But in cars it just seems a bit counterproductive. Yes, you get better mpg but the emissions are worse than gasoline. Maybe the carbon output is less but particulates are much worse. You can add extra stuff and tech to to properly scrub the exhaust, but by that time it seems things have moved beyond the practical to “doing it just because you can”.

Maybe it makes sense in Europe but I still don’t see it making sense in the US. Yes, a typical US 4 banger diesel might get 40% better mpg than a gasser, but after you end up paying 25% more for the fuel you’re net savings is only 15%. Then you have to consider extra hassle of finding someone competent to repair it and added maintenance expense. And with the hype there is an increase in the price of diesel cars over gassers, so that eats in to the savings as well.

I would rather buy a hybrid. There is more complexity, but they run cleaner and the maintenance isn’t any worse.

That depends on the ROI, no? I spend about 3 hours a week to make 35 or so gallons. Most of the process can be automated if you are at all competent in some basic engineering and construction. It does take about 3 weeks for the whole process to work (lots of settling time) so the key is to keep a buffer of stuff in-process all the time. The ROI: my fuel costs three-quarters to two-thirds less than what you pay at the pump. That savings is worth my time.

This whole DIY part of Diesel is what makes it so attractive to me. No other current technology allows a driver to become truly decoupled from the petroleum infrastructure and its crazy market forces. People can diss my fuel, my emissions, and my choices, but I just smile when they bitch about what they pay at the pump. You can’t be truly self-reliant with a Prius. You can with a Diesel.

What chaps me about being a consumer is not having any choices when buying. How many Diesel cars are available to American consumers? Hardly any. Last I checked in fact, it was exactly two.

–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org

What the Jetta TDI showed this week, in my estimation, is that “clean diesel”, even though it’s barely clean enough to be allowed here (much dirtier than most gas engines), is too clean to be economically competitive.

For me, there’s a strong psychological advantage to getting 50+mpg (imperial) and paying a bit more at the pump and the cost of the vehicle, in order to achieve low cost journeys. Also, I don’t really like going to the filling station, so I like getting 600 miles out of a tank.

This site’s interesting about Diesels, but easy to pick holes in (no references): http://www.peugeotdiesel.com/Diesel_Facts.html

“Biodiesel (from used cooking grease) just takes too much time to make.”

It depends on the value of your time and how much diesel you use.

Airhen:

“I have always wanted a diesel Jeep. I test drove a Liberty CRD once, and wow, was that fun to drive! I already had a Liberty in the family so I passed on it for a Wrangler instead. I was last Fall thinking of a Grand Cherokee CRD, but I’ll have to see what happens with diesel prices and all.”

The KJ is a much better value than the WK.

You can get a Sport Liberty for $14-16k or a Limited for $18-20k while the relative handful or CRD Grands are still north of $35k.

IMHO You are paying twice the price for 20% more vehicle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jazari

This guy laid the first principles for an engine back then, with a crankshaft and piston pump.

1206? Could you please elaborate–with references if possible?

I bought mine the weekend before katrina hit, so at least I didn’t pay the silly premiums people did after. Still wish I had flipped it though, and bought a fun car like an s2000.

Biodiesel (from used cooking grease) just takes too much time to make.

I think that good turbos like the BMW 3.0 twin turbo are the biggest threat to diesel. Low end torque plus excellent mileage and future development potential.

The petrol engine has a much storied history than that (dating back as far as 1206)! Unlike the diesel engine which was solely created by one Rudolf Diesel.

The problem auto makers will have with pollution controls is that they’ve cried wolf far too many times. They’ve said that every new law would drive the cost way up. Then it didn’t.

Governments have learned to ignore all such protests.

Same with diesel fuel, it’s a whole £1 more expensive than petrol. So any saving is lost.

The Germans won’t let diesels die a death. National pride is at stake (They invented the technology), they’ll do one of 2 things:

1. Re-invent diesel powertrains (i.e a new “bluemotion” system)
or
2. lobby goverments to ease up pollution laws.

I’ve already seen option 2 being applied in Europe. The EU made CO2 (Not NOx, HC or CO) the main cause of car taxes (i.e charge by the amount of CO2 it releases) and guess which fuel emits less CO2…..?

until we have HCCI hybrid engines which trumps both of them…until we have fuel cell engines or perpetual engines (let’s make steam engines from all the hot air from our politicians and D2.8 management).

OTOH, trending out the present diesel price increases will give unreliable results.