The reaction to my musings on BMW's X6 has been fast and spurious. TTAC readers do not want. Pulling out a random gripe from the comments gives us Pete_S4's take, "I still don't get this vehicle. It's absurdly heavy, very thirsty, and has little space for such a big vehicle. Like many recent German vehicles it's all justified by a pile of electronics. Briefly I can feel the seduction of such vehicles. But it only takes a weekend at the track to remind why we like to turn off all of these electronics." And while he's right, I would argue 99 percent of the time 90 percent of an SUV's utility is totally and utterly wasted. No one tows anything, the third row has a duffel bag on it and they (almost) universally suck eggs to drive. At least the X6 is honest in its dishonesty. Anyhow, gas prices have continued to increase, rising five cents in the last two weeks. So I ask you, are SUVs dead?
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I think SUV’s as we’ve known them over the past 15 years are dead.
The body-on-frame SUV will go back to what it once was, a vehicle that fulfills a very specialized need. That need will be for something that seats at least 4, has an enclosed, protected cargo area and retains a significant towing capability.
They’ll likely fall into two categories: Wrangler class offroad units with limited towing and Suburban class “Texas wagons” with pickup-grade towing but gives up a bit on the offroad capability.
All the current soft-roaders including most current compact and midsize SUV/CUV’s will continue to trend towards what they should have been in the first place: all-wheel drive station wagons.
The AMC Eagle is laughing in its grave.
I doubt SUVs are dead. They will get smaller, and lower, and more like the station wagons we grew up with. But even these need to get more efficient. And smaller.
Remember when a totally stripped out car with a huge engine was the fastest, coolest thing? Well I predict the same, but with the most efficient engine. I wouldnt mind to get rid of all that sound deadening insulation, carpet, 6-CD changer, electric everything, and end up with a real usable, safe, efficient car.
For sure the used ones are going to be around for a long time.The body on frame truck based are as tough as nails.The good news is that gas prices will put a limit on thier daily use.
Yes, the vehicles still have a market and fit into certain niches. They weren’t terribly popular before the period between 1995 and 2005 and they are beginning to decline in popularity again, but there is no reason for them to go away. There is still a need to move people and tow loads. In my undergraduate geology field camp, we had 8 Suburbans and a couple of trailers moving about 45 folks thousands of miles through the West over rugged and unimproved roads. The Chevys excelled at both comfort and efficiency. SUV’s are fun, and useful unlike a performance car which is merely fun. Like the performance car, they are perhaps not practical as everyday transportation any longer. Make no mistake about it, SUV’s can be performance vehicles as well. Moab is to the Jeep as the Autobahn is to BMW.
I think we will see the SUV branch fork into two:
1. Station wagons will return (marketing weasels will probably call them CUVs or some such), some with AWD
2. Small SUVs, like CRV will likely survive with minor modifications, more fuel efficient engines.
The big SUVs will slowly wither away.
And I agree, AMC Eagle was way ahead of its time.
I do own an SUV (Isuzu Rodeo Sport, my wife’s actually), and it’s a great vehicle for its intended purpose. I take it camping off road, pull a trailer on occasion — its 3500# towing capacity allowed me to pull home an MG, and it’s great for a yard trailer — and handle the really big snow storms (I live in the UT mountains). Don’t want a pickup truck, and this works great for 4 people, and gets 20 mpg or so. It’s a bit of a pig to drive, but comfy, and hey, it’s a truck after all. I’m not expecting it to be a sports car. We carpool together to work in a small hatchback, so the gas mileage is not an issue.
A small, strong SUV works nicely as a small pickup replacement, since most of the time I’d rather have the clean, enclosed hauling space. A cheap yard trailer handles the dirty jobs, and is only used when needed. Not sure what we’ll replace it with when the time comes, though, since they don’t sell this model in the USA anymore. Jeep Wrangler’s probably as close as it comes, but a bit pricey for what you get.
All that said, if I didn’t need the off road ability, then I’d rather have something with better on-road ability. If I had kids, I’d just get a minvan — all the practicality with better road manners. Since I have no kids, I’d prefer a station wagon with similar towing ability (old cars and motorcycles pretty much require a trailer at hand).
I second all the previous posts.
Now for the sarcastic moment: SUVs are extremely useful:
- they have poorer fuel economy and therefore help us reach peak oil faster
- they sit higher on the road, thus blocking everybody else’ field of vision
- while they’re not safer than passenger cars due to their propensity to rollover, they’re much more likely to kill the passenger of cars they plow into.
What’s not to like? And you get all this by justifications such as “I need the room, tow often, and go off-road”, even though it’s untrue 95$ of the time.
Of course there are good reasons to buy SUVs. But the X6, as far as I can tell, is not actually an SUV. It’s an extra-heavy, extra-tall hatchback.
There is no good reason for buying an SUV just like there is no good reason for buying a sports car. Both should exist for the same reason, for people who want to buy them. And that is a good enough reason for me.
I don’t own an SUV. I know some that own SUV’s their excuses are generally, kids, towing, room, safety, winter driving (LOL) and for clients.
One one is really legit, my former co worker has horses and needs the towing capacity.
OEM’s don’t want the SUV to die they make huge profits of them.
It’s a somewhat ambiguous question as the term ‘SUV’ encompasses everything from a RAV4 to a Suburban.
Small SUVs work well as tall hatchbacks – they are both practical and economical.
Mid size unibody SUVs, like the CX-7, make no sense at all – they get miserable mileage while offering no more space or towing capacity than a wagon.
The body on frame SUV has its place for those who need to tow or regularly drive on dirt roads that could damage minivans or wagons.
A lot of people complain about SUV’s blocking their vision in front of them. I say it’s better than having one ride your bumper and taking up your entire rearview mirror.
Nah…they’ve been around for 50+ years (I’m thinking that the old Carryall Suburban was the grandfather of the Tahoe, Sequoia, etc.) and I think they’ll continue on for a long while into the future. They’ll just be the exception rather than the rule. The parking lot of your local Target won’t be crammed with them anymore. Too thirsty, not practical. There are better choices for grocery getting and kid hauling now.
I never thought I’d say this, but I see more utility and sense in a vehicle like the Chevy Avalanche than I do in something like the X6. It seats 5, can pull a big trailer, and has a larg-ish flat cargo area that can get dirty. Same goes for the Honda Ridgeline.
Aside from towing or hauling heavy loads or routinely driving in severe road or weather conditions – no.
Many truck-based SUVs have been watered down with low bodywork, lowered suspensions and other compromises that further erode their truck-based advantages to boot.
The true SUV will always have a role in towing and off-road conditions. The CUV is for the people who must get a higher up view of the road to look down on people, but still want some fuel economy. SUV’s will never ever die completely but it wont be the future choice for soccer moms anymore, i think that niche will be filled with CUVs and Minivans. It will be interesting to see the OEMs have to cut back production of the SUVs as the cost of fuel continues to rise.
Sure, there’s good reasons to buy SUVs. When gas hits $4/gallon, though, or, better yet, $5/gallon, people will tend to buy them only for the good reasons and stop buying them for the stupid reasons. We should have forced this point years ago with a sizeable gas (or oil or carbon) tax.
Ever watch people drive these things in a parking lot? I swear, if I ever want to get my car totalled out, I’ll just pull up behind some cell-phoning soccer mom in her bad-ass SUV and let her back the thing into the side of my car. Not a one of them ever actually looks behind when they back up, they just pull out slowly, presuming whatever’s behind them will scatter when they see the behemoth moving. At $4/gallon, this sort of anti-social behavior will decline. Well, the driver will still be an idiot but the driver will be an idiot in a vehicle sized more competitively with mine.
Here’s the bad part… at $4/gallon, people will dump these and they’ll become cheap wheels for teens.
Compensation?
If driving (or getting from place to place) were about practicality, we would drive nothing but minivans and four-door sedans.
Not to say that SUV’s aren’t practical. I know several (older) women at my church who have small SUV’s. They really do have them for the all-weather capabilities and even their somewhat limited cargo carrying capabilities. They are awfully handy when taking supplies to the food bank.
I used to give SUV drivers hell until I pissed off a friend of mine for teasing him for driving an Expedition. He has a small printing company (he uses the Ex for pickups and deliveries) plus five kids and a boat for recreation. He doesn’t want to license, maintain and fuel possibly several vehicles when he can keep his fleet down to two vehicles, a minivan and a SUV. When I thought about it, that made sense.
I have since changed my tune about each person’s choices, as if my choices were held up to scrutiny, I may not like it so much, myself…
I think SUV’s will be around for a long time. Like another post-er here noted, probably not in the configuration we’re familiar with right now.
My mother has a mid 90’s Chevy S10 Blazer. She lives out in the country, and she has horses. She needs something to pull the horse trailer, and about 20 times every winter the road gets snowed in. She has a Toyota Yaris as a daily commuter, and the Blazer when needed. For her, it is the perfect car, though I have always wanted an XJ Cherokee or classic Range Rover. For all other people that don’t have her needs, an SUV is un-needed and totally pointless. I guess about 95% of all SUV-owners could do with something else. And if you need to pull that boat-trailer twice a year, why don’t you buy an old pick-up truck for, like, nothing? Or perhaps rent a truck for those occasions? Driving an SUV to and from the job on the highway is just silly.
Well it’s so uncouth to just literally throw money – but if you drop $150 filling up – everyone knows how you roll. :)
I’d say that the Rubicon and Moab are to true off road vehicles what the ‘bahn is to German autos.
I’m one of the few people in the minority who actually uses his SUV for its designed purpose. I choose my 06 Liberty because it was the only small SUV out there with a true, level selectable “4LO” range. I also live in an area with an abundance of off road trails (the eastern end of the Rubicon is ~1hr from my driveway) and 4-6 weeks of severe winter weather.
Even still if I could go back in time I get a economical sedan like a Civic, Prius or Impreza as well as a 10 yr old beater Jeep Wrangler for weekend off road fun.
Increasing fuel prices are making many people take a long hard look at their actual versus perceived needs in a vehicle.
SUVs are retreating into the niche from which they emerged in the early 90s. Between CAFE and $4/gal gas I suspect that we will see less and less of SUVs and pickups being used a daily drivers.
SUV’s will be around for a while. The large ones like Tahoes, Suburbans and such won’t sell as many but will still be needed for specific jobs. The Mid-sized CUV’s like the Murano, Edge, CX-7 are today’s station wagons. They may get more fuel efficient but don’t expect them to get much smaller. Gone are the days of one car families and road trips in big sedans or the Country Squire. Americans like room for stuff, in their houses and in their cars. There is also the mentality that still exists that bigger is better, safer, stronger and you are getting more for your money. It’s going to take a long time, much higher gas cost as well as taxes to changing that thinking.
As to wagons offering the same space as SUV/CUV’s I’d have to disagree. My wife had an Subaru Outback at the same time I had a Nissan Murano and I had a ton more room for cargo and passengers than she did. She also only got about 3-4 more MPG too.
Ideally people should just go back to mini-van’s of various sizes as they are normally cheaper and more fuel efficient than mid and large SUV/CUV’s.
Towing your boat/ATV, or if you have more than 2 active, outdoorsy kids. Otherwise, it’s just to avoid being seen in a minivan or wagon.
I like this question of the day thing…
My good reason is I have three children and a boat/camper we like to take with us on summer outings. Yard waste and other dirty things to be hauled away from both our house and cottage. For that we have chevy avalanche. It serves as strictly a third vehicle racking up 5500 miles in the past 12 months. It fills a roll the Honda Odyssey can’t because the drivetrain would not stand the abuse. Were the automakers to build a station wagon that could actually tow I could definitely think of trading it away but they don’t and so there it is. The downside to this is that its a gm vehicle and true to form it has spent 24 days at the dealer in 11 months of ownership (purchased new) but i knew what I was getting into.
Now I know someone will argue that my boat wastes precious petrol as does my avalanche and that having fun with my family isn’t a good reason. I am sorry for anyone that has such a dismal view.
Reading this I had a Clarkson moment…
…the best use of an SUV – driving as fast as possible around London without having paid the congestion fee :-) Freedom!
I hope wagons make a come-back. With a wagon, you can have a decent sized cargo area without sacrificing fuel economy. I’m not too crazy about CUV’s, the raised suspension isn’t doing much good in a vehicle like that, and I’d rather have a lower center of gravity.
We need both small and mid-sized wagons with fuel-efficient engines.
The Prius is the most popular hybrid because it is a mid-sized wagon (or “hatchback”, the point being that its mid-sized). A lot of people think its because it looks green. That’s not it all. It’s an extremely practical vehicle — plenty of space for passengers and plenty of cargo space. There’s not many vehicles competing in the fuel-efficient mid-sized wagon category. And that is one of the reasons it made it on my short-list.
The Hyundai Elantra Touring is an example of the type of vehicles we need, and its also on my short-list. I wish Honda made a Civic Wagon (not hatchback), I would have bought one. The Fit is nice, but I want something a little bit bigger than a sub-compact hatchback.
What I really want to know is you plan to convince all these stupid suburban housewives to drive mini-vans.
“Look lady, you are a mom. You will never be 19 again, ever. Deal with it. And stop talking on the phone while you are driving.”
If you’re running a lodge in the mountains between Chile and Argentina, and you’ve got a three hour drive to the nearest large airport – on dirt roads, then you’ll need one.
http://fishing-lodges.gordonsguide.com/riosazules/gallery.cfm
There are plenty of good reasons to buy SUVs, but none of them apply to me, so I don’t own one, and can’t foresee a need to do anything that a minivan can’t do.
However, I’m bothered that they sold in such absolutely absurd numbers for the last 15 years. It has made my efforts to stay in more efficient cars less safe (statistically), and I don’t appreciate that. And, the good reasons also don’t apply to more than 2% of the SUV owners I’ve met (and living in Texas, that’s MOST of the people I meet). Anecdotal, yes, but shunning a van because it’s a “mommymobile” only to buy an SUV identical to all of the other moms is…flawed logic. But that clearly doesn’t drive American consumerism. Also, when did draping hundreds of pounds of steel and glass on top of a truck make it safer? And seeing further only provides more time to…wait for it…corral the weight penalty extracted by the height gain. Marketing won the psychological game despite common sense, statistical data, and arguably, better vehicles.
if you think road noise isn’t a big deal try being a salesman faced with the jeep patriot/compass. The problem is people want cars that doen’t exist. Cars with amazing potential utility while getting unrealistic miliage with 5 star everything rating and total comfort with great performance in straight lines and handling. Thats the needs/wants list i get from everyone who walks in this showroom.
I never saw the point in SUVs for everyday use. I’m a car guy.
When it came time for the wife to get a new vehicle, she gave the following parameters:
• Hold price to low 20’s.
• Had to sit up high. Minivan? She’s been there, done that with 9 yrs in a Voyager. Truck? Nope.
• No 4 cyl. At least a small V6. Has to be able to merge.
• Good mileage. okaaay. I tell maybe 20 mpg, tops.
• Good warranty.
• Doesn’t want to feel cramped. Has to haul at least 5 at times.
• Doesn’t want a truck ride.
The list of potential vehicles has shrunk considerably at this point.
We end up with an 07 Hyundai Santa Fe. Bought it just as they were appearing at dealers in late 06. I helped narrow the list but it was entirely her decision. She is very happy with it after 1.5 years. Therefore hubby is happy.
It gets 18 mpg around town with the 2.7 V6.
Surprising room in 2nd row.
Very car like ride. Hyundai warranty is good.
Small note – the doors on these close like a German car – very satisfying.
SUV’s are popular because:
1) You can haul a lot of stuff in them (more usable space compared to say, a Sedan)
2) You can tow with them (I actually know of a few people who do)
3) Winter driving (AWD + slightly higher ground clearance can make a whopping difference, especially in the rust belt.)
4) Typically more comfortable for passengers (especially in the rear seat.)
5) Shorter people really like the driving position.
6) They tend to be heavier, so they are more comfortable for long trips over bad asphalt.
Could most of these be accomplished with a Wagon? Well, yes, but that’s basically what those “crossovers” are. Now, I personally prefer wagons, and if you’re going to build a 400hp ‘beast,’ make it a wagon.
Friends who have SUVs say they bought them because they need the towing capacity and the off-road abilities that regular cars don’t have. None of these people tow anything nor have they ever been off-road, on purpose. Advertising creates the perceived need to tow and go off-road and people want to be the type of person who engages in these activities. Most use the SUV as a commuter vehicle. Granted that some people actually tow with an SUV and may actually go off-road but I would wager that the greater percentage of SUV owners don’t. SUVs are status symbols and until they become too expensive or too much of a social liability they will be around for a while. They fulfill a need that advertising creates. The need to feel like you are the type of person who would need to drive a SUV. Advertising works that’s why they spend so much money on it.
I needed an SUV (or truck) a couple of years ago when I was working in the oilfield. You just aren’t going to get anywhere on some of the oilfield roads during muddy times without a competent 4X4. I also needed something with enough space to carry everything I need to live in a rig trailer for a couple of months. I got a ‘98 Pathfinder with a 5 speed, manual transfer case, and 31″ tires. I liked it, but didn’t like buying gas for it after I left the job that payed me to own and drive it.
Agree that most people that bought large SUV’s in the last decade bought mostly on appearance/vanity. However, being very active in Scouts, we use one of our Assistant Scoutmaster’s Suburban on just about every campout we go on. His is one of the few vehicles in the Troop that can haul a trailer full of five chuckboxes, plus tents, 25-35 people’s worth of personal gear, dining flies, etc…does he drive it every day? No. Does it fit the use intended, absolutely. Is he justified in buying it? I think the kids (and adults!) would say so. Now, are 7/10ths of the Suburbans/Expeditions/etc…used as such? By my daily commute’s reckoning, not even close. I agree with the assessment here that purchases of such beasties will diminish back to those that truly NEED such a vehicle, as opposed to those that simply want to be SEEN in them.
Fair disclosure: I hate SUVs. I, as an enthusiast, simply cannot abide them. I wasted a great deal of time attempting to talk my sister and brother-in-law out of buying one. I hate being stuck behind a brontosaurus going 58 mph in the left lane, I hate having to lay on my horn as some vacuous blond attempts to back over my car at the grocery store. I genuinely hate them.
That said, I don’t understand the posts stating that X percent of SUV drivers don’t ‘need’ them. No one ‘needs’ a car, as evidenced by the fact that human civilization predates the automobile. No one needs a television, a computer, a cell phone or any of our modern conveniences. In a way, each of these items is just as wasteful as an SUV. Moreover, who are we to be the arbiters of what others purchase? If some still wish to buy the behemoths with fuel at $4/gallon, more power to them. Ultimately, as long as we wish to remain a prosperous society (please don’t cite the current recession, as these are of course cyclical and as inevitable as death) we need to maintain personal economic freedom. Which means that we have to live with the (stupid) choices that others may make.
Luxury SUV’s should never existed in the first place. I think that is the main point of people critical of the X-6. On the other hand, the Suburban has been around since before WWII and still has some “utility” left in its design. They make more sense than a crew cab pickup with a five foot bed.
My son-in-law bought a Border Patrol green used Suburban and its a hoot to drive it to Home Depot. You should see the day laborers scatter!
That said, I don’t understand the posts stating that X percent of SUV drivers don’t ‘need’ them. No one ‘needs’ a car…
I need some sort of vehicle to drive me around, it needs to be fairly practical, fun to drive and have at least some beauty and prescense.
But say that it began to be fashionable driving around in trucks, and now I don’t talk about pick-ups, but real trucks, 18-wheelers. “yeah, need that towing ability” and “likes to sit up high”. “But how many times do you really need to haul a whole container?” one might ask. “Well, it’s not what I actually need, but that I actually can…” is the answer you get then…
The point is, SUVS, as used by the majority, is a very unefficient and wasteful way of using resources, as they are practically never ever used for its made intentions. If you never actually go off-road, do you need to pay for the ability? If you never haul stuff, why drive around in something that big, wasting fuel just for nothing? If you want something to tow your boat, TWICE a year, does it pay to drive around in a truck the rest of the year as well?
You can say you want to drive around in trucks and suvs, but if you don’t actually need them, say that you do it for fun then, and not because of all the stuffing/towing/boating/camping you never do anyway. Say: “I don’t care about the environment. I want to be seen as a wildlife explorer. I drive around in a gas-guzzling SUV just for fun !!!! And f**k you!”
If you need a large cargo capacity, and have to deal with heavy show or poorly-surfaced roads, it makes perfect sense.
If you don’t have any of these issues, but you just like to schlep around in a manly big truck, it’s your money and your gas money and if that’s how you want to spend it, it’s still a free country last time I looked. Me, I want four cylinders, five speeds, and six seconds 0-60.
My folks hsd 2 Suburbans when I was a kid, a 49 and a 54. In the 80s, when my own kids were little, I had a series of Jeep Grand Wagoneers. My wife liked them and we have a 700′ driveway. We used to take the kids to the beach and the wags are excellent beach buggies. When gas topped 1.25$ a gallon, I stopped using them as commuters. I still have one for occasional use. It sees about 1000 miles a year.
Our Hyundai Accent (main car that complements a Rodeo Sport) replaced a Subaru Outback wagon 4 years ago. I didn’t need the space in the Subaru, and the Hyundai gets 10 mpg more. It’s a very efficient car, in the sense that I regularly use most of it’s capacity (speed, hauling). It’s the one we’ll wear out first. When we do drive the Rodeo, it’s for the things it does well, and the trade offs are worth it. The Hyundai can’t tow anything, and I’d rip it to shreds if it went on some of my camping trips. It will cruise at the speed limit, however, and handles the mountain grades just fine. I have great appreciation for a vehicle who’s full abilities you can use.
I do hope that we’re getting back to where folks buy a SUV (or other car/truck) based on their needs, not just their image appeal. That’s a tough one, since we have such a culture of car-as-status here in the USA.
thebigmass :
April 7th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
That said, I don’t understand the posts stating that X percent of SUV drivers don’t ‘need’ them. No one ‘needs’ a car, as evidenced by the fact that human civilization predates the automobile. No one needs a television, a computer, a cell phone or any of our modern conveniences. In a way, each of these items is just as wasteful as an SUV. Moreover, who are we to be the arbiters of what others purchase? If some still wish to buy the behemoths with fuel at $4/gallon, more power to them. Ultimately, as long as we wish to remain a prosperous society (please don’t cite the current recession, as these are of course cyclical and as inevitable as death) we need to maintain personal economic freedom. Which means that we have to live with the (stupid) choices that others may make.
Thank you.
They’re wounded, although not dead. I doubt that they’ll ever go back to their heyday, but I do see a chance for a bit of a comeback coming.
I’m going to stick myself out on a limb here, and predict that oil prices are most likely going to start falling next year, particularly if the US shows signs that it is going to start withdrawing from Iraq.
If I’m right, gas will find its way back to the $2.00-2.50/gallon range. Once that happens, SUV sales will start picking up again. It won’t be quite like before, but sales will improve from their present levels, and some of the hybrid chic factor will be lost in the process.
I have a Volvo station wagon. It holds me plus six kids, or lawnmowers, bicycles, TVs, chairs, etc, and looks and drives like a car. And gets 25mpg. And gets out of its own way off the line. I never did get SUVs and I still don’t.
I went from a Ford Explorer to a Ford Escape. Easier to park, but it doesn’t hold as much stuff. And I can’t tow generators with it. But it is easier to park.
No.
More SUV bashing I see. Note that many of the minivans on the market, now that they are getting large engines, have mileage that is not much better than some SUV’s. My wife’s Odyssey gets that same actual mileage as my X5, and the X5 is not broken in yet.
I am not sure how many more times I can rehash this stuff on this site. There are so many factors that go into such a choice and personal freedom is a big part of it. I have R70 insulation in my roof and my house is urethane insulation foamed to R30 in the walls (which cost a fortune.) This decision nobody will know about. The Prius owner up the street gets all the accolades yet his house is an energy pig.
I only drive 8000 miles per year. The Prius does over 50000 miles per year.
You can’t always judge a book by it cover.
Also, just because a pick-up truck has the potential to be more useful than an SUV, doesn’t mean that it is often used to that degree. Most of them aren’t either. I have many construction contractor customers that use them, but they also would be better off with a wagon or minivan.
I think that the next question of the day should be “Should we raise our gas taxes in North America?” (Yes.)
thebigmass:
Ultimately, as long as we wish to remain a prosperous society (please don’t cite the current recession, as these are of course cyclical and as inevitable as death) we need to maintain personal economic freedom. Which means that we have to live with the (stupid) choices that others may make.
I agree with you to a point. However, economic freedom on the public roads (as opposed to one’s private property) has limits. We don’t allow the public to drive Kenilworths with cabs on the back. Even Texas doesn’t (I think).
What surprises me is that the SUV backlash hasn’t manifested itself in any sort of tougher licensing requirements for vehicles over a certain weight. I don’t know the ins and outs of Cali politics, but with their liberal legislature, you think some tougher licensing restrictions would at least have been proposed.
bigmass and trees,
Bigmass, it sounds like you really hate SUV’s being driven poorly. Like lots of others here, I have lately noticed the Corolla is the more likely left lane bandit.
Trees, If you have the proper license, you can drive a big rig to the grocery. However, you used to need a company sponsor to sign your commercial license application and state there is a business purpose for you to get one.
I would like to see stronger licensing requirements for everyone, and I think using vehicle weight would be a valid way to classify the cars. That, or HP and/or Torque.
SUVs don’t haul people nearly as well as minivans and station wagons, and minivans are also better for hauling personal possessions. . And they don’t haul awkward stuff as well as pickups. They’re 98% image, and its an image I wouldn’t want.