Ron: Is the new Chevy Cruze a rebranded Daewoo, or a genuinely novel GM product? I understand it will be assembled in the US.
Fritz Henderson: cruze is an all new vehicle developed as a true chevrolet. we will build the vehicle in our plant in lordstown, ohio.
Ron, that’s a great question, but you shouldn’t expect real answers from a GM livechat with Fritz Henderson. Yes, the Cruze was engineered in South Korea by Daewoo, but it’s not a developing-market-mobile with a bowtie like the first Cruze. And the Aveo. And the forthcoming Spark. It’s a global product, sold in different markets as the Daewoo Lacetti, the Holden Cruze and the Chevrolet Cruze. It’s even a pace car! But to answer your question, the major difference between the Daewoo pictured above and the US-market Cruze is engine options. Other than that… Dude, you’re getting a Daewoo!
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Fritz has no time for uppercase letters!
______
But to answer your question, the major difference between the Daewoo pictured above and the US-market Cruze is engine options.
That might just be the Cruze’s saving grace. A six-speed auto and a direct-injection engine on a low priced compact car?
IMO, Not bad. On paper at least. We’ll have to wait to see the reality. Along with what the competition cooks up in the next few years.
I don’t see how engineering a world car in South Korea makes it a Daewoo, when it is built in Ohio.
The badge merely indicates the selling brand, or is it more than that? Where are the components sourced? Couldn’t the Koreans just as easily claim they’re getting a Chevy?
Oh – the safety pace car video was awesome.
Keep on choppin’
ajla :
October 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
That might just be the Cruze’s saving grace. A six-speed auto and a direct-injection engine on a low priced compact car?
—
Sonata is also going D-I. I would bet on Sonata > Cruze.
Henderson is either flat-out lying or completely oblivious to the Cruze’s origins. Neither of which speaks of any confidence on Mr Hendersons behalf.
How comes, that under such minor crash, the doors of the Cruze opened? The car must be very unsafe… Like other Chevrolets… Aveo had one of the worst euro-ncap test ever…
First comment on the pace car video. I wonder why they had someone from Virginia driving the pace car at a German race.
You have to read Fritz’ words carefully. He never said it is an American car, he said it is a ‘true chevrolet.’
Why would you assume a ‘true Chevrolet’ is American?
Ever notice how much Daewoo sounds like “screw you”
SherbornSean :
Why would you assume a ‘true Chevrolet’ is American?
Great point. Fritz sure is quick with the sublime insults to everyone’s intelligence, isn’t he?
gslippy, because it’s a Daewoo product that they came up with despite wherever GM chooses to assemble it (which is a few differnet countries).
A 3-Series assembled in South Africa or China isn’t magically a South African car from a South African or Chinese car from a Chinese company, it’s still a BMW. Just as the iPod and iPhone are American products assembled in China.
Dudes, we’re getting a Daewoo.
There is nothing wrong with selling a Korean-engineered car. However, lying about it makes one wonder: am I buying a car from lying crooks here?
yadayadayada and so it goes. Dudes if the Astra couldn’t make it (engineered by Opel, designed by people who know design) how in hell will a Daewoo make it. I mean c’mon, Daewoo always played second fiddle to Hyundai and Kia, and yes, I recognize the leaps and bounds Hyundai has made but, Daewoo? In Europe second fiddle players actually deliever something to their clients the 1st tier guys usually don’t get (think the historic relationhip BMW vis-à-vis Mercedes). But what does a Daewoo deliever? I mean it’s NOT sportier, more economic, roomier, sexier, better handling than Hyundai or Kia. So the point is…just price? And then you have Chevy struggling to up their retail prices…
Sad story. Generic styling (IMO ugly), so-so handling, ditto economy. I dare to say there’s no need to look into the crystal ball, this car’s a flop.
(And I thought they’d got it w/Malibu, Caddys et al. Sigh)
wsn :
October 9th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
“Sonata is also going D-I. I would bet on Sonata > Cruze.”
Keep in mind those cars don’t compete in the same category. The Sonata is a midsize and the Cruze is compact. A comparison of the Sonata and Malibu makes more sense.
I really think that they are moving in the right direction with this developed in Korea (lower cost), yet designed for American eyes car which will b built in America.
Let’s face it, most cars today have parts sourced around the world.
What does it matter who engineers them?
Do you believe that the Detroit engineers given the same amount of money and the same software as Seoul engineers would do any better?
Now, styling and the knowledge of what sells cars here is the difference.
GM has proven that they know what will sell 50% of the time and which will it be?
A dud or a hit?
Who knows, the thing to consider is they have so much ground to make up on many competitors and do they have the legs financially (Obama).
All of this over a small profit car.
But they could use this as a model to engineer more profitable models.
The clock is ticking and I gotta go and check on my Ford stock.
With large wheels, such as the ones on it at NAIAS, the Cruze looks quite good, with heavy overtones of B6 A4. The interior is much better than any currently offered in this class.
But it will also be heavy. While the ride will likely be smooth and quiet, the handling will lack agility and the engines could be overmatched.
It’s a Chevrolet if it was designed from the start to be a Chevrolet, as it probably was. The G8, as good as it was, never seemed like it was really a Pontiac to me.
The only thing the Cruze has in common with Korea and Daewoo is it was launched and built there first.
Engineering was mainly done by Opel and Holden with input from GM North America.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=128686
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/CA29C33951909857CA2575BB00214969
@bts
“Sonata is also going D-I. I would bet on Sonata > Cruze.”
Keep in mind those cars don’t compete in the same category. The Sonata is a midsize and the Cruze is compact. A comparison of the Sonata and Malibu makes more sense.
The Elantra is in the same class as the Cruze and will have a 6-speed automatic (and likely a 6-speed manual) transmission. As for the DI, if the 2012 Accent is getting a DI 1.6 and the 2011 Sonata is getting a DI 2.4, then it’s highly likely that the 2011 Elantra will be getting a DI 2.0.
bts, Those two links neither negate the fact that the Cruze was primarily engineered by Daewoo, nor are they correct in certain of their facts.
The reality is this: the Cruze does use the GM global Delta II platform that underpins all of GM’s current cars in this size class. And the Delta platform was originally developed by Opel, for the last generation Astra. But taking advantage of an existing platform architecture, and developing the rest of the car around it, doesn’t make it an Opel. It’s the fine tuning, the details, the parts sourcing, and lots of other details that make the finished product.
The Cruze is substantially from Daewoo, just not quite as much as the Aveo.
Not a bad looking car from the front shot but they’re taking so long to get this thing on the market in the US it will probably be irrelevant by the time you can actually buy one.
Paul, it’s great you have links in your original article except where it matters.
My second link specifically says the Cruze was designed by Opel, built by Daewoo. And again…
“Cruze debuts GM’s smart Global Delta architecture and is the first collaborative project with GM divisions worldwide.
With engineering equally shared by Opel and Holden, this version is a “Euro-stralian” effort that just happens to be made for now in South Korea.
It’s also the first truly new GM car built by GM-DAT (formerly Daewoo), and that shows. It might still be a low-cost import, but the interior especially isn’t let down by a cheap feel.”
from: http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/news/reviews/12609/holden-does-well-with-compact-cruze
“The reality is this: the Cruze does use the GM global Delta II platform that underpins all of GM’s current cars in this size class. And the Delta platform was originally developed by Opel, for the last generation Astra. But taking advantage of an existing platform architecture, and developing the rest of the car around it, doesn’t make it an Opel. It’s the fine tuning, the details, the parts sourcing, and lots of other details that make the finished product.
The Cruze is substantially from Daewoo, just not quite as much as the Aveo.”
You say fine tuning, the details, the parts sourcing, etc define it. So you’re saying the Korean Cruze is substatially Daewoo.
But when the Cruze is built in North America for the NA market, it will take the Opel/Holden/GM NA engineering, use NA suppliers and production faculties (the same ones GM spent a fortune on for the Volt), GM NA fine tuning and details to produce the car. So you said it yourself that the North American Cruze will be a Chevy.
Is this the same car they bragged would get 40+ MPG?
The Chevy Cruze – should have been named the Chevy Snooze.
Initial reports of the 1.6L and 1.8L engines are not good – underpowered and unrefined.
Where are the turbos? VW and Mini manages to make motors that are fuel efficient and fun. Why can’t GM?
-ted
Edit – I hear a 1.4 turbo motor is in the works – it may just save this car yet – maybe….
bts, you’re missing the point. Don’t believe everything you read everywhere. I could spend all day correcting the PR blather and mis-information endlessly passed along the press and blogosphere.
I already tried to explain it before, but here goes: Daewoo designed and engineered this car, using the GM Delta II platform. The platform was the starting point; that’s what they got from Opel. But from the platform on, Daewoo did the rest of the primary work to develop this car and get into production. Yes, they undoubtedly had input from NA and Holden, but Daewoo put it all together. It’s their car. They can take credit for it. And notice how Henderson doesn’t deny it. Because that’s the truth.
Another huge mis-conception is that the Saturn Vue and Opel Antera CUVs were designed by Opel. Flat out not true; both were designed by Daewoo. Which exlains why they’re so heavy (4200 lbs). Opel would not let that have happened.
GM no longer has the engineering skill necessary to compete on the world stage. If companies like Mitsubishi and Daewoo can engineer and design their own cars and GM can’t then it is truly pathetic.
This is Wagoneer’s legacy and it is far worse than Roger Smith’s.
The Cruze will probably be a moderate success like the Cobalt and ION where. No way this car is going to break the 300,000 annual sales mark.
“… cruze is an all new vehicle developed as a true chevrolet … ”
And what, pray tell, defines a “true Chevrolet”?
Is Fritz saying that the Aveo isn’t a true Chevrolet? Is the Colorado a true Chevrolet?
Isuzu, GM USA and GM Brazil all developed the Colorado and used the prior generation Isuzu D-max as the starting point. Is the Chevrolet Colorado built in Thailand by Isuzu but sold as a Chevrolet a real Chevrolet?
What exactly makes a Chevy a Chevy? I bet there isn’t a person at General Motors, including Fritz, who has a good answer to that question.
Looks pretty good to me. More of what I want GM to sell more of. Of course I haven’t seen the inside or underneath. Yeah – I look UNDER car and if I’m not satisfied with how they bolted it together, I’m not buying.
I must add that most of the GM products I LIKE don’t last for long. Too similar to the imports that I traditionally favored in the cosmetics.
See the Astra. Got it right and then canceled it. See the Solstice.
I guess the real question is how will it hold up and how good will the drivetrain be? They ought to source the engine and tranny from the last gen Honda like they did with the Vue. I’d have ALOT more faith in it.
Got my fingers crossed for it succeeding.
problem is it looks korean and the old bad korea, not the good new korean like Hyundai and Kia
zerofoo +1
From all reports, the “Holden” Cruze is a serviceable [pun unintended] car let down only by the doggy 1.8 and the Motori diesel.
Holden is designing the hatch version which I think is due late next year but until GM [as opposed to GMH] can do something about the powerplant, it’s going to be an also-ran.
Why did we bail them out again? I liked the Chevy Celebrity Eurosport better. When is that gonna show up in curb side classics?
I refer you to the “Chevrolet Launches Cruze” article on page 11 and 12 of the December 2008 issue of “Automotive Engineering,” an SAE publication. In the article, Peter Mertens, Global Vehicle Line Executive for Compact Cars extols the virtues of the interior soft plastic being much cheaper than it appears (!).
He then goes on to state that although the Cruze body has 140% more torsional rigidity compared to the Cobalt, it does not pass the side crash-protection requirements in those jurisdictions forcing carmakers to increase vehicle safety.
Specifically, to pass the U.S. side crash standards, small reinforcements had to be added to the B-pillars and the rocker panels to better tie the roof and floor pan into the sides to achieve the necessary crash test results.
Also stated was the fact that the higher level of safety will only be for those areas where government regulations prevail.
General Motors has its own “Ugly American” agenda: Paraphrasing Mr. Mertens, “It will be a cold day in Hell when GM throws away four bucks and three pounds per car on some dumb goal of dramatically increasing occupant protection in a side crash for those areas where it is not mandated by law.”
I liked the Chevy Celebrity Eurosport better. When is that gonna show up in curb side classics?”
I think never is the answer. They died or rusted away.
I drove it, and I’m writing the review right now.
Paraphrasing Mr. Mertens, “It will be a cold day in Hell when GM throws away four bucks and three pounds per car on some dumb goal of dramatically increasing occupant protection in a side crash for those areas where it is not mandated by law.”
This sums up the whole GM problem in a nutshell. There is nothing inherently wrong with Korean engineering – Witness Hyundai. The problem always comes from the instructions given the engineers and the limitations placed on them.
And here is the nut:
From a 2006 Business Week article
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/sep2006/bw20060906_198888.htm
GM’s warranty costs have fallen 40% in the last five years as GM has, among other things, increased the durability specifications on its cars. It used to be, for example, that key parts were designed to last only 80,000 miles. That has increased, say GM executives, to well over 100,000 miles, with many parts specified to last 120,000 miles.
The reference quoted (Thanks, CarPerson) at the top of my post shows that the old pre-2006 mentality is back (if it ever left):
Stamp ‘em out cheap and let
Godthe dealers sort em out.TonyJZX wrote: “problem is it looks korean and the old bad korea, not the good new korean like Hyundai and Kia”
That’s problem I have with it. The packaging looks too Asian – and – to my eyes already looks dated versus the soon to be released Ford Focus.
Message to the folks at the RenCenter: Put down the Kool-Aid for a few days, then ask yourselves is the Cruze going to being a leader in its class – or – another GM vehicle that starts out in the good enough category?
3 months ago I had a chance to to look at the Cruze up close and felt it was a nice car, but in many ways not as competitive as the Civic or Corolla. The interior quality (what I observed) and long term reliability (what I expect) will not be match them. I did not drive the car, but expect the driving performance to competitive. The chassis was tuned by GMNA. In the past I had a chance to work Engineers from Daewoo and found them not be as capable as engineers from GMNA or GME (Opel). They were always looking for the “recipe” for doing their job, which of course never exists because engineering is an exercise in problem solving. I think they were drinking too much of Jim Queen’s Kool-Aid. The Korens never want to take any risk, they always wanted the correct answer up front. There also was a lot of friction between the GME and Daewoo engineers. The Germans felt that they got screwed by Daewoo some previous car programs.
That’s another one of GM’s problems, by the time vehicles actually get to market they’ve already been leapfrogged by the competition.
“I don’t care if it is a black cat or a white cat, as long as it catches mice”
–The late, great (but diminutive) Deng Hsiao Ping.
I similarly do not give a rat’s ass if the Cruze is a rebranded Daewoo or a so-called “Novel” GM product,
AS LONG AS it catches mice too!
Meaning, as long as it pulverizes its competition on BOTH Consumer Reports reliability owners reports AND ACES all enthusiast mags, esp. Car and Driver, Comparison Tests.
Can our Congress please say something about a bailed out US company selling daiwoos in the US?
GS650G: The corrupt Congress can talk all it wants, but it will not make one iota of difference.
After all, GM and Ford have been selling canadian and many more mEXICAN, as well as other Daewoo models in the US (see Aveo) for YEARS.
Personally, I do not give a rat’s ass where the cars sold in the US come from. I will decide what is best for ME the consumer, and I advice everybody ELSE to do the same, that is how a HEALTHY GROWING economy works.
And when the UAW losers buy US made TVs, Sneakers, Clothes and all the rest of the foreign stuff that fills their homes, THEN they will have the right to tell ME to buy US made POS I never wanted. After all, NO US maker makes any models that are comparable to the car I drive now (and I really do not want anybody to mumble anything abvout the… Panther platform, or some Caddy, Buick or Lincoln, I have looked at their offerings, they offer NO similar vehicle)
the problem with small cars to me is that they are not men’s cars… i have a problem even with good designs like the Ford Focus and the Kia Forte.
They are good cars with clever interior and exterior designs but even they will alienate some guys.
Now this Cruze… the outside has a really offputing look. It is just not an attractive car. I just don’t wanna see it in my driveway.
2ndly, the car has a 1.8 liter petrol with 104kW and 176Nm… it weighs close onto 3,000lb…
This doesn’t sound like any recipe for driving pleasure.
The plus side is I like the interior.
This is symptomatic of GM’s failure. They make a mediocre car in a one size fits all for all markets.
It’s not enough to make a good car with a good warranty. You all know GM won’t survive to any degree with a car that merely meets the opposition.
This car they delivered is mediocre ar best… a fleet/rental at worst. Where’s the sex? What’s making me wanna step into a showroom and buy this car?
And all the while GM global deludes themselves thinking this car will ’save’ them…
“TonyJZX :
October 10th, 2009 at 9:28 am
the problem with small cars to me is that they are not men’s cars… i have a problem even with good designs like the Ford Focus and the Kia Forte.”
Weight and size is not really all that matters. I can think of plenty of large V8s that were specifically designed as “chick cars”, the most obvious example is the MERCURY brand, in the past the “Cougar” was the chick equivalent of the “Thunderbird”.
Motorcycles, even heavy Harleys, weigh a small fraction of what an econobox weighs, and even their engines and HP are smaller. That does not mean they are not predominantly bought by men.
It is true that many women prefer a tiny Miata to a heavy S class or 7 series. This has to do with their smaller average size, but also with their driving needs (go to downtown areas to shop where parking is difficult etc)
autosavant:Remember, the farther down the drain American car production goes, so goes MANY other businesses. Eventually it will affect you. Cant we build anything here anymore? The globalists sure dont want that.Their plan to destroy our standard of living cant come soon enough. Black cat, white cat, I DO care.
The pic shows a reasonable looking car. However, methinks what we need is some different looks, some different interiors, e.g., something that will excite the senses. This car is just one of many – and given both the US and Korean pedigree – probably not at the top of quality and reliability.
There’s tons of talent in this country. I truly hope we use it – and start actually making things – oops, quality things – here again.
Hopefully, people will not associate Cruze with Hyundai. Cruze should be an all around superior choice than that!
“seabrjim :
October 10th, 2009 at 9:54 am
autosavant:Remember, the farther down the drain American car production goes, so goes MANY other businesses. Eventually it will affect you.”
NO IT WILL NEVER EVER AFFECT MY BUSINESS.
In fact, my business, where I have lifetime employment with NO retirement age limit (although I could easilyu have retired two years ago with full and excellent benefits), IS A MODEL for those in Detroit that have been Losing HOME GAMES for 35 years in a row and blaming everybody ELSE, including, amazingly, the long-suffering CONSUMER for it!!!
In MY business, people from all over the world pay AN ARM AND A LEG to use our “Products”, which are products of our BRAINS and not our hands. The USA is BY FAR the best in the entire world in my business, and has become so AFTER the “SPUTNIK” scare, which made the US INVEST in RESEARCH, and transformed our top Universities from merely glorified High schools to RESEARCH institutions, generating NEW KNOWLEDGE and Advancing the State-of-the-Art.
We do NOT go around begging anybody to come to us and give us their considerable $. THEY ask us, and ONLY if they are QUALIFIED< and ace the tests and the GPAS and all thr rest of it, do we admit them.
" Cant we build anything here anymore? The globalists sure dont want that."
That is 100%, USDA choice BS you parrot from that contemptible DEMAGOGUE Lou DObbs no doubt, and is 100% WRONG, every word of it. I have NO TIME to give you a free education. Go look the FACTS Up. We still build and make PLENTY OF STUFF, but the stuff that the chinese and indians CANNOT MAKE.
You will never will be able again to make $64 an hour being a JANITOR at Delphi, with NO education and NO skills.
And the time where these people made $64 an hour, while, as late as 1979, top universities such as the U of Michigan in Ann Arbor were hiring MIT GENIUSES with SERIOUS PhDs, that sacrificed the ten best years of their lives before they became junior faculty for $19,000 a year, and worked them to death before it gave them their precious TENURE, is GONE FOREVER.
FREE TRADE, WARTS AND ALL, is the ONLY way to BOTH peace and prosperity All over the world. AND less trade will only SHOOT YOU IN THE FOOT.
You REALLY seem you need to learn a whole lot, and I am missing my weekly entertainment, the excellent NPR "Click and Clack" car show to educate you. I will stop and at least catch its last 6 minutes.
Looks like a nice car, hopefully Chevrolet will get it on the lot soon.
Ok
let me straighten this out a bit because I’m tired of hearing it. Daewoo did not do much if any engineering on the Cruze.(Daewoo (Korea arm) does little to no stand alone engineering.) The base body was a collaboration between several design studios, GM/Patac (the china arm) Did the interior hard parts design and most of the body structure in collaboration with GMNA and Opel. Opel did much of the suspension tuning for the models curently being sold.(North America will do their own) Opel did the powertrain for most of the current models being sold. GMNA did half of the electronic controls hard parts and Opel did the other half. China did their own specific electronics calibrations for the stuff that occurs inside the body (North America will do their own). Opel did the electronics calibrations for what happens under the hood.(North America will do their own)
That said everyone neds to step back and understand what I wrote. No single division of GM not Holden, Opel, Daewoo, Patac, or GMNA engineers a complete car anymore. There is no such thing. Just because a division of GM may roll out a car design at an auto show does not mean they are the full designer of it. It just means they may be the first in line to get it. GM no longer designs a car specific for a division and badges it for others with the exception of Vauxhall. Vauxhall has no stand alone enginnering group per se, those are truely global cars plugged into opel with different badges. GM builds a global cars and multiple divisions are slated to get it from the beginning and it is designed as such. However no group owns the whole design by a long shot.
Case in point: I did a significant amount of engineering on the Camaro,Cruze,Lacetti and Insignia and I sit right here in North America. Opel did a significant amount of work on the SRX,Equinox,Terrain,Camaro,Lacrosse
PATAC, Holden and GM/CAMI Canada also worked on those.
@ zerofoo
I hear a 1.4 turbo motor is in the works – it may just save this car yet – maybe….
This was to be also used (sans turbo) in the Volt? They’re currently built in Austria (or something like that).
I wonder if it’s caught up in the Opel nastiness?
We’ve had the Cruze in Australia for about 3 months. Sales are underwhelming to say the least. So are the reviews. Holden expect to build them in Australia but they’re way way way off the sales numbers they need to fully commit. Holden will lose government $$$ if they don’t however.
“Autosavant :
October 10th, 2009 at 9:35 am
It is true that many women prefer a tiny Miata to a heavy S class or 7 series. This has to do with their smaller average size, but also with their driving needs (go to downtown areas to shop where parking is difficult etc)”
Why is my 1990 Miata, with no power steering, manual windows, a manual top, 5 speed manual transmission, and a stiff, double wishbone suspension a chick car while big heated seat, soak up the road cars with automatics and latte dispensers are mens cars. Everyone wines about no one building cars for the enthusiast but the one that is probably the most accessible to everyone is written off as a chick car. Yes, us mere workplace mortals will probably never own an Elise.
The logical conclusion to this philisophy is to of course buy a Tahoe. Trucks after all are mans vehicles.
Autosavant:
Personally, I do not give a rat’s ass where the cars sold in the US come from. I will decide what is best for ME the consumer, and I advice everybody ELSE to do the same, that is how a HEALTHY GROWING economy works.
Then you send tax dollars to the effort. I care when my paycheck is raided, a lot. This isn’t about UAW issues or flag waving. It’s about billions being stolen from us and benefiting foreign companies and workers. Make the Daiwoo workers pay a tax for the pleasure of building cars for sale here.
People like you who don’t care where their products came from are what got the country into the trade mess in the first place. Walmart mentality.