Blaming is dysfunctional though. It just feels like its someones fault. Many mistakes feel like faults, but they are opportunities for growth. Being imperfect is a gift, its what allows us to grow in the present (present = gift). No mistakes in the universe though.

I cannot change/fix how others feel. Nothing wrong with how folk feel or view current events. Its just dysfunctional behavior does not result in happiness. I’d like to see others happy, so that I can selfishly embrace their happiness.

Everyone is growing to change dysfunctional behavior. My goodness there are a lot of layers to change and transform. I’m doing something about what I can change. I’m accepting reality, accepting I am powerless over others. Changing my relationships with others. I’m transforming my perceptions. I’m changing my attitude and behavior. I’m changing my perspectives. I have power over my self. I’m deactivating my ego. I’m living in present responsibly with sane expectations and humility. Living with faith, truth, vision, light and wisdom. Its just so much better this way.

I do not think anyone is accountable for the feelings and views of others. For the expectations of others. I am accountable/responsible for myself, for my believes, expectations, and what I buy into. I’m not perfect, I do alot of things that cause me pain and grieve. I have a choice as to whether or not I blame myself for things. I slowly learning to own my power to make the choice to stop beating myself up. Being compassionate and patient and caring to myself is my biggest achievement and success. Its all I need to do. Everything else is just a mistake, an opportunity for growth as a loving individual.

Hey GM wouldn’t be in this deep Sh*t if someone can actually read tead leaves. Dont laugh those guy can tell u things qute accurate.

Do you really think using terms like “environmental wackos” is constructive?

Thea earth is finite. I my opinion, overpopulation (is) will lead to severe problems, that train is due to arrive, the signs are already there that it is approaching the crossing.

We tear down and destroy the balanced, complex web of life at our own risk. We alter the chemistry of the atmosphere at our own risk.
We pollute and over fish the ocean at our own risk.
Do you desire for there to even be great great grandchildren? Do you want them to look at pictures of frogs, apes and all sorts of other biological miracles in the same way children today do with dinosaurs? And what will they think knowing our greed and carelessness eradicated them from the earth? What medicines will never be found becuase the unique plants that produce them are lost? There is infinite value to humans in biodiversity, unfortunately we can’t see past our televisions and consumerism to see that. Our rampant industrialized greed is impoverishing future generations.

I have heard the population will hit 10 billion by mid late century. I don’t think that can happen. There are natural limits.

I’ll wear the label “environmental wacko” with pride, thank you! I am the true conservative, I want to conserve that which gives us life, the biosphere, the web of life. Sorry, you cannot breathe or eat dollars.

Furthermore, playing the blame game is a rather useless thing to do. Assigning blame does nothing to solve the mess we are in. We find ourselves here. Now, where do we need to go, and how do we get there?

That couldn’t be further from the truth. Left to its own devices, the energy industry would simply rape and plunder American resources to line its own nest. The historical record is loaded with cases that show that without some type of regulation or protection in place, our natural resources will be misused to the benefit of a few. Yeah, overall energy prices might be lower for a short time if industry had free reign, but I’m willing to bet that would be more than offset by health issues, lost productivity, cleanups, etc. This is not even taking into account the moral obligation we have to be good stewards of our country and our planet. Don’t ever expect most individuals to do anything for the common good because it will never happen. Most people, and certainly the captains of industry, are in it for themselves. That is why you need good government to balance the needs for individual choice/advancement and the needs of the population as a whole. Industry will NEVER fill that role, be it for the environment, safe labor practices, or anything else. They myopically view these things as impediments to their pot of gold. As flawed as it may be, the political arena is all that we have to work with.

You can’t expect a business to be concerned with long term effects on the nation (or globe) as a whole when often they can’t look past their own noses. Take TTAC’s favorite whipping boy. No, not the UAW – I think that’s #2, but GM. GM only looked at what was important for them in the near term. From that perspective the did exactly what they should have done – produce vehicles that are profitable and sell. They made a ton of money on SUV’s and trucks, and they made a good product, too. Naturally, it would be intelligent not to invest all your eggs in one basket and they should have developed smaller cars that were the equal to their trucks. Anybody who has been in a new Tahoe knows that whoever worked on designing the Lumina must not be employed on the truck side of things. So if a company can’t even see far enough ahead to do what is best for themselves as a whole, I certainly don’t expect them to be concerned with ozone loss affecting my health.

I don’t really see much of a blame for “government” — everyone has had to work within the same rules and regulations. Oh, sure, I’ll agree that laws and regulations have had an impact on the directions of a number of things, but the fact remains that some companies prospered while others tanked, playing by the same rules.

If anything, I’d say the blame to be placed on government might be mostly in terms of supporting the American short-term economic outlook, more in the deregulation of business, back in the Reagan years. “Why go to the trouble of making money by producing competitive products, when you can make a ton of easy dough just by buying and selling other companies, and making a short-term killing in the stock market?”

In the end, I think this kind of “corporate thinking” has led to the demise of, well, seemingly “most American manufacturing.” Many companies essentially stopped designing and building products, and now exist only as nameplates stamped on products built in Chinese factories. Sheesh — how much longer do we have to keep wringing our hands over this until the US auto industry follows all of the other manufacturers, and heads to China? I sure don’t see any of them surviving, otherwise….

Capitalism should be about profiting from designing and producing reliable, quality cars people want to buy, not manipulating the books and stock prices to satisfy the Wall Street gods.

Change will come only if executive compensation is tied to long-term company performance and returns. Management stock options should not be guaranteed, but instead tied to company performance over a decade or more.

Apparently not. Not really among US companies.

I see no sign of Wagoner taking any blame for ANYthing. It’s always someone or something else’s fault. After all, he’s just a professional manager, not a soothsayer.

Mullaly? Nope. He’s treating it like a bit of a game. Sure, he’s giving it the old college try, but doesn’t really care. Look at that wide smile.

Cerberus? They damn sure are accountable, but only to their investor pals. Bullets are being sweated. But as for the customer for their products, nah. If you orderd a cloth interior, and they made a production mistake and put in leather, and they subsequently found out after retail delivery, why, they’d want those leather seats back. At once.

The rest of the automakers:

Hyundai care only about sales, but are willing to try to give reasonable product for the dollar, but those folks are deep down mean.

Toyota: Yup, they just hate to lose face, so actually care about their customers. Seen too many faulty things replaced for nothing, even when not strictly necessary.

Honda: +1 Toyota

Nissan: Sort of, because Carlos cares what people think about him.

VW: You vill like vat ve make, dumbkopfs! So, no.

Mercedes: Customers just don’t understand they are driving the best cars in the world. Problems? There are none. So, no.

BMW: Ummmm, yeah, sort of, maybe. They’ll twist and writhe, but generally do the right thing,

Mazda: Haven’t got a clue about who really runs that outfit, so not really accountable. Good thing they make generally good stuff.

Subaru: Executives hide behind bushes so as to appear anonymous. If coaxed out into the sunlight, will give it a half-hearted try, if you don’t make too much of a fuss. So sort of.

To the final customer, all this can turn pear-shaped due to actions of a stupid dealer. Now how many good dealers are there?

given how the government and corporate world works, there is little accountability… – though – blame can be assigned to just about anybody in the industry…

On a slightly different note, after watching that video I just can’t see Wagoner ‘pulling an Iacocca’. The guy has the charisma of an Aveo. I was young at the time, but strongly recall liking, and trusting Lee. Can’t see Rick pulling of the same trick. Maybe that’s why Lutz is there?

I think the government deserves a special dose of blame in this situation though, even more than the CEO’s, UAW, et al. The government has subsidized the long-term failure of this business with American tax dollars for one, basically beginning with the Chrysler bail out. CAFE had the unintended consequence of motivating auto makers during times of cheap gas to engineer everything of any scale to be a “light truck” as defined by the DOT. The first result of this was the minivan, then the SUV. Even Subaru’s last major update to the Legacy was primarily driven by the want to get the Legacy classified as a “light truck.”

Market shocks with oil prices have driven the market towards small cars more than anything. When you look at the history of our involvement in the Middle East since the oil panics, it has been at least partially driven by the need to keep gas cheap. We sank the Iranian navy in ‘86 over Kuwaiti tankers, and Iraq…’nuff said. The Fifth Fleet bobs around the anchors in Qatar basically for this purpose. All that is is subsidizing gas prices via indirect means.

This is complicated by the government constantly kicking checks down to the Small 2.8 to develop the “next big thing” whether they be fuel cell cars, electric, fusion, fart-powered, whatever. All those tax-dollars have been spent, all to watch Toyota kick everyone’s ass in alternative propulsion with a hybrid! What a waste of tax dollars!

Another side-effect of government tinkering has to do with the huge amounts of regulations that must be met before you can legally sell a wholly manufactured car in the United States. While we can argue about the merits of the regulations themselves, the salient point is that the cost of fielding even one model of car is increased TREMENDOUSLY and the lead-times for a finished product to jump the bureaucratic hoops and make it to market takes years. This has has the unintended consequence of killing any notion of a new car company emerging in this country.

In most businesses, when the big guy falters little competitors pop up all over the place to compete, it keeps everyone on their toes. As a result of this artificially engineered prohibition on new car companies in the ‘States, the only new competitors come from overseas.

Uncle Sam needs to get out of the car business, fast.

You name it – coal, nuclear, oil, natural gas. It is darn near impossible to do much about any of them.

Other than that, the market is working as it should – prices go up and people lower consumption. To suggest that CAFE, etc. should have been increased would only lead to further market distortions.

So, in order of culpability:

1) MBA Trained Management
2) Short sighted, selfish and poorly informed buyers
3) A government filled with lobbyists and fund raisers.
4) The UAW for continuing to take advantage of 1-3 as much as possible.

I drove a big block Wildcat well into the late 90’s, followed by a ‘68 Riviera, ‘69 Electra 225 and finally, a ‘65 Olds Ninety Eight. All fast, all fun. I drank deeply from the well of petroleum and enjoyed it, and have no regrets. All got less than 15 MPG on a good day. When I saw gas hit $3 on a road trip in 2005, I sold each and every one of them… it was fun, really, but the party’s over, I said to myself. I decided from then on that I wouldn’t own anything that got less than 20 MPG. My current daily ride, although a slug, averages 30 MPG.

To continue the train metaphor from earlier in this thread: Sorry, but you’d have to be deaf, blind and dumb not to have seen this train coming. It took a few years, but it’s pulling in the station RIGHT NOW. Toot toot.

Anyone who bought a low-MPG vehicle in the last several years was seriously asking for trouble. I have less than zero sympathy for people who are now upside down on their loans and biting it big at the pumps because they just had to have a 5,000 pound rig to drive to work or a 400+ horsepower chariot for a daily driver.

And the big 2.83? They’ve had 30+ years to get their shit together to come out with a fleet of decent high MPG small cars. Instead of innovating, they pissed the time away on how to market SUVs to people who didn’t need them, selling “near luxury” to proles and encrusting cars with high-markup options and electronic geegaws. The fact that they’ve been caught flatfooted when people are finally getting their heads out of their asses and demanding high MPG cars tells me everything I need to know about their corporate “vision” and long-term planning.

And the government? Right now, it’s being run by legions of corporate cronies. The revolving door between business interests and our executive and legislative branches spins faster every day. Frankly, I look at corporate America and our current government and I see the same bunch of bozos. Only it ain’t gonna be corporate “America” much longer. Say hello to your new overlords from Asia and the Middle East, the only people left with any significant capital.

I’ve made what moves I can over the years to deal with what I thought was glaringly obvious: we can’t keep going into debt and living in this country as we have. I intentionally moved to a city where I can get around easily without a car, even though I’d dearly love to be in a less crowded space and have a bigger yard. I’ve stayed out of debt and saved my money. But unfortunately, I’m in the same boat with idiots who went into hock over their heads, bought porky SUVs and bloated our suburbs out to the edges of sanity, and now they’re dragging me down with them as our economy goes to hell. If I’m pissed about anything, that would be it.

Don’t even get me started on W’s little excursion in Iraq and how far in debt we are as a result.

There’s _plenty_ of blame to go around.

Damn, that felt good. Bye for now, I’m going to go and pick up my new commuter bicycle.

Accountability: none. They are simply not talented enough to run a large auto corporation or, more likely, they do not have an incentive to make the corp. successful.

Who among us, if making the money that the CEO of GM is making, would be that concerned with the future of the company? I can talk about how much I think that businesses can and should make great stuff, treat people well, be smart and still make plenty of money, but I can’t say that I’d truly give a damn if I was as indulged as some of these execs.

A joke, right?

Great analogy.

Are we talking about blame or accountability? Blame, of which there will be plenty, will fall on everyone…government, manufacturers, unions, the buying public, ‘foreigners’. I lean more toward government…ratcheting up of gas taxes would have helped to avert this.

As far as accountability, NO ONE is going to take it.

We’ll all get to pay the price though…that is for sure.

And even if disaster does happen on their watch, they still get a book deal, in which they can try to exculpate themselves and place the blame elsewhere.

The guy knows it, you can see it in his face.

GM is totally screwed, and he will be the guy at the helm when it goes down.

I hope he enjoys his retirement with full bennies in the Cayman Islands.

(extreme dripping sarcasm alert)

You could make the argument that GM built what we wanted at the time. Large SUVs and Trucks. But it’s that kind of complacency that has the American automotive industry in trouble. Toyota saw it coming 10 years ago and built the Prius. Honda and Nissan (and Toyota) have lean workforces and manufactoring systems. In GM’s mind – why spend the money when giant trucks and SUVs are selling and if things really get bad the government will bail us out?