The Truth About Cars » Hydrogen http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:58:32 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.1 The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. The Truth About Cars no The Truth About Cars editors@ttac.com editors@ttac.com (The Truth About Cars) 2006-2009 The Truth About Cars The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. The Truth About Cars » Hydrogen http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/themes/ttac-theme/images/logo.gif http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com Shell Report Sees “Nearly Oil-Free” Transportation by 2070, With Gasoline Replaced by Hydrogen and Electricity http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/shell-report-sees-nearly-oil-free-transportation-by-2070-with-gasoline-replaced-by-hydrogen-and-electricity/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/shell-report-sees-nearly-oil-free-transportation-by-2070-with-gasoline-replaced-by-hydrogen-and-electricity/#comments Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:00:46 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=704594 When-will-oil-run-out--1024x513

For 40 years the Shell oil company has been putting out reports on what expects in the future. This year’s report titled New Lens Scenarios sees passenger road transportation being “nearly oil-free” by the year 2070. The report is in the plural, scenarios, because the futurists at Shell envision two possible outcomes, which they call “Mountains” and “Oceans”. In both scenarios the world’s population will grow to 9 billion people by 2050 and by 2070 electricity and hydrogen will be the primary means of fueling road transportation.

In the Mountains “lens”, existing governmental and economic power structures are maintained, natural gas will become dominant by the 2030s and demand for liquid fuels will go down. A more urban population will drive much less, about 1,200 miles a year, and use public transport and bicycles more. This lens sees economic growth stagnating and the world failing to meet the target of no more than a 2 degree centigrade rise in average global temperatures.

In the Oceans lens, Shell predicts a changing economic structure to one that is more accommodating of compromise. The world in this more collective scenario would be a more prosperous one, but also more volatile. Dwindling resources of food, energy, and water become the new priorities. Solar and renewable energy becomes more dominant, though fossil fuels will still be used and as with the other scenario, global warming continues.

There’s way too much in the report for a single news blog item, and you’d like, you can read the full PDF file here. A more complete explanation of the nature of the Mountains and Oceans scenarios from the report is below.

Mountains is a world in which those occupying commanding advantage (at the top) generally work to create stability in ways that promote the persistence of the status quo. there is a steady, self-reinforcing, lock-in of incumbent power and institutions. this lock-in constrains the economic potential of some sectors of society, but enables established sectors aligned with market forces to unlock resources that require significant capital and new technology. As for the less fortunate, the thinness of social safety nets is not completely offset by the growth in philanthropy, characterised by an eruption of foundations endowed by increasing numbers of billionaires.

Oceans is a world in which competing interests and the diffusion of influence are met with a rising tide of accommodation. this trajectory is driven by a growing global population with increasing economic empowerment, and a growing recognition by the currently advantaged that their continued success requires compromise. steady reform of economic and financial structures keeps pace with the development of fast-emerging nations and progressively unlocks the productivity of broader sectors in society. But volatility and multiple constituencies impede policy developments in other areas, so tight resources are unlocked primarily by market forces.

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Dr. Z Expects a Decade of Disappointment For Fuel Cell Technology http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/dr-z-expects-a-decade-of-disappointment-for-fuel-cell-technology/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/dr-z-expects-a-decade-of-disappointment-for-fuel-cell-technology/#comments Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:00:10 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=704586 DieterZetscheIAA2009

At a round-table discussion with reporters during last week’s Detroit Auto Show, Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche proclaimed that any consumer wanting to be green with fuel cells had better be prepared for a decade of disappointment with the technology.

Zetsche said there were cost issues with the process for creating fuel cells — Daimler’s three-way dance with Ford and Nissan to bring a market-ready fuel cell vehicle by 2017 was done to help spread the cost while accelerating development — as well as a lack of vehicle volume to help further drive down costs, while the few hydrogen fueling stations around the globe aren’t doing anything to help widespread adoption; there are only 10 such stations in the United States alone, eight of which are in Southern California.

Zetsche is more optimistic on the autonomous vehicle front, however, noting the unexpectedly rapid development in the technology. Mercedes-Benz has taken the lead in the space with the new S-Class and its Distronic cruise control system with automatic braking, which can pilot a car on its own for up to 60 miles with a few adjustments to its onboard technology.

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Toyota Will Put Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle On Sale Next Year http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/toyota-will-put-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicle-on-sale-next-year/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/01/toyota-will-put-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicle-on-sale-next-year/#comments Wed, 08 Jan 2014 12:30:43 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=694449 toyota-fuel-cell-vehicle-concept-13

It doesn’t have a name yet, and the prototype that Toyota unveiled at the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show was covered in camo, but the Japanese automaker promises that they will be selling a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in the United States next year. The company is claiming it will have a range of 300 miles and will refuel in less than five minutes. The Corolla sized sedan has been tested in North America’s hottest and coldest locations and Toyota says that the emissions free car will have an electric motor rated at greater than 100 kW (>130 hp) and be able to accelerate from zero to sixty miles an hour in about 10 seconds.

“We aren’t trying to re-invent the wheel; just everything necessary to make them turn,” said Bob Carter, Toyota’s senior VP in charge of U.S. auto operations. “For years, the use of hydrogen gas to power an electric vehicle has been seen by many smart people as a foolish quest. Yes, there are significant challenges. The first is building the vehicle at a reasonable price for many people. The second is doing what we can to help kick-start the construction of convenient hydrogen refueling infrastructure.”

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Toyota’s not saying what the car will cost but it claims that it has significantly reduced the cost of building a fuel cell, approximately 95% in a little over a decade. Toyota spokeswoman Jana Hartline says that Toyota will give consumers “a variety of options” when the H2 FCV, including outright sale. That would make the Toyota FCV the first fuel cell vehicle available for purchase in the U.S. Honda has made fuel cell cars available but only on leases.

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Besides the cost of the fuel cells, which typically use precious metals as catalysts, the other barrier to fuel cell vehicles in a lack of fueling stations, so while you’ll be able to buy a Toyota FCV, you’ll only be able to do that in California, which has at least a rudimentary hydrogen infrastructure. Toyota is working with UC Irvine’s Advanced Power and Energy Program to map out where additional stations should be placed, and based on their models, they say that an additional 68 hydrogen fueling stations will be needed when the cars go on sale.

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California currently has nine public hydrogen fueling stations, mostly around Los Angeles and San Francisco. Another 19 are under development. The state of California has approved $200 million in funding to build hydrogen stations in the state in 2015 and another 20 stations are expected in 2016.

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Carter said that Toyota also plans to independently address the issue of fueling stations. “Stay tuned, because this infrastructure thing is going to happen.”

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Los Angeles 2013: Honda FCEV Concept http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/los-angeles-2013-honda-fcev-concept-harbinger-of-fcx-successor/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/los-angeles-2013-honda-fcev-concept-harbinger-of-fcx-successor/#comments Thu, 21 Nov 2013 05:13:30 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=658658 Honda FCEV 06

Honda’s successor to the FCX Clarity isn’t set to arrive on our shores until 2015, but those in LA bore witness to what its successor would look like through the eyes of the FCEV Concept.

The FCEV can ferry up to five passengers due to the totatlity of the drivetrain stored within what Honda calls “the engine room.”

As for power, hydrogen is used to create the electricity needed to drive the wheels forward. The automaker has improved this process since the FCX, managing 3 kW per liter of hydrogen consumed.

Honda expects the FCX’s successor to have a range of 300 miles, with only three minutes spent at the pump.

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Never Say Never: Hydrogen, Diesel En Vogue Again http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/never-say-never-hydrogen-diesel-en-vogue-again/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/never-say-never-hydrogen-diesel-en-vogue-again/#comments Mon, 18 Nov 2013 14:44:19 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=654082 Honda FCX Clarity

Remember this piece from the Honda Summer 2008 Hydrogen Collection? It was supposed to point the way to future of green fuel technology before the Tesla brought plug-in sex appeal down the ramp with their Roadster and, later on, the S, as well as the trend of compliance EVs from Chevrolet, Volkswagen and Kia.

But with sales of plug-in hybrids advancing far slower than originally expected regulators are taking another look at alternative ZEV powertrains.

Back in 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama set a goal for 1 million EVs on the road by 2015, going so far as to place a $5 billion bet on Tesla and Fisker among other automakers. Since then, only 95,000 units have managed to leave the showroom for the open road, with sales of over 500,000 predicted for 2015 by West Bloomfield, Mich.-based Baum & Associates analyst Alan Baum. With the current administration downplaying their role in the EV market, President Obama is awarding $4 million to aid in the development of fuel cell technology and storage for hydrogen-powered vehicles.

Leading the charge toward the hydrogen future is California. Aside from passing a measure to provide 100 hydrogen fueling stations as part of their clean technology vision, the state’s legislature has fine-tuned the Zero-Emission Credit formula to better benefit hydrogen vehicle producers — such as Honda and General Motors, who announced a partnership to develop their respective technologies back in July — while drawing down power from Tesla to as much as 40 percent by 2015 for each S sold.

Back in D.C., Audi is putting the pressure on the Environmental Protection Agency to change their mileage formula for the showroom window sticker, and to level the playing field in taxation between diesel and gasoline. The reasoning, according to Audi of American president Scott Keogh, is that the current formula favors gasoline power on the assumption that most driving is done in the city; diesel it at its most efficient on the highway, and is one-third more efficient than gasoline in otherwise equal conveyances according to the U.S. Department of Energy. The diesels used today are cleaner as a result of the advent of ultra-low sulfur fuel and tailpipe exhaust treatment.

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Hyundai to Introduce New Sonata, Genesis Models in U.S. in 2014, Fuel Cell Tucson To Follow http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/hyundai-to-introduce-new-sonata-genesis-models-in-u-s-in-2014-fuel-cell-tucson-to-follow/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/11/hyundai-to-introduce-new-sonata-genesis-models-in-u-s-in-2014-fuel-cell-tucson-to-follow/#comments Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:00:48 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=653954 Nanoscale-Device-for-Fuel-Cells-Can-Store-More-Hydrogen-Than-Any-Other-Material-2

At Hyundai’s technical center near Ann Arbor last week, the company’s CEO John Krafcik told reporters that the Korean automaker will introduce new versions of its Sonata and Genesis sedans to the U.S. market in the first half of 2014. The company will also launch a hydrogen fuel cell powered version of its Tucson crossover, sold in Europe as the ix3d, and it is expected to be unveiled at the Los Angeles auto show this week. The 2015 Sonata will likely be introduced at the New York auto show next April.

Krafcik also said that Hyundai plans to build 1,000 of the fuel-cell Tucsons by 2016, but if there is sufficient demand the company can build more. Acknowledging that fuel-cell technology is still in its infancy and “there’s no question the internal-combustion engine will reign supreme for some time,” Krafcik said that the company sees fuel-cell cars as potentially superior to battery powered EVs, with greater driving range and a shorter refueling time. Hyundai’s fuel cell announcement follows news that Toyota will be putting its FCV on sale in the not to distant future.

 

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Elon Musk: “A Fuel Cell Is So…” http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/elon-musk-a-fuel-cell-is-so-bullsht/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/elon-musk-a-fuel-cell-is-so-bullsht/#comments Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:00:28 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=632154

Click here to view the embedded video.

Speaking to Tesla enthusiasts at a Tesla service center in Germany, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk insisted that batteries made more sense for powering electric vehicles than hydrogen fuel cells, calling them “bullshit” and saying that hydrogen isn’t safe to use as an automotive fuel.

“Oh god, a fuel cell is so bulls**t. Hydrogen is suitable for the upper stage of rockets, but not for cars,” said Musk, not missing an opportunity to promote his SpaceX enterprise.

Musk was trying to get his audience to become evangelists for EVs and sustainable transportation to get people to see that electric vehicles are the next step beyond burning hydrocarbons. Getting on to the topic of hydrogen and hydrogen fuel cells, the Tesla CEO insisted that the major automakers that were investigating hydrogen either as a fuel for combustion engines or with fuel cells for EVs were doing so strictly for marketing reasons.

Musk went on to lay out what he believes are technical reasons for batteries’ superiority to fuel cells, power density relative to mass and volume along with the fact that fuel cells are expensive. Then he got on to an explosive topic, the safety of carrying around a pressurized vessel filled with hydrogen. “Hydrogen is quite a dangerous gas. you know, it’s suitable for the upper stage of rockets, but not for cars,” he said.

The Tesla head was in Germany to help boost sales of the Model S, which have been slow. Hoping to sell 200 to 300 cars per week in Germany by the end of next year, Musk announced that the company was developing an “Autobahn tuning package” for the Model S that will be offered to existing and future owners, though he didn’t give many details beyond improved high-speed handling. It’s possible that the package would allow more high speed accelerations than the current Model S does before artificially limiting power to preserve the batteries. No word on whether that feature will just be available in Europe.

Germany has higher speeds and the faster you go the less range your EV will have, so Musk also announced that installations had begun for the first six of what will be a countrywide network of Tesla Supercharger stations. Totaling between 40 and 50 stations, nobody in Germany would have to drive more than 200 kilometers (124 miles) to find the next charge. Superchargers have also been upgraded from 120 kW to 135 kW with even greater outputs anticipated. Tesla also will be be building enough service centers to have 80% of the German population within 100 km (62 miles) of a Tesla service location.

Musk’s remarks begin at ~16:20 in the video above.

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Honda, GM Team Up For Fuel Cell Technology As Alliance Trend Continues http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/honda-gm-team-up-for-fuel-cell-technology-as-alliance-trend-continues/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/honda-gm-team-up-for-fuel-cell-technology-as-alliance-trend-continues/#comments Tue, 02 Jul 2013 15:11:31 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=493926 FCX_Clarity

When it comes to fuel cell technology, everyone seems desperate to hop into bed with everyone else. The past 12 months has been a whole number of alliances; the start of 2013 saw an announcement between Toyota and BMW to partner on hydrogen technology, while Daimler, Ford and Nissan also banded together on their own fuel cell project. Now we can add Honda and GM to that list.

The two auto makers, who would at first glance appear to be unlikely bedfellows, are teaming up to develop fuel cell technology as well as fueling station infrastructure.  The goal is to create common technologies that the two auto makers can share, while also bringing down costs by consolidating their supplier base.

It’s hard to imagine two more different corporate cultures than Honda and GM, but the two do have a fair bit in common when it comes to fuel cells. Honda has been carrying the H2 torch with its FCV fuel-cell car, while GM has logged over 3 million miles in its fleet of FCV Equinox demo cars.

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Toyota Will Launch 2015 Fuel Cell Car, Volkswagen Won’t http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/toyota-will-launch-2015-fuel-cell-car-volkswagen-wont/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/toyota-will-launch-2015-fuel-cell-car-volkswagen-wont/#comments Mon, 01 Jul 2013 12:00:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=493871 Fuel Cell - Picture courtesy tfl.gov.uk

We’ve been saying it for years that Toyota, along with several other automakers, will launch a hydrogen fuel cell car in 2015. Two years ago, you heard it from Toyota’s  Chief Engineer Satoishi Ogiso. A month ago, Toyota’s America-chief Jim Lentz promised that “the first fuel cell sedan is coming to the U.S. in 2015.” Now, Bloomberg says that “at the Tokyo Motor Show in November, Toyota plans to show a hydrogen-powered sedan that would be sold as a 2015 model.”

Bloomberg did not unearth anything you would not already know:  The 2015 fuel cell model will be expensive. Two years ago, amounts in the neighborhood of $100,000 had been mentioned, but Ogiso wanted to bring the price down. Now, Bloomberg says the fuel cell car “could be available in U.S. dealerships as soon next year for a price comparable to a mid-size BMW or Tesla Model S.”

Bloomberg says “a mass-market for hydrogen cars may be a decade or more away,” but Ogiso wanted to start going mainstream by 2020.

One company will miss the hydrogen year of 2015, and that’s Volkswagen,  R&D chief Ulrich Hackenberg told TTAC last week in Wolfsburg:

“We are concentrating on diesel. Fuel cell technology faces an infrastructure problem.  The gas must be transported refrigerated. The total CO2 balance sheet is not so good, local emissions are quite nice. Range is also good.”

Hackenberg said that Volkswagen continues to work on fuel cell technologies, that MQB is ready is ready for it. Volkswagen focuses on diesel and thinks CNG has a future in Europe, and that hybrid seems the way to go in the U.S. and China.

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Lentz: Hydrogen Sedans By 2015 From A Spread-Betting Toyota http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/06/lentz-hydrogen-sedans-by-2015-from-a-spread-betting-toyota/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/06/lentz-hydrogen-sedans-by-2015-from-a-spread-betting-toyota/#comments Thu, 13 Jun 2013 11:56:48 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=491975  

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AutomakerS around the world seem to have colluded to turn 2015 into the Hydrogen year. Yesterday in Nagoya (a trip into which TTAC invested 21,160 yen, and the price of a bento box, no freebie jaunts in Japan) , Toyota’s NA CEO Jim Lentz confirmed that the Hydrogen Year is still on the calendar.

Lentz promised that “the first fuel cell sedan coming to the U.S. in 2015.” Fuel cell technology is a high stakes bet, but it is not Toyota’s only one. Said Lentz:

“We will continue to promote more advanced technologies from plug-ins to EVs as well as fuel cells, and we will continue to make improvements to the internal combustion engine.”

This reiterates statements made by Toyota’s new energy maven Satoshi Ogiso two years ago. It is far from clear which alternative energy will succeed in the market, therefore, betting on just one would be, well, ill-advised. To bet on the right technology, said Ogiso, a large automaker must bet on all:

“We must go multi track. We must improve gasoline and diesel engines. We must increase the number of hybrid models. We must produce the plug-in hybrid. We must develop city commuter electric vehicles. We already started small production of fuel cell vehicles. We must do all these improvements at the same time.”

Of course, Toyota remains bullish on hybrid technology. 15 percent of Toyota’s cars sold worldwide are hybrid-powered, Lentz said. Full-size hybrid trucks and SUVs, powered by a hybrid drivetrain jointly developed with Ford, should become available “later in the decade,” Lentz promised.

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Hyundai Assembling Fuel Cell Tucsons For Mass Production http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/hyundai-assembling-fuel-cell-tucsons-for-mass-production/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/hyundai-assembling-fuel-cell-tucsons-for-mass-production/#comments Tue, 21 May 2013 21:51:05 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=489150 Hyundai-ix35-White-HD-Wallpaper

As one of the big dissenters from the battery-powered EV lovetrain, Hyundai is about to put its money on Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology. Starting in 2015, it intends to assemble up to 10,000 units of a fuel cell-powered version of the Tucson crossover at its plant in Ulsan, South Korea.

While EVs have grabbed a lot of media attention lately, fuel cells have made a slow comeback at manufacturers like Daimler, Volkswagen, Ford, Toyota and BMW. Even Renault-Nissan is in on it.

One Hyundai officially we spoke to gave a few reasons for the company’s decision to pursue hydrogen fuel cells rather than battery-powered EVs. According to him, hydrogen powertrains are easy to scale to nearly any vehicle size, whereas EV batteries “have a logarithmic function between range, performance  cost and vehicle size.” A battery with increased range is much heavier, costlier and takes longer to refuel. Fuel cells on the other hand, don’t have that problem, and take roughly 9-10 minutes to “refuel”, while range is typically around 400 miles.

Hyundai has also apparently reached a point where cost reduction and economies of scale are making fuel cells viable for the mass market. The next step will of course be the infrastructure  Their internal research shows that fueling stations need to be within 5 miles of one’s home to be viable, and the question of who will chip in to help build that network (government, private corporations or private-public partnerships) is still up in the air on a larger scale – but Hyundai and the U.S. government recently announced a partnership to help advance the network of hydrogen stations across America.

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Fuel-cell Vehicles Twice As Fuel-Efficient As Gas-Powered Cars. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/fuel-cell-vehicles-twice-as-fuel-efficient-as-gas-powered-cars/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/fuel-cell-vehicles-twice-as-fuel-efficient-as-gas-powered-cars/#comments Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:36:03 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=481948

 

Hydrogen does not seem on top of President Obama’s agenda, neither does it rank very high on Martin Winterkorn’s list of priorities, but it sure is popular in Japan. Japanese carmakers, led by Toyota, are targeting a 2015 launch of hydrogen cars.

Toyota also says they are the most energy-efficient.

According to The Nikkei [sub], Toyota figures that fuel-cell vehicles are about twice as fuel-efficient as gas-powered cars. And contrary to popular wisdom, there is lots of hydrogen. Says the Nikkei:

“Hydrogen can be made from liquefied natural gas and obtained via industrial processes such as the refining of petroleum and the production of steel. Oil refineries produce massive amounts of hydrogen to remove sulfur while producing gasoline and other petroleum products.

As refineries start to close, oil companies will no longer need to use hydrogen to remove sulfur from petroleum products. This will create a surplus supply of hydrogen, which can then be used to power fuel-cell vehicles.”

There is another source of hydrogen: Dead trees. A group in Miyako, Iwate Prefecture. wants to produce hydrogen from gas generated by turning timber into wood chips.

The hard part is to make fuel cell vehicles affordable, and to package everything so that it fits a compact car. Toyota does not have a problem envisaging fuel cell vehicles at a reasonable cost. Two years ago already, Toyota’s chief engineer Satoshi Ogiso told TTAC that an affordable hydrogen-powered car in this decade is “his job.”

 

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Reshuffling The Stacks: Volkswagen Bets On Hybrids While Toyota Thinks Hydrogen Is A Winner http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/reshuffling-the-stacks-volkswagen-bets-on-hybrids-while-toyota-thinks-hydrogen-is-a-winner/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/reshuffling-the-stacks-volkswagen-bets-on-hybrids-while-toyota-thinks-hydrogen-is-a-winner/#comments Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:27:20 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=481370

 

Volkswagen has been tinkering with hydrogen for longer than I can remember. Yesterday, CEO Martin Winterkorn said it was all for naught. Hydrogen fuel cells are unlikely to become a cost-effective way to power cars in the near future, Winterkorn told Automotive News at Volkswagen’s press conference in Wolfsburg. He said it’s not Volkswagen’s fault:

“I do not see the infrastructure for fuel cell vehicles, and I do not see how hydrogen can be produced on large scale at reasonable cost. I do not currently see a situation where we can offer fuel cell vehicles at a reasonable cost that consumers would also be willing to pay.”

Automotive News takes that as an indicator that VW won’t join a list of global automakers that want to roll out fuel cell vehicles in the 2015-2020 time-frame, among them Toyota allied with BMW, a Nissan-Renault-Daimler-Ford alliance, Hyundai, Honda, and more.

Instead, VW is seen to embark on a somewhat belated diesel plug-in hybrid strategy, while hybrid pioneer Toyota does not have a problem envisaging fuel cell vehicles at a reasonable cost. Two years ago already, Toyota’s chief engineer Satoshi Ogiso told TTAC that an affordable hydrogen-powered car in this decade is “his job.”

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Volkswagen, Ballard Power Sign Fuel Cell Deal, Worth Up To $100 Million http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/volkswagen-ballard-power-sign-fuel-cell-deal-worth-up-to-100-million/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/volkswagen-ballard-power-sign-fuel-cell-deal-worth-up-to-100-million/#comments Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:50:34 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=480440

Canadian fuel cell firm Ballard Power inked a deal with Volkswagen that could be worth as much as $100-million and last up to 6 years.

According to the CBC, Ballard will provide fuel cells for VW’s HyMotion hydrogen lineup, which will consist of a demonstrator fleet for now. Long a darling of North America’s clean energy sector, Ballard’s automotive fuel cell business began to turn south over the last decade, and in 2008, Ballard sold its automotive fuel cell assets to Daimler and Ford.

Ballard remained in the fuel cell business for forklifts, buses and stationary electrical generation, though it continued to keep a foothold in the automotive fuel cell business. But a number of advances in hydrogen fuel cells, from the technology itself to the abundance of natural gas used to make hydrogen to innovative fueling projects that use sewage, have spurred renewed interest in hydrogen as an automotive fuel.

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Nissan Promises Big Car EVs For The Wide Open Roads http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/nissan-promises-big-car-evs-for-the-wide-open-roads/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/nissan-promises-big-car-evs-for-the-wide-open-roads/#comments Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:56:58 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=475792

America, land of wide open roads and big cars, listen up: On the sidelines of Nissan showing its new day care center at its Yokohama headquarters to reporters, Nissan’s COO Toshiyuki Shiga made a comment that should resonate well with American customers:

“Fuel-cell technology is suited for use in large vehicles and long-distance driving,” Shiga said, in answer to a reporter who asked whether Nissan’s new collaboration with Ford and Daimler on fuel cell technology would eat into Leaf sales. EVs are small vehicles for short range driving, and the laws of physics will try their level worst to keep it that way.

Hydrogen-powered vehicles, which are, for all practical purposes, EVs with a battery that is charged with hydrogen, already can last longer on a single tank than most gasoline-powered cars. They also can be filled-up just as fast as a gasoline-powered car. Limited range and charge times of many hours will keep BEVs in the small niche they are.

I went to Yokohama to take pictures of Shiga with cute Japanese babies on both arms. There were none, the kindergarten won’t open for business until April. It shall be ignored by TTAC until Nissan offers me a photo op for cute baby pictures.

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Ford, Daimler, Renault-Nissan Alliance Sign Huge Hydrogen Pact http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/ford-daimler-renault-nissan-alliance-sign-huge-hydrogen-pact/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/01/ford-daimler-renault-nissan-alliance-sign-huge-hydrogen-pact/#comments Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:47:19 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=475522

There are people, and some of them comment on TTAC, who are convinced that a hydrogen-powered car is an insanity that will never work, but other people who work at the world’s largest carmakers beg to differ. Today, Ford, Daimler, and the Renault-Nissan Alliance signed a tripartite pact for the joint development of a fuel cell system that promises to be implemented faster, and at lower cost, both to automakers and customers.

The plan is to leverage the considerable economies of scale of the three signatories into “the world’s first affordable, mass-market FCEVs as early as 2017,” as a joint communique says.

All three have significant experience in FCEVs. Their FCEVs have logged more than 10 million km in test drives around the world. There is one problem that faces all presumptive makers of FCEVs: How to make them affordable. If they are affordable, they will hopefully be bought. If there are FCEVs on the road, hydrogen fuel stations will hopefully follow.

This ramp-up is too steep for a single automaker, even the biggest one in the world. After Toyota and BMW, Ford, Daimler, and the Renault-Nissan Alliance formed an even bigger pact. The three companies will invest equally into the project, and amount was not disclosed.

Discounting doubts of TTAC commenters, Thomas Weber, a member of Daimler’s management board, said: “We are convinced that fuel cell vehicles will play a central role for zero-emission mobility in the future.”

Expect more alliances (who’s left, Volkswagen and GM?) and an industry-wide push for FCEVs in the 2015-2020 timeframe.

 

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Japanese And Korean Carmakers Jointly Promote Fuel Cell Vehicles http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/japanese-and-korean-carmakers-jointly-promote-fuel-cell-vehicles/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/japanese-and-korean-carmakers-jointly-promote-fuel-cell-vehicles/#comments Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:34:12 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=463325

Pretty much most of the world’s large automakers plan a commercial launch of fuel cell vehicles in 2015, Hyundai even earlier. One of the hot spots could be Scandinavia. At the end of a month-long hydrogen-powered tour through Europe, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Hyundai signed an agreement to jointly promote fuel cell vehicles in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Denmark.

The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) provides mostly for moral and promotional support and is hoped to be “a catalyst to begin a dialogue between public and private stakeholders in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Denmark on securing relevant financing and support mechanisms for accelerating market introduction of FCEVs.” What is interesting is that the three Japanese majors are doing something together, and that they are bringing the Korean juggernaut Hyundai on board.

Japanese makers have big hopes for fuel cell technology. Mitsuhiro Ueno, head of Honda R&D Europe called the fuel cell vehicle “the ultimate green mobility.” FCVs don’t have the drawbacks of pure EVs, namely limited range and long charge time. What is holding them back are price and infrastructure.

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European Hydrogen Fusion Between Daimler, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/09/european-hydrogen-fusion-between-daimler-honda-hyundai-toyota/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/09/european-hydrogen-fusion-between-daimler-honda-hyundai-toyota/#comments Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:34:42 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=460226 Call it synchronicity or call it conspiracy: 2015 is drawing closer, the year when several large global automakers will begin full-scale launches of hydrogen-powered automobiles. Developing new powertrains being costly with unassured payback, automakers form alliances to share the cost. And alliance of Daimler, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota to jointly promote hydrogen use would be surprising, they usually are otherwise engaged. However, the four join hands, forces and cars for a grand hydrogen tour through Europe.

Starting in Hamburg, Germany, on September 13, seven Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs) will travel through Hannover, Bolzano, Paris, Cardiff, Bristol, Swindon, London and Copenhagen, and points between. The party is BYOH, bring your own hydrogen: Mobile refueling stations will be set up by H2 Logic Denmark in stopover cities.

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The End Run Of The Fuel Cell Race http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/08/the-end-run-of-the-fuel-cell-race/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/08/the-end-run-of-the-fuel-cell-race/#comments Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:38:54 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=456059 The excitement about battery electric vehicles seems to die down amidst disappointing uptake. Range, weight and cost are in the way. At the same time, dormant interest in fuel cell vehicles is being rekindled. A month ago, we had a new look at the technology from the perspective of the Toyota/BMW linkup. Today, The Nikkei [sub] takes a broader view and says that carmakers are in the final lap of the fuel cell race. Let’s have a look at the contestants and where they stand.



Says The Nikkei [sub]:

“While many car companies are already in a fierce battle for a slice of the market for environmentally friendly vehicles such as hybrids and electric cars, they are also in the final stages of developing fuel-cell cars, which are widely expected to be the ultimate eco-cars because they emit no greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, or other pollutants.

Leading the charge in fuel-cell development are Toyota Motor Corp. , Honda Motor Co., General Motors Co. of the U.S. and Germany’s Daimler AG. The stakes are high, given the vast sums already spent.”

Roland Berger Strategy Consultants told the Tokyo wire that “the four automakers have already spent a combined 100 billion yen on the technology.” That would be a little over a billion $, and I believe that number is low.


Fuel cell research had been conducted since the last millennium. The 2008 financial crisis slowed it down. Carmakers had to cut R&D even on regular cars. Recently, development revved up again.

Prototypes and test vehicles have been driving around for years without exploding. 2015 is the date several carmakers name for the first commercial launch of fuel cell vehicles. Satoshi Ogiso, Toyota’s man in charge of new technology, thinks that the only challenge is affordability.  During an interview with TTAC last year, he likened the challenge to what had faced him during the launch of the first hybrids in 1995.

Just like hybrid powertrains in the 90s, current fuel cell powertrains are big, bulky, heavy and expensive. Ogiso and his colleagues at other carmakers are working on the problem.

The solution to many ills in the auto industry is scale: Make and sell enough cars with the new technology, and you can spread the price of development over many units. Also, with mass production, the price of components can come down drastically.

Even the largest automakers don’t want to wait until they achieved the necessary scale effects themselves. They forge alliances with other automakers.

  • Toyota, usually a company that does it alone and in-house, famously entered an alliance with BMW.
  • Nissan and Renault agreed with Daimler to expand the scope of their cooperation to fuel-cell cars.
  • Honda appears to be partner-less.
  • GM negotiated a fuel cell partnership with BMW. The Bavarians broke off the discussion and are winding down a new energy alliance with GM partner PSA after hooking up with Toyota.

Says The Nikkei:

“One GM executive who has worked on the automaker’s fuel-cell effort for a long time lamented being handed another setback by Toyota.”

Observers familiar with the matter expect more tie-ups. The Roland Berger consultancy predicts that Toyota will enlarge its circle of fuel cell partners.

It will be a few years until fuel cell cars can compete in the marketplace. In the meantime, there is a fierce and sometimes uncivil competition for government grants.

When the U.S. government did bet heavily on EVs in 2009 and decided to shift funding away from fuel cell vehicle research, Secretary of Energy Steven Chu said that fuel cell vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years.” In the meantime, he had a change of heart.

“The development of America’s tremendous shale gas resources is also helping to reduce the costs of producing hydrogen and operating hydrogen fuel cells,” Bill Gibbons, a spokesman for the department, told the New York Times in May.

If an investment into fuel cell vehicles would be successful at last, past investments into EVs would not go to waste. A fuel cell is just another battery. Except that it can be charged in minutes than hours, and except that it lasts 400 miles instead of 100.

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Toyota And BMW Plan To Take The Lead In Commercializing Fuel Cell Cars. Let’s Revisit http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/06/toyota-and-bmw-plan-to-take-the-lead-in-commercializing-fuel-cell-cars-lets-revisit/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/06/toyota-and-bmw-plan-to-take-the-lead-in-commercializing-fuel-cell-cars-lets-revisit/#comments Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:05:03 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=450769 The intensified alliance between Toyota and BMW shines a new light on a technology that has been discussed for decades, but that never quite made it: Hydrogen fuel cells. BMW will get access to Toyota’s fuel cell technologies. This most likely spells the end of the fuel cell cooperation between BMW and GM. Let’s take another look.

Toyota is far ahead with the technology. The company had Fuel Cell Hybrid Vehicles (FCHV) on the roads for ten years. In 2009, it “launched” its FCHV-adv, basically a Highlander with the hybrid synergy drive from the Toyota Prius connected to a 90kW fuel cell stack. A few months ago, editor-at-large Ed Niedermeyer and I had it on a short test ride through the scenic warehouse landscape of Torrance, CA. Except for an eerily quiet drive, the ride was uneventful.

On a full tank of – this time real – gas, we could have taken it all the way to San Francisco and beyond – no range anxiety here. Fuel cell vehicles have all the advantages of a battery-operated vehicle, i.e. no emissions (the fuel stack produces water), and nearly none of its drawbacks.

If you want to drive tailpipe emission free, your choices are battery, or fuel cell. A fuel cell is basically a battery. Fuel cells and batteries use a chemical reaction to make electricity. When the chemicals in a battery are depleted, you must recharge or throw away the battery. The chemicals of a fuel cell are hydrogen and oxygen. You provide the hydrogen. The fuel cell stack uses free-of-charge oxygen from the air and produces electricity plus H2O – water. Proponents of the technology say that well-to-wheel, fuel cells involve much lower emissions than batteries. Refilling the hydrogen tank should not take longer than filling up with unleaded. Next stop after 400+ miles.

The only way to extend the range of a BEV (if you don’t want to add an ICE) is by adding more batteries. This quickly becomes an exercise in futility. Each added battery cell means more weight, heavier brakes, a larger traction motor, a stronger body to carry the mass, and in turn even more batteries. And most of all, it becomes insanely expensive.

Not so with fuel cells. Fuel cells can make electricity at weights that are between eight to 14 times less than current batteries. Extending the range of a fuel cell vehicle has negligible impact on its weight.

Like electricity, hydrogen is not a way to make energy, it is a way to transport energy. Hydrogen can be made in the same number of ways as electricity.

And why aren’t we all driving around in fuel cell vehicles by now? There were a number of technical challenges, but as Toyota Chief Engineer Satoshi Ogiso had told us last year, the challenges have all been mastered. The only real problem Ogiso is facing with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is money:

“For us, the only remaining real issue that stands in the way of fuel cell electric vehicles is mass production cost.”

Current fuel cell technology is big, bulky, heavy and expensive. With enough scale, package size and price can come down considerably. Toyota plans to launch a commercial FCV in 2015. It still will be expensive, the Nikkei figures 5 million yen, or $62,000. By 2020, Ogiso plans to have an affordable FCV.

Luxury vehicles are much better for early-tech alternative propulsion, because the cars are big enough to hide the heft and expensive enough to mask the price. With their alliance, Toyota and BMW plan totake the lead in commercializing fuel cell cars,” as The Nikkei [sub] writes. Says The Nikkei:

“Other automakers are forging ties over green technologies. Daimler AG is rushing to develop a fuel cell car with capital partner Nissan Motor Co. Meanwhile, Honda Motor Co. and Hyundai Motor Co. are developing fuel cell cars on their own. General Motors Co. has been considering a fuel cell tie-up with BMW, but it may have to change course now that the German firm has opted to partner with Toyota.”

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BMW And GM Cooperate On Hydrogen Car http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/bmw-and-gm-cooperate-on-hydrogen-car/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/bmw-and-gm-cooperate-on-hydrogen-car/#comments Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:52:41 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=421957

At the Tokyo Motor Show, the announcement that Toyota and BMW are in cahoots over batteries, diesel engines and possibly more was the talk of the show. Back in Bavaria, BMW displays a promiscuous bent. BMW will cooperate with GM, yes GM, on fuel cells. This at least if the German magazine Wirtschaftswoche is correctly informed.

Sources told Wirtschaftswoche that a cooperation between BMW and GM is as good as done. A MOU will be signed with great fanfare at the Detroit motor show in January, says the magazine.

BMW has no comment, but confirms that there are negotiations with GM. BMW is not known for its fuel cell prowess. According to the information of Wirtschaftswoche, highly profitable BMW will share the cost of fuel cell development with GM, and will be supplied with hydrogen-powered fuel cells by GM.

The on-again, off-again hydrogen fuel cell is definitely on again.  In our interview a month ago, Toyota’s chief for new technologies, Satoshi Ogiso, confirmed that the technology is ready for prime time, the only remaining problem is cost. Toyota will launch a mass produced fuel cell car in 2015. Ogiso promised it will be affordable by 2020. GM is looking back at a long history of fuel cell development and will also sell a hydrogen-powered car by 2015. So will Hyundai. Nissan (cooperating with hydrogen-pioneer Daimler)  likewise signaled that it will not place a single bet on EVs, and that fuel cell cars are in the cards.  BMW once had planned to launch an ICE that runs on hydrogen (see above), but that idea, well, bombed.

 

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Toyota Targets 2015 Fuel Cell Sales… At A Six-Figure Price Point http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/toyota-targets-2015-fuel-cell-sales-at-a-six-figure-price-point/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/toyota-targets-2015-fuel-cell-sales-at-a-six-figure-price-point/#comments Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:21:12 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=417339

Think hybrid and electric cars are expensive? Wait until automakers start selling hydrogen fuel cell cars. Toyota tells Automotive News [sub] that it’s targeting global sales of a “few thousand” fuel cell vehicles by 2015. But because the technology will be rolled out due to emissions standards rather than widespread market demand, expect the price for the hydrogen Toyotas to be breathtakingly high. Says Toyota Europe’s Vice President for Product Planning & Marketing Alain Uyttenhoven

We could expect a fuel cell vehicle to retail at about 100,000 euros in Europe.

Phew! All of a sudden those EVs aren’t looking so overpriced, are they? Which might be why Uyttenhoven adds

We see pure battery-powered vehicles to be just a solution for small trips in the city, while a plug-in gasoline-electric hybrid is the best solution both for weekday urban commuting and weekend trips. Our research shows that more than 80 percent of urban daily trips are less than the 20km.

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Dan Akerson Talks Down Hydrogen, Reveals Natural Gas Plans In Extended Interview http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/dan-akerson-hydrogen-down-natgas-up/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/dan-akerson-hydrogen-down-natgas-up/#comments Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:49:37 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=404978

In an extended interview with Fareed Zakaria this weekend, GM CEO Dan Akerson repudiated a lot of GM’s previous optimism about hydrogen fuel cell cars, saying

We’re looking at hydrogen fuel cells, which have no carbon emissions, zero. They’re very expensive now, but we’ve, just in the last two years, reduced the price of that technology by $100,000. The car is still too expensive and probably won’t be practical until the 2020-plus period, I don’t know. And then there’s the issue of infrastructure

The DetN points out that GM had previously said that it would have anywhere from 1,000 to “hundreds of thousands” of fuel cell cars on the road by 2010, and most recently said (in 2009) that the technology would be “commercialized” by 2015 and “cost-competitive” by 2020. So, if hydrogen is moving to the back burner, what’s moving up? Akerson revealed that

soon we’ll be introducing “bi-fuel” engines which can burn both compressed natural gas and liquid gasoline.

We’ve seen GM take early steps towards bringing a natural gas-powered car to the road, but this is the first sign from a top executive that a dual-fuel car is a certainty in GM’s near future. By talking down hugely expensive hydrogen cars and talking up cheap natural gas powerplants, Akerson sends a strong message that GM’s green car efforts are moving in a more pragmatic direction. Hit the jump for part two of the interview, in which Akerson talks gas tax and green cars.

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GM Plans Opel Flagship As “Technological Spearhead” (Or XTS Rebadge?) http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/07/gm-plans-opel-flagship-as-technological-spearhead-or-xts-rebadge/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/07/gm-plans-opel-flagship-as-technological-spearhead-or-xts-rebadge/#comments Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:54:31 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=404176

With Opel planning to pull itself into the black within the year, the brand’s thoughts are turning from survival to “luxuries” like a flagship model planned for around 20k units starting in the 2016-2017 timeframe. Codenamed “TOL” for “Top Of Line,” the sedan will be designed to highlight one of GM’s many alt-drivetrain technologies, but according to Automotive News [sub], nobody yet seems sure which. Opel labor rep and recent champion of the brand’s forthcoming products Klaus Franz explains:

Already with the our Ampera electric vehicle, we have shown what we are able to do and enjoy an advantage of two to three years compared to the competition

But with the TOL is planned for 2016, Opel may have to dig deep to jump out ahead of the market, which is why a fuel cell-powered electric drivetrain is being considered (also, after decades of FCV research, GM has to build a production model someday). And if the eventual product has a truly ahead-of-its-time drivetrain, and looks as good as last year’s Flextreme Concept (above), this flagship could be an exclamation point on Opel’s turnaround. Unfortunately, neither of these things are a given…

Let’s start with the looks: according to AN [sub]:

In May, Opel CEO Karl-Friedrich Stracke said the company was mulling a new flagship model that would improve the brand’s image. He told a Germany’s Welt am Sonntag newspaper that the car would be a crossover between SUV and station wagon, with an attractive design, high functionality and premium features.

Which means the flagship could come out looking like the 2007 Flextreme concept instead of the low, sleek, coupe-ish looks of the 2010 Flextreme.  Don’t the Opel boys remember what happened to Renault when it tried to build flagships in the shape of vans and station wagons? The Avantime and Vel Satis were wild and funky looking cars, but even the French understand that the luxury market is wildly conservative.

And speaking of wildly conservative, Franz’s comment that the TOL’s drivetrain would be “years” ahead of the competition should probably be taken with a grain of salt, especially in light of another comment he made:

The workers representatives will support this project to the fullest. A flagship like this can only be built on the Epsilon 2 architecture with long wheelbase. We will do everything to build this car at our headquarters in Ruesselsheim, rather than Mexico or elsewhere

An alt-drivetrain “flagship” based on a stretched version of the Epsilon II platform? Where have I heard of that before? Oh right, Cadillac’s XTS “phantom flagship,” a stretched Epsi-II sedan with a plug-in hybrid V6 drivetrain (at least eventually). But the XTS is going to market next year as a 2013 model… and if the Opel were just a re-skin of the Cadillac, there would be no reason to wait until 2016. Not only would an XTS derivative not be “years ahead of the competition” if it launched in 2016, it would be three years behind Cadillac, which (like Chevy) GM is pushing in Europe.

So, will the TOL end up an XTS rebadge or will the three extra years go into developing a legitimately unique drivetrain, possibly a fuel-cell job? It’s too early to tell yet, but one thing is certain: either way, Opel’s stretched Epsilon-II “flagship” won’t come to the US as a Buick for fear of cannibalizing the XTS. Which will just go to show that the XTS should have been born a Buick in the first place.

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Daimler Plans Volume Production Of Hydrogen Cars In 2014 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/daimler-plans-volume-production-of-hydrogen-cars-in-2014/ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/daimler-plans-volume-production-of-hydrogen-cars-in-2014/#comments Fri, 03 Jun 2011 08:45:16 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=397234

 

The ominous Hydrogen Year 2015 is popping up again.  Last year, Byung Ki Ahn, general manager of Hyundai-Kia’s Fuel Cell Group said: “There are already agreements between car makers such as ourselves and legislators in Europe, North America and Japan to build up to the mass production of fuel cell cars by 2015.” Going  through the many files produced in Brussels, you find that in Europe “car manufacturers are getting ready for the commercial production of hydrogen vehicles by 2015.”

Now Daimler will begin series production of hydrogen fuel cell cars in 2014. This is what Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche told Das Autohaus. Together with Linde, a manufacturer of industry gases, Daimler wants to build a small network of hydrogen fuel stations. By 2014, the n umber of hydrogen stations in Germany will rise to 50. Germany alone would need around 1,000 hydrogen stations for a nationwide supply.  And then, motorists will complain that they won’t find any in Italy if they decide to drive to Italy.

 

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