How about Land Rover?

The LR series is a departure in many ways. They lost the traditional names AND traditional looks. Does anyone think “safari” when they see a Landy anymore?

It may be working for them, which is even worse. It could be a decade before they give us another practical SUV rather than a luxo barge. Even if the new ones have all the capabilities, they lost the spirit.

The marketing and production missteps have already been outlined above — quite well, in fact.

But my opinion of why Saab has “lost it” — mind-bogglingly bonkers “lost it” — comes from personal experience. See, sadly, I own one. Or more accurately, my wife owns one and I endure it (2006 Saab 9/3, purchased new a year and a half ago).

First — build quality. The once quirky, charming little Swedish niche car is now a squeaky rattletrap. Big dip in the road? Headliner creaks. Railroad track crossing? Dash shakes violently. Mild surface imperfections? Droning rattle in the left rear door and in the sunroof cover.

Second — quirks have turned into meltdowns under GM management. To wit: The CD player/changer. My wife informed me several weeks ago that the Saab’s CD player quit working. I get in, sure enough, it’s true; CDs no longer play (outdoor temperature, 22F). So we bring it to the dealer that weekend and tell him of the problem. With a smirk, he says, “Yeah, they won’t play when it’s cold. We’ll order you a new CD player and install it in a couple weeks.”

I’m stunned. It’s SWEDISH. Made in Sweden. That’s what? Right up there by Norway! Look, it’s cold there, trust me. These are the people in blue and yellow jerseys and ice skates who wipe up the rink with our Olympic hockey team. They know cold.

How can a car built where the annual snowfall makes Buffalo, NY look like Miami, FL have features that are known to fail IN THE COLD?

Third — meltdowns turn catastrophic. Not two weeks after the CD fiasco, my wife was driving to work and every idiot light in the car went off like Apollo 13. While piloting down a busy 4-laner, she called the dealer on her cell and asks what to do, “Everything’s lit up! Traction control, service engine, stability control, ABS…”)

“Maam, is there a place where you can pull over?”

“Yes.”

“Do it now.”

“Okay, I’m stopped.”

“Turn the car off and turn it on again.”

“Okay.”

“Are the lights off?”

“Yes. It looks fine now.”

“This happens a lot when it’s cold out. Be sure to bring it in if the lights come on and stay on.”

COLD OUT!? Not to belabor a point, but the car is built in SWEDEN! Can you feel the wind and ice off the North Sea? Can you see the moose standing in the middle of the road? Sweden!

This, after we’ve already had all the sensors replaced for the stability control system. This, after finding out that Saab’s 3-year no-charge maintenance only covers half the visits (long story).

This, after we asked if a remote start could be added to the car and were told no, it’s impossible on a Saab, thanks to where the unique-tto-Saab ignition location (between the seats). No remote start possible on a vehicle made in SWEDEN?! Where I guess the locals don’t mind not being able to waste gas in order not to freeze when it’s 0 degrees outside and your car’s been sitting in a parking lot all day?

This after my wife sat for 2 1/2 hours in the dealer’s service waiting room while the new CD was being installed with assurances every ten minutes that, “It’s only going to be another ten minutes.”

So, yeah. Saab. It’s lost its way. It no longer knows what it is, where it’s from, or what it’s for.

Consider this a cautionary tale. A Saab story with a warning. Stay away, friends. Stay very far away from this brand.

My 1984 VW Rabbit diesel was an ugly little box, but it was very reliable and easy to repair. For example, I changed the radiator and all the glow-plugs in my landlord’s driveway in below-freezing temperatures using only hand tools. New Volkswagens? You can’t even find the correct “VW 505.00 spec” oil for the TDI without a trip to the VW dealer.

Cadillac or Lincoln are both contenders as well, IMO. I don’t care what kind of spin their PR people put on it, or how much profit they make from them, Caddy and Lincoln should never have put their badges on a pickup truck. I’m referring to the Lincoln Mark LT and Cadillac Escalade EXT.

BTW, the question has been posed several times in the forums why both GMC and Chevrolet sell light-duty trucks and vans. My understanding is that GMC trucks were paired with GM dealers that didn’t sell Chevrolet, so that they’d have a truck brand to sell. Presumably GM dealers that don’t offer Chevy sell the more “upscale” GM brands, so it would make sense to me that the Cadillac Escalade EXT should’ve been a GMC. Similarly, the Lincoln Mark LT would’ve made more sense badged as a Mercury, if Mercury made any sense….

Maybe they are making cars that meet their “plot”, perhaps it is just that their ‘plot’ is not relevant to the market anymore.

Yes, they shared body shells with Chevy, but the GMC always had the stronger frame, springs , engines–bigger 6s, including that massive V6 of the 60s that was basically the 348/396/427/454 big block with 2 cylinders lopped off, available Buick straight 8s and Pontiac 347 V8s when Chevy couldn’t be had with an 8 of any kind.

Also, you could get more and better-looking bling on the fancy models than anything available from Chevy.

The wimpmobile Acadia needs to be badged a Chevy;the heaviest-duty Suburbans, dual-wheel 1-tons, etc. and all medium duties taken away from Chevy and made GMC exclusive.

Finally, go back to dedicated GMC dealers. The “serious truck” doesn’t belong with Pontiac and Buick except in small-population areas where a separate GMC makes no economic sense and full-line GM (or at least full-line minus Caddy) has been the rule for quite some time.

I vote for Saturn. They were very focused in the beginning, attempting to build simple, quality American small cars to effectively compete with Japanese small cars. Today, they’re all over the place, with the majority of their models not even close to the original concept. What does Saturn represent today? I sure as hell don’t know. What are they thinking with the Outlook? What were they thinking when they brought out the now defunct and universally ignored Relay? And now the Astra’s here, a European car built in Europe which is completely at odds with the original Saturn concept. The best thing GM could do is try to find a cost effective and timely way to kill off Saturn. It’s just one of the things that’s dragging GM down, and I predict it will continue to do so at an ever increasing rate.

I don’t understand why some think Cadillac has lost the plot or moved downmarket. If anything, they’ve changed focus to better compete in today’s luxury car segment. BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, etc. have redefined the fundamental concept of what a luxury car is. Cadillac probably concluded (correctly, I think) that they needed to adapt to the realities of the marketplace or they were literally in grave danger of becoming irrelevant. As much as I love the “old school” Cadillacs of yesteryear, they simply don’t cut it in the luxury car market today. The Escalade seems a little out of place in that context, but then again it does seem to appeal at least a little bit to the few old schoolers left who prefer a traditional large American luxury vehicle as opposed to something with a more international flavor like the rest of Cadillac’s models.

None of the old reliability. 20+ Cars on the Special “Seriously-Dude,-Don’t-EVER-Buy-These-F**king-Cars”-List from Consumer Reports.

Trying too hard to be Audi. Ignoring their locus in the family of brands.

Fatter, heavier, less fun (save the IRS in the GTI) and more expensive.

They’re supposed to be the European Toyota, exc. with better, neater, IKEA+JeNeSaisQuoifergnugen-ish design. If they’d stop focusing on the wrong damn things, maybe they could make good, solid cars again.

And the MkV Jetta looks like a Corolla. The bunny is only saved this by the smaller form factor and the hatch.

=> why willman is an ex-vw customer.

Spin it off to stand alone, and you have an American Porsche in the making–or HD, choose your allusion.

Honda is what Toyota should be and Lexus is what Acura should be. Toyota has lost focus, Acura never really had it to begin with and too many of their cars are also-rans.

Mitsu has two things going for them: 1) membership in the Mitsubishi keiretsu and 2) the Evo. I’ll posit that the Evo alone is what keeps Mitsu on people’s radars; otherwise they’d be just another marginal mass-market brand like, say, Suzuki or something.

I’d have said Mitsubishi, but if their missteps over the last decade couldn’t kill them, I don’t know what can. And the new Lancer indicates that they’ve found a road map.

And I’d be so bold as to suggest that Honda itself could loose its way.

The new Accord is so large as to be an un-Honda. The Pilot and the Ridgeline are not of Honda’s roots, really. The Odyssey is not the essence of what a Honda is: A minivan? Please.

Cars like the Civic (which I own) and the Si, sure. Bring on the CR-Z and the cool hybrid coupe and I’m on board. Otherwise? Be careful Honda, or you’ll become passé.

Paul Niedermeyer says “grow or die”. Fair enough. I’d say loose your focus and risk dying. Perhaps it’s a matter of finding the right balance between the two.

First they ignored the brand by neglecting to give it anything new, so it simply stagnated for a while. Then they gave it some warmed-over clones of Chevy models (and not exactly Chevy’s best models). Then they ditched those and decided to move upmarket and bring in the Opels instead.

You could argue that Saturn never had much of a plot to start with, but they’ve managed to lose it in a remarkably short time.

The new Impreza is more refined to capture more sales from the mainstream public. Subaru can not survive in today’s auto market with quicky, loud, basic vehicles.

VW has lost its way with 40k Passats, 50k Touregs, No CUV, No small high MPG car. Peoples car? Pfffffffttt….
This was VW Group decision though, to chase the high profit Lambo, Bentley, and Buggatti. Leaving VW to almost being invaded by the Arabs.

well I dont know if they ever had plot but my vote is for Suzuki.