And Hyundai use GEMA engine.
http://www.gemaengine.com/
Mitsubishi and Chryler, Hyundai&Kia share same engine.
so, according to your logic, Mitsubishi and Chryler are only modern manufacturers whose engines still routinely crap out before 100K.…

Not really relevant, and not because I don’t put much stock in CR. My concern is long term reliability, not the first six or seven years. Her Sonata was pretty reliable for much of its life to date and that is reflected in the CR surveys. Its the next 100,000 (or at least 50,000) that concerns me. The underhood materials are not aging well and I have no confidence that there will not be numerous repairs for all that cracking/ splitting plastic. I’d imagine vacuum leaks, cooling system parts and the like are all going to be trouble as more time goes by. And all that is on top of the time bomb transmission. I never had this kind of deterioration on any car, including some of my “CR black dot specials.”

I have to say that I agree with onerareviper. Even my old ’80’s mopar seemed to age much better, and that one cracked 250K. Hyundais, at least from the generation I am dealing with, seem to have traded some real longevity for price. For all those who use the “100k and sell” metric, it does not matter much other than poor resale. I expect more life out of my car. And judging what an Accord with 150K on it sells for, so do others.

In the ‘Real World’ people are paying $35-$36K for these, if not less. As for the DTS, around $40K. New 2009 models. Now I’m not saying I’d buy these cars (new) even at those prices, merely pointing out what people really pay (less than invoice + huge incentives). IMHO, these cars start to make more sense when they are a year or two old. I’d take a year old/low mile Buick Super/Caddy DTS over the typical new 20-27K family sedan every time. I’m looking at you Accord/Camry.

I’m talking about the car in general, not just the engine. The Korean’s are not known for lasting ‘long-time’, regardless of what CR says (which was probably referring to short-term ownership reliability). I’m not saying they are junk, I’m merely stating the equivalent Honda/Toyota has a FAR longer shelf life. You don’t honestly believe an Elantra has the same shelf life as a Civic? Or a Sonota the same shelf life as an Accord? Do you? There’s a reason high mileage Japanese rides still pull a pretty penny in the used market.

Maybe you’re confused. I’m talking about the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. This is non-tranferable. The bumper-to-bumper is, just like any other make. The following explains in detail (from a dealer, I believe)..

Let’s just take a second to note that Hyundai’s 10-year/100,000-mile warranty is for powertrain coverage – meaning the engine, transmission and related components. A powertrain warranty is different than your basic bumper-to-bumper warranty.

That said, Hyundai’s 100,000-mile powertrain warranty is non-transferable to used-car owners; it’s only applicable to the original owner. Bummer, right? Once the car leaves the original purchaser, the second and subsequent owners have a five-year/60,000-mile — from the manufacturing date — warranty.

Hyundai’s bumper-to-bumper coverage is transferable when the car swaps owners. It’s good for five years/60,000 miles.

BTW – As for the Germans, I agree, they often require lots of money to maintain. No argument there…

Still, for $45k you’re in the territory of some serious machinery:
Audi A6
BMW 5
Lexus GS
Benz E (not quite but getting close)

The Buick is a plain stodgy sedan (even the old folks are buying Avalons instead of Buicks now). I can buy a stodgy plain car for $20k. For my $45k, I want something with a name and some flash. Any car on my list will do. There is no Buick on that list.

Not so. I bought my Azera used and the warrenty applied to it just as it did to the original owner.

The reason I now own a Genesis is that my 3 Hyundais have been better than any of the “big name” brands that I have owned in the past. On 3 Hyundai vehicles and many thousands of miles, the only glitches were a failed windshield-washer pump and a failed door lock actuator. All ficed under warrenty. Quite different than my Mercedes which had a list of problems as long as my arm.

In 2003, According to Consumer Reports, Hyundai’s reliability rankings tied Hondas.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-11-cr-picks_x.htm

And Hyundai use GEMA engine.
http://www.gemaengine.com/
Mitsubishi and Chryler, Hyundai&Kia share same engine.
so, according to your logic, Mitsubishi and Chryler are only modern manufacturers whose engines still routinely crap out before 100K.

There’s a reason Kia’s and Hyundai’s are sooooo cheap in the used market. Because you’re right… They don’t last 150,000++++ miles like a Honda Civic or yes, Buick (especially the 3.8L motor). At least that is what history has shown (time will tell with the Genesis)… Unless you want to spend major loot, which becomes senseless because this cost usually exceeds the value of the vehicle.

As for the 100K warranty, SMOKE AND MIRRORS. This is only valid to the original owner (from what I remember), which normally has moved on well before this number.

* well, there’s also Porsche……

I’m not totally convinced about Hyundai’s long term reliability. Wife’s friend has the previous generation Sonata. She bought it expressly for the warranty. Engine blew a head gasket at about 85K. Hyundai didn’t try to pull a GM; they fixed the car under warranty. Now, at 95K, the trans fluid is beginning to burn. I told her to expect a failure in the near future. If I could kill the trans w/o damaging other parts of the car, I would (any ideas? LOL) I have to say a lot of the underhood parts are not aging gracefully.
A lot of the plastic parts are splitting/cracking. The rubber parts are getting brittle. The car was a good value without a doubt. But now it needs struts, hoses, belts, all fluids changed, tires soon. That’s a $2k list, easy. Add in a trans job ($2000?) and your over $4000. The car is not worth the repairs. And this was a car maintained at the stealership. I am used to getting double this mileage out of my rides….

The engine is fine, long term reliability issues aside. The 4-spd transaxle is the problem: if Buick had access to a 7-spd and didn’t mess with the Northstar’s decent throttle response (esp compared to a Benz) and fat power band, it’d have serious scoot off the line and barrel down the freeway even better than a Benz.

(PS: that 7-spd even pushes a 3.0L Benz unbelievably hard from a standstill to over triple digit speeds. So it’s not all about HP anymore.)

That’s funny! I’m on my 3rd Hyundai, each one better than the last and each one with a 100,000 mile warranty that was never needed. My Hyundais have been better than my BMW, my Acura, my Buick, and most of all my Mercedes which was an absolute piece of crap.

I expect many thousands of trouble=free miles from my Genesis 4.6.

* Audi AG: 2.0L TFSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (A4 Avant)
* BMW AG: 3.0L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (135i Coupe)
* BMW AG: 3.0L DOHC I-6 Turbodiesel (335d)
* Chrysler LLC: 5.7L Hemi OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram/Challenger R/T)
* Ford Motor Co.: 2.5L DOHC I-4 HEV (Escape Hybrid)
* General Motors Corp.: 3.6L DOHC V-6 (Cadillac CTS)
* Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe)
* Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd.: 4.6L DOHC V-8 (Genesis)
* Toyota Motor Corp.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)
* Volkswagen AG: 2.0L SOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Jetta TDI)

Nissan’s VQ is no longer on the list.

Hyundai and Kia are the only* modern manufacturers whose engines still routinely crap out before 100K.

—————–
too bad. Hyundai offer america longest warranty. if your claim is true, then, they are already bankrupt??

And Hyundai use GEMA engine.
http://www.gemaengine.com/
Mitsubishi and Chryler, Hyundai&Kia share same engine.
so, according to your logic, Mitsubishi and Chryler are only modern manufacturers whose engines still routinely crap out before 100K.

However, I did find some instrumented tests on it and the E350. Car and Driver got 6.9 secs 0-60 on the Lucerne with the old engine, and 6.7 on the E350. With the more powerful engine, the Super should not get embarassed, at the very least.

FreedMike : Umm…”mom and dad’s new ride” has a 7-speed auto and about 20 hp less. I suspect the MB will absolutely kill the 4-spd Lucerne. But I do agree with you on the GM China Park Avenue. Funny how things work out, and Buick USA gets screwed.

ajla : agreed on the Bonnie. Except when I opened the door and saw the interior. Such a shame, but that car really had to die.

Exactly, that’s why people buy Avalons.

I always thought that had more to do with poor eyesight…

The REAL Lucerne should be the Chinese market Park Avenue, which is a platform-mate with the Pontiac G8. Restyle that in the idiom of the new LaCrosse, sell it for 40 grand, and you’ve got an epic winner.

http://www.buick.com.cn/ParkAvenue/wallpaper.aspx

I’ll just mention again that my parents just picked up a brand new outgoing-model-year 2009 Mercedes E350 for just under $45k. Now how does that Buick seem?

Considering that mom and dad’s new ride gives up about 100 HP to the Buick, I think it’s going to seem awfully slow…

Odds are strong that the Genesis’ V-8 will be running strong many miles after the expensive and temperamental Northstar spills its oil all over the ground.

I’m curious as to the source of your confidence. Hyundai and Kia are the only* modern manufacturers whose engines still routinely crap out before 100K.

* well, there’s also Porsche…

Yep the Bonneville GXP had the 4.6L Northstar in 2004 and 2005. Unfortunately for Pontiac, the 300C came out at the same time.

In my super-biased opinion I thought it was a cool car. I might own one if I didn’t have Northstar durability worries.

Much as I like Loti and cars that can carve and handle, there’s something to be said for a car that won’t disturb your drink at 80mph.

———————————————–

Exactly, that’s why people buy Avalons.

GM’s Supercharged 3.8L V6 is, and has always been, superior to the Northstar.

I have seen those engines go north of 300k and provide fuel economy in the low 30’s on the highway. On a full sized vehicle that’s just amazing. The horsepower difference is only about 10% between that and the Northstar.

The Northstar really is an amazing piece of technology. But GM did not do a good job with a multitude of design issues that limited it’s long-term durability. It’s extremely rare to see one of these engines hit north of 200k… unless it’s in an Aurora. I can’t explain this because the Aurora actually has a lower level of lubrication to compensate for it’s smaller size (4.0L vs. 4.6L).

If GM made these models last to the 300k to 400k range they would be the official cars of the remarketing business. As it is though, most folks that do heavy traveling stick to Ford’s with the 4.6L and GM models with the 3.8L. The Toyota Avalon also does very well in my neck of the woods.

———————-
willbodine : Somehow, that grill reminds me of the South Park kids when they smile.

Absolutely brilliant, I wish I thought of that.

———————-
John Horner : Speaking of branding: Northstar was once reserved for a lineup of Cadillac-only technologies. The engine was in theory buy one of the Northstar goodies. Now they put a Northstar label under the hood of a Buick?

And while it also went into the Aurora, GM was savvy enough to lower the displacement to give Caddy the necessary edge.

IIRC, the last few years of the Pontiac Bonneville (platform mate to the Aurora, Park Ave, DeVille???) also had the same Northstar V8.

———————-
Austin Greene : The reason why the Lucerne and DTS don’t offer a six speed is that it wont fit inside the engine bay with a Northstar. It will fit when mated to the 3.9 base six in the Lucerne, but then that would further blur the benefits of the Northstar.

DOHC V8s shouldn’t be turned 90-degrees to fit inside FWD platform. This is even more proof.