In fact, one thing the NHTSA report on SUVs showed is that in recent years, car vs car fatalities have gone down. In fact, a steady decline. SUV vs Car fatalities have remained constant since SUVs have established their 40% presence on roads. Is that the fault of car designers who are unable to keep up with the increasing amount of super-utes on the road? Or is it the fault of people who keep buying mega-SUVs? Despite the efforts of Volvo and other safety inclined companies, one can only do so much in 6000 vs 3000 pound impacts.

The efforts of the NHTSA have made some impact. Look at the front bumber height of newer, normal size SUVs like the Grand Cherokee. Lower and with crumple zones. Greatly negating their effect on cars when they collide. But there is only so much you can do for a hummer or F150 without detracting from their advertised off road ability.

I think we should keep in mind that the super-utes are the main culprits today. Thankfully, despite advertising, people realized that super-utes are really hard to drive and far too large…as LC pointed out. That, combined with gas prices, should make our roads safer.

But, there are still some who are willing to suffer through high gas prices and the inability to park anywhere in order to get the feeling of physical superiority against other SUVs/cars on the road. And they dont seem willing to give that up any time soon.

I have seen cars that had motorcycles go THROUGH them. At highway speeds, crumple zones generally do diddly. Force is ALWAYS a factor. Sure, at slower speeds the bumper height makes a difference.

Fine, try and legislate bumper heights. Don’t squeel when every car looks stupid though. I will bring my bumper down when everyone else does. Oh, and yes, when the sports cars bring theirs up as well.

BTW, I won this argument here months ago because once I pointed out that everyone’s suspension will have to be tightened to eliminate nose dive, and that the bumpers will need to be a foot high from bottom to top to ensure that the bumpers ACTUALLY meet in 80% of the cases.

The result would not be to eliminate SUV’s but to eliminate cars. Everyone would need to be in an SUV.

Actually, the Excursion got dropped precisely because it was too big. Once people started trying to live with it, they found out that the extra room inside came with too much size outside.

Josh,

I listed the different models of SUV for a reason. I doubt very much that mom’s in suburbans are trying to fool you into thinking they are macho, exteme sports types. Around here, most suburbans are used just like minivans, and in my mind have a similar image. Of course, this is Texas. Likewise, I don’t think the X5 and Cayenne buyers are going for those images either.

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong at all in buying stuff that has a style you like. Just because you are not a hiker or soldier, you may like cargo pants. I wear cargo pants all the time, even when I don’t need to put MRE’s in them. For over a decade my old BDU’s have been in the closet, but I may bring them out again now that they are not the current uniform. Wonder if anyone will accuse me of posing as a soldier? That will be fun.

“There’s something gratifying about pulling up next to a Hummer in a factory 4×4 pickup and knowing the H2 driver has to look up to see you. That same feeling of utter superiority also shines bright when you cruise by someone in a big 4×4 dualie–and you’re the one towing a 30-foot trailer.

Such are the joys driving one of the biggest, sickest four-wheel-drive pickups on the market–the GMC TopKick or its brand twin, the Chevrolet Kodiak.”

Ahhh…the feeling of utter superiority. Sometimes, the Super-ute crowd do little to diffuse the general perception that their personalities are a touch on the abrasive side :)

I would be in support of manipulating the rules so that someone has to take an “SUV Drivers Test” or something along those lines. To make sure the driver’s spatial awareness and defensive driving are up to snuff in a large vehicle. But you are right. The government is likely going to take no steps. And, unfortunately, the only thing driving the Mega-SUV popularity down is gas prices.

But the licensing process has to be changed. There is no way a person who got their license by driving a civic is fit to go out and buy a (extreme example) GMC Topkick and not have to take any additional training. Being thats the case, I’m surprised more Mega-SUVs did not become bigger than they are. Perhaps they would have had gas prices not started to climb years ago.

Here is the rub. Sure, an SUV is more dangerous, all things being equal, to the other car. However, in the real world, all things are never equal.

If we had better ways to reward good judgement, and punish the bad, then all would be fine. We don’t, in fact, our government consistently tries to reduce the outcomes of bad judgement, at the expense of good judgdement, at EVERY turn.

I do not drive my crusher like I did my BMW. My BMW was rarely found on the right side of the highway, while my crusher is rarely seen on the left. Still, force is equal to mass times velocity squared. The BMW was more dangerous to others based simply on force of impact because it was almost always driven more quickly.

Of course, that is with me at the wheel. There are plenty of people who have no business driving at all, and still more who badly need training and judgement. However, as a society, we have a hard time telling people they cannot drive, or that they need more training, or that they have poor judgement. We make rules for the least common denominator. Then everyone plays within the rule system.

Anyone who wants to get rid of some or all SUV’s would do better to find a positive way to manipulate the rules of the road that would encourage owners to buy smaller cars. The quickest and easiest would be to regulate them like passenger cars. Good luck getting the Democrats to convince the UAW to go along with that.

According to marketing, nature-loving outdoorsy types drive SUVs. Rugged folks. People who are manly (according to focus groups, no doubt). I’d say, as a consumer, that is the image that is sold, and why SUVs aren’t referred to as mommymobiles, and minivans are, even though that same demographic fled to SUVs.

Based on your posts, YOU are not a poseur. You had good reasons to purchase an SUV, and bought one. The marketing works since people eat that shit up like a steak buffet, because it’s much easier to purchase a lifestyle, rather than lead one. It is much like those who claim to love camping, but rent cabins with electricity and running water and refrigerators and showers and beds and cable, and report back to their buddies that they were “roughing it non-stop for the weekend.” Image generation is our national pastime, not as an end to activity, but as a means for fashion. Watch any amount of TV and you’ll learn just how easy it is (and, well, it’s on there because it works). You can construct any faux-lifestyle you want these days with publicly-displayed products that can be financed for as long as you care to pay.

I agree that most SUV owners are not ignorant and selfish. Many SUV owners understand that a large SUV hitting a car will cause more damage than other vehicles. And they understand that they need more time to stop so they give themselves more room.

Its the people that claim a large SUV poses no more risk to others in a collision that I worry about. Because its quite obvious that if they dont believe that (or simply don’t care), then its not affecting how they drive. And as a result they often drive too fast and too close. I had guy in a F250 ride my ass (about 5 feet away) on the highway going 140kmph (I had speed up to try and make distance, he just move right on up). If anything had caused me to slam my brakes, I would have died. If it was a car behind me, the drivers still an ass but death would not have been as certain. I would have been rear ended hard, but not driven over, big difference :) But I also know most people do respect what they are driving and what it can/cannot do. And my gripe is not with them in anyway.

The typical SUV driver scares the ever-loven crap out of me when it’s headlights are right about the level of my rear view mirror or above the roof (in the hick towns, but that is another type of fear) Its because i drive a sports car that weights less than 2600 pounds, which is like throwing spit-wads at a locomotive, when i am in an accident with a lifted excursion, towing a boat, with 19 passengers.

I say get rid of them and offer a “pedal and trade” to all suv owners that are upside-down on their loans. Trade your suv for a bike for ever person in your family……whois the locomotive now?

Have you actually calculated the cost of renting a truck “occasionally”?

I have. It is cheaper to own an SUV if I need one more than 3 times a year. Of course it will vary by person, but I do not believe you are using all the actual costs in your decision making. OTOH, maybe you are one of those people who drives too many miles per year, but is concerned about how much gas I use. Or, maybe you think your desire to see through my car (as if I were not there at all) is somehow a higher priority than my reasons for having the larger vehicle? (Maybe what you would really like is for us all to just get out of your way, or behave just like you do?)

Secondly, exactly how high and wide should cars be allowed to be? How will you decide who can have trucks and who cannot? Why do you need so badly to see around the car in front of you? Have you tried to stop tailgating? I think you will find that if you are not tailgating, then you will not have a need to see in front of the car in front of you. This is key to safe driving, because I doubt you want to eliminate ALL trucks from the road.

As badly as you guys all want to think that the SUV owners are just a bunch of rude idiots, perhaps you should all think about the idea that there may be a reason so many people buy them that isn’t thoughtless.

If that were not true, I would be free to walk around pushing people over. But I’m not allowed. And I would not even be killing anyone.

The main problem is trying to convince some SUV owners of the possible danger they pose to others. Some people will ask for reports that prove dropping 10 pound weights on people’s heads can harm them, if said person had an investment in hanging weights from trees. And when you present that proof, they either dismiss it or simply say “I am free to do what I want.” *sigh*

I think this is the key element to the equation of why I’d prefer not to have as many SUVs on the road. It’s not necessarily the SUVs themselves, it’s that drivers suck in general, and in turn, putting so many SUVs on the road is a danger to everyone, including the owners. Sure, injuries and deaths on roadways are continuing to drop, but making me, as a consumer who tries to limit my metal to less than 3000lbs and over 30mpg for my commutes, more than 300% more likely to get injured IS pushing your “religion” on me, and that’s where I have a problem.

You said, “Most of the SUV’s that I see on the road have one passenger, and are hauling nothing heavier than a Coach handbag. SUV’s are now nothing more than motorized bling for posers, much like today’s Harley Davidsons.”

Let’s take this apart, shall we?

First, most of the SUV’s have one passenger. Of course, your anecdotal evidence means nothing. This would be true if every SUV spent every weekend full of 8 passengers while towing a house boat off road.

Motorized Bling for posers. What, in your mind, are the following vehicles allowing their drivers to pose as?

Suburban
Tahoe
Land Cruiser
FJ Cruiser
RX 350
Cayenne
X5
Hummer H2
Wrangler

We all know that the Harley poser is supposedly someone who wants to project a tougher image, or a cool one. I think Harley’s are obnoxious, uncomfortable, poorly tuned public nuisances. But some people think that they are some how “cool”. How did that ever happen? Was there once a “cool” person who owned one? Is that where it comes from?

If so, then what kind of person are the SUV owners trying to pretend to be. I was unaware of my desire to impress people with some image of myself, so I await your learned analysis with baited breath.

And at the same time spending $100+ a month on Starbucks, a new LCD TV on the Best Buy credit card, buying Coach purses and $100 Nike tennis shoes some child in Malaysia makes 1500 pairs a day for $.75 pay. Its only expensive because the news is telling you it is, that or you are living beyond your means already.

Well said.

The biggest offenders I’ve come across are the suburban housewives – especially the short ones who can barely see over the steering wheel driving at 80 mph, while at the same time yapping on the cell phone and yelling at their 3.5 kids in the back seats.

I make a point to steer CLEAR of these individuals…

There are plenty of good reasons to buy SUVs, but none of them apply to me, so I don’t own one,

If you don’t need one, don’t buy one. I own an older Nissan Pathfinder because I find it’s often useful. But it’s only one car in our garage. We also have a TSX and, hopefully soon, a Miata hardtop convertible.

It may seem crazy to some if a person has a large SUV as their ONLY vehicle, but how do you really know what that person’s whole life is like?

I don’t have a problem with people driving SUVs. I have a problem with people driving SUVs BADLY! Too fast, too close, not enough respect for 2-3 tons of metal under them…

Interesting. How heavy is a Maybach? Maybe, if the 57 is under the 6,000 pound mark, the 62 would practically pay for itself?

If this is the land of the free, and you are free to drive whatever you want, why am I not free to hate you for wasting fuel, destroying the environment, and hogging the road?