What did it for me were the yuppies I was surrounded by when I was growing up. Mom & Dad have had GMs since the mid-80s and are only now talking about buying Japanese vehicles again.

Their recent GM vehicles have been okay until 100K miles most of the time. What has changed their minds has been two things: my success with Hondas. I’m getting 200K miles for less trouble and cost than they are getting ~125K miles. Heck my CR-V still has the original clutch at 170K miles with ALOT of city shifting. Just one minor example.

Their other reason to even consider a Japanese vehicle is the talk of Detroit bankrupcies. They tell me they won’t take the uncertain step of buying a vehicle when the manufacturer is going bankrupt. They also won’t own a Chrysler no way, no how. Quality (lack of). And Fords? No likely either. (no compelling products).

I’m not relating this for any other reason than to say these two babyboomers who have for a couple decades believed in “Drive America” won’t be much longer.

Anyhow I drove my Mustangs and saw those 80s imports. They were miles ahead. Handling, creature comforts, the little details like intermittent wipers, etc. When I finally began buying 80s imports to replace my 81 Moostang clearly my suspicions were correct – for the type of cars I was buying. You folks can argue Mercedes vs Caddy but I was driving Moostangs and VW GTIs and Firebirds (that my friends owned, never me), and so forth. I had a huge 3.3L six making the power of a 1.8L (or even 1.6L four cylinder engine) and those little cars could scoot all while getting good mileage. Foot on the floor uses alot of gas in those little cars too.

As if I needed more to confirm my ideas about Detroit cars I had the opportunity to drive or ride in American cars in Italy. My Moostang was happiest at 60 mph. I pushed it to ~80 mph once driving to FLA and it reluctantly did the run getting truly miserable mileage. I could watch the gas needle fall to E.

In Italy I rode down cobblestone streets in American Escorts, American Horizons that were unhappy climbing steep mountain roads, took Tempos on day trips to the snowy Italian mountains, took American Cavaliers around the city trying to keep up with cars that had half the displacement and twice the suspension design, and I drove cars HARD on the autostrada racking up hours at ~100+ mph. The American cars were crap every time. We saw the effects of the Naples roads on the American cars. Blown shocks, bent wheels, alignments that would stay aligned, and more creaks and rattles than you could shake a stick at. However the little cheapo Italian cars could last decades riding these crumbling roads (the mafia controls the construction industry in Naples, siphons off funds meant for roads). Often American folks would arrive with their domestic sedans only to quickly park them in favor of an Italian compact car of some sort.

Here were tiny cars with style and gusto that were built CHEAP. These cars could be repaired when necessary cheaply or discarded in favor of another cheap car. Many had lasted decades like the thousands of tiny rear engined Fiat 500s, 650s, and their cousins.

I’ve had a hard time ever giving more than a moment’s thought to traditional Detroit vehicles. I WANT to buy American but there are few products that satisify my taste. Focus, Astra, and that’s about it. Their typical compact cars (Cavalier, Cobalt, Aveo) aren’t even in the same ballgame with the companies that build cars for Europe for me. I’m buying used compacts. The large vehicles might be fine but why would I spend my hard earned cash on a 15 mpg vehicle to haul the family around town? There is a place for a large vehicle but not in my “fleet”.

Everyone’s needs and expectations are different but it looks like more of us need a short distance car than the excess of the past 15 years regardless of the cost of gasoline. We seldom travel more than a few hours this way or that so we don’t need that big Buick or a large SUV to feel comfortable.

FWIW I don’t subscribe to the fads of the family haulers. If I need a minivan I’ll buy one. What I really need is a stylish family wagon. Right now the VW Passat or VW Jetta Sportwagon appear to leads the pack for us. Perhaps we’ll have a pair of tiny compacts for the daily drivers and something like a minivan or Passat on standby in the garage.

Good luck to Detroit but I doubt I’ll contribute more to their bank accounts aside from what our politicians have.

To drive several thousand miles of paved roads through virtually every kind of geography and climate for no other reason than a family vacation is something that only some parts of the world today enjoy outside of the United States. A big car that can waft along reliably at eighty for hours on end with no more than a thumb on the steering wheel is a good car in that environment, and Detroit rides from that era fit that bill. My father has a very well restored and maintained deep blue 1960 Pontiac Ventura coupe bubbletop with a 389 Tri-Power in it. For the most part its stock, except for things like the alloy rims its on and some motor-tweaks. That car is a good-looker by any measure. Lots of twist through most the rev-range, gets mid twenties per gallon on the freeway in overdrive. Handles like a pig, but its actually considerably better than the hippo-dynamics you’d expect. Trunk big enough to toss a MINI in as a spare car for emergencies. Safety wise the thing is a throwback, but it doesn’t need a crumple-zone; it it gets in a collision with a modern car the modern car will be its crumple-zone.

A modern construct of that car with direct injection EFI, independent suspension with disc brakes and traction control, and updated insturments in the dash and you would have an excellent car today that is better than anything Detroit sells for under $40,000 or so. I was driving that car this summer on a father-son roadtrip to the Grand Tetons in Wyoming. We at some point in Jackson Hole got stuck at a light next to a Pontiac Montana minivan. I remember looking around at the car I was in and listening to that motor idle, and then look over at the Montana. Ah, how the mighty have fallen I thought!

I owned a 1956 Chevy in 1966 that was beat. The seats were down to springs and the body was rusting away beneath the impressive hood ornamentation. Everything that could go wrong with a car went wrong with that car. I did learn valuable mechanical skills sprawled underneath it fixing the countless problems. Cars in the ‘50s were built to last a couple of years then get traded in. Compared to cars today they were POS. True the styling was dynamic and I do enjoy seeing a restored 1950’s car at shows but to own and drive one, no thanks.

Saying that we had the best cars is technically correct, though since we bombed the hell out of any competition we might have had, we should wonder why we wouldn’t. We also had the most undamaged major cities and the highest GNP in the world. Saying that we were the best, given the conditions postwar, and given the way the American manufacturers have squandered that success, seems a bit desperate.

I agree that it wasn’t boring. It was an interesting car.

It fits into the “ugly” category, except for the front clip, which was basically cribbed from the 1953-54 Studebaker Starlight/Starliner.

willbodine: Except for the hand made masterpieces from the classic era (1925-40) most American cars were (are) pretty carelessly assembled.

American cars were actually pretty well made prior to World War II. After the war, assembly quality varied more among the companies (for example, Ford had trouble with its first postwar designs, and the 1953 Studebakers were poorly built). But the GM cars (particularly the Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles), Nashes, Hudsons and later Ramblers were actually pretty well assembled.

My point exactly – hardly a thing since ‘73. The American auto industry essentially died that year. And all those innovations? Foreign auto makers did them batter, faster, cheaper while Detroit slept.

It is exactly THIS last 35 years of corporate culture which Detroit will not be able to overcome. Nearly every one of Detroit’s thousands of middle and upper management came up through the ranks during this time.

Detroit didn’t have any competition prior to the ’60s because there wasn’t any that could realistically pose a legitimate threat.

He produced an era of cars that were humpy, bumpy, dumpy and frumpy. Dull. Then finished with a bout of drunken excess. About what one would expect from recovery from (the) Depression.

Bill Mitchell broke clean from that mess (yes, I know he worked for Earl) and gave us GM’s golden era of styling.

Yuck.

Bunter

I would argue that the 1956 Porsche Speedster was the best car of the 50’s (caveat).

I would argue that the Mustang was the best car of the 60’s (impact, cost, change in buyers perception.

I would argue that the Porsche 916-6 was the best performance general public car ever.

Now as far as the most useful, reliable, most impact vehicle produced from the beginning to now? I would say any of the Big 3’s full size pickup trucks.

Caveats included.

:)

And what did Detroit do with all those innovations?

Squandered, ignored, forgotten, sold, or abandoned.

Electronic fuel injection? Didn’t go anywhere till they sold it to Bosch.

ABS? Until very recently most systems were developed by Bosch or used licensed tech. Those early domestic attempts were completely unreliable and quickly shelved. The Euros kept working.

215 V-8? GM dumped that one when? How long did Rover manage to keep that one going?

I could probably work my way down that entire list…

@Max,

I was just talking about vis-a-vis a ‘Vette. As to the Harley Earl stuff, I know some folks find it attractive, I’m in my 40’s and I always thought the Euro stuff looked better. Even as a kid. But that’s really a personal thing. I just like modern clean styling.

Also if you’re under the age of about 30, you’ll simply see a modern looking car when you see the Cit. Just waaaaaay ahead of it’s time.

Compare photos of virtually ALL THE OTHER CARS at the Paris debut of the Cit in 1955, they all look like boxes on wheels. Or, in the case of the 2CV, a corrugated shed on wheels…

I guess you aren’t familiar with the Citroen DS; of which about 1.5 million were built between 1955 and 1975.

Chrysler and DeSoto Airflow, 1934 (first cars with a modern weight distribution, one of the first attempts at aerodynamics, extremely comfortable seating – but “uuuuuugleeeeeee”)

Self-shifting transmission (REO, 1934) or if you prefer, the supposedly “modern” automatic transmission (GM Hydramatic 1939, Oldsmobile)

First synchromesh (Cadillac, 1932 or so)

First overhead camshaft four cylinder engine in a sub-compact car (Crosley, 1948)

Torque convertor lock-up three speed automatic transmission (Studebaker Automatic Drive, 1950)

Power Steering (Chrysler, 1951)

Four wheel disc brakes (Crosley, 1947), four wheel disc brakes in a heavy car (Chrysler, 1949)

Front caliper disc brakes in a mass produced, easily obtained, heavy car (Studebaker, 1963)

Dual circuit brakes (Rambler, 1963)

Front seat belts standard (Nash Rambler, 1950)

Modern filtered air heat, vent and defrost system built in (Nash, 1937)

Torison-level automatic levelling suspension (Packard, 1955, yes, a year ahead of Citroen’s famous suspension and 3 years ahead of “Detroit’s big 2″ failed air suspension systems)

Air conditioning (Packard, 1939)

Steering wheel (Packard, 1900 – imagine trying to steer a modern car with a tiller?!)

Light 1/4 ton four wheel drive utility vehicle (Willys “Jeep”, 1942)

Front engine, rear transaxle and independent rear suspension (Pontiac Tempest, 1961, a full 16 years ahead of the Porsche 928, plus, it was a car that “everyman” could afford)

First front wheel drive car with more than 200hp and with automatic transmission (Oldsmobile Toronado, 1966)

Cruise control (Imperial, 1957)

Curved side glass in order to increase the width of the interior vs. exterior size (Lincoln, 1961) in an easily affordable car (Rambler Classic and Ambassador, 1963)

Turbocharged aluminum V8 engine (Oldsmobile F-85 Jetfire, 1962)

Turbocharged aluminum pancake six (Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder, 1962 – decades ahead of Porsche)

Swivelling front bucket seats to ease entry and exit (Chrysler, 1959)

First large cars with unit construction (Lincoln, Continental and Thunderbird, 1958)

Fuel injection for cars readily available to the common man (Chevrolet and Pontiac, 1957)

Car radios (1920’s, Crosley and others)

First electro-dipping of cars to ward off rust (Rambler, 1963)

“Bring your own” car music, factory installed (Chrysler, 1956 – yes, it was a record player) or if you prefer, “bring your own” car music aftermarket (Muntz, 1964 – 4-track) or if you prefer “bring your own” car music, factory installed (Ford 1968, 8-track)

First ever diesel engine in an automobile (Clessie Cummins in the early 1930’s, in a Packard touring car)

Electronic fuel injection (Chrysler, 1957 or 1958)

Air bags (Oldsmobile and Mercury, 1974)

Catalytic convertor to vastly reduce pollution (developed in the USA, adopted for most cars by the 1975 model year) (not adopted by the “greenies” in Europe for a full decade and a half after Americans had introduced them wholesale on all cars and light trucks)

Electronic anti-lock brakes available in a popular priced and mass produced vehicle (Buick, 1971) (as opposed to an exotic European hand made specialty car)

All were AMERICAN developed innovations, all but the last 3 – prior to 1970.

That speaks volumes.

As for “style” and body innovations…

Packard Clipper, 1941 (beautiful flowing lines)

Hudson cars, 1948 (look, ma, no bulbous fenders or running boards but a smooth bodyside, a low roof line – plus “step down” interior)

First hardtop convertibles, GM, 1949

First all steel station wagons, Willys, 1948

First wrap around windshields, GM, 1953

First innovative and colorful interiors, Kaiser, 1952

First body colored, rubber bumpers, Pontiac, 1968

First hidden windshield wipers, Pontiac, 1968

Studebaker’s all-new 1948 cars – a styling sensation

Studebaker two door coupe’s and hardtops, 1953 – another styling sensation

Ford Motor Company’s Continental, 1956 – gorgeous

Chrysler Corporation’s 1957 cars – styling sensations

Ford’s Lincoln Continental, 1961 – elegance and style in it’s simplest form

GM’s Buick Riviera, 1963 – gorgeous

Studebaker’s Hawk Gran Turismo, 1962 – beautiful
(Brooks Stevens’ best effort)

AMC Javelin, 1968 (clean, nice – sporty and suave)

GT40 wasn’t bad. But Ford had to tap DeTomaso to have a sexy car in it’s lineup.

This is the kind of absurd metric used to evaluate cars that I wrote about in my above post. The press and people who recommend cars to their friends and family through this lens are a big part of what’s gone wrong in motorland.

Harley Earl is justly celebrated, but we should note that he also oversaw the atrociously chromed-up ‘58 Olds and Buicks.

A new full-sized Chevrolet, for example, even loaded with options such as power steering and brakes, an automatic transmission, and powerful V-8 engine, was within the grasp of the average American consumer. (Curiously, there were also a large number of compact and mid-sized American cars sold that still had rather anemic 6-cylinder engines. Powerglide was still an option at GM until the late 1960s (and probably even into the early 1970s).

The Interstate system was close to being finished and you could drive coast-to-coast at 80 mph, well 70 mph with the cops out. Sure, American cars didn’t handle as well as some Europeans. But we’re a large country with large flat plains. We don’t need no handling. We just drive in straight lines from “Point A” to “Point B” anyway.

The American cars of the 1960s weren’t as reliable as they should have been, but they were comparatively simple and easy to repair and also comparatively inexpensive to replace with a new one.

The area of cars I’m speaking of is not an area that encompasses the design and building of cars mass marketed to the consumer. Those cars exist in a different realm altogether.

The consumer realm is filled with vanilla flavoured, jelly bean shaped small to midsized sedans powered by lifeless generic engines. These cars cost a bundle and they don’t last very long. They’re built with the intent to cut costs and maximise profits (read: build cheaply and sell at 500% markup). A few of these cars are well built machines but most of them suck. The longer you own them the more they suck. Each year at the North American International Auto Show the world’s automakers tease us by presenting automotive works of art while they introduce cars for the consumer that suck more than the previous year. It’s time to be honest. America doesn’t build the best cars in the world anymore because nobody builds the best cars in the world anymore.

In the 60’s, the streets of Europe were full of Opels, German, French and English Fords, Volvos, Saabs, Fiats, Peuegots, Renaults, and Volkswagens so far the eye could see. And the problem was, all the american offerings were too big, to costly to own and maintain, too thirsty, etc. The Swedish Police bought in Plymouth Valiants as police cruisers, as the smallest car from the american compact car sector was bigger than the biggest of the european offerings.

By not following the needs of the europeans, the americans had made themselves redundant in Europe as early as 1960. And they have never caught up. Once in a while there’s an occasional Jeep Cherokee or a Dodge Caravan that fills a need the europeans want. But otherwise, american cars stopped being good sometimes before Hudson stopped making cars.

Don’t listen to them Johnny – We did make the best cars in the world, once upon a time.