said, launching a car company is a messy business that takes longer than most folks tend to expect.  Drudge-style headlines are easy to do but not always fair.  I would be more concerned about Tesla&#8217;s credibility if it had offered its cars for full testing and they proved woefully unbaked.</p>
<p>Is it possible to successfully launch an automobile company in today&#8217;s environment, where people expect a pretty fast and flawless launch?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hesitant to say all of this because I don&#8217;t wish to be viewed as defending a company that has not played its cards very well.  I just don&#8217;t want to see the journalistic bar set so high that every new automotive entry is all but guaranteed to be &#8220;tuckered.&#8221;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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