What I find amazing is that the no debt secret to financial success is no secret at all, but so few get it. People are all so sure that the wealthy are in on some big secret, when most of the actual wealthy have regular incomes and are willing to tell everyone how they did it for free.

Move along, folks. There’s nothing to see here.

Phil

I admittedly am going on my personal experience that body on frame vehicles (which is all “real” SUV’s IMO) last longer and better than unibody. Part of it is simply the ability to rehabilitate the vehicle even if it succumbs to rust. In the case of my truck, it was simply overbuilt to a stupid degree.

I have seriously considered going out and getting a classic car that is body on frame and having it rebuilt with perhaps even a much newer engine.

There is no free lunch, so I would be giving up a lot of safety to get a really fun car with good performance AND efficiency. Take a car that was 150 to 180 hp new, put in something similar but modern that gets 220 with likely a bigger torque increase, and see what happens. Maybe even a new suspension if I have the cash.

I stopped by the “biggest dodge dealership in the midwest” (Sherman Dodge) and the lot was HUGE, full of pickups, minivans, and large vehicles in general. They actually ran out of space in the lot and are leasing ANOTHER entire lot that used to be a ford dealership…It had just sprinters, dodge based dump trucks, more pickups…and very few “cars”, and that is where the $12,997 RAM 1500 was.

I talked to the salesguy a bit (we got there late and I didn’t want to keep him late since I knew I wasn’t buying) and he took us to the 2nd lot and let me sit in it. Not bad….base sticker was at $21k or $22k and out the door was about $14.7. Not bad but I figure I”m probably better off looking for something for $7k or $8k that is 4 years old and buying a 2nd motorcycle.

What I did like is that cheapie had ABS, cruise control (steering wheel controls), 6 speed manual tranny, intermittent wipers, cd player and some other goodies. Only downside was the 6′ bed instead of 8. He told me if I told him in advance he’d have it dug out already for when I arrived so I could test drive it…..

May go back at end of summer to see if it’s still there.

Landcrusher, you implied by your statement that SUV’s inherently last longer than cars. While I seriously doubt that to be true, I don’t have any source of information to back up either point of view. Has somebody out there seen a study indicating that a given type of vehicle outlasts the other?

If a buyer cannot live with his car for life (meaning until the car is ten years old, at least) by himself or by passing it on for a nominal price within his family / extended family, he should really double-check what he is doing. He may not be doing the wrong thing, but odds are he is.

Buy for the long haul, and/or buy used so you can hit the ten-year mark more quickly. Do this unless you are filthy rich or buying well below your “affordability point” as it might be traditionally defined. To talk from experience, my car is a 14 year old Panther platform with over 180,000 miles on it — and I keep it because it works and has dual airbags, not because I couldn’t qualify for the payments on something newer or nicer if I went out and tried. When I’m up for a bit of fun, I rent a MINI and thrash it good.

Planning on a trade-in — relying on a trade-in — means putting your faith in strangers (i.e. faith in their willingness to take your car off your hands for a fair price when the time comes), and as we’ve seen, that faith is not always rewarded. That’s a bit of frugal “self-sufficiency” that should be second nature to most Americans, but seemingly isn’t. If current conditions persist long enough, though, we’ll re-learn our virtues and life will go on from there.

Well put. given the current market, GREAT, new family sized vehicles can be had for 22-25k. no need to spend more. The equipment level on these cars is way more than a driver needs…

At some price point, it will be too much.

If it cost $200 to fill up your car?

Once upon a time, say in the 70s, pick-ups could be had cheaper than cars. A full size (only size) Blazer could cost more, given extra sheet metal and 4×4.

As they gained in popularity, automakers packed on bling and boy did they pack on the price. It’s hard to justify an SUV or pickup costing 2x or more the price of a car.

Carmakers got fat off the margin, and believe it there was a lot of per unit margin.

All that is happening now is that the price of SUVs and pickups are coming down to earth, to the market level their utility (and downsides) deserve. OK, maybe they are moving a little lower as an overreaction.

The pickup/suv bubble was due for a pop.

Next bubble due for a pop: $30k+ mid-size Accords, Altimas, etc. An 80% uplift from bottom level to top level of the exact same model is nuts. I expect the market to start to seize up at the higher end, as fewer people can afford (read, get loans for) 12k GPS devices, 6 cylinder engines, leather, and so on.

The market speaks. Americans can no longer afford to look just at the monthly payment, since they will find it harder to qualify for loans and rentals (er, leases).

Or move to Saskatchewan, where self-righteousness takes many forms, but not in vehicular choice.

The problem with buying a big US SUV in europe is several fold. Taxes, roads, repairs, etc.

OTOH, there are parts of the world that will likely be better prospects. Shoot, the folks in Cuba would like nothing better than a boat load of eighties SUV’s. Pretty similar to the cars they have now!

Are we all that close to the bone ?

Yes

where the smell of fear is palpable

Robert, surely you can distinguish between fear and feces.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/732271-post13.html

Unless of course Europe has such high trade tariffs to negate all price advantages.

I need to get it at rock bottom when the dealers are stuffed with 07/08/09 models but before the manufacturers radically cut production.

It really depends on the distance they travel. That $100 dollars could be per week difference. I travel 35 miles each way to/from work (total of 70). If I had an SUV or large pick up you can bet that would be closer to $100 a week or more…or $400+ a month.

I know a couple that has a 60″ plasma, Harley Davidson, and VW GTI. And they’re making payments on them all (also $5000 upside down on the GTI).

For years I was way ahead on operational costs with my used crusher. I get 14 mpg, do under 8k a year, and it rarely needs any repairs, and it was depreciating VERY slowly. Every year I did the math and was ahead.

I don’t know if that’s true now. Not because the fuel mileage, which really doesn’t add up to much, but because all of a sudden, my truck has depreciated like a yellow banana.

There’s good news though. I CAN own this truck for life. It will last that long. So, I will keep it. That’s the problem with selling new SUV’s. Our vehicles last, so us buyers of real SUV’s can wait to buy a new one for a loooong time.

I’m kinda poor.

But what does it say that the whole nation is freaking out, including mainstream, middle class business park America ?

Are we all that close to the bone ?