This site is not generally known as a fan of GM’s cars. And yet TTAC has lavished much love upon Pontiac’s thunder from down under: the G8 GT. The general line: if the 361-horsepower V8 version is magic, the 415-horsepower GXP should be an automotive miracle. Especially as the GXP offers the option of a manual gearbox. So, did Pontiac save its best car ever for last?
The Pontiac G8 GXP includes model-specific 19-inch wheels and a more aggressive front fascia. If you were expecting something more distinctive, you’re SOL. Just like the G8 GT most people will mistake it for, the GXP is a tasteful (aside from the hood scoops) homage to BMW’s E46 M3—that lacks the visual punch of Chrysler’s large SRT sedans. For all the talk that tastefully reserved pre-Bangle BMWs were da bomb, the Pontiac G8 proves that subtle styling doesn’t attract buyers to a new model.
The G8 GXP’s roomy (this is a LARGE sedan) cabin is virtually identical to that of other G8s. It’s dark and functional (i.e., dreadfully austere). Another homage to the way BMWs used to be? Like those traditional Bimmer interiors, the G8’s cabin says “only serious drivers need apply.” Well, there’s one exception: the seats. They’re comfortable, but as in other G8s the side bolsters could be more aggressive.
The 361-horsepower G8 GT doesn’t feel as quick as the specs suggest. Blame an overly muffled exhaust and an insufficiently responsive automatic transmission. The GXP provides solutions: another 54 horsepower, a louder (thankfully only when you push it) exhaust system and the option of a six-speed manual transmission. Of the three, the extra horses are probably least necessary, and probably aren’t worth the toll they take on fuel economy.
[Quick aside: the G8 GXP's EPA ratings fall from 15/24 to 13/20, incurring a $1,700 gas guzzler tax. The problem isn’t so much the extra displacement as the elimination of cylinder deactivation. Not a good call with the automatic, but probably unavoidable with the manual. To further maximize the EPA ratings (how bad would they have been otherwise?), the manual shifter skips from first to fourth in relaxed driving. Diehard pistonheads may complain; in practice, it's not an issue. If you’re not pushing the car, the engine has more than enough low-end torque to motivate the G9 GXP even in fourth gear. If you are pushing the car, the shifter won’t skip second and third.]
The Pontiac G8 GXP’s medium-throw shifter and low-effort clutch don’t annoy in traffic or frustrate in hard driving. You won’t mistake them for those in a Miata or S2000, but they’re far better than those in the Pontiac GTO and first-gen CTS-V. Again, pair a manual cog-swapper with the G8 GXP’s appropriately throaty 415-horsepower 6.2-liter V8 and you’ve got a large sedan that not only is quick, but feels quick. Need to scrub some speed? Big GXP-only Brembos make the task easy.
Get on the gas in a turn, and oversteer happens. No surprise, given the pounds-feet in play. And yet the G8 GXP won’t be coming soon to a ditch near you. Especially with the direct linkage provided by the manual transmission, the G8 GXP oversteers in such a predictable linear fashion that right-foot steering is the default option.
Push too hard despite clear feedback through the seat of your pants? A touch of countersteer restores your intended line. (The standard stability control doesn’t kill the fun until it stops being fun.) Though the steering isn’t quite as communicative as the chassis, the G8 GXP’s handling could hardly be more intuitive. Step up the tempo, and the G8 shrinks around you. It feels much more tossable than a 196-inch-long, two-ton sedan has any right to. Even some of the world’s thickest A-pillars barely dent driver confidence. Simply put: you won’t find a large sedan that’s more fun to drive.
The GXP’s suspension tuning is just a scosh firmer than the GT’s. Those seeking a hardcore feel might be disappointed. Those seeking a livable ride won’t.
And so, while the G8 GXP could make a stronger styling statement, it’s the best all-around driver’s car the brand has ever offered. Still, there are two big problems. First, the G8 GT is nearly as much fun to drive, while getting substantially better gas mileage and costing over $6K less. Clutch-avoiders should buy the GT, then spend a fraction of the savings on a sweet-sounding aftermarket exhaust.
But if you want a large sedan with a manual transmission, then the G8 GXP is not only the best game in town, it’s the only game in town. Which brings us to the second big problem: this game is leaving town. With the Pontiac brand headed for the dustbin, all G8s will soon be gone. Get one while you can.
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Any word from the grapevine whether there’s a chance the Zeta will move briefly to Chevrolet, even if only to clear out the dead-brand-walking G8’s?
How much better are the Brembo binders than the stock GT stoppers?
I put about 20 miles on a friends G8 GT and my sole complaint about the car was that the brakes offered so little feedback that it was hard to believe that they were up to the task.
Thank you, Mr. President, for putting a team of hack politicians in charge of what cars GM is going to be allowed to build from now on!
The GM press conference this morning suggested GM has no plans to reintroduce the G8 within another GM brand.
That leaves the Camaro.
For GM to not move this car into Chevy showrooms is a tragedy, and a mistake IMO. This car would make a great Impala.
The problem with the G8 is two-fold:
1. The U.S. dollar strengthened considerably against the Australian dollar between the time the G8 was approved and when it went on sale, so importing the cars from Australia probably has not been profitable.
2. Even at money-losing prices, they haven’t been able to sell nearly as many as they planned to. Sales volumes aren’t nearly high enough to justify tooling up a North American plant for the car.
Bottom line: there’s no way for GM to make money on this car in North America, so it’s going away.
BTW, “skosh” is usually spelled with a “K”, easier to see the hard consonant. Plus it derives from “sukoshi”, and Japanese doesn’t really have “c”s (the “chi” is a Romanization of “ti”
Why is it that every time a company re-invents the American sedan I get “Robocop” flashbacks?
G8 sales have been horrible. GM dealers tried the bonus profit routine and it blew up in their faces. In the same category, Charger is a much better car, except for the crappy interior :(
In the same category, Charger is a much better car, except for the crappy interior :(
Don’t forget the god-awful transmission.
If you were expecting something more distinctive, you’re SOL
I’d actually like something less distinctive. A hood scoop delete option would be helpful.
kurtamaxxguy: The GM press conference this morning suggested GM has no plans to reintroduce the G8 within another GM brand.
That’s a pity, but true. The basics exist to assemble a Zeta-platform car at Oshawa, and the plant would definitely benefit from the volume, and it was the original intent, but a rear-drive Impala replacement is too costly an enterprise for GM at this time.
ca36gtp:Thank you, Mr. President, for putting a team of hack politicians in charge of what cars GM is going to be allowed to build from now on!
GM made this decision all by itself. By making cars people didn’t want to pay for for decades, failing to come up with a decent strategy and/or diluting that good offering they had through their multitude of divisions, they killed this car, as well as many others.
Right now, the PTFOA has the unenviable task of directing GM to make vehicles that will ensure it’s (meaning GM’s) viability. GM was unwilling or unable to make the kind of cars that would have bankrolled the G8 through hard times, so now they’re being forced to, ostensibly to ensure some kind of domestic automotive sector exists in the US post-recession.
If I’m going to drop this kind of coin on a GM car, I’d spend a little extra to get the truly superb CTS-V, with 556HP.
I bought a Sport Red Metallic 2009 G8 GT last month outside of my normal purchase cycle because I was afraid that they would not be around in 2012 to get one. Guess I made the right decision.
Will this be one of the last non-Government Motors influenced cars for the next decade or so?
@AndrewDederer
Are you suggesting that the last Pontiac should be the 6000SUX? “8.2 MPG. An American Tradition!” ;-)
They should have enough plastic cladding lying around to make it a reality!
One crappy economy + tight bank lending + job losses + GM’s reality and perception + legion of buyers that will never by another GM = a decent car that never had a chance.
thalter: the CTS-V is about $20k more–hardly just a “little extra.”
Michael Karesh:
Wouldn’t the increase in the strength of the $USD relative to the $AUD actually make the importing of the G8 more profitable? After all, in terms of $USD, the price of production dropped by almost 50%.
Frayed I think is right. shouldn’t it be that the AUS dollar increased in value, not the USD?
I have been really hoping they can simply change the nameplate, grab some Chevy bowties, and start sending these to Chevy dealerships. Its too big a shame that a car this good, for this price, rots on lots and is now going to completely disappear. I wouldn’t expect a Chevy Impala version to start flying, but Chevy is a lot stronger brand than pontiac, and hasn’t been talked about being executed for years the way Pontiac has.
I wasn’t so sure about how long this car would last anyway, with the eco-nannies trying everything possible to make cars the evil of the earth, or simply just higher CAFE standards or higher fuel prices, etc. But this is too soon. I do hope GM can at least break even by the end of this platform’s run. I take it they will still be selling them in Australia as Holdens?
there has to be a way to make this car profitable, but at this point, they probably figure other programs can have higher margins than this one. Otherwise, why not move the car to Canada and send the Holdens from there to Australia?
Its a shame. It isn’t my kind of car at this point in my life, but it really hurts to see a superb automobile get no sales and die. Has there been a car this good in the last 25 years that failed to sell enough units to justify its existence? Mazda RX-7? the list is very short…
The Brembos are on the front only on the GXP and the stopping distance in all the magazine tests is the same but apparently they are much less prone to fade.
I have a 08 GT myself and kind of wish I would have waited now. Still the GXP is a little disappointing for having Brembos up front only and it doesn’t have the HSV front seats from the show car with much better bolstering.
This car suffers from three major problems:
1) GM makes no profit on them
2) They don’t sell
3) They suffer from bland unoriginal styling
Such a shame because under that derivative exterior hides a capable chassis, powertrain and interior packaging.
What killed the G8 was simple – it came out right in time for gas prices to hit the roof. Otherwise, this is a home run vehicle – fast, capable, and roomy.
Styling is a bit derivative, but frankly, have you seen a BMW 5-series lately?
cardeveloper :
April 27th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
G8 sales have been horrible. GM dealers tried the bonus profit routine and it blew up in their faces. In the same category, Charger is a much better car, except for the crappy interior :(
No offense, but are you kidding? In a straight line, these cars are competitive, but the G8 will kill the Charger in the corners, and the G8’s steering has actual feel.
Plus, to my eyes, the Charger is Godawful ugly…the G8 might be kind of bland, but it’s inoffensive. It’d make a great sleeper. Try THAT in a Charger R/T.
At least the G8 GXP insures that Pontiac didn’t go out like a bitch.
Make it in China and sell it here as a Buick.
Boring design and high price point have been the hall marks of Pontiac cars for decades. The old Grand Prixs didn’t sell as new but the used ones go out as fast as they come into the dealers lots. I have 2 GTPs and it brings a tear to my eye that The Genereal is killing Pontiac but if the best the division can come up with is the G8 it’s time to go.
FreedMike is right. The Charger is such a awful car, I don’t see how you can even compare the two.
G8 is much better looking to me than the fraking retro camaro. (Yeah, I know, I watched to much BSG.)
The G8 is dead, long live the G8.
As far as Charger versus G8 goes, I think armchair analysis is useless.
I can’t imagine someone interested in the Charger not driving the G8 or vice-versa.
Road and Track tested the G8 GXP versus the Charger SRT8 and they turned basically the exact same numbers in acceleration, braking and handling. SRT8 versus G8 GXP
With the GT versus the R/T, I have a feeling that those early G8 test cars were ringers because later test cars have given considerably worse performance. Since its introduction, the G8 got a price increase while the Charger’s MSRP dropped. Plus, a Charger with the revised 5.7 has never been tested by anyone IIRC.
Personally, I’ve driven a Magnum SRT8, Charger R/T, G8 V6, and G8 GT. For my money, I’d go with the G8, but the Mopars are not without their charms.
> But if you want a large sedan with a manual
> transmission, then the G8 GXP is not only the
> best game in town, it’s the only game in town.
I had to double-check just in case hell did freeze over but it turns out that automatic transmission is still optional on BMW 550i. Which is another large sedan with a manual transmission.
Bit off topic but in all the GM C11 talk, I don’t recall reading anything re: Holden. I keep reading about Opel, but not them.
Hope they do ok, I’d hate to see the wild world of the aussie domestic market get a little less wild.
The Charger vs G8 rivalry got a little hot online but with Pontiac’s death the Dodge boys win out, until their company dies too.
The people who buy Chargers are in it not only for the performance but they also like the retro-inspired muscle car styling. That’s something the G8 didn’t have on it’s side, just as the GTO didn’t have style on it’s side versus the Mustang either.
People who want head turners are going to get the Charger.
I just heard the bad news about Pontiac going away. Thanks alot GM, you just further devalued my wife’s 2001 Montana minivan and my son’s 2004 Vibe. In addition, GMAC killed my local dealer last December. It must be Murphy’s law. What’s next, killing GMC and making my 2007 GMC Yukon XL Denali lose some more value? I had a 1993 Bonneville and a 1997 Grand Prix and they were great, trouble free cars. I am very saddened at the demise of Pontiac. But, GM can blame itself for the mess they are in. If they had made better cars and not just SUV’s and trucks, perhaps they would be in a better position today. Between GM management and GMAC killing dealers that have loyal followings and good sales, they must not want my business anymore. Fine. They won’t get it. My next purchase will be a Toyota. BTW, the Pontiac G8 won’t become a Chevrolet. That is just too simple to change it over. The GM bean counters would most likely study it to death anyway.
“Are you suggesting that the last Pontiac should be the 6000SUX? “8.2 MPG. An American Tradition!” ”
Don’t forget MagnaVolt! You don’t want someone to steal that sweet 6000SUX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyuKEK7wmsw
The idea of cross shopping G8’s and Chargers sounds like the lead in to a bad joke. May as well say people will cross shop Camaros and Mustangs while you are at it. It happens in magazines and websites, but not by real buyers.
@ajla – great line.
@Pontiac – I understand why, but I am still so sorry to see you go. You will now act as just another reminder of how I am aging. My thanks go out to the folks that built my “management sample” 1993 LT1 Formula from which I obtained well over ~150k miles of great memories and statistic defying trouble free performance despite thrashing on it with a wide grin through all four Indiana seasons.
Alright, I’ll answer my own question.
[QUOTE=theflyersfan]One crappy economy + tight bank lending + job losses + GM’s reality and perception + legion of buyers that will never by another GM = a decent car that never had a chance.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve heard the siren call of “I will never buy another GM car” from Pontiac enthusiasts across the Interweb. If their legions were truely legion, wouldn’t Pontiac not be on the chopping block?
Three words ‘New Chevelle SS’
Nice car to drive,too bad pontiac is gone.This car will be worth some money in the future.Don’t worry about getting parts,.Look at all the 50’s thru 80’s still around.
I smell some badly concealed patriotism here.
5 stars to an ugly Holden
5 stars to a dinosaur(Mustang)
Both of them are gas guzzlers.
Not what you want to buy nowadays.
Slare :
The idea that people don’t cross shop cars as similar as the G8 and Charger is absolutely ridiculous.
Actually the Australian Dollar has recently plunged in relation to the US Dollar, so this would be a good time for GM to change its mind about US Holden Commodore sales and start bringing the Commodore over with the Chevrolet badges that it is already sold in the Middle East and South Africa with. And maybe the Buick badges that the LWB Commodore (the Holden Statesman) is already sold in China with.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AUDUSD=X#symbol=AUDUSD=X;range=2y
http://www.chevroletarabia.com/content_data/LAAM/ME/en/GBPME/001/G1/1L/1L_imagegallery.html?cntryCd=AE
http://www.buick.com.cn/parkavenue/index.aspx
@Buckshot:
Thank you for telling me what I want. Are you a member of the new administration?
Not trying to be TOO picky, but I’m fairly sure Bangle was involved with the E46 and E39s, unless you mean earlier again, like the magnificant E24 6 series.
The G8 will be remember as the car that killed Pontiac. This is another black mark on Lutz’s checkered GM career.
I’ve driven both, the G8 is close but not as good as an SRT Charger. SRT chargers with aftermarket suspension are skid padding at .99. And the engine is so unbelievably easy to modify into some serious HP. The styling, is somewhat polarizing that I happen to enjoy.
I drove my R/T RT pkg Charger 2500 miles at Christmas with two adults, two teenage kids, two dogs, and two weeks of luggage. It was by far the most comfortable drive we have taken. Best part, as sea level, and my new programmer installed, just smoked the tires from a 20 roll. Best gas mileage 27mpg, average 25.
Back in the day, the G8 import was a bridge to development of a NA-produced G8, and a new rear drive Impala to go along with Camaro at Oshawa. This would have made retooling the plant for RWD a little more sensible. Sucks to run out of money….
Captain Tungsten
That was never going to happen, as TTAC pointed out that the time.
I wonder how bad the gas mileage really is. All I need is one person to get a really good number and all will be right in my mind.
Then I can get one.
akear:
“The G8 will be remember as the car that killed Pontiac. This is another black mark on Lutz’s checkered GM career.”
There is no one car that killed Pontiac.
Pontiac was killed by generation after generation of horribly badge engineered cartoonish cars that completely failed to live up to the brand’s performance heritage.
So, if one car from the current Pontiac lineup is to be choosen to represent what killed Pontiac there is no clearer choice than the G3 (Chevrolet Aveo).
The G3 is a badge engineered, awful, cartoonish car that in no way represents anything about what the Pontiac brand should be.
The G8 is not badge engineered from another US market GM car, it has conservative, not cartoonish styling, and it completely lives up to the Pontiac performance heritage.
The G8 is not the car that killed Pontiac, it is simply the kind of car that came too late to save it.
Okay, I really muffed it on the exchange rates.
The real story: the Australian dollar strengthened against the U.S. dollar from the time the G8 was approved until its intro–which is what I was remembering–but then plunged against the dollar last fall.
At this point, the currencies are about where they were at the time the G8 was approved. So, if it was selling, it would probably be profitable as an Aussie import.
So, the problem isn’t the exchange rates at all, it’s the slow sales.
vvk: The 550i is a midsize car. The G8 is closer in size to a regular wheelbase 7-Series. You can’t get a 7 or any other 196-plus-inch-long sedan with a manual transmission.
But, yes, the 550i is the only other V8 sedan nearly as large as the G8 that is available with a manual.
Essentially the same car, very attractively styled and badged as a Chevrolet Caprice, is sold in Dubai.