Here we go again — the always churning, ever yearning, never learning rumor mill is speculating that Pontiac might be headed for an Oldsmobile style fate (i.e. murdered without dignity). But I remember that when Olds was put down, it had no reason to live. Does Pontiac? And seeing as how my very first car was a Pontiac, do I care if the brand gets driven off one final cliff? Looking at their line up, that’s a tough call. Shall we go one by one? G6 — meh. G5 — double meh. The new G3 (a rebadged Chevy Aveo) is actually grounds for homocide. Grand Prix? OK, that’s just sad. I mean, it’s old, not much bigger than the G6, and its only selling point — you can get the maniac GXP version with a V8 — has been rendered moot by the G8. Torrent — what the hell’s a Torrent? Anyhow, I couldn’t care less. The all new Vibe is a Toyota Corolla. So far, I wouldn’t shed a tear. The Solstice. Oooooh. Suddenly my heart is in this. The Solstice is gorgeous, and a wonderful counter punch to all that the General has accomplished over the last three decades (outliers like the Vette and GNX excepted). Then there’s the aforementioned G8. You will be reading my review of this car next week but let me just say that in my mind the G8 and the G8 alone is reason enough not to kill Pontiac. What do you think?
99 Comments on “Question of the Day: Will You Cry For Pontiac?...”
Back to TopLeave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
You can also login using Facebook Connect.
I, for one, will miss Pontiac if it goes away. My first car that I purchased fully with my own money was a Grand Prix and I followed that with another Grand Prix (this time GTP). I have a soft spot in my heart for Pontiac, and I think they should keep them around for the styling (I like it) and make it the sports car portion. Let’s have Chevy make bread and butter cars and Pontiac make fast ones.
Its funny, because living in Michigan I’m surrounded by people who honestly believe that Pontiac is the most popular of GM’s brands. They don’t seem to grasp the concept that they’re all nothing but re-badges.
The only thing they have going for them is nostalgia. I won’t be any more or less nostalgic when they are gone.
I thought that the Grand Prix is already dead. The Solstice is supposed to die soon, if this site is accurate, and it should have been a Chevrolet anyway from day one. The G8 is a wonderful car, but I’ll bet GM isn’t too committed to it, and it should have been a Chevrolet, too.
The Pontiac everyone remembers fondly – the Pontiac of the 1960s; the Pontiac that produced the screaming-chicken Trans Ams of the 1970s – died years ago. As with Oldsmobile, this is a case of putting another brand whose best days are long gone out of its misery.
Too late; it’s already dead. GM needs to get down to Chevy and Caddy, STAT.
(Said with fond memories of those great Pontiacs of the 60s — GTO, Grand Prix, Bonneville, and Catalina 2+2.)
I’ll cry for the idea of Pontiac – that GM has given up any pretensions of a sporty brand, and will churn out Malibus and Impalas for the masses.
I won’t miss it.
The Solstice is going away ($10k loss a car?), so why not just rebadge the G8 as a Chevy, drop the rest, and call it a day? Isn’t that what happened to Geo?
Short of sorting out the dealers, of course…
I say kill it. The G8 could just as easily be a Chevy, or a Buick. The Solstice is dead after its model run and look at what you are left with.
Although I dont it is necessary to kill the entire brand, just most of the lineup. It could still make sense to have it as an outlet for Holdens and other performance models from other markets. What needs to be done though is to kill any stand alone Pontiac dealer so in the future the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer can cope with having no more than 2 strictly performance oriented Pontiac’s on the lot. Get rid of the G6, G5, G3, Vibe and Torrent.
The G8 and Solstice is a pretty nice lineup. It would compliment 2-3 Buick models and 2 GMC models on the same dealership lot very well.
Bottom line, if GM’s RWD program doesnt have a future, neither does Pontiac. I guess its a lot of coulds and woulds, the brand is expendable and the writing is on the wall.
My first car that I purchased was also a Grand Prix (’87) and for that reason, I’d shed no tears over Pontiac’s death. I can still hear the squeaks and rattles from that nasty interior, still remember that disgusting dealership, and still mourn the money I lost on it’s blown transmission + horrible depreciation. Worst car ownership experience of my life.
If GM could make Pontiac a full RWD lineup, from the compacts to the large sedans, like BMW, then it would have a reason to live.
But Pontiac’s price points aren’t right for a full RWD lineup, and that’s supposed to be Cadillac’s thing anyway. Isn’t a new smaller RWD Caddy supposed to be coming?
The Sky looks better than the lame duck Solstice (although the Solstice Targa is hot), and moving the G8 over to Chevy would allow for a proper Impala and a proper El Camino.
Back in the early 50s, when I was a bright new fighter pilot, every few weeks the local Pontiac dealer would park a shiny new Pontiac in front of our apartment, knock on the door, and hand us the key with “Try it for a few days.” I’ll bet I test drove at least a dozen Pontiacs. I ended up buying a Studebaker coupe that I stll recall fondly.
I never bit on a Pontiac, but a lot of the other newly prosperous pilots did.
Pontiac…Pontiac…tryin’ to remember. Um.
Didn’t George Washington cross the Pontiac at night to fight the British?
I won’t cry for the Torrent or the G4 or the Grand Prix. I will cry for the G8, the Solstice, the Fiero, the GTO, the Firebird, and all the other cars Pontiac made/has made that [at least tried to] lived up to their image, and weren’t merely clone-car filler (okay, I guess the Firebird was kind of a clone-car, but at least it was sporty).
What I will cry about is the fact that if Pontiac dies, so will the Zeta platform in North America.
My first two cars were Pontiacs (’76 Ventura & ‘78 Firebird) and among the GM clan they were my favorite. The tupperware cars they built in the 80’s and 90’s were so unappealing that I wrote them off years ago. The new GTO made me notice them once more. The Solstice got my attention. The G8 had me rooting for them again.
But short of obtaining DeLorean’s DNA and making a clone to put in charge of a proper Pontiac Motor Division, you just know that however bright the possibilities, GM will just screw it up.
Kill the Poncho? One of those heart says ‘No!’ head says ‘Meh’ dilemmas.
I’m a big time Pontiac fan. I own 3 right now, and my family has owned about 12 overall.
Even on a G5-type rebage, putting the arrowhead on a car causes me to like it enough to at least give it a glancing look.
If GM does need to get rid of the brand, then I will really miss it.
Kill it. There’s no real reason for it to exist – the Solstice and G8 can be renamed and moved under the Chevrolet umbrella rather easily. Come to think of it the Solstice wouldn’t really have to be renamed but the G8 most likely would. Every other model in their lineup is irrelevant or a rebadge.
I recall GM saying a while back that they wanted to turn Pontiac into an American BMW… what happened? All they did was rebadge some Holden’s. And rebadging Holden’s does not BMW’s make.
I love Pontiac – at least what I remember Pontiac to be. The ’60’s were the time to really be a Pontiac fan. I am trying to gain some favor for the G8 but their website is total ****. That is reason alone in this day and age to die.
I like the G8 and Soulstice.
But as a brand, I’ll have to quote Aldo, the first ape to speak against his human masters.
“No.”
Miss Pontiac? Not a chance. GM should keep a minimal number of brands for sale in the USA: Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC (for trucks), and Saturn. I say send Pontiac after Oldsmobile now then give Buick the boot soon after.
I haven’t thought through the other worldwide brands, and I’m not sure what to do with Saab, but the above should take care of the traditional American GM brands.
Every time I hear the dead brand walking-mantra, I ask myself, what stops GM from selling some particular niche vehicles as separate brands at the local Chevy delarship? Pontiac Solstice does not have to be killed, just all the dealers and all the franchises. Pontiac as brand does not have to be killed, just all the overlapping models that doesn’t make anybody happy. Take whatever niche vehicles that make a selling point and scrap the rest. And sell them at combined dealerships. Why have trim-lines with different names, when you can differentiate via different brands?
Pontiac ??? What is that ??? Ahh, the modified Chevrolets I see on the road.
I wouldn’t. But I don’t think the brand has to leave. It just has to do a better job of being Pontiac.
How come there’s no talk of killing Buick? All Buick is is three or four cars marketed toward card-carrying AARP members. (No offense, really) And what about the rumors of the G6 becoming RWD within the next couple of years? That alone would get me excited about the Pontiac brand…but the G5? The Vibe, even though my roommate has one? And yes, the similarities between it and the Toyota Matrix are eerie at best.
I say that this is not a product of the Pontiac brand outliving its lifespan, but of the GM brass not having any. The guy that mentioned the rebadged Holdens hit it right on…you can’t even DARE to compete with a BMW if all you’re doing is recycling cars from other markets. Get some ideas of your own…some fresh ones designed from the ground up…and if they’re on par, then go for it. But this rebadging crap has got to end…it’s what’s bringing down the American auto industry when Europe and Japan is bringing in fresh new pieces for us.
So I say this: if GM is gonna reface the Pontiac model, then let it stay. If not, then it should go…and while you’re at it, take Buick with you as well. Seems like the only GM brands that matter these days are Chevy, Cadillac, GMC and Saturn. And yes, I’d sooner drive a Sky than a Solstice…Red Line, black-on-black, and fully decked out.
Not that this would help many of the dealers but….
couldn’t GM sell a basic line of cars from a “GM” dealership. The “chevy” grade being basic and you upgrade to “pontiac” for sport trim, “buick” is your near-luxury option. In other words, they aren’t brands but are trim or option levels.
Oh well, it’s all I got……….
Has TTAC turned into GMI?
GMI is full of threads speculating on the future of GM’s brands and Pontiac in particular. Moderator Nsap has an editorial suggesting Pontiac is going, going, gone, while Moderator Nadepalma has an opinion piece suggesting Saturn should be dumped to save Pontiac.
IMO, it’s clear at least one of GM’s car brands has to go, either Pontiac or Saturn. To accomplish this, you could combine the ranges to create the best line up possible, i.e., kill Vibe, G5, and G6 in favor of the Astra and Aura with the G8 as a range topper with the Corsa below (with the Sky/Solstice, Torrent and possibly the Outlook going away).
I would have considered a G8 myself – but the V6 is underwhelming and the car overall not as good of an overall package in terms of features, fit/finish as other cars.
Pontiac has been tormented by wasting disease for many years. May she finally get the chance to rest in peace.
The Solstice may look good, but the Solstice/Sky twins fail to be usable as CARS. They are ergonomic abominations, with the most awful trunk and top you could imagine. Compare against the Miata which has a real trunk, a beatufully easy top, and superb, driver-centered ergonomics.
The Solstice is only a good outlier in terms of looks for GM. If you actually want to talk about being a real car, however, they are worse than usual, even by GM’s standards.
I remember Pontiac. I loved the ’64s especially. But they’re long gone. As for the Solstice, next to the Miata, it’s just a pretty face.
Will I cry about Pontiac’s demise? Not as much as I did for Oldsmobile. But it will be another nail in the coffin of GM’s great (pre-80’s)heritage, when they knew what their brands should mean.
Let’s try this, GM: put back on the market replicas of ‘61 Tri-power Venturas and ‘65 GTO’s and see what that does for sales. Oh, I know, that’s just a fantasy. But a guy can dream…
No, Pontiac at it’s zenith has been long dead. The brand is terminal and flatlining today, it’s final gasp was the Firebird which GM cruelly axed and will not resurrect with the Camaro, so really the brand is nothing more than just a name on some cars today.
There is nothing to mourn, we simply need to move on. And so does GM.
There’s no reason those nice Holden vehicles couldn’t be sold as Chevrolets just as they are in other parts of the world and without a Firebird or other cars like there’s really no reason for Pontiac to continue on.
It’s too costly and will never happen so don’t even worry about it, thank franchise laws
Found a pretty good article about it here:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/09/04/060904ta_talk_surowiecki
Jonny:
I hate to be a nag, but my late English teacher Mrs. Baird would haunt me from her grave if I didn’t point out that ‘homicide’ is the killing of a human being, while ‘homo-cide’ might be defined as, well…let’s not dredge up any archaic stereotypes, shall we?
No doubt she’ll turn over in her grave for my run-on sentence, anyway. I can’t win.
Sorry, Mrs. Baird.
I still maintain that Buick should’ve gotten the axe in 2000 instead of Oldsmobile.
And I won’t cry when Pontiac is killed, just a solemn moment of silence.
I drove by the former Pat Clark Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealership in Las Vegas today.
They quit selling GM cars. Now it’s just Pat Clark Auto Sales.
It doesn’t matter *what* GM builds, if they can’t get anyone to sell it. This is the 2nd major GM dealer in Las Vegas to close in the past month.
TriShield:
There’s no reason those nice Holden vehicles couldn’t be sold as Chevrolets just as they are in other parts of the world and without a Firebird or other cars like there’s really no reason for Pontiac to continue on.
I have a sinking feeling that GM would use the closure of the Pontiac division as an excuse (but publicly call it CAFE) to drop Zeta from North America, probably permanently.
Killing a brand and killing a car are two different things. By all means, kill Pontiac. What’s taken so long?
If there are cars worth saving, slap new fascias and Chevy badges on them and call it good.
GM should just be Chevy, Caddy, and Saturn.
Pontiac has no SUV or Trucks yet they still can’t sell?
In it’s current form it is hard to make a case to save it but I sure would miss it same as I miss Oldsmobile, what a shame. Every girl I dated had an Olds and those back seats were great, except for my wife who had a Pontiac Grand Prix that helped in the making of our daughter. It still warrented being crush despite the memories. My first car crush was the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am, I still would like to have one of those just because I think they look so cool.
I still think the brand has value and could be a great niche auto maker, just not under GM’s moronic guidance. I keep picturing it as a great value oriented BMW-like clone with American styling. Ditch all the crap in their lineup now and just have 3 stong models plus the convertible: Kappa based small sedan(or Alpha if it’s not too expensive since they weren’t smart enough to allow for a Kappa sedan), roadster with improvements, chop the G8 down to a midsize with 4&6 for engines, and just improve on the G8. Derive a Pontiac look thats a little bolder than what they do now drawing on its history and we have our driving excitment.
Then I wake up and realize it’s glued to GM at the hip and will only go down with the rest of the ship. Put them out of their misery now, while they have some dignity.
Given the existing channel “strategy” (a generous term for the current plan), there would be no point in killing Pontiac unless GMC and Buick are killed with it.
Given its lack of cash and time, GM corporate (although not all of its dealers) would be better off if it focused on building two brands than on killing one of them.
The G8 was the right landing at the wrong airport, that could have been a Chevy with a halo. Ditto some improved version of the Solstice.
Why Chevy wasn’t turned into the heir apparent, leaving the rest for a starvation diet, I can’t understand. Surely, they must know that they can’t rebuild eight brands simultaneously.
I agree that Olds should have never gotten the axe. The Aurora alone was grounds for keeping it alive, it was hands down the best all around GM car made at the time.
I would miss Pontiac, but I do agree the Chevy clones need to go. Bringing over rebadges Holdens to flesh out the lineup and let Pontiac stand alone would be one option, the other would be to just carve it down to the unique products and sell it alongside other brands in a mixed dealership.
GMC is the brand that really has no point, as everything availible as a GMC can be had as a Chevy. The right GM mix would be –
Pontiac – Chevy Dealers
Pontiac would have the sporty models, the models designed with more aggressive looks for younger consumers, and Chevy would have all the base cars and Trucks.
Buick – Cadillac Dealers
Buick would be the poor man’s Cadillac and hit the lower price points, while Cadillac would be allowed to go further upmarket.
Saturn Dealers
Give Saturn back its own unique R&D team and design staff and give them the credo to outdo Japanese style cars for the American audience. No rebadges, just a better Accord/Camry/Maxima/whatever but made in the USA.
Saab Dealers
Give Saab its own unique R&D and design staff and have it led by its own president (preferably someone in Sweden). No rebadges, just quirky stylish near-luxury models that are unlike anything else in the GM lineup.
Zeta is dead. My best friend is a GM engineer who worked on it and I asked him about the rumors earlier in the week. He texted me the official news yesterday.
Back to Pontiac, I just don’t know what the purpose of the brand is. It doesn’t look any better than a Chevy, or have a nicer interior. If there is no reason for doing something, why do it?
Re: Buick and GMC’s ability to live on after Pontiac, GMI suggests that Saturn may be merged into that sales channel in Pontiac’s place.
Just another chapter in the “How not to run an automobile company” handbook, by Rick W., et al. Pontiac was killed many years ago.
I’ve also heard the same thing from my friend inside that Holden’s Zeta platform is dead in the US. Other than the Solstice coupe there are also no new vehicles being worked on for Pontiac. No follow-up to the G8, no Firebird, nothing exciting. The brand is toast.
TriShield:
I’ve also heard the same thing from my friend inside that Holden’s Zeta platform is dead in the US. Other than the Solstice coupe there are also no new vehicles being worked on for Pontiac. No follow-up to the G8, no Firebird, nothing exciting. The brand is toast.
Oh I guess the Zeta underpins the Camaro as well.
Geez, I forgot all about that thing. That can’t be a good sign.
My dad had a ‘54 Cheiftian. I cried when he got rid of it. I don’t think I’d ever cry for Pontiac again – it’s ruined. It’s a laughing stock.
My parents had a 1979 Pontiac Bonneville when I was a small child. Dark red with a red vinyl interior. (What happened to interiors that aren’t shades of beige or gray, anyway?) It was built to police specs and my sister racked up the speeding tickets to prove it. Before that, my dad had a mid-70s Catalina sedan, and my grandfather’s last car was a light blue Catalina wagon from the last couple years of production.
I want to like Pontiacs, I really do. I’ve driven both the Solstice and the G8 and I think they’re good cars – but the Solstice’s Kappa platform appears to be doomed and the G8 will probably go the way of the GTO. Even if it doesn’t, it would do at least as well marketed as a Chevrolet.
Pontiac is a brand whose time has passed. One day I will speak of Pontiac to my children as my mother speaks of Studebaker to hers – in nostalgic tones, as of one remembering fondly a bygone age.