Possible CDI buyer

And in spite of pinching Audi’s head of interior design some years ago, in this respect Mercedes still seems to have a long way to go…

We have an 2004 E500 4Matic and none of the seat wobble you mentioned. There are some cheap plastic controls, especially the temp control, but nothing too terrible. It’s still way better than the interior in our Infiniti FX and Honda. Everything feels very solid. No problems with the car and it’s great for comfortable drives.

The cost of an E500 4Matic is double that of an FX, and almost triple of Honda Accord.

At that price range, try LS460 or Q45. When compared with those two, the MB E500 is not only cramped inside, but also a tad lower in refinement.

I’m also perplexed by your comparison of the cheap build quality of the E when you compare it directly to a 190 (not exactly the pillar of elegance and design to begin with, and those blue blooded Merc faithfuls you mention so lovingly, hated the damned thing ferociously for cheapening the marque), this alone causes me to wonder if your predetermined verdict of the E was already weighted against the rallying cry that all ‘modern’ Mercedes are crap so that you could excite the fanfare bash of the brand and have them all puppets upon your coattails in a celebratory circlejerk of armchair experts whom have never even owned a Merc. This sort of depravity is also known as the “Bangle” effect and causes for much chest beating and feces slinging. It is always sure to please a crowd.

I’ve lived with diesel Mercs for most of my life and must say that the current E (the CDI in particular) is every bit a merc as the ones my family has kept in the past (aside from the orange dials and covered shift gate). If it worries you that this doesn’t feel as a $50kusd saloon should, I suggest you try feeling out the offerings by Nissan/Infiniti or BMW, I’m sure those high scale appointments should suffice your distinguished tastes, and iDrive would be a perfect match to you, not quite sorted out though still well smug with itself. As for your story, hell, I can’t even figure out if you won the damn race you were going on about. Is there another page to this article that I’m missing?

So let’s raise a toast to Chris Bangle for doing to BMW what Lee Iacocca did for Chrysler in their first mini-vans. And I’ll agree with you on the Bangle “7″ series; it is a beautiful shape marred slightly by the trunk design, but it definitely had more “presence” than an equivalent S-class. I happen to disagree with respect to specifically the dashboard of later-model BMW’s when compared to their predecessors. The E24 6-Series, however was simply beautiful and very driver-centric.

BMW’s obsession with the elimination of buttons is counter to what is being done with the cars; more complexity either equals more buttons, or some godawful mess like I-Drive with its multi-layered menus.

Note that Fisker also did the Z8, surely one of the most beautifil BMW designs ever created…

He did many things for which he needs to be lauded – such as more or less single handedly persuading the BMW management, and by extension that of all competing premium manufacturers that cupholders are a good idea. If you drive often and long distances, and use any German car (or that of most other non-US or primarily US focused manufacturers) you need to be grateful to the man. His acomplishment was pure genious and went along the lines of taking the BMW management to the newly opened US production facility (Spartanburg, IIRC). They were obviously chauffeured around in the then current 7 series and he made sure to provide all of them with drinks. Which they then prodeeded to hold in their hands for several hours, since there was no other place in the car to put them ;) A decision was made the same evening to equip all the future BMWs with cupholders.

In my opinion he also cleaned up BMW interiors and for the first time made at least some of them appealing to me. I generally never consider BMWs (it seems to be hereditary), because the ergonomics never work for me – the seat either needs to be put all the way to he floor, or I bang my head against the ceiling, and to top it all off, all BMWs prior to his first 7 series have seats, which I find intensely uncomfortable.

I agree the 3 series and 5 series are pretty tragic when it comes to interior appeal but in my opinion they are no worse than their predecessors, either. At least the current ones are no longer full of tiny butons, which are all the same and cannot be operated by touch alone, like in some other cars, where interior ergonomics receive a higher priority.

I also feel the E65 7 series was the first competitor to the S-Class, which at least visually out-S-Classed it (I know it sounds horrible but bear with e). After the Schlachtschiff W140, which was widely criticised for its arogance MB made the successor a lot more timid. In many ways it made sense for BMW to demonstrate with the E65 that God is a Bavarian, or if you have it, flaunt it for the less Germanic ones amongst its customers. This potentially also explains the much higher success of the E65 in the Middle East, the US and Asia than any previous iteration of the car. It was likely better in tune with the times, as is the new one, at least compared to MB. It also seems to me to be much more of a spiritual successor of the Barickengel BMWs of early postwar years, than of the big BMWs after the E23.

When it comes to Fisker, I very much like some of the Aston Martin work he did but find that the man only knows how to draw one single shape, and that’s it. Bangle, on the other hand seems much more creative, and versatile to me.

On the other hand, I do tend to like manyof the down-Bangled cars much better, too, when compared to the ones, where he was given full reign :)

Chris Bangle may have influenced the design of the E46, but the BMW board had not yet been given his koolaid suggesting that flame surfacing and childish cut lines were appropriate to a premium sports sedan. And I do worry about the fact that von Hooydonk is still lurking in the background, as he is a protoge of Bangle’s. Neither hold a candle to Henrik Fisker or Wilhelm Hofmeister.

you are aware that the E46 was a Bangle design as well, right? And that the E90 was by von Hooydonk and not Bangle? :)

As to MB, with the sole exception of the CLS, their designers seem to be working hard to make each model more ugly than the corresponding model from BMW. It is tragic that the nose-heavy Audi models are now the shining stars of automotive design from Germany.

Clearly not. Look at the e46 and e90. Everyone complained about Bangle and the exteriors. The real crime took place when the very functional interior was cheapened and made a lot less functional. The cup holder off the dash is a botch, switchgear and vents all went downmarket, and the interior is just not as well assembled as the e46. Same for the 5 series.

I worry that the e46 is the W123 of BMW

I guess there will be no MB products in our household for at least 10 years as a result of that experience. Possibly never.

“… not terrible…” and “… won’t miss it…” are the theme.

Not Terrible is fine for a Kia. Not a $55,000 car that is supposed to represent the standard of the world. Shame on you, Benz.

Justin Berkowitz :
March 9th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

Paul Niedermeyer :

And the Mercedes diesel in the American-market E300 diesel/turbodiesel also was an inline six until 1999.

You are both incorrect on this… the MY05-06 W211 E320 CDI is a inline 6 turbo-diesel. The MY 07-09 Bluetec is the new V6 turbo-diesel.

I have driven both the 06 and 07 diesels, and neither was as well built as my W124 E300D was… but, they were both WAY quieter, got better fuel economy, and were WAY faster. If I had to choose I would probably want an 06 because I believe the engine is probably a bit more reliable based on the proven designs… but the conventional brake systems on the 07 and newer W211 are SO much better then the electronic versions in the 03-06 models.

I have a friend that has an MY03 E500. It has been less than reliable… lots of trim, electronic, and Airmatic shock issues.

That said, just like most new cars, the seats are junk compared to the older iterations. And the puking tranny fluid on cold days (warranty item) really scared the heck outta me.

Still its a good car. Won’t miss it when the lease runs out, and it needs a Sport and/or AMG package to really blow me away. But most E-class buyers probably love its ride/handling combination.

I was under the hood of the E320 quite a bit. Believe me, all the cylinders were in a line.

The new Bluetec is a V6, I think.

06- http://carad.ebayimg.com/i16/03/a/000/79/ee/1fe0_4.JPG

07-http://photos.ebizautos.com/used-2007-mercedes~benz-e~class-e320-8178-3882290-25-640.jpg

The 320 CDI engine is a V6, not an inline/I6, as have all MB sixes for about twenty years now.

Actually that’s incorrect.

Mercedes used a 3.2 liter inline six in cars like the W210 series E320 and R129 300SL/SL320 until 1997.

And the Mercedes diesel in the American-market E300 diesel/turbodiesel also was an inline six until 1999.

Schm: And that I6 is sweet

The 320 CDI engine is a V6, not an inline/I6, as have all MB sixes for about twenty years now.

We have a MY2006 car, and haven’t had any serious (or semi-serious) problems with almost 50k. And that I6 is sweet and gets fantastic gas mileage. The general rule of thumb is that the newer MY you get, the better MB’s reliability becomes (I.E. 03-04 much riskier than 07-08)

Also, yeah the steering is vague. It’s not a track car, more of an Autobahn cruiser.