Comments on: Oshawa Zeta Plans On Again http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/ The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:24:27 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Banned User http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511441 Banned User Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:51:05 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511441 Well the Canadian government gave Government Motors billions and quietly placed 4 billion in the pension plan. You bet the government will get something back, especially after GM moved the Oshawa truck production to Silao, Mexico. Well the Canadian government gave Government Motors billions and quietly placed 4 billion in the pension plan. You bet the government will get something back, especially after GM moved the Oshawa truck production to Silao, Mexico.

]]> By: Banned User http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511438 Banned User Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:46:58 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511438 Here in Windsor, Ont the police are buying Chevy Tahoe police trucks. Pretty good for a city that is basically bankrupt. http://www.auto-facts.org/police-interceptor.html Here in Windsor, Ont the police are buying Chevy Tahoe police trucks. Pretty good for a city that is basically bankrupt.

http://www.auto-facts.org/police-interceptor.html

]]> By: NickR http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511376 NickR Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:19:04 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511376 SupaMan, I'd have to look around online but I believe that decision was rescinded. SupaMan, I’d have to look around online but I believe that decision was rescinded.

]]> By: npbheights http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511375 npbheights Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:13:29 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511375 I remember reading somewhere that GM decided not to build a large Cadillac to replace the STS/DTS on the Zeta platform because it was too expensive. So, it's too expensive for a large Cadillac, but not too expensive for a large Chevrolet. Does this make any kind of sense? I remember reading somewhere that GM decided not to build a large Cadillac to replace the STS/DTS on the Zeta platform because it was too expensive. So, it’s too expensive for a large Cadillac, but not too expensive for a large Chevrolet. Does this make any kind of sense?

]]> By: paris-dakar http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511335 paris-dakar Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:50:31 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511335 <em>As a corollary, if you go to Japan, every taxi is a Toyota Crown and there’s bazillions of them. It’s the same exact design that’s been around for more than 25 years (now with airbags). It’s no looker, but it works (spacious design), and is dependable and affordable.</em> The old Nissan B13 Sentra/Tsuru occupies the same niche in Latin America. As a corollary, if you go to Japan, every taxi is a Toyota Crown and there’s bazillions of them. It’s the same exact design that’s been around for more than 25 years (now with airbags). It’s no looker, but it works (spacious design), and is dependable and affordable.

The old Nissan B13 Sentra/Tsuru occupies the same niche in Latin America.

]]> By: SupaMan http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511332 SupaMan Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:44:06 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511332 Well, Ford has already decided the Panther is going away next year I believe. So cars like the Charger and Caprice(new Impala?) will be the ones to take over the law enforcement role. And really....Caprice? Sure the Impala sells in stellar numbers but isn't it the last car being made on the old W platform? Time for a new Impala...a RWD one. Well, Ford has already decided the Panther is going away next year I believe. So cars like the Charger and Caprice(new Impala?) will be the ones to take over the law enforcement role.

And really….Caprice? Sure the Impala sells in stellar numbers but isn’t it the last car being made on the old W platform? Time for a new Impala…a RWD one.

]]> By: NickR http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511331 NickR Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:39:20 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511331 Jonathan Gregory, agreed, they'd be very hard pressed to compete with the Crown Vic. Displacing a vehicle so well-established is hard. And police departments flog these things to death in testing and the Crown Vic holds up better than its rivals. And good luck competing on price. As you pointed out, the CapX was paid for ages ago, the factory is in a small town that needs the jobs so I am sure they get generous tax breaks, and if practice makes perfect that factory should be remarkably efficient. Slashing the price of the Caprice to gain fleet market is...oh no, not again! Seriously though...the Caprice? As someone else pointed out the V6 is a Chevelle and the V8 is the Chevelle SS. Jonathan Gregory, agreed, they’d be very hard pressed to compete with the Crown Vic. Displacing a vehicle so well-established is hard. And police departments flog these things to death in testing and the Crown Vic holds up better than its rivals. And good luck competing on price. As you pointed out, the CapX was paid for ages ago, the factory is in a small town that needs the jobs so I am sure they get generous tax breaks, and if practice makes perfect that factory should be remarkably efficient.

Slashing the price of the Caprice to gain fleet market is…oh no, not again!

Seriously though…the Caprice? As someone else pointed out the V6 is a Chevelle and the V8 is the Chevelle SS.

]]> By: Jonathan Gregory http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511305 Jonathan Gregory Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:46:03 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511305 I thought I heard that the Crown Vic PI is actually quite profitable. CapX is all but long paid for. I haven't heard any intention to kill it anytime soon. Most departments love it for several reasons: 1. Size and space 2. Maintenance friendly and cheap parts (in-house mechanics could fix them in their sleep) 3. Well-developed police prep packages from the factory (electrical runs, light kits) 4. General vehicle robustness It may not be the baddest or newest kid on the block, but it's ol' reliable. When you're running a fleet, that's a giant factor. As a corollary, if you go to Japan, every taxi is a Toyota Crown and there's bazillions of them. It's the same exact design that's been around for more than 25 years (now with airbags). It's no looker, but it works (spacious design), and is dependable and affordable. I thought I heard that the Crown Vic PI is actually quite profitable. CapX is all but long paid for. I haven’t heard any intention to kill it anytime soon. Most departments love it for several reasons:

1. Size and space
2. Maintenance friendly and cheap parts (in-house mechanics could fix them in their sleep)
3. Well-developed police prep packages from the factory (electrical runs, light kits)
4. General vehicle robustness

It may not be the baddest or newest kid on the block, but it’s ol’ reliable. When you’re running a fleet, that’s a giant factor.

As a corollary, if you go to Japan, every taxi is a Toyota Crown and there’s bazillions of them. It’s the same exact design that’s been around for more than 25 years (now with airbags). It’s no looker, but it works (spacious design), and is dependable and affordable.

]]> By: akear http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511301 akear Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:35:47 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511301 What is strange is that the aging Impala continues to outsell all these new GM sedans. When GM tries to kill the Impala it comes roaring back on the sales charts. Even if you just count retail sales the Impala still outsells the Malibu. I talked to a frustrated Chevrolet dealer who tries desperately to sell the Malibu, but most of the time ends up selling the Impala instead. What is strange is that the aging Impala continues to outsell all these new GM sedans. When GM tries to kill the Impala it comes roaring back on the sales charts. Even if you just count retail sales the Impala still outsells the Malibu. I talked to a frustrated Chevrolet dealer who tries desperately to sell the Malibu, but most of the time ends up selling the Impala instead.

]]> By: rpol35 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511246 rpol35 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:21:57 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511246 Actually, the '96 Caprice sold in pretty good numbers but GM wanted the production space at Arlington, TX converted to Tahoe production. That's where the demand was at the time and the Tahoe made a lot more $$$ per unit. GM knew they would have a FWD Impala surfacing down the road so the Caprice/Impala SS faded away in December of '96. As for Fritz's comment about badge engineering, that's laughable. With small exception, that's the reason Pontiac is taking a knee next year. It's been badge-engineered to death over the last 35 years; someone at GM was a fan of it and he being the CFO tells me he probably had a lot to do with it. Actually, the ‘96 Caprice sold in pretty good numbers but GM wanted the production space at Arlington, TX converted to Tahoe production. That’s where the demand was at the time and the Tahoe made a lot more $$$ per unit. GM knew they would have a FWD Impala surfacing down the road so the Caprice/Impala SS faded away in December of ‘96.
As for Fritz’s comment about badge engineering, that’s laughable. With small exception, that’s the reason Pontiac is taking a knee next year. It’s been badge-engineered to death over the last 35 years; someone at GM was a fan of it and he being the CFO tells me he probably had a lot to do with it.

]]> By: whynotaztec http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511172 whynotaztec Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:46:44 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511172 If the G8 manages to live on in some form, be it Caprice or whatever, it will be the occassional good car that GM always seems to make by accident. The management contradicts each other, the decision is on/off/on/off/on, the strange seeming fleet logic, yet somehow at the end of the day a pretty nice powerful car will hit the streets. Of course for each one of these there are half a dozen Luminas, Uplanders, etc. If the G8 manages to live on in some form, be it Caprice or whatever, it will be the occassional good car that GM always seems to make by accident. The management contradicts each other, the decision is on/off/on/off/on, the strange seeming fleet logic, yet somehow at the end of the day a pretty nice powerful car will hit the streets. Of course for each one of these there are half a dozen Luminas, Uplanders, etc.

]]> By: cthill http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511160 cthill Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:09:24 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511160 <cite> The lines in Australia and Canada can’t literally build the same cars, the Zeta the Camaro uses is much different than what Holden is building in Australia. </cite> So much for GMs interbuildability or what ever they call it. I cannot believe that they allowed this.
The lines in Australia and Canada can’t literally build the same cars, the Zeta the Camaro uses is much different than what Holden is building in Australia.

So much for GMs interbuildability or what ever they call it. I cannot believe that they allowed this.

]]> By: ihatetrees http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511150 ihatetrees Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:41:53 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511150 This is a solid decision. Provided they market the Caprice right. This is a solid decision.
Provided they market the Caprice right.

]]> By: CommanderFish http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511146 CommanderFish Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:36:47 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511146 You want to hear something scary? Milwaukee County has <em>Buick LeSabre</em> undercover cars. Be afraid. You want to hear something scary?

Milwaukee County has Buick LeSabre undercover cars. Be afraid.

]]> By: 50merc http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511143 50merc Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:34:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511143 The Oklahoma Highway Patrol and some other law enforcement agencies have tried SUV's as patrol vehicles. Powerful, roomy, sturdy, good visibility, RWD. If GM, Ford or Chrysler would modify a small SUV for police pursuit work by providing protection for cargo, and lowering the vehicle and tuning the suspension for fast driving, they could sell a ton of them. A helluva lot more cop cars are sold than Buicks or Mercuries. I hear cops don't like the Charger because its stupid squashed roof hurts visibility and headroom. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol and some other law enforcement agencies have tried SUV’s as patrol vehicles. Powerful, roomy, sturdy, good visibility, RWD. If GM, Ford or Chrysler would modify a small SUV for police pursuit work by providing protection for cargo, and lowering the vehicle and tuning the suspension for fast driving, they could sell a ton of them. A helluva lot more cop cars are sold than Buicks or Mercuries.

I hear cops don’t like the Charger because its stupid squashed roof hurts visibility and headroom.

]]> By: psarhjinian http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511130 psarhjinian Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:55:52 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511130 <em>Also, if the Impala is too old for police departments, then why are they still buying Crown Vics?</em> The Crown Vic is the perfect fleet vehicle for rough-duty work. The Impala is almost as good, but it's not really as robust nor as cheap to repair. They see duty as highway cruisers and bylaw enforcers, and they're losing ground in the latter to the likes of the Prius. I don't think the Charger or the G8/Caprice/Commodore/Whatever will change this. The complex, space-eating, fragile tangle of suspension in a modern car is just not as low-TCO as the Panther: a car you can hop curbs on with impunity, hammer back into shape quickly and with minimal expense. <i>The other day I saw someone pulled over by a Camry. It wasn’t an unmarked car either, it was a full-fledged patrol car complete with paint job, decals, and light bar. I thought that was kinda weird.</i> Was it highway or in-city. I've seen all sorts of interesting cars on highway duty, but intra-city fleets still seem to favour the Vic. On an unrelated note, I saw a G35 painted up in Taxi livery today. I've seen a few I35s and Sonatas in the past, but seeing a G was a shocker. Also, if the Impala is too old for police departments, then why are they still buying Crown Vics?

The Crown Vic is the perfect fleet vehicle for rough-duty work. The Impala is almost as good, but it’s not really as robust nor as cheap to repair. They see duty as highway cruisers and bylaw enforcers, and they’re losing ground in the latter to the likes of the Prius.

I don’t think the Charger or the G8/Caprice/Commodore/Whatever will change this. The complex, space-eating, fragile tangle of suspension in a modern car is just not as low-TCO as the Panther: a car you can hop curbs on with impunity, hammer back into shape quickly and with minimal expense.

The other day I saw someone pulled over by a Camry. It wasn’t an unmarked car either, it was a full-fledged patrol car complete with paint job, decals, and light bar. I thought that was kinda weird.

Was it highway or in-city. I’ve seen all sorts of interesting cars on highway duty, but intra-city fleets still seem to favour the Vic.

On an unrelated note, I saw a G35 painted up in Taxi livery today. I’ve seen a few I35s and Sonatas in the past, but seeing a G was a shocker.

]]> By: miketve http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511122 miketve Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:39:01 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511122 Your homework on this subject: go to holden.com.au interesting stuff. Your homework on this subject: go to holden.com.au

interesting stuff.

]]> By: pariah http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511111 pariah Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:09:17 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511111 The other day I saw someone pulled over by a Camry. It wasn't an unmarked car either, it was a full-fledged patrol car complete with paint job, decals, and light bar. I thought that was kinda weird. The other day I saw someone pulled over by a Camry. It wasn’t an unmarked car either, it was a full-fledged patrol car complete with paint job, decals, and light bar. I thought that was kinda weird.

]]> By: argentla http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511109 argentla Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:02:24 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511109 I thought police departments mostly bought Crown Vics because they were cheap, cheap, cheap. I thought police departments mostly bought Crown Vics because they were cheap, cheap, cheap.

]]> By: Bimmer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511045 Bimmer Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:47:43 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511045 From what I've read cops don't like Charger due to poor visibility. From what I’ve read cops don’t like Charger due to poor visibility.

]]> By: Samuel L. Bronkowitz http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511043 Samuel L. Bronkowitz Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:46:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511043 On again... off again... on again... off again... on again... off again... sure seems like "old GM" to me. On again… off again… on again… off again… on again… off again…

sure seems like “old GM” to me.

]]> By: CamaroKid http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511022 CamaroKid Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:58:59 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511022 <em>It didn’t seem like a good idea to me at the time to give your main competitor (Ford) a monopoly in any market.</em> That was in 1996, they did it a second time when they killed the Camaro in 2002.. Not like GM to learn from its mistakes is it? It didn’t seem like a good idea to me at the time to give your main competitor (Ford) a monopoly in any market.

That was in 1996, they did it a second time when they killed the Camaro in 2002.. Not like GM to learn from its mistakes is it?

]]> By: CamaroKid http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511019 CamaroKid Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:53:08 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511019 So Zeta has been killed and resurrected nine times now? Better call the car the Wild Cat. I'll believe the last resurrection of Zeta when I see it... So Zeta has been killed and resurrected nine times now? Better call the car the Wild Cat.

I’ll believe the last resurrection of Zeta when I see it…

]]> By: essen http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511016 essen Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:49:08 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511016 GM made a concious decision to abandon the police/taxi market, and to hand this business to Ford, when it killed the last big Caprice. It apparently was a low margin business. Were they wrong then and right now? It didn't seem like a good idea to me at the time to give your main competitor (Ford) a monopoly in any market. GM made a concious decision to abandon the police/taxi market, and to hand this business to Ford, when it killed the last big Caprice. It apparently was a low margin business. Were they wrong then and right now? It didn’t seem like a good idea to me at the time to give your main competitor (Ford) a monopoly in any market.

]]> By: paris-dakar http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/oshawa-zeta-plans-on-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1511014 paris-dakar Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:28 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=322996#comment-1511014 <em>That’s a good looking car.</em> Reminds me a Lincoln LS with a Chevy Grille. That’s a good looking car.

Reminds me a Lincoln LS with a Chevy Grille.

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