I bought my first car six months ago, a dark green 2002 Subaru Impreza 2.5 TS. I purchased it from a local dealership for $5,800 with 97,100 miles on the odometer. Stick-shift, Subaru AWD, and sticky studded snows made this a solid candidate for the harsh Vermont winters. And while this past snowy season didn’t turn out to be too frightening, the car did.

About a month after purchase, my mechanic threw it up on the lift and showed me that my rear subframe was laced with rust and together by a thread. He said that the car was becoming more dangerous to drive and that resolving the situation (new frame, struts, cables) would set me back $1,500 at least. A month later the Subie got involved in a late night tussle with a deer, and the deer won. This repair needed to be made as the deer left the scene with my headlight for a necklace. I got a buddy to reconstruct the face of my car for $500 — headlight, new bumper, etc. I kept driving the heap despite my mechanic’s earlier warnings that soon the frame would fall out and I’d be propelling the thing like my name was Flintstone.

But the final blow came last month when coolant and oil began leaking out onto the engine. By this point the car has only 110,000 on it but Subaru’s are notorious for needing head gasket repairs around this mileage. It was time for me to think about my options. This new diagnosis would set me back another $2,000.

So the sum total of what I would need to put into this car — between frame and engine — would be near-as-makes-no-difference $3,500-4,000 to keep it going. By this point I think it’s a no-brainer. Ditch the Subie and pick up a late nineties Corolla with few miles. I just hate giving up on something I’ve driven a sinful 16,000 miles.

Help!(?)

Steve Says 

The only help I can give you is prayer.

“Heavenly father. I pray that you will give this young lad the wisdom of Darwin and the fear of the most conservative of Camry drivers.”

A frame hanging by a thread represents death on the road. At the salvage auctions you will sometimes see these rustbuckets totaled to the point where the survival of the prior occupant was between doubtful and impossible. You will also see the word ‘Biohazard’ scrawled on the windshield to reflect the residue left from the rotting corpse that once occupied the driver seat.

Cars that have severe rust issues end up with failing brake lines, broke axles, defective sub frames, and all sorts of steering nastiness when you are traveling at rates of speed that endanger you and every other human being in your domain.

You can kill people. You can kill yourself. If you want funny on the open road, go ride a lawnmower.

This is what you do. Sell the vehicle at a public auction that is frequented by dealers. Sell it with the following announcement, “AS/IS, Frame Damage, Parts Only, Dealer Bid Only, No Individuals”.

The auction should have a specific bill of sale for “parts only” vehicles. Sell it. Sign it. Consider your cost a cheap education compared to what could have been.

Sajeev Says:

I hope you learned your lesson, don’t buy an older car without a Pre-Purchase Inspection. A PPI woulda spotted the subframe rot rather quickly, and been worth every penny spent.

That’s for next time.  Now you dump this machine with all kinds of warnings (and a Bill of Sale stating it’s sold AS-IS with frame damage) for the next owner.  Should you buy a Corolla?  Maybe.  But any FWD machine with snow tires will be adequate, and some of them have decent suspensions too.  Sure, it ain’t a Subie, but that’s also a good thing in some respects.

Go test drive some sporty FWD machines (Focus, Civic, any Mazda, etc) in your price range and, for the love of all that’s right in this world, get a PPI this time!!!

Hello Steve,

I’ve enjoyed for a couple of years now the articles you’ve written for TTAC and the insight you give on used cars and the business you work in. Since you do provide your contact information, I thought I’d write to ask a question relevant to my used-car-shopping situation.

The situation – this girl (my cousin, in her early 20s) used to have a nice 2005 Civic that was given to her new by our grandparents when she finished high school. This would normally have served her until the end of time, but she sold it last year for very stupid reasons.

Now she is back in Atlanta, has no money of her own (she lives at home and is supported by her mom) and is trying to get her life back on a more solid track, but can’t do anything without a car. Her mom would rather not spend a few grand on another car, but it is a much smaller burden on her than using her own car, and they do not live in an area where there is any realistically-usable transit. So cheap used car it is.

My cousin would prefer some kind of SUV for style reasons, but while I love her and want her to get her life together, I don’t think her own preferences have much weight here – she is being supported by her mom, who is also prepared to spend ~$3,000 on a car for her despite her own bad decisions.

I think the primary need is for something as reliable as one can get for that kind of money that is not too expensive to maintain (ex.: my mom’s husband knew of a well-kept one-owner 190E in Toccoa being sold by a friend, but I would not consider an old Mercedes, even a well-kept low-mileage one, to be a low-cost-of-maintenance car.)

It strikes me that in this price range the ownership and maintenance history of a particular car is probably more important than the brand reputation of a given make and model. My own firsthand knowledge is centered around ’90s Nissans and old Fiats, as that is what I own or have owned and maintained myself.

I will appreciate any response you may have the time to give.thanks,

Steve Says:

A few things…

I really don’t know why you are putting yourself out there in the first place. Let’s face it. Her mom doesn’t need to indulge your cousin at this point in her life and neither do you.

The following words you wrote were the only ones that mattered.

“Now she is back in Atlanta, has no money of her own (she lives at home and is supported by her mom) and is trying to get her life back on a more solid track, but can’t do anything without a car.”

Bull.

She can apply for jobs and get a taxi when an interview comes along. If she’s in the Atlanta outskirts, she has plenty of time to take long walks and reflect on her present and future.

Your cousin has time to read, write, exercise, plan, learn, develop a skill or three, and figure out the way forward. She doesn’t have to worry about where her next meal will be coming from, or whether there still will be a roof over her head in the near future.

This is what we call in life, a learning opportunity. And a golden one at that. We all go through them. A hardship can often be a good thing because it teaches you a valuable lesson about who you are as a person, and who you can trust as a friend.

When you constantly give people things they don’t rightfully earn (such as money, love, respect, etc.), that thinking process stops. The indulgences become entitlements, and the entitlements become expectations. Several books have highlighted this unique process of babying as ‘economic outpatient care’ but it applies to all things emotional and financial. In the long run, you make the person more sick and dependent on handouts by shoveling unearned gifts their way.

So why would you want to help give someone a new freebie when they have recently committed, “very stupid decisions” with their old freebie? Think about it. Some people are smart enough to eventually move a swing when it’s facing a brick wall.

Do that instead. Listen to her. Be there for her. Do what you can for her. Heck, 2 years from now she may be the one on top of the world and you may be experiencing your own struggles.

But mark my words. She won’t be successful if her mom simply gives her a car. Let her earn it.

Anonymous writes:

Last year my Ranger blew up on me and all I had to my name was about $500 and a motorcycle. I’d gone through a string of bad cars and decided to go the new route, trading in the motorcycle (it was impossible to sell, no bites) and getting a 2011 Honda Fit. It’s a great car, and as it’s brand new, has needed no maintenance. I’m now making a loan payment of $230, with an extra $60 in insurance.

One of the reasons I didn’t get a loan for a used car was that the used car market here in Oregon is particularly awful. It seems that the cheap, well-maintained $3000 Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas with 110k on them from five years ago are all gone (or not up for sale).

Indeed, even as prices for used cars go up into the $8k range (and beyond), it seems the cars just get later in model year, but not higher in actual quality with attention to proper care and so forth. For the most part, my experience has been that the used car market here has dried up. You have a choice of cars, all with 140k on them and in various states of disrepair, your only choice is how expensive and what year you want. I kid you not, there was a local craigslist ad here in town for a 1987 Toyota Camry Wagon that said $5200 FIRM on it. Oh, goodness.

I’ve put the Fit online, and have some bites but I have no idea if I want to sell it or not. The idea is to come out with around $5000 in cash, spend $4000 on a car and keep $1000, plus the added benefit of around $300 in savings each month. I have a couple of questions for you.

First, how difficult is it to sell a car you still don’t own (the Fit)? Is it a total pain?

Second, is the used car market starting to come down a bit in exorbitant pricing? I’m starting to see a *few* cars online that might be worth the trouble but I’m still leery.

Should I make the move to my comfort zone, a used car and no payment, or should I keep the stability of my new car?

Steve Says:

It sounds like you have commitment issues, not car issues.

There is nothing wrong with paying off a loan and enjoying 10+ years of no payments. Throw in 30+ mpg’s, minimal maintenance for a lot of that long haul, and a past track record for exceptional reliability, and it looks like you have finally found yourself a keeper.

I realize that it’s tough to read an enthusiast site and buy nothing for 10 years plus. On the other hand, the Fit fills in a nice niche that was partially occupied by the Mazda Protege 5 back in 2002.

Sporty, fun to drive, cheap to own.

I would argue that the Protege is a competitive vehicle in today’s world, and that a decade from now the Fit will settle in that same square hole.

Keep the Fit, and invest in your long-term sanity.

Sajeev says:

Steve nailed it: you need to focus on your sanity. Reselling a car for your “payoff+profit” asking price isn’t gonna work smoothly.  I guess if you wait long enough, the right buyer will come along…but that’s not a healthy outlook.

I’ve heard that the sky-high, 2-5 year old used car market is letting up a little bit in some urban areas, but will it last?  I have too much uncertainty in the economy, political elections or not.  And if the economy gets worse, used cars are a better option. Combined with the, um, automotive density of Oregon (relative to my Houston habitat) and that you want an inflated(?) asking price/profit margin for your Fit, I can’t give you the answers you wanna hear for questions 1 and 2.

I picked up a Forester for a song and a dance ($500) this past summer, and did brakes and an oxygen sensor. We have less than $750, total, into it. It presently has 256K miles (another reason I don’t really want to use it as a daily driver!) I’ve had my 1999 Saab 9-5 wagon for about two and a half years, from 160K miles to 197K miles.

I bought it for $1,000 and other than rebuilding the brakes (and doing a very thorough detailing when I first got it) haven’t done anything other than routine maintenance.

My wife has a 20-minute highway commute with her 2003 Subaru Baja, about 25 miles round trip, with heavy traffic. I have a 110-mile per day round trip commute, mostly highway cruising, although there is some gridlock in the mornings.

Most of the repairs and maintenance I do myself. But the CEL codes on the Saab have me and my indy mechanic stumped. So – I am thinking about replacing the Saab.

Having an extra car as a daily driver has proven to be very convenient and very cheap thus far. So it’s a hard decision. The $600 or so in insurance (per year) on the Forester has paid for itself in using the thing like a truck, avoiding rentals, etc. But I don’t want to drive it every day.

So do I try to cash in two beaters and buy a nicer vehicle? We’re paying down student loan debt, saving for a house, and generally live pretty simply. I’ll consider all comers. But Panthers are not practical for my commute! Your thoughts?

Steve Says:

A lot of folks get past the emissions issue by registering their vehicle in an area that doesn’t require them.

That’s the first thing I would do if emissions are a long term concern with either of the cars.

Alternatively, since this is a third car, you can add another family member or close friend to the title who may sometimes require an extra car in a pinch. It would provide both of you with a nice hedge in the event of the unexpected. If the CEL on the Saab bothers you, take it to a Swede specialist or start drilling hard at finding the fault at the enthusiast sites.

With specialists you do pay more. But you also save yourself the trauma of a catastrophic financial event which, given your commute, is quite important.

I would keep both cars. Just parlay out some of the issues and realize that every once in a while you will have to pay a ‘price premium’ to keep them in good running order.

If push ever comes to shove, you can always sell both and move onto something else. But I see no sense in getting another ride at this point.

For right now you have two good solutions, one minor annoyance with the Saab CEL, and zero terminal problems. Keep them.

Sajeev says:

Sir, how dare you suggest that a Panther is not suitable for your needs!

You haven’t even given it a chance! But honestly, you need a less charismatic vehicle. Singular. This should be something without the charms of a SAAB or a Subie.  Panther no, but something boring from Japan or the USA.  No complex SAAB electrics, no difficult Subie labor rates…a big concern at that mileage!

So set a budget and stick to it.  Maybe $5000 for a decent Corolla, Civic, Focus, Cobalt, Malibu, Camry, Sentra, Accord, etc. Get something with better-than-subie fuel mileage and bulletproof components.

If you find it boring, drive the wife’s Baja a few times. Save your cash for a home, or maybe another weird third car that might float your boat. Or maybe a little truck with a stick.

But right now, the smart money is on you consolidating and simplifying.

 Ian writes:

My wife drives a 2007 Lincoln MKX in need of shrewd replacement. The good lady finds the Mark Ten a chore to use around DC: clumsy, hard to see from, and very thirsty for all the enjoyment she gets from it. It also lacks exactly the features that she prizes: a sunroof, and up-to-date bluetooth – iDrive – voice/nav goodies. After a 16-month test drive of this very kind gift, it’s time to trade it towards something more suitable.

To narrow the field: We prefer wagons to crossovers, but are open to persuasion on the latter category — especially if better maneuverability and fussy electronics are on tap. No hybrids, definitely open to diesel. Big fans of used/CPO vehicles, inclined to buy and hold.The budget’s around $32k total. Every idea from new Focus ST to 4-yr-old Cayenne has crossed our kitchen table, so there’s barely a box to think outside of, and here’s the trick:

The puppy’s car-trained and our first baby en route. So this is the last car we’ll buy for years where gearhead intangibles might factor in the selection process. This car also is likely to become mine in 3-5 years (replacing my 08 CPO 535xi at 99,999 miles, and staying a Long Time), so I’m willing to go an extra mile on behalf of dumb stuff like steering feel, all-day seats, real durability and such.

If you had to sell a new Beltway mom a car today, that will become your war horse in 2016, what car would it be?

Steve Says:

This is the hard part. My wife’s tastes are probably a complete 180 to the two of you. Her idea would be to buy a reasonably kept older car in the $6k to $10k range and spend the rest on travel.

I currently drive a 2005 MINI Cooper S convertible. I’ve been swapping winter/summer tires for the past few years but I was thinking that this year I might get a beater car for the harsher weather months. The combination of FWD and wear and tear on the fabric roof are my main reasons for these considerations.

I live in NJ, so most of my driving is on the highway but as part of my job as a systems admin in a datacenter, I’m occasionally called into work at times when even the highways haven’t been plowed.

Do you think it’s possible to find a cheap (around $1000), preferably AWD car that would work well for winters in the northeast? Craigslist searches so far have turned up a handful of Subarus, Volvos, and Audis Quattro.

A Former Resident Of The Garden State Says…

Yes! You can buy an AWD car in New Jersey for $1000!

Of course the car would have to be stolen or misappropriated from a government agency. Maybe both.

Then there is always the slim chance to do one of those low down payment deals and ‘negotiate’ your way through the winter months.

Something tells me that neither one of these possibilities will come true for you. Then again, I have no idea who you work for so feel free to ponder them if you like.

My real advice is two-fold…

1) Buy some top of the line protectant. TTAC isn’t in the official endorsement business. But start with this.

2) Most anything you buy these days for $1000 will require a lot of immediate maintenance… and may very well be at death’s door.

If you want to lose your savings, keep being stingy.

If you want to keep your car for the long haul, invest in it. Snow tires, protectant, and a couple of good cleanings throughout the year will  yield far greater dividends than a broken down jalopy that spews oil and sucks your savings.

You can also rent if you like. Enterprise and a few other rental car companies will pick you up. Make sure you have plenty of coupons and a friendly relationship with the counter person. Good luck!

Michael writes:

Love the website. Here is my conundrum:

My wife and I have two cars. A 2007 CR-V that I use mostly for a 75 mile round trip commute several days a week to San Francisco and a 2004 Infiniti FX35 with 52,000 miles. While the CR-V has a ton of utility, I am tired of driving it. It has quite a bit of road noise, the sound system sucks and frankly it’s kind of a female car. The plan is to keep the CR-V and let my wife drive it, and use it as our family car while we sell the Infiniti and I get something for that daily commute. The Infiniti was purchased from a friend and is in great condition, but I feel like it is a ticking time bomb and want to sell it now to take advantage of high used car prices. Plus the mpg is horrific, it doesn’t have satellite radio and the tires are still original and will need expensive replacing shortly.

We have two young boys that I will occasionally be called upon to pick up/drop off, so I need something with a decent sized back seat. I am an attorney and occasionally clients will see my car so image is somewhat important. At the same time, I can’t go overboard because my clients are not wealthy.  I definitely want a car (or wagon), and something that gets good mpg. I need it to have the latest tech offerings so that my commute is tolerable.  I looked at used but almost seems cheaper to buy at this point so I am looking to buy.  While I would love to say that fun to drive is high on the list, my commute offers little opportunity for fun driving and my busy life prevents much recreational driving, so an all around car would suit us best. We will finance the car and probably pay off in five or less years and then sell shortly thereafter. Probably will average 15k miles a year.

Audi is high on the list. We had a 2004 Audi A4 years back that we loved, although there seems to be a short supply of new A4′s in the configuration I would want due to popularity and they are not the best deal. Also concerned about reliability.  I like the looks of the Volvo S60 T5 and love the free maintenance but the backseat is just a bit small and it’s not very exciting. I test drove a TL and it has all the creature comforts and holds its value well, but my wife thinks it is hideous. 3 series is too small while 5 series more than I want to spend. New C-Class is interesting but probably too small inside. Hyundai Genesis is intriguing but it’s a Hyundai and I can’t get past the Hyundais of old. I have not driven one so can’t speak to how the car drives. I love the Jaguar XF but reliability and mpg turns me off. Lexus CT200h would be an interesting choice but the thing is tiny inside.  Budget is 30-45k.

Steve Answers:

This is the classic case of trying to kick the bucket before the bucket is full.

The Infiniti FX35 is perfectly capable of handling your needs as it stands. It has been given great reviews by an awful lot of owners. The styling is still contemporary for our time and, as ol’ Leonard McCoy would say if he dealt with Yuppies instead of Vulcans, “Good God man! You’ve only driven this thing for 52,000 miles and you want to sell it! Get a hold of yourself and buy some tires!”

That’s my advice. Your clients will not appreciate a new upscale luxury car. The commute you have is a fairly miserable one as far as enthusiast driving goes. You seem to always be pedaling on the debt treadmill… and use fuel economy as the excuse du jour to get into debt some more.

Just stop it. Really.

Don’t spend money. Don’t buy anything. Except top quality tires and perhaps a Sirius/XM upgrade if you don’t have one already.  Those two moves alone should make your commute far better than it is at the moment.

Sajeev answers:

While I agree with Steve, I also have a friend who tends to get new cars for the most trivial of reasons, including needing new tires.  No really, he has no problem with his current ride other than the fact that it needs tires. So it’s time for a new car!

I get it, even if I don’t.

My advice?  Stop buying and start leasing. Aside from the very likely (cough) tire replacements on 2-3 year leases, everything else is covered. You can buy whatever looks right for you, projects the right image to your clients, and when the “ticking time bomb” sound turns into the Edgar Allen Poe’s Tell Tale Heart…well, the lease should probably be up before that time.

My gut feeling? I’d lease something Volkswagen.  Maybe the CC, or one of their crossovers…fully loaded!  It doesn’t really matter, they all have the right image and I’m fairly certain you’ll love it for 24 months.

David writes:

Hi Sajeev,

My family of 5 (1 spouse, 2 four year olds, 1 2 year old) shares 3 cars.  A 2003 Passat Wagon, purchased used with 30,000 miles is our primary family car.  It gets good mileage (33 mpg on the highway!), fits three kids seats across the back row, and carries a ton of luggage (more than many SUV’s).  It handles reasonably well and has good driving dynamics and comfort (and a tight turning radius).  Our second car is a 1996 Honda Civic two door hatch, which gets great mileage, was purchased with 8000 miles on it, and was recently declared a rolling hazard with the head gasket ready to fail at any moment.  It gets driven 10-15 miles a week at speeds below 35 mph.  Our third vehicle serves the dual purpose of track/date car, a 1995 BMW M3 Lightweight, purchased with 60,000 miles on the clock.  These three cars have been more than adequate for our family’s needs for 5 years.  Until now.  We need something that carries 7.

Handling and fuel economy are important in our purchase of 7 seat vehicles. We prefer cars for ease of entry, efficiency, handling, and visibility out (too many vehicles and children can hide below the beltline of a SUV or van).  With automakers showing renewed interest in higher fuel economy, we expect to be able to choose from higher mpg choices in a few years.  So we want to buy used to minimize the depreciation loss of selling the vehicle in three years.  Our intention is to buy a 7 seater to replace the Civic, then a used Prius to replace the Passat, resulting in an overall significant increase in fleet fuel economy.  My first choice was a 1996 Camry Wagon with the rear facing seat (the extra two seats are for occasional use only, not normal transport).  The middle seat seatbelt was only a lap belt, so no go.  Then a Ford Taurus wagon from the early 2000′s, but again, only a lap belt in the middle seat.  I looked at Toyota Siennas, but it is difficult to find one with a middle bench (we want three in the middle seat for 5 person use to maximize luggage space), they are expensive, heavy, unwieldy, and not particularly efficient.  I have settled on the 2005-2007 Ford Freestyle, which is less expensive, more fuel efficient, has 7 seats, and would appear to deliver a more car like driving experience.  In terms of vehicle amenities, safety features and power door locks are the minimum bells and whistles we need.  Simpler is better.

Sajeev answers:

Actually a used Ford Freestar (not Freestyle) or Chrysler minivan is right up your alley.  You sound like you know your stuff, so check the condition of the transmission fluid as they are the weak point in any minivan. and actively seek out a unit with a comprehensive service record. Yeah, I know you don’t want a Minivan, but you really need it. Slap on a set of good performance rubber, more aggressive brake pads, aftermarket shocks and (maybe) swaybars and you’ll forget about their handling deficiencies. You can get all of those goodies for a 2004 Caravan. Think about it.

Okay fine, the Freestyle looks more like a car.  And it might get better mileage.  But I will not relent, I want you in a Minivan!

Steve answers:

First off.. congrats on the brood! I think the two of you are going to have your hands full for at least the next 20+ years (if not longer). So in light of that my recommendation will be to minimize your overhaul hassles.

Find what you enjoy. Period. A minivan will more than likely be the best fit. CUV’s tend to have very tight rear seats (the Freestyle/Taurus X in particular) and I’ll be blunt in saying that a Mazda 5 is simply too small for the long haul.

If you are looking at used nothing will beat the long-term costs, safety, comfort, and spaciousness of a minivan. I particularly like the short wheelbase Caravan / Town & Country Sport models from the 05 thru 07 era. But they are more utilitarian vehicles in their base form than anything else. That is no power sliding doors or built in entertainment systems. I like that. Your wife may not.

Eight seat Siennas have a lot of trouble selling. You may want to look at one of those. What else sits at the lots? Well pretty much every minivan with the exception of loaded Siennas, Odysseys, and Town & Countrys. I would skip the now defunct GM and Ford offerings due to their abysmal mileage and reliability.

The Hyundai/Kia models are fine but not particularly economical. The Quest is a weird duck as is the MPV. Odysseys are overpriced and have a multitude of issues.You can also hold off and drive two cars whenever you need to, which wouldn’t be that often,  until something truly piques your interest.

Take your time and find what you enjoy. End of story.

(courtesy: Jan London Band)

Hman writes:

Howdy,

Long time reader, first time emailer. (Except for two published Ur-Turns.) Anyway, I’m in a two-piece “rock” band and we are doing a 6-week tour in April and are shopping for a van. I’ve long been a Toyonda/Hondota fan, but alas, they make no full size cargo vans, so I’m forced to go domestic.

A prior band of mine used a Ford E250 to great effect, and I’ll admit I’m partial to the brand. Craigslist is chock full of Econolines of all trim and year. I’d like to solicit the advice of the B&B here at TTAC ASAP! I.E., years to avoid, brands to avoid, etc. All suggestions welcome.

Mr. Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist has $3-4 grand to spend, so lots of miles is expected. All told we will have three people, one drum kit w/trimmings, three vintage Fender tube amps (Hi, Jack!), two guitars, one bigass pedal board, t-shirts, cd’s, vinyl, and clothes.

This will be a coast-to-coast-and-then-some trip, so reliability is paramount.

Sajeev Answers:

Luckily this is a small(ish) band, so just about any full size, 15 passenger (i.e. long wheelbase) van should do the trick. Diesels aren’t necessary and are probably not worth the pricing and servicing premium, even with the amount of miles you’ll be driving. Having spent a lot of time behind an E-150 and a little with a Chevy Express, I’m pretty certain that the Ford is the way to go. The older GM G-series vans are just as good, maybe even better than a similar vintage Ford. But you probably can get a newer van with your budget, and I like the seating position/wheel arch design better in the Econoline versus the Express. This holds true for long periods behind the wheel, something that has been verified from a LeMons racer/HVAC tech that has experienced just about every van on the market.

Honestly, the Ford also looks better inside and out. I know some have spark plug thread problems (mostly from less-than-anal installation when installing new plugs) and transmissions are always a concern on vans of any shape and size. That said, if you find a clean Chevy for the same price as a ratty Ford, go ahead and pull the trigger. It will be condition and service records above all else.

There’s no wrong answer here, except the Freightliner/Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter. While some perform reliably and get good mileage, I’ve heard an overwhelming number of complaints about this vehicle’s difficult diagnostics, expensive parts, lack of parts, and overall poor value compared to the Ford or Chevy.

Steve Answers:

I will disagree here.

The best option for a band is a conversion van. How do I know? Those are the only young folks who ever bother to look at these glorified mastodons.

Get a 1996-1997 Chevy Conversion van with a 350 and low miles. With this generation you get the benefit of OBDII diagnostics along with a powertrain that will easily chug along for 200k+. It’s not a sin to get a small enclosed trailer should your needs expand. But if I were you guys, I would look at a few and see if they can handle all your gear. Some bands do remove the third seat for extra space. But you may want to keep that for other purposes.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Thomas writes:

Hi Steve and Sajeev,

Currently I own a 1999 Accord -2Dr V6 with about 76,000 miles. The interior looks good- the leather is in good shape I’m still quite happy with the stereo system I installed in it years ago. However, the exterior is a different story. 9 years of Arizona (un-garaged) sun has not been kind to it. The paint is looking *rough*. Peeling clear coat on almost all the horizontal surfaces. I won’t mention the hack paint job I did on the trunk lid with my Harbor Freight air compressor and E-bay spray gun in my shed. It’s also sporting a tweaked front bumper/light/hood from a tiny fender bender 11 years of parking lot door dings. So it’s UGLY. The Accord has its 75k mile service is coming up, $200 SRS light is on, $800 timing belts have yet to be replaced, and the rubber bits are falling apart (latest is a cracked $300 Shock boot).

In the other corner, the object of my desire: 2003 Infiniti M45 88k miles 4.5l V8 $10k

Family future-proof with 4 doors, fast and classy. I’ve always loved that body style. I figure the difference in premium gas and my commute would hit me for about $400-500 a year (not a deal-breaker) According to the VIN the dealer picked this up for about 7k, I’m guessing I could nab it for 8000-8500 and grab 4k on the trade-in. Thoughts??

Steve answers:

You’re dreaming. Seven to ten-year old Japanese luxury cars are a hotbed for ‘wanna-be’s’.

What is a wanna-be? It’s the fellow who wants to have an awesome luxury car… in their own mind. But they can’t really afford one. So they end up financing a car with a fancy name that has anywhere between 80k and 120k.

There are a LOT of wanna-be’s who will finance their ride these days. Not too surprisingly there are a LOT of parties that make money off the wanna-be.

The dealer will sell the vehicle to a finance company for anywhere from 65 to 75 cents on the dollar. What that means is that if the dealer hooks this up as a $9k finance deal, the deal will likely net another $6k to $7k in interest, fees, and other bogus related charges. Let’s say that about $15,000 would need to be paid on the Infiniti over the course of the note.

About 70% of that amount will go back to the dealer once the finance company picks up the note. $10,500 is the dealer’s revenue. Throw in a $350 auction fee and $800 in additional expenses, and the Infiniti would yield them around $2,000.

However if you pay them 8k cash, guess what? They have no profit. Everyone assumes that the auction price is how much a dealer has in a vehicle. In most cases, it’s not true. Auction fees, repairs, detail work, floorplan fees, advertising costs, it all adds up to a lot of expenses beyond the initial auction purchase.price.

So should you buy the Infiniti? No. Not unless you’re willing to pay a bit more for it. I would spend $3,000 on your current ride and get everything right on it. Paint, body, maintenance…bring it all back to day one. Drive it for 5 years. Then get a new car for cash or get a real nice late model car that comes with a CPO warranty.

Good luck!

Sajeev answers:

Well, as the LeMons people always like to say, “what could possibly go wrong?”

If you want an executive express on the cheap, the Infiniti M isn’t a bad choice. Especially if you like the body style. The only problem is that it is an orphan car with a very unique collection of trim bits, so if you break something, happy hunting in the junkyards! Of course, given the condition of your Accord, it sounds like I’m preaching to the choir.

I’m having a hard time discouraging you from this fairly stupid plan of yours, and not because I have a soft spot for the original M: I’d rather spend a couple grand more for a Lexus GS400.

Or a punch in the throat. Either way, good luck with that.

William writes:

My wife is currently in the market for a new car. Our current garage consists of her 2008 Ford Explorer XLT Ironman Edition V8 that gets a dismal 16 MPG in mixed driving, and my beloved 2010 G37S 6MT that I love in every way, and gets a decent 22 MPG in mixed driving when I’m not laying into the throttle. The Explorer is paid for, and while I mentioned selling it to buy whatever she wants, she’s having none of it, as we do tow with it every now and then and she has an attachment to Explorers. This is her second Ex, RIP 2002 Explorer @ 210k miles. Currently we’re looking at a few cars. She needs room, so a hatch is preferred.

Mini Cooper S Countryman
Lexus CT200h
Toyota Prius

Any suggestions? Price isn’t an issue and we plan to keep it for a while. Many Thanks. Bryant S

P.S. No, we don’t want a Panther :)

Sajeev Answers:

Correction: you don’t think you want a Panther.

That said, I would get something that adds a little more depth to your collection. The G’s got the sporty side covered. The Explorer is obviously a decent truck. The Countryman is a nice fashion statement of modest utility and long-term value, so go ahead and peep the FIAT 500 too. The CT and Prius are great ideas for an efficient runabout, but also consider cheaper and somewhat less efficient modes of transport: Mazda 3, Ford Focus SEL (or Titanium, if you don’t care about resale) or even the cute Honda Fit. It’s time to plant your butts in a whole lotta bucket seats to get your short list!

And seriously, also plant ‘em in a bench seat too. (childish giggling)

Steve answers:

Are you kiddin’ Sajeev? (Maybe. – SM) She seems to be one of those sensible people. What would she ever see in a Panther?

Truth be told I have no idea what she wants. If I knew what women wanted I would be running Lifetime television…into the ground.

So go drive an Audi A3. Drive the 1-Series. Drive a 3. Drive the Fiat. Drive a Fiesta. Drive Priuses/Prii and Lexus vehicles that are only identifiable by their serial numbers. I wouldn’t discount coupes, sedans, or even wagons from the list just yet either. Hatches tend to carry stiff price premiums compared to most other vehicles because in part, they attract a younger (at heart) clientele. What you need to do is find that one vehicle that truly offers the best bang for the buck.

Once you find it, don’t tell her. Surprise her. Really.

Let her first find something she loves. Then, just when she’s about to pull the trigger, give her a book called ‘The Tightwad Gazette’. It’s known as the modern-day Bible of frugality. Tell her to read it from page 1 to the index, with special attention given to how to make puppets out of socks, pantyhose, and old dog chew toys.

Let her take all this new information in, she’ll need a moment. Then explain to her kindly, but firmly, that a 2000 Plymouth Grand Voyager with roll-up windows would truly be her ideal ride. Minivans are still unpopular, thanks to (insert politician’s name here), and the name Plymouth has been out of circulation for over 10 years, wish I could say the same thing for (insert another politician’s name here)! The glow of red around her face will be one of pure adoration for a husband that realizes the value of the dollar.

Trust me. I know that glow from personal experience.

Enjoy it. Wear a cup.

Sajeev retorts:

Wait…exactly how is getting kneed in the crotch from a Plymouth minivan any better than an honest shot at Panther Love?

Off to you, Best and Brightest.

Steven writes:

Sajeev and Steve,

I have a 2001 Volvo XC wagon, that has about 175 k on it, the car is in pretty good shape, had the tranny replaced before I got it, I have put about 4k in since Jan, the real problem is it gets about 22 MPG with 90% highway, all wheel drive and Turbo=bad gas mileage, I drive about 40,000 miles a year and betwen the gas and the upkeep I am getting killed, hence time for a new car.

This is what I want, good to great on gas,auto, 4dr or wagon  safe and comfy on the road, no suv, no RWD,( drive from NY to Boston year round, I am in sales so it needs to be somewhat presentable.  No americian cars, sorry no faith that they will hold up in the long run, and need some soul (hence no Camry) since I live in the car, budget anywhere from 15k to 30 k, I would perfer used but with prices this high not sure if it makes sense, I like Saabs, Audi,Acura, had a bunch of Accords but not since 2006. Lately have been very tempted by a 2011 VW Jetta TDI, great MPG but VW does not have a great rep. It seems VW TDI hold their value very well so that is why I am considering a 2011, love Saabs bc they do not hold their value so a great used buy ( had 2 in the past) I need some quick help from you and the board, before the volvo needs another $1500 in repairs/ maintance. thanks

Sajeev answers:

I’d definitely gravitate to a new vehicle, given your budget, career and high prices of lightly used vehicles. Which pushes me (you) to the mainstream sedans that you might hate. You need to test drive a bunch of them to see what really speaks to you: important for someone in your line of work.

Okay, so no Camry, but you should at least drive the SE model. Ditto any Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu: I know, I know! The Accord is also worth a look, but I am gonna recommend two sweethearts in this class: the Hyundai Sonata (SE or Limited) and the Mazda 6. Both are rather cool for their class, and the Hyundai has a great warranty (with roadside assistance) for a road warrior.

Steve answers:

I wouldn’t throw out the Camry with the bathwater just yet. Last Tuesday I test drove all the new Camrys and found the Hybrid model to be the absolute embodiment of everything you likely want. Plenty of power and comfort. Exceptional fuel economy (43 city, 39 highway). Surprisingly tight handling and ‘healthy’ road feel in what is supposedly a traditional conservative car.

I would put that model near the top regardless of the bulbous marshmallow nature of the outgoing generation.

The rest of the results are pretty much in line with what Sajeev suggests. On the new side there is the Fusion, Sonata, 6, and Altima. On the used side it depends on whether you’re willing to consider any unpopular cars. Yes, SAABs are cheap now. So is the Infiniti G25 which is one of many near luxury sedans that fall through the cracks due mostly to ‘spec junkies’ wanting the more powerful model.

If you’re willing to consider a 1 to 2 year old CPO car that offers a fantastic warranty, I would opt for a step up. The C-Class, Audi A4, and Infiniti G25 would be on my list as well. Although to be frank, I would likely just go with the new Camry Hybrid if I had to drive all those miles in the pothole marred northeast. Good luck!

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Intrigued?

Evan writes:

Hi Sajeev and Steve,

I’m looking to find a safe car in the $5 to $7k area to serve as a teenager’s first vehicle. My wife and I want to make sure the kids are safe. We have 4 children, so we’re looking for 4 doors. The kids will be paying for the gas, so we’re probably looking for a 4-cylinder sedan for the mileage…plus, we hope that an 8 to 11 second 0-60 time will slightly discourage hoonery (though it didn’t when I was 16). Trouble is, used car values are so high right now that not many cars seem to fit the bill. Where is the “best” safety and reliability trade-off between the cars that hold value well (accord, civic, camry, corolla) and those that are newer/ lower mileage? Can you, Steve, and the B&B help?

Thanks,
Evan

Steve Answers:

When it comes to the $5k to $7k range it’s not the car that’s truly important, it’s the prior owner.

There are Camrys and Accords that are as wore out as an old mop. Along with thousands of ‘unpopular cars’ that have been diligently maintained and well kept.

Your goal should be to find a reliable and safe car that is at least a midsize. Brand doesn’t matter so much. Yes there are specific models that are stinkers (any Chrysler with a 2.7L for instance). But if you go to owner review sites that have qualitative feedback such as Carsurvey and Edmunds, you should be able to thresh them out of the mix pretty quick.

I would start with family, friends and work. Find out if anyone has a good candidate and then apply the process that I outlined in my car buying series at TTAC. When it comes to car buying you need to rely on experts because a lot of expensive issues an be well hidden. Get the vehicle independently inspected and consider even going to an enthusiast site to find out what potential issues may be down the road once the vehicle checks out.

This is one of those times in life where investing in a professional and doing diligent research will likely pay off in ways far beyond ‘money’. If you invest in ‘the process’ and the people, your return will pay off in the long run. Be patient and enjoy doing something good for your kid.

Sajeev Answers:

I will default to Steve Lang when it comes to cheap family sedan analysis, he knows the market better than anybody. My only word of caution is to avoid the “hot” brands in this economy, I don’t believe the value proposition is strong enough. In your budget, I rather like the Nissan Altima for comfort and economy. But I would encourage you to forget about fuel economy for a moment, and look at any GM W-body product (my fav is the Oldsmobile Intrigue), something truly despicable like a Chrysler Sebring, or an old body style Vulcan V6 Taurus/Sable…cuz those Duratec V6s are too damn fast for kids!

Most teenagers don’t fall in love with their first car, unless they got lucky and had a (vintage) 1965 Ford Galaxie hardtop as their first whip. I still miss that car. Your kid shouldn’t wind up like me, and minimize your cash outlay right from the start. I’m likin’ me some Olds Intrigue right now…the kids might actually appreciate it too!

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

(www.americanfamily.com)

Sokhom writes:

Sajeev and Steve,

I’m almost done with my tour here in Korea and it’s time to return to “America-land.”  That means it’s car shoppin’ time!  So if you’ll remember, I still have my S2000 that my father-in-law’s taken care of but I don’t want to use it as a DD.  And my wife wants a car of her own as well.  We’re going to Ft. Huachuca, AZ and lots of road trips to TN and other lands are in our future.  I want a spacious (read: wagon and AT) highway cruiser for the wife and something cheap and cheerful (read: MT) that I won’t mind baking in the AZ sun.

So here’s the ROE (rules of engagement):
Wife’s car: $30K-$40K, wagon-y, AT, luxo-ish
My DD: $10K max, MT, beater-ish

Sajeev answers:

The definition of “Cheap + Cheerful” is way too subjective, but my interpretation for a Honda S2000 owner is something pure: crank windows, boring styling, totally forgettable yet fun to thrash because its so slow and nearly impossible to drive fast enough to raise an eyebrow.  So it comes down to availability in your area: Focus sedan, Versa, Elantra, Sentra or any non-Toyonda with its unnecessarily high resale value and brand recognition.  You don’t need a good car for normal people, you just need a good car!

As for the wifey, you gotta do it right and proper.  You can’t be rolling around in your shitbox, hate it, switch to the S2000 and make her jealous!  In the spirit of marital bliss, I’d recommend a TSX sport Wagon, used 3-series or A4 Avant with the mandatory CPO warranty or a handful of crossovers that just have the stuff you don’t find else where: panoramic roofs, amazing ICE, gigantic chrome wheels, nutzo styling, etc.  Then check out a slightly used Lincoln MKX, Infiniti FX, Mercedes ML (CPO only), BMW X5 (CPO only), or maybe a Northstar-powered Cadillac SRX.

Since you are a “regular” I think I know you very well (and your wife too, natch) I’ll demand you buy these two cars:  a shift-it-yourself Versa with no options and an Acura TSX Wagon.

Steve answers:
“Wife’s car: $30K-$40K, wagon-y, AT, luxo-ish”

The Honda Odyssey would be at the very front of that list. If you are going to do very long road trips nothing beats the space and comfort of a minivan. You should also consider a Chrysler Town & Country. They now have excellent handling (see Jack Baruth’s recent review here) and are every bit as luxurious as the Odyssey when fully optioned out.

My DD: $10K max, MT, beater-ish ‘cheap and cheerful’

I would test drive a long list of Honda, Subaru,  Mitsubishi, Ford (the rare 1st gen Fusion comes to mind), Scion Xb, and any other model with a manual transmission that strikes your fancy. I like the Xb if you are going to do a lot of in-town driving. Highway driving would encourage a midsized sedan like the Fusion with a 4-banger.

Good luck!

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Pete writes:

Hi guys,

I’ve got a tough set of requirements for you. I’ve been driving a 1996 Honda Civic Si for many years and it’s time to retire the old girl.

I live in Denver and I love to play in the mountains. I ski, backpack and rock climb, so I need a vehicle that can handle icy I-70 and rough forest service roads (need some ground clearance). I don’t need a large vehicle and I’d like to get at least 25 mpg highway. But I also really enjoy going quickly through the twisty bits, so handling is important too!

I’ve been considering the Kia Sportage SX, although the fuel economy in the AWD model isn’t great and I’ve read the Sportage steering leaves a lot to be desired. Still, the new 2 liter engine sounds fun. I’m mostly looking in the $25-30k range. For something really nice I could probably go up to $35k.

I feel like there must be some other options out there, but I haven’t had much luck finding anything!

Steve Answers:

On the new side the Subaru Forester is a definite consideration. The current RAV4, CR-V and Tucson have always struck me as a bit too ‘family’ focused and I’m still not a fan of the Kia Sportage.

I’m glad that you’re willing to invest $25k to $30k on your next ride. But you may want to take a look at some unique packages that were available in older models. Specifically those that offered a 5-speed with a well-matched 4-cylinder engine.

Back in 2005 I managed to get a four year old Ford Escape for my brother in law that had that rare 5-speed and 4 cylinder combination. He found a pristine leather interior on Craigslist for a couple hundred bucks and has since driven it over 100k with nary a hiccup. The older Foresters and RAV-4′s also have far better sporting pretensions than their current bloated ilk.

Most folks will get the new, the automatic, and the bloat. My advice is to go off the beaten path and find a ride that will truly endure. One that you never will want to sell.

Sajeev Answers:

From the information given–especially the ground clearance and active lifestyle part–I see you liking a simple, easy to use and cheap to maintain CUV with a V6 and their (basic) AWD systems. Or maybe a Subie Forester, does that actually qualify as a CUV? It should in this case.

There are a few CUVs that I enjoy driving in the twisties, but I haven’t driven ‘em all.  I’d take a run in the Subie, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV-4, Hyundai Tucson and (yes, really) the perennial big box Ford Escape.  The Nissan Juke is an interesting candidate, but I have reservations to its utility.  Everything from the B-pillar back is just a swoopy, sleek joke.

Oh, definitely sell the Si on Craigslist. You’ll easily find a sport compact enthusiast who would love to keep the flame and pay top dollar for it, if you have the service records to go with it.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Terrance writes:

I will be moving to Poland with my wife and baby son in July. We will need a car, and trying to calculate value is tough for me, knowing very little about the Polish market.

I don’t know how much we intend on driving, but probably the occasional couple hundred mile trip on the weekend. I would like to keep my purchase price below 5,000 dollars and have something that is easy to fix where I can maybe take it to the guy down the street who operates out of his house’s garage, and not be too afraid of the guy not being able to get parts, not having too many special tools, etc.

The other aspect of European cars is the use of natural gas. It looks like “lpg” is big in Poland as many of the cars I checked out on allegro.pl have the natural gas option. Does this add to the complexity of maintenance? Will this provide more value per mile than a diesel engine?

The car has to be relatively safe, and a wagon with the room would fit our style as a growing family. There seem to be a lot of 10+ year old German cars that can be had pretty cheaply (allegro.pl). So far I like the Mercedes and BMW wagons from the early nineties. But something tells me that a 5 year old Honda Jazz would be a much smarter choice even if it might cost more upfront.

Sajeev Answers:

Unfortunately, aside from American land yacht fetishes of a few Polish citizens , my knowledge of that market is next to nothing. But that’s never stopped me before, so why start now?

As an expert in all things cars with a deep sense of cultural sensitivity to all automotive markets, I recommend you import some buy something similar to Panther Love.  Need a wagon?  Find the most common platform on the market and buy that wagon offshoot.  If this was the late 1990s, I’d recommend a Ford Sierra wagon because of its historical success across most of Europe, its built-in mechanical simplicity/durability and its RWD design for some potential fun.

Obviously the Sierra is too old, so look at the Sierra’s modern counterparts: Ford, Opel, Renault, VW, Peugeot sedans that are also wagons.  What’s the most common platform on the streets? What is the easiest to service if mechanical complications lead to communication failure between a Polish mechanic and a frustrated Ex-Pat.

Steve answers:

Poland for all intents and purposes should be like any other country in the EU. Though I understand that there is some rather fast driving of near new cars from Germany to Poland for some reason.

David writes:

Hi Sajeev and Steve,

I’d like your take on a replacement form my 2003 Honda Accord coupe. It has a 4 cylinder and a 5 speed and has been a pretty good car.  But I miss rear wheel drive.  In my younger days, I’ll be 60 next year, I had a Porsche 912, a Cortina GT, various Volvos and VWs before I ended up with pick up trucks before the current Honda.

I like the Honda, I just wish it was a bit lighter and rear wheel drive.  What are my options these days for a RWD car that doesn’t break the bank, gets decent fuel mileage and is dependable?    I’ve been thinking a used Miata or S2000, but would prefer a coupe.  I’m not really into BMW’s for various reasons.  What do you two think?

As a replacement for the Honda I’d spend $15,000 to $25,000.

Steve Answers:

In North America rear wheel drive only sells if it has a truck or European bent.  However when you consider all-wheel-drive into the equation the entire world becomes your oyster. Except you happen to want… two doors?

Sajeev Answers:

David, its pretty tough to beat a Mazda Miata for your price range and requirements.  If it doesn’t come with the hard top, buy one separately.  Maybe you’ll be smitten by the added Honda interior refinement (in my opinion) of the S2000, and that higher power, high revving motor is certainly a sweetheart. Maybe the added punch of a Solstice/Sky with the turbo mill and a little extra bulk?

Funny thing is, I went to both the Pontiac and Saturn websites just to see if they still existed.  And they do! When you select the Sky, there’s a frame on the webpage that suggests you should also look at a (C5?) Corvette. And maybe you should: stupid amazing highway fuel economy with a stick, insane power and performance that simply can’t be matched by smaller roadsters.  Not that I expect you to divert from a Miata, but maybe the Internet knows better.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Christian writes:

Hey Sajeev and Steve,

So my girlfriend is in the process of getting a new car. We’re graduating college in May and she was lucky enough to have her Mom offer to buy her a car as a graduation present. Thats pretty much perfect timing because her 1996 Jeep Cherokee Country is on its last legs. She loves her Jeep but it has almost 300,000 miles on it and it hasn’t been the most reliable thing in the world over the past year

Originally, this whole process was supposed to be pretty easy. Her Mom offered to buy her a car worth up to $8000, and loving Jeeps she pretty much had her heart set on a TJ Wrangler, which (correct me if I’m wrong) would probably be pushing her budget.

However, her Mom has now said that she’d be willing to take on a car payment of no more then $300 a month and so my girlfriend is now torn on getting a pretty-much base new automatic Mini Cooper, (rather then a Cooper S which is what she really wants) and an older Wrangler.

That all being said, would there be anything you’d recommend over the base Mini Cooper or a used TJ Wrangler in her price range thats cool but a little girly at the same time? She’s got no need for AWD and living in Northern California means she’ll probably be spending a lot of time on the highways. The only other cars she’s really thought about is a VW New Beetle (her best friend has one so thats out) and a Mustang Convertible (I drive a GT Coupe though so thats out too.)

Steve Answers:

You need to get off the fashionista circuit.

Animal...housed?

Brenden writes:

Sajeev and Steve,

My buddy is in college and needs a used set of wheels.  After 2 years of depending upon Baltimore’s awful public transportation system and the generosity of friends, roommates, frat brothers, and total strangers for car rides, his school work is starting to suffer and he’s decided to buy a car.  Unfortunately, his budget is about $2000.  His living situation and total lack of mechanical skills rule out anything German, Swedish, or otherwise maintenance intensive.

His criteria for the car are reliable/durable, fuel efficient, and cheap to run.  Working AC and heat would be a bonus, but he really only intends to drive the car about 15-20 minutes per day for school.  He has absolutely no pretensions about the car’s badge, perceived coolness, sporty driving dynamics, etc., but he probably won’t spring for a total crapcan like a metro or echo. Also, he’s currently unemployed, and I don’t think he intends to find a job due to his course load.

His prior cars have all been automatic Volvos, but he’s driven drunken frat brothers’ manual-equipped cars before, and he’s willing to drive a stick on a daily basis.  Any kind of repairs on a high mileage automatic would probably bankrupt him.  Personally I would never advise anyone to buy a high mileage automatic; I’d feel like I was telling them to buy a ticking time bomb.

My first advice for him was to budget at least $1000 for future repairs, maintenance, taxes, registration and insurance out of his original $2k. What are your recommendations/advice for finding a sub $1000 set of wheels that won’t kill my buddy with repair bills?

Here’s what I’ve come up with:

• Saturn S cars – as long as he avoids the DOHC motors, which I’ve heard require head gasket replacements every 70k or so.
• Geo/Chevy Prizm – it’s basically a toyota with heavier depreciation, and I haven’t heard of any ‘known’ issues with these cars.
• Corolla/camry/Civic/Prelude/Accord – again, do you know of any issues with these cars for the 90′s models?  I checked Craigslist and autotrader and couldn’t find any examples of these within the $1000 price range.
• Neon – I’ve heard that except for the last few model years, the Neons had head gasket issues, so I’m inclined to tell my buddy to avoid these.
• Focus – no clue on these
• Contour – Mondeo FTW!  Obviously, the I-4 motor.
• Cavalier – again, no idea whether these had common problems

So, what advice can you offer regarding vehicle selection?  Buying from a dealership would be ideal, since it would be easier to take the car to his family mechanic for a pre-purchase checkup, but I think we’re going to end up on Craigslist and at auctions.  Assuming we can’t get any of our mechanically inclined buddies to show up, what checks can I reasonably perform on the cars to weed out total dogs?  Offhand, I know to check oil levels and check for oil frothiness/discoloration, check transmission and hydraulic fluids, coolant levels and colors, belts and chains, and to do things like run the AC, wipers, etc.

Steve answers:

I would avoid the dealership like a harsh case of psoriasis. You need to go to the private owner. As for the sub-$2000 car in this economy you should look for…

1. No A/C: This automatically knocks off $500 to $1000 off the price
2. The EXTRA car: Folks who already have one more car than they need will sell the leftover ride for cheap. I was able to buy a 10 year old Camry for $500 back in the days when I was getting started. Don’t bet on that happening in today’s times.
3. Older folks: Owners who are middle-aged and beyond tend to be less abusive than younger folks. Feel free to visit some of the retirement communities in your area and you’ll see exactly what I mean. 4) Gas Guzzlers: Although any vehicle in good condition will do, your friend may actually come out ahead by buying an older vehicle that drinks gas but requires minimal maintenance.

The brand name is completely unimportant at this price point. What is important is that once your friend finds what will work, it is immediately taken to an independent mechanic for an inspection.

Once he buys the car he will want to bring the car back into ‘day one’ condition with it’s fluids. I would buy a Mityvac and replace all the fluids as soon as possible. $80 for a manual pumping Mityvac and about $50 in fluid and filters should be more than enough if his friends are willing to help him out. If not then let the mechanic do the work.

Right now your friends only concern should be to get good grades, great work experience, and a pathway to a good job. Don’t worry about the ‘type’ of car. Just by something that has been well kept and keep focused on the work and grades.

Sajeev answers:

Both your and Steve’s assessment are correct. Quite honestly, you will buy the first vehicle on Craigslist with a smattering of service records and a sub $1000 asking price.  And yes, anything European is entirely out of the question, but automatic transmissions are a hit or miss at this price point.  I would not rule them out, especially if you stick with slushboxes made by GM or the major Japanese brands.

From there I can only guess: any GM sedan, a non-Z car Nissan, or some other non-Honda and non-Toyota from Japan (i.e. resale value) is a good idea. In theory.  Or maybe an ex-cop car Panther, in reality.  Because, why the hell not?

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder. In a rush? Don’t be shy about asking to cut in line.

Joana writes:

I am sure you get this all of the time…my apologies in advance. I am replacing my VW Passat 2003 GLS. It was fun to drive, but had its issues as we all know. No sludge thank goodness. Several leaks! I would like a car that is comparable in drivability, (I have a manual but will buy an auto this time), but better in reliability, and perhaps greener. Tell me what to buy please! I have read the reviews, but they are all over the place….I wish you had a favorites list! Thank you.

Sajeev answers:

Telling you what to buy is never a good idea, recommendations followed by ample amounts of test driving is the only way to go. Any of the following cars will be more durable/reliable and cheaper to fix than your current ride, so no worries there. And probably my favorite “sleeper” for a displaced Passat nut is the Toyota Camry SE, it’s quite a well sorted sedan in a place you’d never expect. Obviously the V6 is the best for acceleration but not for fuel economy, and no love for the LE or XLE’s suspension tuning.

The Mazda 6 is another perennial favorite ’round these parts, and its not impossible to have fun in a Ford Fusion “Sport” or maybe even the Nissan Altima. But, at the end of the day, the first car I’d drive for a Passat replacement would be a Sonata: SE Turbo, in this case. Aside from the sweet performance, stellar warranty and decent price, the Turbo SE Sonata has something very VW about it: arguably the best interior appointments in its class and maybe the most impressive style for any family sedan. And it could be Fahrvergnügen incarnate!

Steve answers:

Sajeev pretty much nailed it.

I will add that a well chosen set of tires can go a long way towards making this ride a keeper. I’ve had some plebian rides in my younger days (1990 Geo Prizm anyone?) that all of a sudden felt that much more crisp and sporty thanks to investing in top of the line tires. Most tires from the factory wear out in about 20k to 30k. So you may want to keep an eye out for what other owners of your model do to make their ride more of a driver’s car.

The Hyundai SE Turbo is a top consideration. I’m not much for the Mercedes-esque cocoon like design. But it is definitely a strong value in the midsized market. The Camry SE is a bit too large and stale for my tastes. The Mazda 6 is kinda caught in your cross hairs and the Subaru Legacy is another entry that fits the bill of a ‘sporty’ midsized vehicle. We can throw in the Fusion SE into this mix as well. All of these vehicles will make you happy.

You’re pretty much buying an ‘interior’ and ‘driving feel’ in this segment. The best? More than likely it’s the Sonata Turbo. Good luck!

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Steve writes:

My 24 yr old daughter had been living on her own and driving an ’01 2 door Accord she’d totaled and had repaired. Not a safe car (air bags not replaced), but her choice– until she had the world’s most beautiful baby, our first and
only granddaughter.

We are not poor, and our granddaughter’s safety was at stake, so 18 months ago we bought her a new ’09 Elantra. Our reasons were it had a 100k warranty and modern safety systems.

Last week she totaled it. Nobody hurt, thankfully. She’s getting $12k+ for the wrecked car. We’re not particularly inclined to get her yet another new car, as you might imagine. But, there’s the world’s most beautiful toddler to consider. She says she wants something bigger and has been looking at Accords, but in her price range they’re much older and I presume less safe. Actually, she wants a small CUV, but with her driving I’m even less inclined to support that.

I’ve been thinking another Elantra in the ’08 range or perhaps a bit newer as we can kick in some money if we have to. Or should we buy something even newer? I don’t see much improvement in terms of safety in the past two years, but new does mean a meaningful warranty.

Any suggested used cars no smaller than an Elantra with up to date safety systems and reasonable reliability?(although given her driving, reliability might not be that important!)

Steve answers:

Consider yourself great parents with ‘extraordinary’ patience for a daughter in transition.

• Honda Civic 2009 4-door models with optional electronic stability control
• Mitsubishi Lancer 2009 models with optional electronic stability control
• Scion xB
• Subaru Impreza with optional electronic stability control
• Volkswagen Rabbit 2009 4-door models

No matter what, all late model cars are remarkably safe.  They are packed with airbags and sport months of chassis R&D in simulated and real crash tests.  The price is a little tight for new and clean Camrys, Accords and what not, I’d recommend a little tough love: a ex-fleet Chevy Impala or perhaps the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus/Montego/Sable.

Few people (cough, Zackman) go out of their way to recommend these fleet worthy machines, but the price is right and respect for the Laws of Physics is present, accounted for.  And if your daughter complains about these choices, remind her to spend less time worrying about her choice of vehicle and more on  her daughter’s well being. Good luck to you.

TTAC commentator siggy writes:

Hello Sajeev and Steve,

I’m a big fan of TTAC’s Piston Slap column and I hope you can help me with a good recommendation. Currently, I have one car, a 1984 Mustang SVO.  It has about 75k miles, and I’ve given it numerous upgrades.  I love it, but it doesn’t have a heater or A/C, and the mileage is crap.  On long freeway drives, I can get up to 25mpg, but the reality is my commute to work is 10 miles, and it’s all stop and go, sometimes bumper-to-bumper traffic.  So I end up with about 15mpg.  But, like I said, I love the car, so I will not be getting rid of it in the foreseeable future.

With gas at almost $4, and the way the SVO chugs the premium juice, I think it’s time to get a proper commuter.  Not having A/C in the summer is a serious problem here in Orange County, so with spring and summer around the corner, I need to act on this now.  Time for a beater!

Here’s a breakdown of requirements:

1. I can only spend a max of about $2500.
2. Smaller is better.  Ideally, something that can return at least 25 MPG City.  (30+ MPG highway).  Probably FWD.
3. Easy to work on and easy to find parts for.  One thing I like about my Fox Mustang is how easy it is to work on, with its huge engine bay and tiny 4 cyl. Engine.
4. I’d prefer a manual.  This is not a dealbreaker though.  The main reason I prefer a manual is because they are way more reliable.  My old ’96 T-bird’s auto started to slip at around 150k miles, and my girlfriend’s ’02 Accord Auto, with 120k miles, slips worse than my Mustang’s tires in the rain.  The added MPG and fun factor of a manual is nice, too.
5. Because of #3, only American and Japanese brands.
6. Not really a big deal, but R134 A/C and OBDII would be a plus.

Let me know what you think.  I look forward to hearing back and/or seeing my name up on TTAC.

Sajeev answers:

SVO? SVO! You mean I get to talk Fox Bodies for a moment?  Just kidding…

You have an SVO Mustang and are familiar with MN-12 body Thunderbirds.  That combination is disturbingly close to my restomod(?) Fox Mercury Cougar and daily driver Lincoln Mark VIII.  The Fox and MN-12 love within you is strong: you should embrace that.  Be one with your love, let the passion fly like the turbocharged SVO wind, soaring on the wings of a thunderous Thunderbird!

You might be nuts to not get another MN-12 Tbird. Get a V6 if you want mileage improvements at part throttle, head gasket condition be damned.  $1500 gets a disturbingly nice MN-12, they are really that terrible on the used car market.  And they are a rather brilliant (if flawed) platform even in stock form. I personally think the MN-12 deserved a second chance, a significant re-think: it coulda replaced both the Panther and spared us the disappointment of the Five Hundred, Flex, Taurus, Montego, Freestyle, etc.

Of course I am only partially kidding…

You need an older, 2.3 or 2.5L Ranger with a stick: 25mpg, fun, cheap and you already know the motor from your SVO, inside and out.  Find one in that price range with some service records, new parts and an honest private seller on craigslist. I know you. You are me.  And a Ranger is precisely what I’d want if I were in your shoes.

Steve answers:

I would not fall head over heels over any particular car.

At the price range you are looking at, it will be the prior owners who will determine the long-term reliability of your ride. It also will be pretty damn hard to find a good one… for now.

My advice is to try to seek anything that has a well-known bulletproof drivetrain. The Ford platforms Sajeev mentions tend to be that way. But so are a long slew of various domestic and foreign models.

If you do orientate over a given type of car then Ebay would be a good bet. Go to the ‘completed items’ section and see how much things are selling for these days. If the seller has 100% positive Ebay feedback (like yours truly) then the odds will definitely be with you.

Research the histories, get it inspected no matter what, and good luck.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Chris writes:

Hi, love the site. I want a play car, but my wife and I have to agree on the purchase.

First, the details on our current situation. My wife drives a 2001 Suburban with 120,000 miles on it. I’m driving a 96 Cherokee 4wd with a 5-speed and 90k on the meter. We’re both happy with our daily drivers.

What I’d like to have is a car with, say, 50-75k miles on it, maybe built in the mid-2000′s, that we could take on trips. Perhaps something less thirsty for $4/gallon gas than the other two vehicles. And I’d like to stay in the $7,000 to $12,000 range, with a preference for the lower end.

I’ve got it narrowed down to a few contenders:

Lincoln LS V8 – wish I could get it in a manual.
Honda Civic SI sedan – might be too pricey.
Mazda Miata – I’ve had one, loved it, miss it terribly. But wife would prefer a car that seats 4.
Mazda3
Mazda6

I don’t do my own work on cars, so reliability and cost of maintenance is a big issue. I prefer a manual, wife prefers auto, but that might not be a deal-breaker either way. The main thing is that I want a car that’s fun to drive. She likes ’05 Mustangs too, by the way.

I’m not saying I’ll get what you guys recommend…but I just might. Thanks!

Steve Answers:

All of those cars you mentioned should be perfectly fine. The LS is a great touring car and the powertrain with the V8 is definitely one of the nicer ones of the past decade. The Mazda’s are perfectly fine as is the Honda. Though that may ride a bit rougher than you may appreciate.

Are you ready for my advice? Wait it out. Used car prices are through the proverbial roof right now thanks to a confluence of factors. Low levels of retail sales over the last few years have been paired with fewer trade-in’s. Dealer consolidations have severely limited competition for late model vehicles. Buy here-pay-here lots are now dominant forces at the dealer auctions along with the price premiums they seek for the common ‘credit’ challenged customer.

All of this means that your money won’t go very far at the moment.

Let me show you a brief example of what I’m talking about.

Make/Model/April 2007/April 2011/Net Change

Toyota 4Runner $13,000 $20,500 $7,500
Ford Explorer $ 7,100 $14,200 $7,100
Toyota Prius $ 11,600 $ 17,300 $5,700
Honda Civic $ 8,700 $12,200 $4,500

* Data courtesy of Kelly Blue Book. Chart compares three year old vehicles from each period.

What this data doesn’t tell you is that prices of used cars are up nearly 20% since January. This is also the first time in history where values of cars have not gone down after tax season. In over a decade in this business I have never seen supply as dry and expensive as it is right now.

If it were me, I would wait until October and the first half of November and revisit the car buying decision. By then you will have dealers and individuals who will be off-loading their vehicles for far cheaper prices since there are no ‘spending’ holidays. No bonuses, and no tax money to inflate the price of your next ride. The quality of the offerings should be far better as well.

Anything you listed for your next ride should be fine. Make sure both of you drive it first… and then wait. Let the current bubble deflate a bit.

Sajeev Answers:

Your wife likes 2005+ Mustangs? I think you just found your answer. While I am far from a late model, overweight Mustang cheerleader (Fox Body ‘fo life, SON!) they certainly have the right hardware. It only needs a few cheap tweaks to hit the sweet spot. A Mustang GT with more aggressive rubber, uprated dampers + sway bars and an SCT tune is stupid fun. On the cheap. And they are fairly reliable, even if I see many with anywhere from 1-4 shorted out taillights. They are in your budget, just try to find one with the premium package and the stitched dash top: it makes Ford’s interior bean counting far less revolting.

Keep the wife happy this time, you won’t regret it. And if you do, getting a Miata and a divorce isn’t the worst thing to happen to a dude. Probably.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Do you like vanilla? Sure! We all do! Well come here and observe the most vanilla of offerings during the Clinton era. This Chevy Malibu was GM’s answer to the automotive androgyny that was the Toyota Corolla. A car that could only be driven excitedly if you placed a catapult just so. Most enthusiasts hated the Corolla, but recommended it anyhow for those seeking a reliable appliance. As for the Malibu?

Rent: It was a ‘value’ proposition. The Malibu would offer you more equipment than a Corolla at a ‘good deal’ price. GM made this into a science back then. Offer more options than the competition at a certain price range. Subsidize the lackluster demand by inserting it into every rental fleet from Florida to Alaska. Finally and most importantly market the thing like crazy.

Lease: $159 / month lease deals. $199 / month finance arrangements back when the dollar meant something. Did we mention the features? GM was already trying to parts bin their ABS and traction control systems when the Malibu came out. But there was two choice ingredients that made Malibus irresistible to consumers searching for the deal of the day.

1990’s era ‘Power Packages’ were the 1990’s version of today’s Satellite Nav Systems. Put em’ in and folks will pay the premium du jour over a base model.  GM threw this ‘loaded feature’  into most Malibu’s along with the (insert annoying car commercial voice here)  ‘3.1 Liter V6 engine’.

A V6 Engine may not mean squat today. But back then it was a big deal and GM’s  parts bin was happy to offer it in everything but a Metro or a Cavalier. The Malibu may still drive like a refrigerator. But the sound of ‘having’ a V6, even if it had the aural quality of a faulty compressor,  meant you could always boast to your friends about how you have a powerful engine shared by only 12 other GM models.

Sell: Of course the unfortunate side of having an accountant inspired car is that you were nickeled and dimed to death. Intake manifold gaskets. Dexron related cooling issues. Axle and drivetrain issues. Steering problems. Cheap plastics. No, it was not all that much worse than a lot of under-engineered vehicles of the time. But the Malibu was no Corolla.

Keep: If a car could keep going with the occasional mild to moderate issue would you keep it? Of course! But it would have to inspire you. The type of car that you could grab the keys and look forward to driving as the morning commute beckoned.

That car is most definitely not a Malibu. It also probably isn’t a 1990’s Cutlass, Century, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Beretta, Corsica, Ciera, Lumina, Skylark or Achieva. The Malibu is probably a good commuter for the mechanically inclined who have ample spare GM parts and relatively short commutes.

So for those junkyard barons with 5 mile commutes and enough of those V6 engines to make Roger Smith blush, I recommend to you my own 2000 Chevy Malibu w/ 124k. Priced at $2500 it’s a steal. Honest!

TK writes:

I have not owned a car for ten years, having lived in cities where I could take public transportation to work. But now I’m being relocated to a large Great Lakes city where I will forced to drive to work about 25 miles each way. Despite my lack of car ownership, I love cars and I love motoring. Heck, I learned to read by subscribing to Car and Driver. However I don’t like spending vast amounts of money and the thought of burning capital on service costs really galls me.

The other wrinkle here is that I’m an up-and-coming young executive in my company, so it is probably a good idea to have a car that doesn’t scream ”schlub”.

I’ve been thinking about getting a gently used (2008 or so) BMW 5-series, but then I looked at its reliability history and I coughed up a lung. Other competitors: Lexuses seem like a snooze; Infinitis have bizarre interiors with lots of buttons; Audis have dreadful service records; Benzes are for old men.

Any suggestions you might have are welcome. Maybe I need to open my mind to Lexus and Infiniti. Maybe I need to suck up the BMW service costs and accept them in a zen-like fashion. Maybe I need to swallow my ego and get a Hyundai. Either way, please do share ideas!

Sajeev Answers:

Seriously? There ain’t no such thing as a luxury car for the cheapskate, hence the exclusiveness of the term. Except when considering the Lincoln Town Car, which normal people shall not.  And considering the flack I get for Panther Love, your average corporate “schlub” won’t schlep in a car so fantastically star-crossed. You my friend, are in a serious pickle.

Consider the Lexus IS: the interior and sheetmetal is right, performance is somewhat inspiring and you don’t look like a rich douche in a BMW or a poseur in a…BMW wannabe machine.  And while the IS should fit in the latter category, it really doesn’t.  Because, no matter what Pistonheads think, it’s a Lexus…a name that evokes 20+ years of nearly perfect customer service, a bulletproof mid-level manager luxury cache with performance and reliability that’s created a reputation that’s the envy of the world.  Whew!

And if you can afford a used IS-F, you get it all in one package.  So what was the problem again?

Steve Answers:

For crying out loud! Who do you work for, Grey Poupon? Nobody is going to give a flying flip about what you drive unless regularly entertain folks with the last names of Trump or Huffington. In which case you definitely better get the stone-aged Lincoln that Sajeev just mentioned.

None of my friends ever bought a premium car until they ‘made it’. Even then most of them still never bought a fancy car. If your work requires it. Fine. But my advice is to buy a nice middle-of-the road midsized car that will let you concentrate on your work.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.