Went in to look at a low-mileage 2001 Maxima just off lease. The advertised price was about $2k below the book average. Looked it over, no suprises. Drove it, no surprises. All my questions about it’s history were answered with supporting documentation. Signed the paperwork, drove it off the lot the next day. No hassle, no last-minute changes, no baloney.

Second best – Carousel Audi, Minnetonka, MN

Very interested in the lease deals on 2006 A4s. Went in numerous times and talked with a very friends saleswoman. I drove the cars when I wanted to with no hassle, and she did what she could to find a car equipped the way I wanted. I was always greeted warmly by everyone, always treated with respect. I ended up buying a Passat instead, but the impression they made has lasted and I’ve passed the saleswoman’s name on to several friends.

Honorable mention – Feldmann Imports, Bloomington, MN

This is a Nissan/Mercedes dealership where I went for routine service several times. They treat all their service customers the same – absolutely top notch. Hands down the best service experience I’ve ever had. You pulled in to a warm, clean reception area, the advisor greeted you, your car got whisked away. When it came back it had always been washed, hand-dried, and vacuumed. The prices were equal to other Nissan dealers, so they became my service provider of choice. I will shop there again, too.

Worst – Morrie’s Mazda

Got excited about advertised deals on “leftover” 2005 RX8s. Great prices were advertised, so I cleared my afternoon and went in. Of course, the cars were total phantoms. They didn’t tell me this, though, until after I’d already driven a 2006. The advertised cars, if they ever even existed, were “already sold.” They then proceeded with extremely high pressure sales, trying to pry out “the payment I was looking for” and trying to make me purchase to the 2006 I drove. I finally escaped when the salesman stepped away to talk to the sales manager. I literally ran out of the dealership.

I’ve also had some appalling experiences at Chevy dealerships, which I won’t repeat here…

My lesson that I took from it – the newer ones haven’t been pressured by their bosses to wring the most money from every person and have some humanity in the transaction. The comment above where they asked for the newest salesman off the bat was probably spot on.

We actually bought two more Toyotas from that specific salesman over the next few years, and when he left the family started shopping at a different dealer.

Instead, my bad dealership experiences have been over the phone, whenever my wife brings a car in for maintenance or warranty repairs. Every time, every time, she calls me with the dealership’s long list of BS that they insist is part of the maintenance schedule or absolutely has to be done and isn’t covered by warranty, and I have to spend ten minutes listening to the list and telling her “no…no…no…no…yes! yes, have the oil and filter changed.”

And yet, whenever I go in, they only suggest the scheduled maintenance that’s actually due, or fix the warranty repair and that’s it. Such nonsense.

Bought a Honda in 2007 (1st car purchased since 1995) and a Toyota late in 2008. Also had looked at Subaru and Ford prior to these recent purchases.

While the dealership experience was not enjoyable I felt that I was treated courteously and fairly by the salesmen. The only painful part is dealing with the finance person (yes you have to deal with them even if you are paying cash). When completing the paperwork it becomes annoying to keep refusing all of the “add-ons” that are offered when you have already made it clear that you are paying cash and do not want any accessories or prepaid service contracts.

I only negotiated on cars I ended up buying. I was a cash buyer, had no trade-in, knew what I was willing to pay (invoice), knew the amount of current dealer incentives and hold-backs that would allow the dealership to make some profit even selling at invoice.

IMO this approach works if you are polite but firm, are purchasing a car already in stock and don’t really need to purchase the car.

If you want a popular car, need marginal financing or have a trade-in it is much harder to leave the dealership feeling well served.

Are you serious? Is the Hyundai buyer more sophisticated than the Buick buyer? Really? I severely doubt it.

Employee turnover in retail auto sales is horrible but the rate really differs between dealers. In my area there was one import dealer who consistently sold over 100 new cars a month. He had six full-time sales people on the floor and the average tenure was about 3 years. Another dealer of the same marque was on a busier street filled with dealers but struggled to sell 50 cars a month and had 14 sales people on the floor… average tenure about 45 days.

Do the math, six experienced salespeople given a chance to make a living wage were outperforming 14 untrained newbies who who were constantly waiting to get fired. They were like goldfish in the pirhana tank waiting to see who got eaten and spit out next. Needless to say, this attitude was reflected in how they treated customers. If you, as a salesperson, have no expectation that you will be there long enough to ever reap the rewards of repeat business then you simply aren’t concerned about it.

I know that dealers will hate this idea as all I ever hear about “CSI surveys” is how unfairly they are scored, but bear with me for a second…

The OEMs spend millions of dollars surveying custmers to death every time they buy or service their car. These figures are used to calculate bonus programs, spiffs, membership in gold-star super-premier ranking programs, whatever. However the numbers are kept invisible to consumers who also don’t know what a “gold-star” dealer means other than the fact that they bought a vinyl banner for the showroom.

I suggest that these satisfaction ratings be made public and displayed on the OEM websites when using the dealer locator.

Bridge2far: “Wow! Anyone surprised at the number of import dealers mentioned?

The explanation may be that import buyers are, generally speaking, more savvy and informed about the whole car buying experience. The old, tried-and-true tactics that have worked so well with the domestics for decades are part of the reason a lot of those very buyers switched to imports. Many import buyers know and recognize the tricks immediately and won’t tolerate it, even to the point of traveling far out of their way to buy at a dealership where they’re dealt with in a much more professional manner.

Many domestic buyers, OTOH, may either not care or even recognize the shenanigans. Remember, most domestic buyers are people who will never, under any circumstances, touch an import. For salesmen, they’re easy meat, and the victims may not be willing to admit (or even know) when they’re being taken, probably on a repeated basis.

Reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where the naive young Hank buys his first new car (a Ford Maverick) at the special ’secret’ price of full MSRP, and continues to buy his next five new cars at the special ’secret’ price. Everytime he does, there’s a big fanfare both when he comes in and after the deal is concluded. He feels great about the ’special’ personal service until he finds out how he’s been taken over the past two decades.

One was 2 years out of college when I decided to finally go buy a truck, in my case a 02 ZR2. Make fun of my choice all you want but I loved that truck. Went into the local GM dealer on a weekend dressed casually, like many others have said couldn’t get a salesperson to look at me.

Some really young guy (found out he had just started and was the youngest salesman) walked in and asked if I needed anything.

Bought the truck from him 10 minutes later. Told the other three salesman (all well over 40 and still sitting on their butts) “great job ignoring a 10 minute sale” on the way out.

The 2nd was better, I bought a “Certified used” F-car at Tim Lalley GM in Ohio because it was the best thing I could find at the time. Week later I took the car to the dealership by my work (Bob Jeannotte in Plymouth, MI) for warranty service. Regardless of me having all the paperwork for the car, the warranty wasn’t in the system. This resulted in some nice discussion which eventually ended with the service manager saying “for all I know you stole that car”. WTF?!? It took 2 months (GM warranty on certified is 90 days) before the warranty was in the system… The only thing that made it easier to swallow another GOOD dealership (Lou Lariche in Plymouth) took care of my warranty work. 4 years later the car is still worth more than I paid for it.

I’ve favored GM since I was 16. Over 15 years I drove only GM products having bought 3 new and 3 used. I work in the auto industry and in some cases directly with GM. I am frankly, the poster child for a customer GM should be able to keep.

But my last new truck purchase was a Nissan. Frankly the buying process was miserable for that, as well. But at least I haven’t had to see the dealer again for almost 2 years.

GM’s problem is not all in product. I’ve had some of their worst cars (S10/Z28) and been very well served by them. But, you treat your customers like dirt and they will stop coming back. I understand customer service is difficult but there are too many rotten dealerships out there.

I don’t want to see GM dissolve. I don’t want to see UAW retirees get hosed out of their pensions or benefits.

I just hope GM kills off or trims all of these arrogant, cheating, poor quality dealerships. That, I won’t regret seeing.

Nah, this fine episode occurred at Stocker Subaru/Chevrolet in State College, PA.

“Wow! Anyone surprised at the number of import dealers mentioned?”

Actually, I’ve noticed the most stereotypical car salesman stuff at local domestic dealers. Pushy salespeople, sleazy dressers, ridiculous test-drive requirements, etc…

No if a sleazy tactic makes a dealer more money at dealer A you can bet that other dealers also do it because it makes them more money. Greed, Arrogance Contempt for the customers and Laziness are hallmarks of car shopping experience with a dealer. Import or domestic. Now the better ones won’t curse at you ( happens all the time) or hold your keys or credit card hostage or won’t refuse you a test drive, but it is simply in their nature much like the tale of the scorpion stinging the frog

http://www.persistenceunlimited.com/2006/08/ever-heard-the-tale-of-the-frog-the-scorpion/

Which is also why the deals are not so apparent even though they are dying on the vine from lack of business. Its simply in their nature to screw you over even if they will die due to their actions

Back in the late 80’s I did a lot of bicycle riding.

Shimano shift indexing had only been around a couple of years and I wanted that and a lighter bike.

So, I’ve got the cash in my pocket ($600) and I hit a local bike shop. I look the bikes over and there’s a Panasonic (they made real good bikes back then) that is my size and about $600. I ask for a test ride.

“Are you going to buy today?”

Maybe, if I like the way it handles and fits.

“Maybe isn’t good enough. The bike will come back dirty and I’ll have to clean it.”

It was dry outside and the only cleaning would have been dust.

Showed him the $600 and walked.

Went to another bike shop about 20 miles away. They actually put me in a cheaper bike – a Schwinn (a couple of pounds heavier all around) based on what I told them what I was going to use it for (Fitness riding, non-competition). They also gave me a discount on bike shorts and a jersey. Bought the bike.

I made it a point to show the 1st bike shop owner the new bike and that I had been serious about buying and that he had lost a sale by being a dick.

He went out of business a couple of years later.

The bike shop I bought from lasted about 10 more years before closing the location that I bought at.. They had another store about 10 miles away and stayed in business until the early 2000s.

May 2002. Husband’s Hyundai Scoupe was getting to be more trouble than it was worth and we were about to get married and wanted something with 4 doors and a touch more reliability. We poked around online and found a used elantra at stan olsen hyundai in Omaha, NE… the price was high but we figured that was what negotiation was for. Went over to check it out. They were running a deal where they paid your sales tax, sounds good, right? Anyway, we checked out the car (I think it was a 99 or 98), thought it was pretty nice. But then we had to deal with the salesman from hades. He made us sit and wait in the showroom for an hour while he put his feet up on his desk and talked to a friend of his about their kids — should have just left right then. I had a good idea of what the car was worth, and their pricing was… high. “But we’re paying your sales tax!” “That means nothing to me if you’re just tacking it on to the price of the car. In fact, I pay *more* sales tax that way.” We showed him our trade, he laughed at us and told us they’d maybe give us $50 for it. He bullied us to drive to lincoln that night and get Rob’s parents to co-sign the loan, even though that was unnecessary. We finally left, pissed off as hell, swore to never return, and bought a new focus from the nearby Ford dealership, where they treated us like human beings.

The same dealership group owns an audi dealership and we went with a friend to check out an allroad and S4. They wanted way more for each than they were worth (they had a new S4 convertible that sat on their lot for years because they wouldn’t budge on the price). He dealt with them on and off for more than a month trying to negotiate (they would call, say they’d take his price, he’d go there, and they’d offer the original price again) before he bought an LGT from the same guy that sold us ours.

My experience dealing with Jim Ellis VW led to my first editorial and becoming a writer here. So while it may have been a terrible experience, it did me some good in the long run. :)

They don’t. Its just that most customers will cave and won’t walk away so they make more money. I’ll give you a hint if you hadn’t said my offer is good for another month they probably would have called you the next day. Out of the last 4 cars I have purchased 3 of them I stuck to my guns and only allowed myself to be bumped a hundred dollars or so from my initial offer. Then I walked and then they called me the next day. This happened in 82, 91 and 2000. I always make sure to spend a decent amount of time (hours) in the haggle room. I always make sure they’ve written my number down (almost all the good dealers do it anyway) and always make sure they have the info (license number SS #) because I want them to run a credit check on me.

My main problem is that I don’t believe this is how cars should be sold. I actually purchased my last car on a whim. I visited a Toyota Scion dealer the day before new years eve just to look at an Xb. I liked it and bought the same day in an hour. I was flabbergasted. If only we could go to the Saturn scion model. I am all for dealers manufactured etc making a profit. I just want to be able to buy things like I do other things

Quirk Mazda, Quincy Ma. I have a chip on my shoulder because I bought Quirk once. 2001 Jetta with out of straight rear suspension assembly, never got alignment fixed right and they denied all aspects of the affair to the very end including that I previously mentioned it.

Won’t buy there again, all I want is to see if I fit in Mazda3. I have long legs and like to stretch them out, not drive with knees in air. Its the right car on paper but I want to know if I fit in. And they are 1/2 mile away.

A well dressed, apparently decent looking young (remind self how Quirk is evil) sales guy watches me get out of my mint 99 Miata right in front of showroom door. I walk up and he comes out fast as if to pick up $100 bill on curb. Spins backward and shouts at me still moving backwards to snow bank.

I nod at him.

-Do you want sales or service?

-Neither, I don’t want service and I want less than sales. I only want to see if I fit in the seat of a Mazda3.

-Huh?

-I want to see if I fit in the seat of a Mazda3

-Huh?

-Mazda3. Front seat. If I fit.

-What?

-This is a Mazda dealer. I lean out and look up and point to sign. OK. Thats a Mazda3. Point ten feet to right to cold car in snow. OK. They are warm inside. Point. I want to sit in one. I am not going to buy today.

-I get it. I am not retarded. You said you need less than sales. What the hell are you talking about.

-OK I have to go now.

I hold hands up in surrender. Turn my back to him and head in. He heads away. Inside its apparent he is working alone on a bright clear Saturday morning. Two miserable looking customers are stranded, waiting with sick looking patience, one at each little dirty deal table with paper scraps scattered about.

I sit in the thing and its tight. I cant stretch legs out with seat back full. OK. I will wait for 2009s to arrive. And search the forum archives for seat and pedal mods. 2009 Mazda6 same thing. Restricted seat range.

I wont go back to Quirk showroom.

They do have good guys in parts department though, I will go there. They open up ‘99 miata parts diagrams, I point with my finger to the screen and tel them the right number before they hit enter. They discuss it. Everybody is happy.

There is another multi brand dealer, 20 miles north. Ira Motors. They employ friendly, know-nothing sales people. Last one could not drive a manual and was actually impressed by how I could let the clutch out without him feeling it. The back office guys are intelligent and seem not dishonest. They seem to care at least a little that I bought two cars before. I will buy there again in spring. If they make it through the winter.

OTOH, there was the Toyota dealership in Milwaukee that sold me a new Corolla in 1984. I negotiated a good price and went to pick up my new car. The salesman went through the whole handover routine and finally I started her up and saw the gas needle was on E. I said “There’s no gas in this car!”. He said “Don’t worry, there’s a gas station on the corner.” Needless to say I never took my car for service at that dealership.

The guy who owns that first store has another Mazda dealer on the other side of town. No problem, I thought. I talked to the sales manager at their sister store figuring they could just dealer-trade and we could have the car (the second store seemed to be from a totally different universe in terms of friendliness). Can you believe it, but due to some sort of rift between the management of the two dealers they refused to dealer trade any cars between them?! We ended up driving 25 miles to another dealer who did trade successfully with the first place and we bought the car… again, they turned out to be very nice to work with.

I was more amazed at the hoops we had to jump through to buy this car. Undoubtedly most people would have just walked and bought something else.

Back in 2003 I was looking at a used Saab 9-5. Their terrible resale value seemed to make them great second-hand buys. I had been perusing sales on eBay and Craigslist and had a good idea what dealers and individuals were selling them for. The local dealer had a CPO model (I liked he idea of a 6-year 100k mile warranty on a used Saab) 9-5 Aero. They were asking $24,995 for the car when they were typically selling for about $16k on eBay (by dealers). I figured the warranty and excellent condition of the car were worth a couple grand or so to me so I offered the dealer $18,500 for theirs (I already knew it had been on their lot for nearly 6 weeks). The sales manager basically called me a cheapskate and said “no way.” I told him that my offer still stands for another month and he could call me if he still has the car. A month later I owned the car for 18k. Why do dealers think that their used cars are worth so much more than the rest of the market? Other than a CPO vehicle with a warranty they often know nothing about the history of the car they bought at auction and if something breaks a week later they won’t remember your name anyway. I would much rather buy my used cars from the previous owner so I can see who had it before me and how they took care of it.

This went on for a while, as the group of employees encircling me got bigger and bigger.

When other customers started coming outside to see what the fuss was, I knew I had beaten them.

They gave me back my keys. I promptly threw the keys to the demo onto the roof of the dealership :)

My dad eventually escaped and we went elsewhere. The sick thing is that if they hadn’t pulled that shit we would’ve bought the car.

Shopped online, received an email quote, a promise over the phone of a choice of colors, but when I showed up they didn’t have the car or anything like it. So, I let them do a dealer trade, but when I went to pick up the car it had a rock chip they “didn’t notice” even though it was pretty obvious from a large distance. It took hours to get them to agree to let me have an auto body shop do the repair. They received a check in full from my credit union, but they had already taken out a loan which I didn’t find out about until I got a payment book in the mail a week later. I faxed them information about the auto body repair, which they had agreed to pay for in writing, but they never seemed to receive anything no matter what I did. I called them repeatedly about the second loan, but all they could do is tell me not to worry about it, because it was their responsibility, but of course it was my credit. After about a month of the runaround, it took a call to Subaru of America, which got things resolved fairly quickly.

I filled out the customer survey honestly, and unlike the unpaid/redundant loan and auto body repair, this prompted a near immediate response. After I received a follow up survey, they called me daily, promising me accessories, and other goodies, but all I wanted was to never hear from them again. I never filled out the follow up survey, and got my wish when they stopped calling me.

After that it took me a long time to feel any “love” for the Subaru…