Down on the showroom floor, the guys talk about the “Needs-Payoff:” trying to turn a customer’s perceived need into a coveted sale. This marketing concept finds its Ford translation in the highly anticipated solution, the Transit Connect. The Blue Oval Boyz see gold in them there panel vans—assuming gas prices go north of the three dollar mark as their number crunchers and street-walking doom preachers predict. Gas prices be damned; the Transit Connect screams success for many self-made citizens, provided they don’t carry more than 1600 lb or tow anything to bring home the bacon.
Aside from the droopy-lip front bumper, Ford’s cargo van (in XL trim) succeeds where the first Dodge Caravan “CV” failed: it’s elegantly utilitarian, not frumpy and cheap. The wicked fast A-pillar climbs above the door frames for a quirky dash of style, much to the wannabe-SUV Scion xB’s disappointment. In fact, I reckon the Transit does the vanning thing like the VW Microbus. Plus, I felt so cheeky and European just standing next to it.
But automotive Mennonites rejoice, because there’s no mistaking a Transit Connect for a CUV. Hard but rich-grained plastics surround your fingers, there’s painted sheetmetal elsewhere. Ford threw in some retro masonite paneling on the rear doors for that unfinished art studio feel. Combined with the cargo’s rubber floor, RV-worthy overhead storage, perky seat fabrics and surprisingly high quality buttons and vent registers, the Transit Connect appeals to more than the ordinary work truck buyer.
Not all is perfect: the center console with floor shifter is a waste of space, especially since it lacks an armrest for the passenger seat. But (optional) features like Ford’s laptop Work Solutions system makes sitting on the Transit Connect’s modest yet accommodating bucket seats better than a day spent in your average cubicle. And it’s reasonably fun to drive, much like today’s taller, fatter Ford Focus. No surprise then, the Transit Connect handles like a hot hatchback that’s taken an Octomom-like fancy for in-vitro fertilization.
Unlike any other van, the Transit Connect corners flat in most situations, with stunning lateral grip and less push than expected from a nose heavy beast: I clipped a freeway underpass at twice the speed of our Ford Econoline tester, realizing the Transit Connect had plenty more. 
And just like the Focus, there’s a 2.0L Duratec I-4 and a four-speed slushbox under the hood. The gutsy and thrash-free four cylinder made for effortless merging on a Texas highway filled with larger hauling machines. An unladen Transit Connect moves at a decent clip, but the intimidation level rises considerably when reaching the van’s cargo limit: a small-bore motor takes time to build steam when a wide ratio gearbox keeps the revs down and out for the count. Europeans will find it immediately familiar, Americans will find it slightly annoying.
So keep a loaded Transit Connect in the city and enjoy the ergonomics: the (optional) rear doors swing out 255° with the push of a button, and the mid section’s sliding doors open effortlessly, sans motorized assists. All 135 cubic feet of cargo space is easy to reach, and users shorter than six feet tall can walk inside without folding in half. If there’s enough space for a service tech and his storage shelving system back there, every other work vehicle is screwed. Sell your camper shell futures now!
But nobody’s perfect: like every other portal on the Transit Connect, opening the hood requires the ignition key. Which means you have to turn off the van to get under the bonnet. And the hood’s latch/lock combo resides under the grille’s Ford Oval. Missed that in the owner’s manual? Fear not: the instructions are under the grille’s logo, where your less-than-attentive employees cannot find it. Unless the logo is misaligned like our tester, refusing to latch shut. Hey, Europe, what’s so bad about an in-cabin hood release? 
And the ignition key that opens everything is still in trouble. Lose it back beyond the radiator after opening the hood and Ford charges $200 for a replacement key, which you cannot buy anywhere but a FoMoCo dealer since it isn’t shared with another US-bound Ford product. Uh-oh.
While the Transit Connect is influenced from the USA Ford parts bin, the lessons learned from the Dodge Sprinter are obvious: component cost, availability and downtime from poor dealer training/servicing can kill Dearborn’s latest, brightest idea. Eventually.
If so, a comparable Econoline is only two grand more, and it’ll keep food on your plate if Ford turns this (showroom) hero into a (service department) zero. But let’s hope this gas-sipping global sensation gets the C-level Executive love it truly deserves, and, unlike the Ford Contour/Mondeo, meets its potential in the USA. If not, chalk up this idea with the rest of Ford’s famous American nameplates that bit the dust from corporate greed and product neglect. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
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I’ve been looking forward to this vehicle, even moreso the electric version that was supposed to be here by now. Glad it works well but surprised it got five stars considering the 4 speed auto and no diesel option.
The exterior hood lock was used for 2 reasons:
1. It saves having to tool up and route different inside hood releases for right and left hand drive.
2. The underhood components are more protected should someone break into the cabin.
I thought it was rather an elegant solution.
Bob
Looks as if it could be customized into a family hauler/ camper with a much roomier interior and much safer body structure than variants of the VW Microbus.
This is one great little van that will define the segment. It is an honest commercial vehicle that was designed to withstand the harsh usage in Eastern Europe and Turkey. I hope can bring the Connect here in sufficient numbers to satisfy demand. This should really catch on with the outfitters for things like taxis, wheelchair vans, and minibuses, The high roof and low floor make it a breeze to get in and out of the wide sliding door.
I sat in a Connect at the local auto show; what a nice vehicle. At 6′7″, I love the headroom, which is one reason I have an xB.
It sure seemed like an ideal people mover if a few seats and windows were installed.
Most appealing: it’s a step back from the bloated boxes that minivans have become.
I saw a truckload of these on I-95 the other day. They seem intelligently sized and configured. I’d worry a little about it cannibalizing Ford sales of the tired Ranger as a fleet vehicle for the pesticide-service crowd and similar industries.
I hope Ford does well with this. There’s been a dearth of economical service/fleet vehicles in the USA for a long time.
My wife does craft shows; her inventory is bulky but doesn’t weigh much. It’s possible that we could load both the products and the booth furniture in one of these rigs; I’ll be looking at one.
So…are all the folks that have trashed other vehicles because they don’t cater to every enthusiast whim (Prius anyone) going to feak on this?
;^D
No, I expect not, it would make the absurdity of their behavior to obvious.
Could be a cool little van, hope they do well with it.
Naturally many TTACers will be disappointed that there is no manual transmission option and no diesel. But it’s definitely the right call by Ford.
Curious note: since it’s the standard Ford 2.0 under the hood, there are plenty of options to tune the hell out of it. Frankly I find the idea of a 220 hp turbocharged Transit connect hilarious.
The key-locking hood thing will cause a big pain in the ass for oil changes….
Looks like I found my new apartment.
So shag carpet or wood paneling?
Looks like it is time to rename the Econoline. If the TC costs less to buy and costs less to run than the old faithful Ford van, there doesn’t seem to be much Econo left in that line. :)
Also, I like the concept. But I still think it looks kinda funny.
@gslippy: across the pond they get the Tourneo Connect, with 3 rows of seating and windows all around. I’m not sure that vehicle could compete head-on with “big and bloated” US-market minivans without some serious upgrades, such as side curtain airbags, rear AC, DVD, etc.
oldowl wrote:
Looks as if it could be customized into a family hauler/ camper with a much roomier interior and much safer body structure than variants of the VW Microbus.
I’ve been following this thing since the winter, as part of my search for a wagon/truck/van “thing” as my next mountain bike hauler and camper once the old Volvo wagon finally coughs up a down-payment part like it’s turbo.
Anyways, YES, a more practical alternative for a guy who drive 95% on paved, flat or rolling road, as I’ve had the pickup truck thing swirling in my head, living in a mountain town where that’s all anyone aspires to have out here. But do I *really* need 4×4 so I can have another system to break, 10 inch of clearance, more towing and a bed? Maybe, but really no. Overkill. Plus I’d just have to try and find a tall camper top to enclose the things I want to haul anyways, so why bother? And another wagon? At heart, I see them, at least for my purposes, as really a low-roofed van in sedan spirit, so why not just go Van? Yes! Epiphany reached! If the mountain bikes can’t go in standing up, wheels on, then I’m looking elsewhere, and wagons ain’t gonna cut it for that.
gslippy wrote:
Most appealing was that it is a step back from the bloated boxes that minivans have become.
+1 gslippy, like a step back away from the bloated, fat-assed b*llsh*t appliance fetish that is just diluting the hell out pretty much every vehicle made by any brand for this country today. And it won’t matter if everyone and their brother buy’s them, the TC is too utilitarian and ugly (I love it! f*ck the mainstream!) to ever get that much hipster appeal, until it, itself, becomes “hip” out of that reason alone, which is when all the posers will jump on board, but by then it won’t matter, because something else will be out to steal their attention! And I digress.
The important thing is, it’s here. And I think it’s going to KILL it. And just wait until the Transit itself comes over in 2013. Can’t wait to see what a company like Sportsmobile can do once they get a hold of ‘er!
Cheers
A vehicle where “Diesel and a stick-shift” should be more than just an internet meme.
Oh, look, Europe gets a diesel option.
What the hell, Ford?
So when is it going to get the famous Ford outside punch buttons that unlock the doors? Maybe the solution to your ignition key and hood latch resides there.
Used the diesel Transit and the Sprinter in Europe while stationed there. The Transit was a superior hauler of the most random stuff and the Sprinter was usually our vehicle of choice for moving 15 Soldiers around. Both were much easier to maneuver through city traffic than the Chevy Express vans. If I had a pool cleaning service, this would be my van of choice.
This begs the question, is the Transit eligible for the CFC $4500 credit being the 2.0L will clearly be a better gas miler than the V-10s in the Econoline.
The locking bonnet is Ford EU style. Had to ask some Vauxhall driving Brits how to open the bonnet.
Picture of thee hood latch
Turn key to the left to unlock, slide fingers under the hood, turn key to the right to unlatch and lift.
I sat in a Connect at the local auto show; what a nice vehicle. At 6′7″, I love the headroom, which is one reason I have an xB.
I’m a inch and bit taller than you and I agree wholeheartedly. This is one of the few vehicles I can not only easily fit in, but can wear a hat in as well. The useful space is awesome.
The towing and hauling capacity could be a problem, not because it’s incapable, but because North Americans are conditioned to buy the most they need, rather than the what they’d normally need. For example, this could carry enough for most landscapers, but what I actually see landscapers use are super-duty trucks. I suspect that the Transit will take a little time to get traction, starting at first with electricians and similar repairmen and moving up to carpenters and such as they prove themselves—if Ford has the patience to stick it out for the first few years of rough sales.
The other problem is that stripped F-150s and Econolines are already really, really cheap. The Transit is going to have real trouble unless gas either plateaus and/or it’s sold very cheaply.
I’d like to see a taxi version of this car. I spent a lot of time over the past weekend in and out of Town Cars and Crown Vics (and the occasional Camry or Impala) and I really can’t appreciate the low rear roof and bad seat. Something spacious, basic and rugged would do well.
I drive Connects at work (with the diesel and stick shift, of course.) They’re reasonably quick and agile, but have a fairly large turning circle, compared to RWD vans at least. The driver’s seat is cramped but not too uncomfortable.
The main ergonomic flaw with the Connect is that you can’t open the cargo doors when the engine is running. Why?
Compared to VW Caddy, the Connect is much more reliable, has better steering feel and a more functional interior. However, a VW Transporter van beats the Connect with its hands tied.
I’d almost compare it more visually to a Suzuki Wagon R+, only obviously somewhat larger.
PeregrineFalcon :
A vehicle where “Diesel and a stick-shift” should be more than just an internet meme.
Oh, look, Europe gets a diesel option.
What the hell, Ford?
Here we go. Europe gets diesels and sticks because Europeans buy diesels and sticks. Americans have time and time again not showed a willingness to buy them. Jetta Wagon is a small niche car, and even those are mostly sold with DSGs now.
Let’s start with the stick shift.
Most cars sold in America are autos. The cars sold with manual transmissions are at this point nearly all bought by enthusiasts, with a minuscule number going to people old enough to remember when it was called a ’standard’ transmission who want to save on the cost of the car and who believe (in some cases rightly and in some cases wrongly) that they will save on gas. A small niche of work truck buyers go for manuals, except that this Transit has limited payload ability and no towing.
The Transit Connect will probably be bought 95% for commercial uses. So, you own a business. You have a fleet of vehicles. Do you want to deal with “Oh, Tommy doesn’t drive stick, so he can’t be assigned to the transit?” Maybe you would be okay with that. Most business owners are not ok with that. What about when you’re done with the truck and now trying to sell it to another business? How many are in the market for a car that limits which employees can drive it?
As for a diesel here’s why it’s not in the Transit connect:
(1) See the article re: repair downtime because dealers aren’t familiar with the car. With the 2.0, it’s a cheap and widespread engine. Parts are no problem, and if you’re a mechanic at a Ford dealer you know the 2.0. Now, the 2.0 TDCi? Everyone has to be trained, parts have to be imported, and it’s a nightmare.
When my family owned a diesel Chevy Suburban in the late 1990s, the dealer we bought it from subsequently refused to service it. (Incidentally, a nearby GMC dealer that did a lot of diesel work wasn’t allowed to service it under warranty).
(2) Then there’s the price aspect. Tack on another $1000-$2000 for the TDCi engine, which will need to be imported from an expensive-labor European country. Now the Transit Connect costs the same as an Econoline, and Joe the Plumber is saying “what the hell?”
(2.5) I forgot to mention that Ford’s 4-cylinder engines aren’t federalized. That takes a lot of time and a lot of money. Look at what a Jetta TDI costs versus a Jetta with the gas 2.5.
(3) Diesel vs. Gas of course brings its own debate about fluctuating fuel prices, quality of diesel in the US, availability of diesel in the US, potential mileage gains.
____________________________________________
The more options there are for a car, the more expensive the whole project is. That’s why Ford is trying to cut configurations of the F-150 from 11.5 billion down to a dozen or so.
Ford’s goals for the Transit Connect project were to bring it over quickly and cheaply, and to do their best to make it work for work buyers. This was the way to do it.
By the way, it’s rated at 22 city and 25 highway, which for a “work vehicle” impresses me greatly. No, it won’t haul or tow like a $28,000 Econoline, but it also doesn’t get 12 mpg like an Econoline.
It’ll be interesting to see who buys these.
They’re not going to be offered with rear seats even as an option, correct?
Michael: the non-cargo version has a rear bench. And two windows in the sliding doors. And XLT upgrades just like a Ranger. Me likey, but all I had was the XL cargo version at the dealer.
And Justin did a great job (as always) with the diesel/manual tranny debate. Which really isn’t a debate at all, when you look at the whole picture.
Two things: diesel and stick shift. This could be the perfect family truckster.
I’m not at all interested in a diesel or stick, but I am interested in a more passenger friendly version of this vehicle. I think it is definitely in the cards. …and when it it is.. I want one!
The key-locking hood thing will cause a big pain in the ass for oil changes….
If you own the car yourself, you’ll have the key and either unlock it, or give it to the mechanic. If you own a fleet, it’ll prevent “spontaneous old parts installation syndrome”.
I sat in this vehicle (in multiple configurations) at the NYIAS, and there is a ridiculous amount of room inside.
Personally, I can’t see this *NOT* selling to small business owners once they’re out and about and gain a foothold on our roads… but for those asking for a passenger-friendly variant, you might want to go ahead and forget it, unless you’re customizing it yourself.
I mean… this thing is really bare-bones. I don’t mean that in a BAD way, as that’s how it SHOULD be given its target market (fleet & small business), but those looking for extra comforts had better head elsewhere.
Oh… and by the way, Ford is offering the Transit Connect with OTHER options (not the comfort kind, but the business kind) such as in-vehicle business computers, equipment trackers (i.e. it knows when a wrench is left behind at Mrs. Johnson’s house), etc.
This is going to be a win for Ford in the segment for which it’s intended… but FOR PETE’S SAKE, DON’T EXPECT IT TO BE SOMETHING IT’S NOT!
I’m not at all interested in a diesel or stick, but I am interested in a more passenger friendly version of this vehicle. I think it is definitely in the cards. …and when it it is.. I want one!
That, I think, will be the killer app for this vehicle and I can understand why Ford is nervous to supply it in such a way: the Transit is not a high-margin car, and Ford’s only other high-capacity people haulers are the much-higher-margin Flex, Explorer and Expedition, not to mention two-row cars that also sell for more.
I’ve talked to a few Ford people and, despite customer interest in a three-row Transit, there’s extreme reluctance to cannibalize their more profitable cars and trucks. That the Transit is happening at all is, to some, quite remarkable because it could very well do short-term harm to Ford.
Personally, I love the idea as well. Equipped with three rows of two seats it’s a superior people mover. There’s a lot more useful space than the notional sliver of room in the back of a Mazda5 or Rondo, and it’s a lot less expensive than a Flex or Sienna.
This trucks biggest battle will be convincing the american trade force that everyone dosen’t need to drive a 3/4 ton pick up to do their job. Truck culture here is silly for sure, but very real.
For people clamoring for a passenger-oriented version of this vehicle, realize that this thing is a LONG WAY OFF from being passenger-friendly. It would *not* be a cheap thing for Ford to configure, unless by passenger-friendly, you simply mean “has seats.”
I suspect fleets that can live within its specs will snap these up over full sized vans simply for the fuel savings. I doubt many small business will though, considering how cheaply you can get used cargo vans for.
Looks like the engine wasn’t the only bit they pulled from the Focus parts bins:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/2010/Ford/2010.ford.transit%20connect.20271723-E.jpg
This trucks biggest battle will be convincing the american trade force that everyone dosen’t need to drive a 3/4 ton pick up to do their job. Truck culture here is silly for sure, but very real.
I’ve seen European landscapers do things with a Piaggio Ape that a North American uses a Ram 3500HD Dually for. I’m sure there’s times when the you really do need a Super Duty, but taking some shovels, a lawn mower and a some extra detritus is not one of those times.
Michael Karesh wrote:
They’re not going to be offered with rear seats even as an option, correct?
Christopher wrote:
I’m not at all interested in a diesel or stick, but I am interested in a more passenger friendly version of this vehicle. I think it is definitely in the cards. …and when it it is.. I want one!
Is this maybe close to what you had in mind? The XLT trim. Back row that folds down. And the first one “of color” pictured on Cars.com. $$$ Your welcome. ;-) (I’ve been following inventory since there were only a handful in the States. Heck, it took from May until late June just to get to 50+ over here. Slow trickle, indeed!)
Cheers,
Trip
Manual transmission should have been supplied.
I guess what I am thinking of in term of “passenger friendly” is somewhat similar to something Ford itself already proposed with their Transit Connect Family One concept. (google it!)
I don’t think it would be THAT expensive to design and manufacture, but I do agree with the commentator who says that it would seriously cannibalize sales of Flex, Expedition, and Explorer.
psarhjinian: I’d like to see a taxi version of this car. I spent a lot of time over the past weekend in and out of Town Cars and Crown Vics (and the occasional Camry or Impala) and I really can’t appreciate the low rear roof and bad seat. Something spacious, basic and rugged would do well.
Exactly — an evolution of the traditional London Taxi concept. The Transit Connect could do very well there, though that’s where it definitely should have diesel option.
Stingray :
Manual transmission should have been supplied.
Why?
They have been a big success so far here. Our dealerships fleet department has sold at least 8 so far, and I think a few more are in the works.
psarhjinian :I’ve seen European landscapers do things with a Piaggio Ape that a North American uses a Ram 3500HD Dually for. I’m sure there’s times when the you really do need a Super Duty, but taking some shovels, a lawn mower and a some extra detritus is not one of those times.
Exactly. Now try to convice bubba he dosen’t need the duallie to carry his tool belt to work
psarhjinian :I’ve seen European landscapers do things with a Piaggio Ape that a North American uses a Ram 3500HD Dually for. I’m sure there’s times when the you really do need a Super Duty, but taking some shovels, a lawn mower and a some extra detritus is not one of those times.
Europeans don’t have McMansions on 1/2 acre lots. I once carried 32 bags of mulch in an SUV (not a CUV) and it was a little scary. More to the point, that covered the garden in the front of the house and about 10% of the rear. Too bad I didn’t have a real truck/cargo van at the time.
We do some things in this country for a reason, ya know. :)
You guys are funny. Landscapers and small biz owners know they’ll never use the full capacity of F350’s and Ram 3500’s. They buy them because the Section 179 deduction allows them to take a $25000 tax deduction on any vehicle with a GVWR of 6000 or more lbs. Not to mention it can be taken on used vehicles as well. Find a used dually for $35k, write off $25k, take depreciation on the remainder, and also write off all fuel, R&M, oil changes, tires, vehicle insurance, vehicle tolls, parking, washes, and any other expenses incurred to operate and/or maintain it. Why would you settle for anything less? Buy a used Escalade at the end of December and get the tax benefit before your first payment is due. The Transit Connect should sell well because it also qualifies.
Europeans don’t have McMansions on 1/2 acre lots.
Valid point. When I did do landscaping work, it was light-duty work and soil and sod were delivered by the grower or contractor, not by us, and was dumped on the lot out of a medium-duty equipped with a hoist and dump bed. We never did work with intermediate loads like that.
All I had to worry about was the wheelbarrow. And my spinal discs.
Neither will Americans and Canadians any more in the near future.
Over the last decades out West and in many other parts of America, much work available to landscapers, electricians, plumbers and other such tradesmen have been new builds, often even new subdivisions. Lots of big stuff to haul compared to their colleagues in more settled communities. And often work requiring access before roads are done and driving surfaces put in. Sometimes even requiring hauling one’s own generators and compressors to get anything done. All this, and cheap gas, helped tilt the scale in favor of 4×4 heavier duty haulers, even though they may not make much sense for repairs and the occasional improvement of a few flats in London.
If that facet of our recently deflated credit bubble does not come back for a few decades, smaller Eurostyle haulers may have a brighter future here as well, especially if gas plateaus much higher.
As for diesels, they make more sense on the high fuel cost roundabout continent than here. 30-10-30-10-30…. driving ad infinitum rewards luggable, flexible engines, even if their 0-60 time is on the order of minutes. In stop sign and stoplight America, where 0-40-0-40… is more common, and gas prices allow for the inefficiencies of autos, the sprightlier top end of gas engines makes more sense. But at least the new (2008+ I believe) euro diesels don’t flat out stink anymore, the way they used to.
BDB : Neither will Americans and Canadians any more in the near future.
Seriously? What’s already built isn’t gonna be demolished because the credit market took a huge dump on North America.
I learned my lesson, but you can expect more self-made McMansionaires to do just that: grab their own mulch to save a few bucks every spring. Or get their ignorant kids to do it. And until that loophole stuki mentioned closes, any business owner can have an Escalade EXT for every day use…and the occasional mulch trip with the family.
Having helped to launch this back in the UK before coming to the US, I can testify that this is a great vehicle for any small business owner or even a larger fleet owner.
Couple of things to point out.
1. The locking bonnet (or hood if you will) is actually a security feature. This way, if someone breaks the glass and gets in to the vehicle, they cannot open the hood (or bonnet if you will) and hot wire the car and steal it. Fleets in the UK were very appreciative of the feature.
2. Diesel and Manual – lets remember the core audience here shall we. Small business owners in and around cities. They don’t want manual transmissions at all so that was a no brainer. I will leave Justin’s excellent Diesel argument as it is – he is far more knowledgeable than I on the subject.
No, but they’ll turn into the new ghettos. And the new inhabitants aren’t really going to care about landscaping. They might need a truck for meth-making supplies, though. Don’t laugh, it is already happening in the fringe exurbs. Google “Magnolia Green” and “Virginia”.
http://styleweekly.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=6F22F5F3EBEC4E698598EDB38230E889
Middle class families of the future will move back into the smaller, 1950s/60s-style inner suburbs, close the city with 1/4 acre lots or less.
jamie1 : but isn’t the ignition circuit (or a large part of it) in the passenger cabin? Are you sure a thief cannot hot wire it like any other car?
BDB : No, but they’ll turn into the new ghettos. And the new inhabitants aren’t really going to care about landscaping. They might need a truck for meth-making supplies, though.
While hilarious and kinda right, I’d venture that the McMansion won’t drop hard enough to be considered ghetto. Then again, I speak since Houston is doing fairly well these days…
Using this as a family vehicle is not a good idea. It’s got a live rear axle. The Ford Toreno Connect, the Transit Connect’s passenger orientated cousin is generally used as a taxi for work crews here in Europe. I’ve never seen one used as a family vehicle.
When i worked in landscaping in the States those HD trucks towed bobcats and operated as snowplows in the winter. So perhaps landscapers jumping into the little Ford anytime soon.
The target market would in my mind be fleets, small business owners and tradesmen. This seems to be exactly who Ford are going for.