TTAC commentator hidrotule2001

Hey Sajeev,

A few months back you helped me sort out a plan of action for my Ford Fiesta transmission problems, and I have another stick-shift quandary I thought you might have some insight on.

My second vehicle is a 2003 Ram 1500 (bare bones work-truck, standard cab, manual everything), which I’ve recently been doing a lot of maintenance on (new plugs, pads, rotors, u-joints, carrier bearing, and a few other things). One issue I haven’t been able to sort out is an odd grinding/squealing I get when the car is in gear at high rpms (3000+) with the clutch peddle fully depressed (on the floor), something akin to what you hear if you come off the clutch with the shifter only part-way into gear.

Everything I can find on forums seems to indicate this is a worn throw-out bearing, but there seem to be a few things that suggest otherwise:
1) it only happens above a certain RPM (3000+), and makes 0 noise if the clutch is put in at lower revs
2) it only happens when in 1st gear, and occasionally in 2nd or 3rd (but much quieter in these cases)

I’ve had two local shops take a look at it, and neither was able to say more than it might be the throw-out bearing, or possibly some other bearing in the transmission, and they wouldn’t be able to say for sure unless they pulled the transmission out. I figure if it’s to the point that the transmission needs to be pulled, I should look at replacing the clutch (since it’s still on it’s first one, with 120k miles), and possibly some other transmission components, but that’s going to set me back a pretty penny (and it seems like throwing parts at a transmission problem is a good way to lighten you wallet quickly). I’ve also noticed that first and second gear are “clingy” and that when I shift back to neutral and/or have the clutch engaged, it takes substantially longer for the RPMs to return to idle than it does in higher gears, on the order of 2 full seconds(I’ve never noticed this in other M/T vehicles I’ve had, or if there was a difference it wasn’t noticeable). I’ve got a video where you can see the difference in time it takes to return to idle, as well as hear the grinding noise, here.  I’ve also found that the problem is worst when the engine is cold, for the first 10-15 minutes of driving after starting.

At the advice of some DodgeForum members I recently took the truck into my local independent shop to have the clutch, throw-out bearing, transmission fluid, and pilot bearing replaced, but my mechanic called back to say he was pretty sure those weren’t the cause of the issue. He’s convinced the issue is coming from something within the trans, possibly the counter shaft bearing, and was hesitant to replace components he didn’t think were causing the issue. His quote for a rebuilt transmission was 1700, with shipping and labor and a new clutch, that would end up around 2700, which is right about what the truck’s worth.

So now the question is, do I…

-Wait things out and see if they get any worse?
-Have the clutch components replaced anyway and see if that improves things?
-Have them pull the trans and hope it’s something easy to replace/fix?
-Look for a used trans and have that installed instead of a rebuilt one?
-Bite the bullet and have a rebuilt trans installed?
-Try my hand at a tranny-pull and see what trouble I can get into?

Thoughts/suggestion/voodoo-cures welcome. Thanks!

Sajeev answers:

You covered all the bases, short of learning how to rebuild gearboxes yourself.  Which is usually the big problem here: nobody knows what the hell is failing until a rebuilder takes it apart and assesses the situation. I consider transmissions (of all types) to be magic boxes of horror that you must never tear apart unless you are ready for a complete rebuild.  Obviously that doesn’t include accessible fail points like the clutch, torque converter, etc that aren’t encased within the gearbox itself.

Maybe you need a new clutch/throwout bearing/pressure plate/pilot bearing, but if your mechanic says no, I revert to my “magic box of horror” tranny theory.

Don’t worry about RPM hanging between gears, that’s part of the engine computer’s tuning. Not sure why it would hang more gears than others, but make sure you are driving the same way (intensity of throttle input, RPM speed before going into neutral, etc) in all gears to see if there actually is a problem. The hang in my Ranger was super annoying in all situations, so an SCT tune cured it…among other things. But I digress.

Back to your mechanic’s recommendation: let the transmission die, don’t change it immediately.  Just make sure you buy a good replacement from a trusted rebuilder.  If your local searches fail, get one from Jasper or a similar national distributor with a good reputation.

Send your queries to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry.

Chris

Sajeev,

In a couple recent Piston Slap articles you’ve mentioned that when driving car with a manual transmission its most efficient to accelerate with the engine near its torque peak, then cruise in the highest gear possible. This raised two questions in my mind:

1. Does the engine’s torque peak vary based on throttle position? From what I understand, power and torque curves are generated at wide open throttle. But would the torque curve look different at, say, 50% throttle? I’ve heard that exhaust backpressure can affect the torque curve (maybe this is a myth). Could throttle position have the same effect via intake vacuum? Speaking of intake pressure, that leads me to my real question:

2. How does your strategy of accelerating with the engine near its torque peak apply to a turbocharged vehicle? My car has a turbo and according to the manufacturer the torque peak is 2000 rpm. But clearly it’s not always capable of generating max torque at 2000. If I’m loafing along at 1800 rpm and floor the throttle it takes a very laggy second or so for the boost to build and its definitely past 2000 rpm by the time it starts really generating power. I’m thinking there must be a different torque curve for part-throttle acceleration, when the engine is either off-boost or not making full boost. I think this would also apply to an engine like Audi’s supercharged V6, where the supercharger can de-clutch from the engine under low load. Any thoughts on the most efficient way of accelerating in a turbo? Better to accelerate “on boost” at relatively low rpm and relatively wide throttle? Or accelerate with less throttle, keeping it out of the boost (but probably winding the tach up more to avoid moving at a snail’s pace)? Or just forget the whole thing, floor it and enjoy the wild turbo-torque surge?

If these are stupid questions, please disregard. These are just things I ponder while sitting in traffic… Keep up the great work!

Sajeev answers:

This is a fantastic question that I am totally not qualified to answer…but that hasn’t stopped me before, and it hasn’t stopped you lovely people from reading, so let’s do this thang!

Point #1: Yes, throttle position will affect the torque peak. Because an engine is basically just an air pump, if you have less throttle you have less air, less fuel and therefore less power.  Thankfully, with the advent of electronic fuel injection there are multiple mappings: older systems have a full and a part throttle program, and newer systems probably have several.  So I betcha you can maximize an engine’s efficiency at just about any throttle opening. Every application is a little different, and many are tuned to maximize performance with a computer reflash from an aftermarket programmer.

As a rule of thumb, and I’m ready to get slammed by engineers for saying this, backpressure (or a lack thereof) does indeed affect the torque output of an engine.  More importantly: backpressure isn’t a good thing, finding the ideal exhaust velocity to minimize backpressure while keeping the speed “slow” enough to not hurt torque output is crucial.  That’s why, in the past 10-15 years, we see far higher quality exhaust systems in all OEM applications: no crush bends in the tubes, cast iron manifolds that are shaped more like aftermarket tubular headers, and mufflers/catalytic converters that aren’t a significant restriction.**

Point #2: turbocharged motors are just like point #1 when it comes to power in part throttle applications. And every boosted application out there is different. Once again, and even more so, tuning makes ALL the difference in the world.  Because the turbo is a muffler/restrictor in the exhaust system, you want as little restriction behind it to ensure maximum efficiency: hence why the Dodge SRT-4 is muffler-less from the factory.

My gut feeling is that with any modern car, turbo or not, you need to give it more gas to cut through the slop of electronic throttle control/torque management to get into your torque peak quicker.  Spend less time accelerating and more time cruising, with traffic conditions in mind of course. That doesn’t mean you run wide-open throttle, either. There’s a happy medium out there, somewhere.

Off to you, Best and Brightest: I’m ready, I’m wearing my flame suit.

**Grab a catalytic converter from the 1970s-early 1990s. They neck down, restrict air flow, etc far more than the goodies I see today in cut-away diagrams at the auto shows.  We have come a long way, baby.

For 2013, America’s cheapest car will get another bit of unloved technology to go along with its continuously variable transmission.

The 2013 Nissan Versa sedan, currently available with a CVT or a 5-speed manual, will also get a 4-speed automatic option for the base model S trim. With the CVT adding $2,130 over the 5-speed manual, the 4-speed unit should command a lower premium than the CVT, albeit with an arguably cruder, less pleasant driving experience.

The hate for the CVT and 4-speed auto here at TTAC is about evenly matched, but if I had to pick, I’d come down on the side of the 4AT being more popular. Prove me wrong.

Brian writes:

Not sure if this would be appropriate “piston slap” fodder or not, but here goes:
Our blossoming family recently expanded to five. My wife and I, and a three year old, a 20 month old and now a 2 month old fill up the house. We occasionally travel with our 75 lb dog. Knowing the Volvo Turbobrick would not handle the cargo/dog/people, and the PT Cruiser remains the most reliable vehicle ever built (even if the timing belt changes are a big pain) we decided to sell the Volvo for something more appropriate, if a lot slower and FWD.

Enter the Freestyle. We routinely get 28 mpg on trips, parts are cheap, we have lots of cubbies for kid’s junk and the car seats fit easily. I purchased a high mileage (150k) example that was a one owner (ish) with all receipts. It was a fleet car for some guy who then bought it when his company was done with it. It had the CVT replaced at 118k miles with a remanufactured transmission from Ford, installed at a dealer.

A few weeks ago the CVT died on us. At 153k miles. There was just over 1,000 miles left on the warranty. We all got home safe and sound, and the transmission was replaced. Again. With a remanufactured unit. Again. It’s apparently the only thing available. No new ones exist and nobody rebuilds them. I have a connection with the transmission rebuild world. I’ve called transmission parts suppliers and they don’t even sell a manual for it.

I’m not what you’d call ‘shy’. I do all my own work on my cars with the exception of this, flashing the ECU for a TSB on the aforementioned PT Cruiser, putting tires on wheels and replacing windshields. I’ve done a fair amount, but I’ve never owned anything this expensive. I fully expect this remanufactured transmission to die in roughly the same amount of time. My theory is that while the original certainly seemed to fare decently (118K on a conventional transmission is not terrible for a heavier people mover), the reman probably was rebuilt by the same folks who do the $34.99 starters for small block chevies that seem to last just a day over the one year warranty that you find in the local pep-advanced-zone’s. The choices are basically as follows:

Take a big depreciation hit and attempt to sell it (we bought it in March) and buy a Taurus X with the conventional automatic and the better 3.5L engine. We cannot afford this now, but I have a few years to see that mileage on the reman CVT.

Replace the CVT in the Freestyle with the 6F in the Taurus X. I know this isn’t easy. The engine should bolt right up, and the mounts should be pretty close (I have a welder and a hammer) but the ECU is the tricky part. This is not a slam dunk.

Replace the CVT in the Freestyle with the Aisian in the 500. This is only slightly more of a slam dunk, because it’s probably the same ECU. I just need to find out how to flash it.

Learn to rebuild the CVT myself and build a great one and keep it onhand as a spare. My neighbor has a lathe and Bridgeport in his basement. I am a degreed engineer. It would take a while, but it could work.

Sajeev answers:

Oh yeah, this is totally a Piston Slap worthy article. Not like we haven’t done this before, ya know. And while I am (a little) surprised that a Ford Reman transmission does this poorly, who knows who actually did the rebuild! It’s an orphan design, which is never good. The ideal transmission for the long haul of ownership is something with tons of support, and GM transmissions have usually done the best for decades, for this reason. And if you can’t procure a 100% new, never rebuilt CVT assembly, I agree with you.

Having done transmission swaps before (and truly hating myself during that time) and knowing a bit about Ford electronics, here’s my recommendation: do that 6-speed swap. Get a Hollander Interchange manual to find out which Fords used the same vintage 6-speed as the same year of your Freestyle. If you can easily snag that gearbox from the same vintage Five Hundred, you are set. But who knows, maybe there’s a cheap wrecked Fusion nearby that has the same part for much less! It all depends on the market and availability.

From there you will need to see what’s different in the mounting and wiring of the transaxle on the subframe. Maybe you need a different mount, maybe not. Perhaps there’s an extra wiring harness, or a completely different one! Maybe a new shifter in the console too. Hopefully not, and a factory shop manual with wiring diagrams will help.

Once you clear that hurdle, the final part is easy. The ECU’s are pretty simple, as Ford hasn’t made a significant change in them during this era. Odds are you can take any one of them and re-flash the correct transmission logic with a brilliant person and an SCT tuner in his pocket. Which will set you back up to $500, I suspect. That’s your fallback, because I suspect getting a matching computer from a donor Ford Five Hundred will make it all work great…but if not, the SCT-tune is the way to go.

It will be a ton of work, both in research and sweat equity. But I suspect a smart dude like yourself can get this done for under $1500, if you get lucky with the cost and quantity of parts needed for the swap.

Best of luck.

Send your queries to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com . Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry.