Needless to say all the options. It has 225,000 miles on the north star engine 4.6. I put an extra court of full synthetic oil in at every oil change does not hurt the engine and engine never runs low of oil between oil changes.

Replaced Brakes, tires, sparkplugs sparkplug wires, filters are all I put in it. The sun roof still works and does not leak. Replaced the battery Original exhaust.

It has not rusted. I get 18/20 in the city 28/30 on the highway. Still looks real pretty

It is Big. 4 adults can sleep in it on long trips. My friends with the German and Japanese cars don’t want to talk about their repairs. Expensive even the exhausts

How these people get their ideas American cars donot last is beyond me.

psarhjinian :Not necessarily, and only if you intend the car to have sporting intentions. If you don’t, the drivetrain allows for some impressive amounts of room, and the sheer mass over the front tires (and the space for decent suspension geometry) mitigate worst of torque steer.

So who has Cadillac designed this car for? Old wealthy people that still think the Cadillac name has cachet. The second owner will be someone looking for good value, which the steep depreciation will assure. Just like Caddys of yore. How does this car help Cadillac fix its brand image?

I’ve never driven any of these 3 cars, but in concept I like the 300C best: fullsize, V8, RWD. I know this has been debated endlessly, but if you’re talking fullsize luxury, those are the basic criteria.

The 300 seems to have attracted a younger crowd too. That’s something which this Caddy certainly never will, except as second owners.

The driving experience is where the Lexus comes up short. The STS is much more of a driver’s car (at least as mine is equipped). It’s a real pleasure driving it on a twisting country road. The Northstar has plenty of power and in sport mode the transmission does a good job of keeping the correct gear. The ride is just right, not too firm yet the car never feels uncomposed.

As I’ve said before, I’m grateful to everyone who discounts the value of the Cadillac and drives down resale value. The result is a screaming bargain of a car for those of us who are looking for the value proposition.

The big MB sleds may offer better handling, but has anyone here really looked at the material quality inside a 2003-2008 S500? Hollow plastic door locks, not exactly the most premium leather, and the electrical gremlins to boot?

Has anyone here test driven one the Lexus G cars, that have annoyingly busy (bordering on harsh) rides, or the LS, which has a very plush ride and is extremely quiet, but offers numb steering with zero road feel, and costs north of 80k in full regalia?

A Caddy DTS offers a very quiet, extremely plush ride, and the interior material quality isn’t nearly as bad as this review states.

GM flops again……..

Not necessarily, and only if you intend the car to have sporting intentions. If you don’t, the drivetrain allows for some impressive amounts of room, and the sheer mass over the front tires (and the space for decent suspension geometry) mitigate worst of torque steer.

The DTS’ problem is that it’s really not very good, not which wheels pull or push the car. Trimmed and featured to be competitive with a Lexus LS it might be taken more seriously, especially if GM were to take a “Fuck it, let’s build the most awesome luxo-boat we can build” tack in the design. I think there’s a market for that kind of car, even if it’s front-drive, and it’s GM’s (and Ford’s, and Chrysler’s) unwillingness to build it that’s the problem.

The problem is that GM builds the DTS to a hamstrung, penny-pinched, badly compromised standard. Which is the same problem that the Town Car and 300C have, and is pretty much the epitome of why the D3 are where they are.

Which is rather the point of this comparison, I think.

No kidding. Even if they are on one engine, there’s the whole rest of the car to consider. The Panthers are Ford’s cheapest car**, in the “how much blood can we squeeze from the stone” sense of the word. The components that last a long time are those that were engineered to relative stability decades ago.

The new stuff breaks. The Panther’s redeeming feature is that they’re cheap and easy for fleet/livery people to repair. Sure, they go a long way under horrible conditions and are easy to repair if you maintain a bunch of parts cars.

Most people don’t.

For a normal person who doesn’t wrench (and doesn’t hop curbs or perform PITs or traverse downtown New York every hour of every day) the MKZ*** is argurably a better car. I spent time in both, and the MKZ has more supportive seats in all four positions, a better powertrain, more features and a ride that isn’t nautical.

The Town Car has a nice back seat for entertaining, ah, company and rides better over terrible pavement. And it’s cheap to fix if you’re a share-tree mechanic.

** I’m sure Ranger and E-Series are cheaper, but they’re not cars

*** Yes, the Fusion clone; the Taurus-clone MKS destroys the Town Car in “normal buyer” terms, the MKZ is only marginally better.

The STS is actually a very nice car that needs only a slightly-nicer interior. For some reason, GM sees fit to upstage the STS with the CTS. GM could also benefit from not sending out the White-pants-and-big-sunglasses version to auto scribes; it gets it’s ass handed to it by the Lexus GS, let alone the 5-Series. The sport-suspension equipped STS (and especially the V) are quite good drives.

Fundamentally, it’s excellent car that GM can’t seem to market. My guess is that it’s expensive and they don’t want to waste precious margin on it.

The DTS is a waste of space, produced to keep factories humming and sold only because the margin on it, by comparison, must be astronomical (you know, when it sells).

I don’t care how many cool toys it has, fullsize car + FWD = fail. Caddy lost the plot and still hasn’t found it again.

Twotone

It’s my understanding that the air suspensions on TC’s all die sooner or later — usually sooner. The livery owners replace the air bags with springs. Easy and cheap to do. Have a look.

http://www.strutmasters.com/lincoln-town-car-suspension-s/37.htm

I’m game. Who has the the other two?

Even though I normally buy sportier cars I grew up with a father who always had Buicks and Oldsmobiles in the driveway. He still says his favorite car was his ‘85 Park Avenue on which he put something like 150k trouble free miles (no joke).

Besides the fact that my automotive tastes veered off in a different direction long ago, I do have to admit that I like the styling of the Lucerne. I was stopped next to a dark cherry red Lucerne at a light last week and it actually caught my eye… then again, I just turned 40 so perhaps my eyesight is going and I’m starting to turn into my father.

At these prices, the idea of a used Buick actually starts to look tempting. If one keeps your expectations in check, there’s something to be said about a quiet comfortable car. And to be fair I couldn’t give a darn about manual gear changes in an automatic… most of them just end up in D after the newness wears off anyway. I’ll take the savings over a new BMW and buy a used Porsche for fun drives and sit back and relax when I’m stuck in traffic and just trying to get around town, which represents 90% of the driving I get to do anyways.

So screw a new Hyundai or tiny cramped BMW 3-series. For $40k give me a used American luxury car for the commute and a clean low-mileage ‘89 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera (a REAL Porsche). I’ll even have enough cash left over for my cheap insurance and some in savings to cover repairs with Hans at the local Porsche shop. If I were to buy a new 911 and drive it for 3 years I’d lose at least $40k in depreciation alone, not to mention all of the speeding tickets I’d inevitably get…

Great, I’m gettin old, crotchety and cheap.

I guess people did that when the LS400 debuted. After it proved its bonafides, people stopped complaining about it.

Once the Genesis proves itself, people won’t even dream of comparing it to the likes of the TC ever again.

The 300, of course, doesn’t fit that description, and it’s also the only one in the comparison to be generally considered to be a “modern” car instead of a throwback. Coincidence? I think not.

Regarding the Town Car, why is it that people always complain about the Genesis (and to some extent Lexuses) being marketed on price, but every defender of the Town Car brings up the economics of owning one?

Also regarding Town Car economics: those high mileage figures aren’t necessarily on one engine. Livery garages are generally more likely to swap an engine than try to fix it. The durability of the body is only really an issue if you’re driving like a taxi driver. Under normal luxury car usage, rust is the limiting factor, not potholes.

Any idea how the air suspensions hold up on them? I never had a problem with mine, but I’ve seen countless TCs, Mark VIIs and VIIIs dragging their asses around town. And Continentals bobbing and crabbing around on their bellies. I wonder do the livery service people throw Crown Vic coil springs on those TCs when the air suspensions fail and call it a day?

Speaking of which, I had a Town Car once. 1990 with the old 5.0L EFI Windsor. A lot of those cars had over 200k on the clock, but I lucked out and found one with only 70k for dirt cheap. I got acquainted with the American definition of “real luxury”. Yeah, with plastic-molded fake leather stitching on the doors and dash. And fake chrome that flaked off with age. And the leather seats that were more “pleather” than leather. Once the transmission started going south and the fuel economy dipped from 19 to 13mpg, I let it go for a song.

Honda still hasn’t figured that out, and they are now the overseas afterthought in the American lux-bomber market.

Honda figured putting their resources into V8 development during an era of $4 gas and increasingly stringent fuel efficiency requirements wasn’t the smart call. I actually fault Honda for taking everything that made the Legend what it was (sporty, athletic and good looking) and completely throwing it out of the window with the RL. Looking at these two cars is like looking at night and day. Infiniti dropped the ball by making their second-gen Q45 more of a LS400, relegating it to second-string status forever on.

Why is a V8 so important? Modern V6s make as much HP and torque as these ancient dinosaurs, and are much more efficient.

V8’s make a sound and have a balance to them that is unique and desirable. That’s not an American thing, either. Inline 6 maybe, but V6? No way. It’s interesting to note the “best” motor in this three-way was the pushrod V8 no less.

When Toyota made Lexus, they had a V8 for the LS400 and SC400. Same with Nissan. Ditto for both outfits when they wanted to make a bona-fide big truck. Hyundai knew this, they knew that to be competitive in the luxury market they needed a decent V8. So they got one.

Honda still hasn’t figured that out, and they are now the overseas afterthought in the American lux-bomber market. Too bad, too. Small displacement V8 with Honda performance breathing and RWD would be like getting a Ferrari powertrain on the cheap, in your sedan no less.

Come to think of it, the Acura RL does well what the Lincoln does badly and vice-versa. If you could add those cars together and divide by two, you’d have a pretty decent luxury ride.

“Well, none of the Genesis V8 sedans they had on the lot were $44k. Try $48k, more with TTL of course. Oh, also add $300 for tinted windows and desert protection.”

That’s a reflection of your dealer not the Genesis. I’d just priced out a few Genesis (Geneses?) last week. Nowhere near your prices:

Base V6 = $30,100
V6 with Premium Plus (no nav, 14-speaker Lexicon) = $32,100
V6 with Premium Plus & Tech Package (equipped like the V8 you tested) = $35,700
V8 with Tech Package = $38,600

That includes freight & dealer doc fees; T&T additional.

“The performance for it’s much touted V8 is… underwhelming.”

Which is why the V6 is considered the bargain – better mileage without that much of a performance hit.