Smart consumers know there are plenty of ways to save money on one’s chosen hobby while preserving enjoyment and/or utility. A Gibson Les Paul Studio is very nearly as good a guitar as a Les Paul Standard, and it costs half as much. The Allen-Edmonds MacNeil uses the same Horween shell cordovan as the Alden Long Wing and can often be had for up to a hundred dollars less. The Omega Speedmaster does everything a Rolex Daytona does except create the false impression that one has won an iconic American race. With that said, here’s eight thousand dollars that you would be a fool to “save”: the price gap between the Dodge Challenger R/T Classic and the Challenger SRT-8.
It’s a chalk-and-cheese situation. The SRT-8 is a take-no-prisoners street superstar that acquits itself reasonably well on a road course. The R/T Classic has even more street appeal, at a lower price. But it completely sacrifices even a smidgen of fast-road or racetrack ability. It doesn’t go, not like it should. It doesn’t turn. And it sure as hell doesn’t stop. If you don’t care about any of that stuff, feel free to buy one. If you do, read on.
I took the Challenger to Summit Point’s “Main” road course for a two-day teaching engagement. It’s common for me to use my street car to demonstrate certain aspects of racetrack driving to my students, often with three passengers in the vehicle. I’ve used many different cars for this purpose, from my brace of Volkswagen Phaetons to a borrowed Mitsubishi Evolution. But the Challenger was the first one I’ve tried where the basic dynamic package simply is not up to the task of taking people around a racetrack.
Start with the brakes—because you won’t stop with them. Two laps is one too many for the feeble binders. Blame the fantastic-looking twenty-inch Torq-Thrust-style wheels. They’re simply too big and heavy to be effectively dealt with by cheap sliding-caliper stoppers. The supplied Eagle RS-A tires are simply the worst modern tires I’ve ever driven on a racetrack. That’s astounding, given the fact that Goodyear makes some of the best max-performance street rubber money can buy.
The Dodge Challenger’s R/T Track Pack Classic’s suspension appears to combine stiff swaybars and soft springs in the classic Herb Adams style. Th result: persistent, unshakable understeer in all situations. The Challenger’s 376-horsepower HEMI quickly heat-soaks during fast laps. It’s very hard to get this car sideways; I was unable to break the rear tires loose, even when I applied considerable lateral load to the old girl’s chassis. I say this having long ago mastered the art of putting the old Mercedes W140 S-Klasse doorhandle-to-oncoming-traffic. [Ed: metaphorically speaking.]
I was so disappointed in the R/T’s track ability that I borrowed a 19911.6-liter Miata on Falken Azenis tires and staged a two-car race with a fellow NASA instructor and Time Trial competitor. Could the Challenger pass the Miata in a series of six single-lap “battles”? The Internet’s conventional wisdom: the little Mazda would handily hold off the fat, slouchy Dodge. In the real world, I murdered the Miata. I blasted by the Elan-like roadster every time in the straight between Turns Three and Four, before trail-braking and grinding the sidewalls all the way down the entrance to Four.
So don’t get it twisted. The Dodge Challenger’s R/T Track Pack Classic is still pretty quick in absolute terms. But it requires the patience of Job to steer around a road course without burning the brakes or overheating the tires. It’s work. This kind of thing is supposed to be fun. Off the track, however, the fun returns in spades.
The R/T “gets mad house on the boulevard” according to more than one spectator; it’s probably one of the easiest ways to become a local celebrity in any small town. Seated behind that long hood, with your friends lounging in the spacious interior, listening to the more-than-decent sound system, pistol-gripping the six-speed transmission through solid-sounding shifts . . . it’s a wonderful, thoroughly vintage, thoroughly American experience. On the track, the R/T is easy prey for a BMW 335i, but on Main Street the Bimmer might as well be invisible in the Challenger’s presence.
The new 2010 Ford Mustang is a better product than this big Mopar in every possible way. The new Chevrolet Camaro isn’t bad either. But neither of those smaller ponycars can match the Challenger as a boulevard cruiser. In this application, the big barge’s ungainliness isn’t a problem, the motor is responsive enough, and the wicked four-headlight face looks like a million bucks. My long trip back from Summit Point to Ohio was thoroughly relaxing. When I arrived in the early morning, the pretty girl at Tim Horton’s wanted to know all about the car. “I love it!” she squealed. “Trust me,” I replied, “you’d love the SRT-8 more.” So would you.
70 Comments on “Review: 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T Track Pack “Classic”...”
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Let me be the first to say this car is way too heavy.
I did that on another Discussion Board and some fan-boy actually wished that I would be denied re-entry into the US.
The supplied Eagle RS-A tires are simply the worst modern tires I’ve ever driven on a racetrack. That’s astounding, given the fact that Goodyear makes some of the best max-performance street rubber money can buy
They put RS-As on a car that is supposed to be a for a racetrack? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Those are shitty OE tires that they usually throw on econoboxes
Well, paris-dakar, you’re obviously an anti-American hater if you think there is something, ANYTHING, wrong with an American car. Get the hell out of my country!
It’s funny that the SRT8 has the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires. They should put those tires on this model, too.
Well, paris-dakar, you’re obviously an anti-American hater if you think there is something, ANYTHING, wrong with an American car. Get the hell out of my country!
This is probably the best 4200lb $40K Coupe on the market to take to a Track Day.
I’m just not sure who’s asking for that.
And I hate all of these retro-styled, 4-Door based niche vehicles with a passion. The VW Beetle, the Toyota FJ Cruiser, this – in every case the Sedan they’re based off of are better vehicles and capable of similar performance.
Can’t say the looks of this car do much for me, but it’s clearly a hit for many people. Too bad it’s not nearly as good at the track, since the price difference is considerable. And it would be nice to avoid the SRT’s GG tax.
But how does the RT avoid the GGT? The automatic RT uses cylinder deactivation to bump the MPG, but usually cylinder deactivation can’t be paired with the manual. Have the managed this with the RT? The EPA numbers suggest they have.
As I understand it, the Challenger is on the LY platform, which is the next generation of the LX. Anyone aware of the differences between the two?
The LXs have required an average number of repairs, based on TrueDelta’s Car Reliability Survey. I’d expect the Challenger to do about the same, unless the differences between the LX and LY are larger than I realize.
http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php
Paris-daker: funny!
I;m with Michael on the looks. Too heavy and bloated. As pony cars go, the mustang and Camaro look much better, in my opinion.
The challenger has lots of presence, but it’s bad presence, like the obese sweaty guy sitting next to you on the plane.
I blasted by the Elan-like roadster every time in the straight between Turns Three and Four, before trail-braking and grinding the sidewalls all the way down the entrance to Four.
Are these corner numbers correct? Trail braking into 4 at Summit Point is usually not required, full throttle and a small prayer is more typical. Perhaps you mean turn 5, but that will be sure to toast the Dodge’s brakes!
@ Michael Karesh:
The Challenger is on the LC platform.
But it requires the patience of Job to steer around a road course without burning the brakes or overheating the tires. It’s work. This kind of thing is supposed to be fun. Off the track, however, the fun returns in spades.
So, kind of like the original Challenger, huh?
I got a bit of time in the “normal” R/T recently. It’s a pretty comfortable car, but I’m kind of at a loss as to the appeal. It’s not that nice inside, and it looks pretty goofy from the outside.** I’d be hard-pressed to recommend it over the (better looking, more comfortable, just as capable) 300C.
** I don’t mind retro, but it’s tricky to combine modern sensibilities with a retro look. BMW/Mini and Ford manage this very well; GM (Camaro) and VW (Beetle) do it less well. Chrysler has managed to take the worst of a modern design (high beltline, smoothed flanks) and combine it with the cheesy details and fat-guy-on-tippy-toes stance of a retro car. It’s striking, but damn is it ever badly proportioned.
It seems to me that this car shows the dysfunction in Chrysler best. Even when they get it right (in person, it is easily the best looking of the three mucle cars), they still get it wrong (the v-6 and, apparently, the R/T are not up to snuff). The result? What should be a home run, instead gets murdered in sales by the Mustang. Admittedly, the economy and the bankruptcy play a part, but those affect GM and the Camaro is selling well. If there ever was a company that needed their entrenched management blown up, it is Chrysler. I hope Fiat does just that, but am not optimistic.
Well, as I own one of these (not a Classic but a Hemi Orange 6-speed), this review is about spot-on. Haven’t had her on the track yet but….it is heavy. And handling could be considerably better (as well as braking). My biggest disappointment after 8 months of ownership is not the horsepower – I am fine with that. I wish that Dodge packaged an upgraded “track pack” with the SRT’s suspension and Brembo brakes.
I did that on another Discussion Board and some fan-boy actually wished that I would be denied re-entry into the US.
Damn you, you Senegalese Parisian! How dare you criticise our fine automobiles!
I would like to see this car try to run the Paris-Dakar rally. It would be entertaining. Right up until it got stuck somewhere.
Well, OK, maybe not.
That price is incredible. $39,000 is a lot to pay for a car. At least it looks pretty though.
Funny reviews of the RS-A at Tirerack.com
Karesh:
The Challenger’s platform is LC, not LY. The LC is simply a shortened version of the LX, that’s all (and that’s why this car is so heavy!). Really, outside of exterior design Chrysler spent very, very little time and money on bringing out the Challenger. They could have spent a lot more time on weight reduction, but I think they made the right choice not to in the end.
The LC would also be the platform for any hypothetical Chrysler 200.
As for the upcoming LY, the only things Chrysler has said are better aerodynamics and lighter weight.
As I understand it, the Challenger is on the LY platform, which is the next generation of the LX. Anyone aware of the differences between the two?
This is sort of old information, but I think LY is a stretched and mildly decontented LX, while LC (the Challenger) is a shortened and decontented LX.
Did they ever make a stretched 300?
Performance aside, the Challenger styling goes far beyond retro; it slavishly copies the original.
Nit: The 2010 Ford Mustang may be a better product, but it isn’t new.
+1 on the Eagle RS-As – one of the worst tires on the market and depressingly common as OEMs even from car makers that should know better.
As for the Challenger – beyond the retro 70s good looks I fail to see the attraction. It’s too soft, too heavy and has a cheap interior that seems to have been made from recycled Chinese toys.
Thanks for the corrections on LY vs. LC. I’m probably recalling speculation from before the car was launched.
They put RS-As on a car that is supposed to be a for a racetrack? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
V_S: Agreed. A set of Cooper’s would’ve been better. And why do we have to have 20″ dubs on all our cars now? 18s would’ve been plenty for this beast.
Nit: The 2010 Ford Mustang may be a better product, but it isn’t new.
RE: spyspeed. What’s not new about the ‘10 Mustang? It rides on the ‘05 platform and utilizes the same engine lineup, but that’s pretty standard for the Stang. Ex; The 1994 SN-95 carried over the 5.0L until the Modular 4.6L was installed in 1996; but was substantially different from the ‘87-93 Fox bodies.
This thing doesn’t do anything for me. It looks cartoonish. But I’m in the demo so why don’t I like this?
If I were to choose from one of the three I’d pick the Mustang GT. In person it seems more right sized. Out of anything and everything available I’d get a previous generation M3 with the lowest possible miles I can or a Genesis Coupe 3.8 and pocket the $10k left over.
$40k is way to much for the kind of car that it is.
In these times, I don’t think there’s much overlap between the set of people who love this car and those that can afford it
The person who doesn’t like this car is the problem not the car.
yes 40 grand is too much but not for those who can afford.
Mr. Karesh:
According to Allpar, the LX will be the revised the 300/Charge due next year. Currently it’s:
LX Body – 2004-2010 (?): Dodge Charger, Dodge Magnum (through 2007), Chrysler 300/300C all shared a 120” wheelbase. Look for the second-generation to be code-named LY, and don’t laugh.
LC body – 2008-?: Dodge Challenger: short-wheelbase version of the Dodge Charger.
—-
As for the upcoming LY:
“While the LX were heavily influenced by Mercedes’ E-Class design, Chrysler should have more latitude in building the LY. That means:
Far better interiors (journalists praised early drafts)
Lighter weights, perhaps
Lower build costs
Higher gas mileage
New versions of the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger will appear in calendar-year 2010, and will be made exclusively in Brampton, including models for sale in Europe. The revised Challenger may or may not lag the others. There has been no hint of a luxury version yet, but (speculation) it is possible that the 300 will be on a longer wheelbase than the Charger.”
When Chrysler was still Dumbler’s bitch; “The LY was to be used as the basis for three Mercedes classes: E, CLS, and R (starting in 2010-2012).”
Mr. Baruth,
With the $8,000 saved, I would think that an enterprising pistonhead would be able to secure for himself proper brakes and tires, as well as any other suspension refinements necessary and STILL come out ahead on the purchase of an SRT8. Besides, with a car like that who wants to settle for factory equipment?
psarhjinian :
So, kind of like the original Challenger, huh?
Same conclusion I came to.
But the $8000 saved would be enough to buy better brakes and rubber right?
Wonder how the SRT-8 stacks up against the Mustang (the Track Pack GT not the Shelby 500).
Since I have no interest in going to a track, I might consider this. It can be had with a sunroof, unlike the mustang, and the camaro has a weird looking face, like its had too many face and eye lifts. The Dodge is a large car, but I suppose thats not bad, its still alot smaller than alot of other cars. And usable back seats could come in handy.
It sure is beautiful, tho, one of the few cars that actually stops me in my tracks. Love the orange with black highlights.
I can afford this car, and I DO NOT WANT IT.
There are a million better cars in the 40k range.
BEAT :
July 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
The person who doesn’t like this car is the problem not the car.
yes 40 grand is too much but not for those who can afford.
I’m surprised you like this car. It’s heavy and it’s a tank(A reason you’ve mentioned hating Nissans in the past). Also for the same price you could get an EVO which would kill this car around a track.
@Morea:
Using this map:
http://www.stangler.com/motorsports/maps/summitpointmain.gif
I had to tap the brakes in the area marked “Chute” after 4.
The other cars I drove that day – the 1.6 Miata, a 300whp Evo 9, and a Cayman S – were, in fact, flat from the exit of 3 to the entrance of 5.
As for whether the $8K would get you back on track, the SRT-8 has at least the following advantages over the R/T classic:
* Bilstein monotubes and revised springs, let’s call that a $1500 package
* Front Brembo brakes, let’s call that $1600 or so
* Different sways, $400 from Hotchkis
* Lightweight wheels and F1 Supercar tires, that would be a $3500 upgrade or thereabouts
That’s $7K right there and we haven’t even considered the fact that the SRT-8 has a 6.1-liter HEMI instead of the 5.7, with 425hp playing 376. Plus it’s all under warranty, plus you will get some of that price difference back when you sell the car.
Well, if the brakes can’t make it past lap one with RS-A’s, it’s probably a good thing they didn’t put stickier rubber on there. But then again, I always thought mega sized rims existed to allow for mega sized discs…
And this things costs are (at least pre discounts) in the vicinity of a 135, right?
This is one of the very few cars that looks better in pictures than in person. In person it is a massive, over-bloated beast to behold.
Yes I know but this car is a Muscle car with bigger body and engine. It is acceptable to be heavier.
Yes the Evo’s are faster on turns not on quarter mile race. This car will sack an Evo on drag race. I bought my Lancer because it was built and design to be tuned. It is catered to kids and adults who love tuning cars.
I think this car was built for American car tuners who loved to twik Americana.
BEAT: “Yes the Evo’s are faster on turns not on quarter mile race. This car will sack an Evo on drag race.”
You’ve got it backwards.
R/T 0-60: 5.9 seconds
R/T 1/4 Mile: 14.1 @ 100.8 mph
Evo X GSR 0-60: 4.9 seconds
Evo X 1/4 Mile: 13.6 @ 101.3 mph
EDIT: Numbers are from Edmunds Inside Line.
really? the show that I watched on Speed channel was a between Tuned Evo 9 and a tuned Challenger.
The Evo got 14.0 flat compared to the Challenger on 10.0 flat with a choker.
The show was about betting on tuned cars on quarter mile. I forgot the name of the show
I have gotten to spend some time with all three muscle cars (including the 2010 Mustang) and I think there is plenty to recommend the Challenger over the other two.
Many things stand out that you rarely ever see in print but can appreciate if you had to have one day-to-day.
None of the cars really has a “nice” interior but that’s not why people buy them. You can’t really split them over materials, all three are made out of the same hard plastic and shiny leather. What differentiates them most is the features and design.
The Challenger is the most modern inside. The gauges are modern, clear and easy to see (Mustang and Camaro no). The controls on the steering wheel are the most simple and easiest to use without reading the manual. It’s wheel adjusts for reach and rake (the Mustang does not). The seats are big and firm with nice bolsters (the Mustangs seats squishy with no bolsters, the Camaro is somewhere inbetween). It’s also easy to see out of the Challenger (visibility in all directions is a real issue in the Camaro, it has the shortest windshield I’ve ever seen aside from a tank).
The Challenger is also the most practical for daily use. It has the best ride and the most room inside. Two real adults will fit in the backseat in reasonable comfort. The trunk is huge and has a normal opening (the Camaro has a weird opening that limits it’s use). The Challenger’s trunk will swallow plenty of cargo.
It may also be the easiest of the three to drive. It’s big, but it’s not much bigger than the Camaro. The Camaro’s greenhouse makes it difficult to get a sense of where the corners of the car are. The Mustang feels nervous and twitchy on even the smoothest pavement (I had a non-track pack too). The Challenger in comparison glides across the pavement and performs very well. Jack is right, it is a very American car and it’s a very good one.
Build quality also seems to be very good on each Challenger I’ve seen in person. Tight seams inside and out. The only detail off is the trunk lid is slightly misaligned on the sides of a few I’ve seen. Still not as bad as the huge gap 2010 Mustangs have on their hatch that makes it look like they’re cracked open when shut.
The Challenger also isn’t the biggest seller of the three, but nothing is more popular with people when you roll up in it. It makes the Mustang (and virtually everything else) invisible in comparison. It will also be the most unique of the three when it (and Chrysler) disappear.
Make mine a black SRT8, six-speed.
“My long trip back from Summit Point to Ohio was thoroughly relaxing. When I arrived in the early morning, the pretty girl at Tim Horton’s wanted to know all about the car.”
Okay, so you get to drive some wicked cars around a racetrack as part of a dream teaching job; that’s cool.
You own a “stable of Phaetons”; that’s cool.
You’ve managed to avoid death on the freeway at 140MPH; that’s cool.
You partake of Tim Horton’s; that’s the coolest, ’cause you’re part-Canadian now. All I need to hear next is that you know what the Charlestown Chiefs are!
@Morea:
Using this map:
http://www.stangler.com/motorsports/maps/summitpointmain.gif
I had to tap the brakes in the area marked “Chute” after 4.
The other cars I drove that day – the 1.6 Miata, a 300whp Evo 9, and a Cayman S – were, in fact, flat from the exit of 3 to the entrance of 5.
Thanks Jack. This tells me all I need to know about the chassis and the handling!
BEAT, there’s no way a properly tuned Evo 9 is going to go through the quarter mile SLOWER than a stock Evo 9. Again according to Edmunds, a 2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX runs through the quarter mile in 13.3 seconds at 103 mph.
It doesn’t make sense to compare tuned cars. If you do, you need to also take into account how much money was spent tuning said cars — for example, I could show you a 7 second Evo. It’s irrelevant, though, just like your 10 second Challenger.
@Monty: I can recite most of that movie verbatim. I saw it for the first time on network TV back in the late Seventies. Couldn’t figure out why my father was laughing so hard.
But one thing stands out:
“I’M LISTENING TO THE F***IN SONG!”
As for whether the $8K would get you back on track, the SRT-8 has at least the following advantages over the R/T classic:
* Bilstein monotubes and revised springs, let’s call that a $1500 package
* Front Brembo brakes, let’s call that $1600 or so
* Different sways, $400 from Hotchkis
* Lightweight wheels and F1 Supercar tires, that would be a $3500 upgrade or thereabouts
First thing I thought when I read this is ‘How much to retrofit it to a 2yo Charger SRT8?’
Although I wouldn’t be surprised if there are still 2009 Charger SRT8s still sitting on the lots…
The warranty is nice, but tracking a car I’m making payments on sounds even worse than off-roading a truck I’m making payments on.
Well, of course you beat the Miata. Someone fitted the poor thing with a cruise ship engine.
This puppy has presence, big time. It is hobbled by excess weight and a marginal interior. The suspension and tires are overworked for serious duty. As a cruiser, this is da bomb, if you like this type of car. If an Evo is in your mind, or track times, this is not your ride, at least as delivered.
So, what is a retro enthusiast to do? Well, if you have some extra money, the aftermarket is ready to help you. First step, get some real rubber. Goodyear and Michelin max performance summer tires should do nicely. Next, the brakes. I did not research what is available, but if I could find oversized brakes for my PGT, they must be available for the Challenger. Dump the stock springs and dampers, upgrade the sway bars, replace the bushings with performance items…You will dramatically improve the handling of the beast. I think the HEMI is fine out of the box, but that too, can be worked for a lot more power.
That Chrysler (Daimler) interior will take a lot more effort to fix. And upholstery shop can help enormously, but what to do with the dash…
Why do we even care about this trailer park queen? Isn’t it bad enough that there are a few thousand mullet wearing retards driving these things on the road. Oops, I forgot, most of the owners mullets fell out a couple of decades ago. Do we have to read about what pieces of crap they are to boot? Ugh. Again, ugh.
Re: Charlestown Chiefs.
I’m originally from Johnstown, PA; and my sister was dating the team’s equipment manager when the movie was being shot. The bartender in all those scenes was my landlord.
I still watch it over and over, just to remember the town before the ‘77 flood hit and suddenly it was “All the Right Moves” time.
Then there’s the first time I watched it with my current wife – she lived in Montreal for 25 years with her first husband. From her, I found out a whole ‘nother movie, in Quebecois French, that I had no idea was there.
Oh yeah, except for the finale, all those stories and subplots are true. Nancy Dowd didn’t write a script, she just put together all of hubby Ned’s war stories.
And the Johnstown Dodge dealer, just before they yanked his franchise, grabbed himself a Challenger R/T – said he wanted something to remember the old days by.
Another great entertaining and informative review Jack!
Thanx
psarhjinian :
July 29th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Did they ever make a stretched 300?
Yep, they did. It was called the executive edition or something like that.
Jack –
I think you’re spot on with this review…I drove a SRT-8, and while I wasn’t able to really open it up (the dealer practically needed a note from Pope before he let me drive the thing), you notice right away that handling isn’t this car’s forte, to put it mildly.
To put it not mildly: my Focus handles better.
It’s definitely a “boulevardier,” but damned if I have found a much better one that doesn’t cost six figures.
What this car desperately needs is the same thing its 300/Daytona cousins need – a first class interior.
Monty :
July 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
You partake of Tim Horton’s; that’s the coolest, ’cause you’re part-Canadian now. All I need to hear next is that you know what the Charlestown Chiefs are!
Ogelthorpe?
I grew up watching the St. Louis Blues (unfortunately), so I learned “O, Canada” after my 1,000th game or so. This came in handy here in Denver in ‘95, the first year the Nords / Avalanche played here – a local radio station gave away a six-game package of tickets for the person who displayed the most hockey knowledge on air. I sang “O, Canada” and they were blown away.
And don’t they have Tim Hortons in Buffalo?
OK, here’s my two-part Challenger track strategy:
1) Install a trailer hitch
2) Tow the real track day car behind it
The Challenger reminds me a lot of the ‘69 Mercury Marauder X100. Both were big-engined and heavy cars with a cool look. Neither was really a best-of-breed vehicle, or gave the driver much dynamic satisfaction, but they still both offer(ed) a fun time on the street.