Is it a real winter tire shortage?

Genuine all season tires like the Nokian WR All-Weather Plus are starting to hit the market. I will hold out until they are generally available at competitive prices.

Ever driven in Quebec? Most people cannot keep their cars in a straight line in the summer, let alone the winter.

Sure, a skilled driver can get by without winter tires, but if you don’t get pulled over or don’t get into an accident you can also get away without having insurance. But just because you can get by with something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

Al Gore was absolutely right. Canadian (at least in Alberta here) winters are getting shorter and shorter, warmer and warmer.

Of course it won’t disappear in a sudden, but I do doubt how much of a winter will be left here in 100 years.

You’ve obviously never been to Quebec (I travel to Montreal about six times per year). The roads are in appalling condition and bridges are collapsing – literally. Any casual observer can see the infrastructure deteriorating visibly. The only bright spot is the Montreal metro (subway) which is excellent.

Keeping this in mind if you can get winter tires for under 300 bucks then it might make sense but if the tire package costs over 500 bucks as it does in Canada I doubt it’s worth the cost for most people. I drove my BMW 540i for years on all-season tires during winter and never had a problem in Toronto.

My STi with STOCK “summer” tires with all wheel drive will slide sideways through an intersection at 10mph. I bought dedicated winter tires that over 2 years I have probably used sub 5k miles with cheapie rims and it is like 100000x better.

Once the temperatures drop a little more, this phenomenon disappears.

My Prius “warns” me when temps actually drop to 37 F because this is when the roads begin to get “wet/ice slickery” (because the ground is cooler than the air and the phenomenon can start at or about this AIR temperature).

Also don’t forget that bridges are always worse than the rest of the roads, even at temps in the low 40’s, because wind under the bridge cools the road surfaces more than the rest of the road, making for “wet/ice slickery”. Hence the actual warning signs seen up here in the north “bridge may be slippery”. (Yeah, we can usually ignore the signs for oh 8 months of the year if we’re lucky).

I just put snow tires (and after market alloys) on both my Prius and my wife’s Sonata, for use here in Michigan. Within a couple of days of doing so, we had our first snow fly.

In theory I see where you are coming from… but it’s also the law that everyone must have insurance to drive, regardless of their economic stature. The law for insurance & winter tires are there to protect you, me, and other innocent bystanders as much as it is there to protect the person behind the wheel. As another poster mentioned, if this law reduces my chance of getting hit by some clueless idiot on the road without the right tires for the conditions, I’m all for it.

As far as I’m concerned using the “poor card” is a red herring. I’ve been down the poor road as a destitute student and I managed to survive without a car. Let’s be clear, for the vast majority of people, car ownership is a lifestyle luxury. Most people don’t need a car to live. Sure, it’s convenient to own a car, but there are lots of people who walk, bike, take public transit, or simply choose to live close to where they work. There are lots of other options if you find yourself in need of a car for short durations, like rentals or car sharing.

And for those who are too dumb to take their winters off in the summer, driving is a privilege and being stupid is not an excuse; just like drunken driving. I have lots of friends who are totally clueless about cars, but have the sense to put on winter tires in the fall and take them off in the spring. Let people who are too dumb to educate themselves burn through the tires for a few years, eventually their wallet will educate them. If you don’t believe me, have a look at all the SUV drivers who suddenly woke up to the fact that driving a gas guzzler costs them $$!

This is yet another example of the Government of the Province of Quebec doing what so many other governments fail to do: Pass legislation that actually helps their population and not some lobby or special interest group.

What? Tire retailers and manufacturers aren’t a special-interest group?

I sent this letter to an editor when this was proposed last year:

Just because something like using snow tires is a very good idea, that does not mean it should be made mandatory. You have to consider the unintended consequences. In this case, they are not restricted to but include:

1)The poor, as well as others who just aren’t aware, will wind up using winters through the Summer, which is just about as bad as using all-seasons in winter. They wear out quickly, increase fuel consumption, and provide less grip and control in the rain. If a law fixed arbitrary dates between which snow tires must be installed regardless of actual weather conditions (and there’s no way it could not, people would need fair notice,) then everyone would see this problem.

2)The need to follow the letter of the law will result in the increased use of worn and/or low-quality snow tires.

Both of those consequences will lead to more crashes. Maybe fewer than the law might prevent, maybe not.

Forcing people to buy winter tires will reduce competition in the tire market, resulting in higher prices, that’s not an “unintended consequence” since it’s so obvious it must be deliberate. That will, in turn, exacerbate the previously mentioned problems.

I’ve lived in Quebec and as the most old school socialist of the provinces I can say first hand that public services are crummy. The roads are full of pot holes, and the doctors & teachers are regularly on strike.

The snow tire requirement is just one of many on-going unfunded mandates in which the local government raises the cost of living (without having to explain another tax increase).

It has less to do with the tread depth and more to do with the tires’ composition. The traditional all-season (or more accurately ‘no season’) tires have compounds that get much harder in cold weather than properly designed winter tires. You really start to see the benefit even at about 7C and below.

Tread design itself is less important, but the thousands of sipes in a winter tire act to actually expand the tread surface area, spreading out to grip more of the snow and ice, giving you better stability and control.

And ABS brakes, no matter how sophisticated, extend braking distances on application. You’re more likely to slide right into something because you can’t build up the friction between the tire and the road to stop or steer around something properly.

For me, I’d prefer a basic front-wheel driver with no ABS and winter tires over an Audi or Subaru with all seasons and all the electronic systems.

Edit: Seems rev0lver beat me to it by a minute or so…

It has nothing to do with abs, awd or tread depth. It has to do with the materials used to make the tires.

All seasons become less effective around 5c. Winter tires do not freeze and provide grip until a much lower temperature.

AWD is fine, but when four all season tires have zero grip, it doesn’t matter what wheels the power is going to.

as for the post itself – when this law was made, i remember reading that 85% of all quebekers already used winter tires…
I don’t see how the mandated ‘demand’ of an additional ~100k sets could make such a difference…

like others have said, seems like an artificial problem…

To me it would seem more important to have a minimum tread depth mandate.

However, what’s wrong with Canada? Didn’t you people heard that Al Gore declared global warming and even got Nobel kronas for it? How dare you to have winters?

I can’t even get a tire shop to answer the phone when I call to make an appointment. The odd time I do get through, they don’t have my tire size.

Maybe the tire manufacturers should have upped production?