Why must the homegrown industrialists refuse to acknowledge that people want clever gadgets, efficient cars in addition to the trucks and muscle cars, and that people want to be proud of the things they buy rather than just making excuses for why they didn’t buy something really good.

I’m a kid of the 1980s. The Japanese kicked butt with the gadgets, stereos, and TVs. Then they kicked butt with their cars building cars that came with sunroofs, a/c and 5 speed speed trannys. Toyotas came with AM/FM stereo cassettes while Ford was charging extra for ashtrays, cigarette lighters and still calling the rare 5th gear overdrive. Honda was selling cars with ABS and fuel injection while GM was putting badges on their cars bragging about these features 5 years after the Asians had made these features standard.

Zenith, Maganavox, and RCA didn’t even register on my and my friends’ radars. We wanted those tiny Sony gadgets and those Pioneer rack stereos. Heck I’ve still got alot of my 1980s Asian gadgets and they still work.

It seems to me that the imports continue to supply the early adopters with new gadgets while still serving up quality. Detroit and other domestic manufacturers continue to play catch-up. See Hybrids.

I wonder why this is. Could it be b/c the Japanese generally stay with one employer for so long while the American counterparts are moving around all the time looking for better employment opportunities? I don’t know really. Maybe we Americans get too comfortable in our jobs and our innivation drops while other cultures remain very motivated to perform professionally due to the fact that there are such long lines of people ready to step up and take their jobs (crowded cities and cultures)…

What do you think?

And if the Japanese make those cars in America…so what? It proves that America is still a good place to manufacture vehicles.

As I’ve explained before, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are expanding their design, engineering and production facilities in the U.S. They are becoming in the U.S. what GM and Ford are now in Europe – a wholly owned subsidiary of a larger multinational corporation that designs, engineers and manufactures vehicles for that particular market.

When I was in Europe, I didn’t hear people calling Opel/Vauxhall or Ford of Europe factories “American” factories.

Are you also aware that VW is looking at once again assembling vehicles in the U.S.?

jurisb: Turn around son! This is another factory, here germans stamp parts for our minivans, and here is another one ( yes ,yes right behind there), here, koreans stamp tv sets , the ones we use for watching Family Guy or those James Bond movies- buy Another day. And your son might ask: ` but dad, aren`t we Americans?

Uh, you’ve apparently missed one of the news stories that was posted on this site…Chrysler is making an ENTIRE minivan for VW.

VW will be selling a rebadged Dodge Caravan as the VW Routan.

jurisb: What do we make? And you will sob back…..nothing.

I didn’t realize that locomotives, airplanes, heavy equipment, vehicles (even if some of them do sport badges from Japanese and Korean companies), software, high-tech military equipment, pharmaceuticals and high-tech medical equipment constitute “nothing.”

I read the magazine Top Gear. I do not watch the show (don’t have the time). That is where I read the review of the Holden.

You wrote this later in the post: I would not base my buying choices on anything they say on that show…the magazine maybe…but not the TV show. (emphasis added) That is straight from your computer…

Kiwi_Mark_in_Aussie: 2. In fact in one show they stated the European Monaro equivalent was so much fun precisely because it didnt handle well…i.e. it was very good if you wanted to go “drifting”…this to my mind does not indicate a safe handling car for the general public…

The fact that a vehicle can be deliberately provoked into “drifting” does not mean it is not a “safe handling” car.

Kiwi_Mark_in_Aussie: And are you suggesting we should take seriously an Australian motoring magazine…they are no different to the motoring magazines of the US…i.e. propoganda outlets for the domestic manufacturers…

I referred to Automobile, which, as I said in my previous post, is an American magazine written and published in the United States.

I’ll take the magazine’s word for it over an anonymous interenet poster, especially one with an admitted bias in favor of German and Japanese cars. They may be different from a Commodore or Falcon, but “different” is not synonomous with “better” in this case.

jurisb: Don`t you think,people that`s it`s a time to wake up, before last factory in USA is shut down and a new president warmonger wastes your last dollars?

Considering that the Japanese, Koreans and Germans have opened factories within the U.S. to produce vehicles; and that the Japanese are expanding their engineering and design presence here; and that VW is considering a new U.S. assembly plant, it appears as though it will be quite a while before the “last American factory” shuts down.

i have waited a long time for this very article.

firsts things firdt, the last figures i saw for car sales in west aus, my state:
1 corolla
2 commodore
3 hilux
4 falcon
5 200 landcruiser
when you take away the corrola and realise that most of the hiluxs come with 200kw 6 then you see that wwe really do have it good.

i would also like to say that as an 18 year old i have just bought my first car, 03 commodore for 11k. i realsie that my idea of a drivers car is more about power and a happy back end than the poise and handling i feel driving my parents BMW but when all you do is the highway cruising or cutting up you dont want a twitchy little car.

and if you factor in the nice rear legroom the large boot and the very respectable consumptin 11l/100ks what more do you want. i can overtake several roadtrains (prime mover with three trailers) in one go and unlike a wrx i dont get pulled over by every cop i meet. the one problem is i cant stop myself from shredding the rear tires.

the seat is the only one apart from my handmedown 88 hilux that i can travell over 100ks in without needing a chiropracter and to top it all off it doesnt look like a washing machine as most toyotas tend to.

and i will point out that this is the bsoluste base executive model with the four speed auto. one of my stupid rich friends has a GTS and that thing is incedible, a little plasticy on the inside, but the best drive i have ever had, much better than any merc or bmw, although ive never driven an s or m

I have driven both these vehicles. The ride and handling of the new Falcon is really quite a revelation.

“if you have any luck – no…the ford falcon (like the holden commodore) is a piece of shit…it corners much the same way a sea cow does…has a crap ride…piss poor build quality…and should only be inflicted on those whom you hate (and that goes for the decidly average commodore as well)…

you do not want this…

or put it another way…if you do then your american fords and gm’s must be total rubbish…”

To be fair I have not driven the latest commodore or falcon – but they would require considerable improvement in ride and handling to approach something I would call good. The previous generations of both have been extremely poor in this area for so many versions.

geeber :
February 19th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

“Paul Niedermeyer: That was written by an anonymous poster who gives no credentials and no idea as to why we should take his opinion regarding the Falcon and the Holden seriously.

As I recall, both Top Gear and Automobile raved about the new Holden sedan. Which makes me doubt the rest of his post.

Information on blueovalnews.com regarding the what is new with the just-released is more in line with what V6 posted.”

I have had the misfortune to have had to drive the previous versions of both as my company car…they are poor…poor in ride….poor in handling…poor in appointments (air con/climate etc etc) and poor in ergonomics…

1. All they raved about was the power. They have never said anything postive about the ride or handling.

2. In fact in one show they stated the European Monaro equivalent was so much fun precisely because it didnt handle well…i.e. it was very good if you wanted to go “drifting”…this to my mind does not indicate a safe handling car for the general public…

The Top Gear show should not be used to establish sensible opinions of motor vehicles…its primary purpose is too entertain us petrol heads with very politcally incorrect pro car propoganda and to allow its presenters to drive cars fast…I would not base my buying choices on anything they say on that show…the magazine maybe…but not the TV show.

And are you suggesting we should take seriously an Australian motoring magazine…they are no different to the motoring magazines of the US…i.e. propoganda outlets for the domestic manufacturers…

But you are quite correct – it is only my opinion on these two vehicles…if you or anyone else wants to buy one because you think they are great…then great…beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that…I dont care one way or the other what anyone else spends their own money on…I myself will stick with the Japanese for my everyday cars and European (German at this time) for my weekend fun.

Motown’s claimed ‘height issue’ – we are big Americans, we have huge frames over 6 feet tall, thus we cannot fit comfortably in those tiny bathtubs shame on those analyst they should be fired.

Motown’s claimed ‘big is better’ – god bless my parents, they still love their 72 Ford Galaxie 500 country sedan station wagon – especially my dad believes there is a lot of steel in front and the back to protect him – in case of accident even though we try hard to convince him there is better technology now – he has accepted the 2005 Crown Victoria but he prefer to ride the station wagon even going to the super market – but he complains the parking spots at supermarket are tiny – we have a lot of memories in that car – the summer trips and I think my father does not want to let go – even though the frequent and numerous maintenance costs and repair costs always punch a hole in our wallets – so big is not better those analyst were and are wrong.

Motown’s inability to reel in soccer mom’s, and build value in their products, those analyst incapable to foresee the economies of the rest of world catching up to us and some passing us in addition those analyst could not forecast the increase of gas prices from $8 to over $100 barrel of oil and the fluctuating of our currency those analyst do not deserve salaries.

Not everyone child is Lebron James, so hummer & escalade will not do well in the future – I ask my student’s which cars they see themselves driving in 2030 – 8 out of 10 say lexus/infiniti/bmw/Mercedes and the remaining two one picks mustang and the other corvette it is clear Motown has lost the domestic market let alone down and under.

Nicodemus: According to the FCAI (Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries), in 2007 the Commodore sold 57,307 (including fleets) and the Corolla sold 47,792.

Yes, the Focus starts production in 2010.

GoAuto-News published a story on 1/10/08 regarding the all-new next gen RWD Ford platform to be developed in Australia.

Regarding the controversy about Holden and Ford small cars, I emphasized the “lack of development” of small cars; yes they both built corporate small cars in Australia in the past.

Again, the Falcon (and Commodore) undoubtedly have their charms, but the gist of my story is that the market has strongly turned away from them, leaving GM and Ford with shrinking market share.

Whether the Ford Falcon is new or old, it doesn’t really matter: Dearborn screwed up BIG TIME by choosing the D3 Volvo over this platform for Stateside consumption.

With motorhomes’ rear dual wheels over the center line comin’ atcha. Driven by the ubiquitous horrifyingly-ugly German tourists. Maybe it was just driving on the right side that freaked me out the most. And how bout those one-lane bridges on the main highways, with a railroad track running right down the middle, for crissakes!

“And you will find that any NZ Toyota (can’t speak for Australia) is a miles better setup that the blah US version.”

Actually, I bought a Toyota Corona for my college stepson upon lighting in Christchurch. It was every bit as boring as the US versions. Like listening to a Dutch Reformed sermon on auto-loop. Good reliable cheap car though. But it was painful, like passing a great big huge kidney stone, when it cost an even $100 to fill it up at Franz Joseph Glacier. Ouch!

“It still appalls me to see rusted out old crappers being driven round US roads.”

Until you understand that our rednecks (who were taught to weld when they were 5, and were born with a oil filter wrench in their mouth), in conjunction with Walmart’s ultra-cheap automotive section, works damned miracles.

Don’t get me wrong, NZ and AU are absolutely stunningly gorgeous and the people are fantastic …. well, I married one after all. Who insisted on buying a new Pontiac GTO notwithstanding the blistering reviews it got on this page, and now I love it too.

Alfa sold less than 2,000 cars the whole year. That’s about what I would have suspected.

Many of the posters on blueovalnews.com are engineers who back up their contentions (in this case, that the Falcon platform is not a mildly reworked “carryover” platform) with solid analysis and examples. Yes, there is lots of blue-oval cheerleading, but once you get past that, there is good information on the site.

Also, Top Gear and Automobile are written and published in Great Britain and the U.S., respectively, so they are not part of the Australian media.

Paul Niedermeyer: If it’s so great, how come people aren’t willing to spend their own money on it?

Fleet sales do not have the same meaning in Australia (and Europe) that they do in the U.S.

Stiff taxes and registration fees shape vehicle choices. In Australia and Europe, a car is a perk given to employees as a way of dodging high income taxes. It is my understanding that these sales are still counted as fleet sales.

In the U.S., where tax laws and government policies have not been written to limit consumer choice to nearly the same degree, people are more likely to buy what they want with their own money, hence the stigma attached to any vehicle that survives largely on the basis of fleet sales.

I’m on the East Coast: The last time I heard a prediction regarding auto trends come out of California, it was dead on.

Years ago, when I mentioned that CA tends to be a trendsetter in the U.S. (generally speaking), a guy from CA replied: “Well, if that’s true, everyone in CA are driving huge SUVs, so expect to see those everywhere.”

We know that prediction turned out. So…

If the rest of the country starts to look like my area, the domestics are toast.

- 2001 when Holden last built the Vectra in Australia, is hardly “forever”.

2. “And yet, Holden and Ford still claim bragging rights to the number one (Commodore) and number two (Falcon) selling cars in the land of Oz.” – Falcon hasn’t been, or claimed to be number two for some years now. and as it happens Corolla is number one.

3. “Since Chrysler withdrew, GM’s Holden and Ford-AU’s market share has fallen even more precipitously than their American parents’.” – Had nothing to do with Chrysler’s withdrawal. It has everything to do with tariff reduction and fuel prices. The trend really only started in the last 10 years.

4. “Ford has only just started building the Focus locally.” – No it hasn’t. Utter twaddle! The Focus will be built in Broadmeadows from 2010.

5. “Ford’s restyled Falcon has just been revealed, but it’s riding on a tired old platform that wouldn’t cut it beyond its loyal but rapidly shrinking fan base (think Crown Vic).” – Tired? In what way – what do you actually mean? The New Falcon shares some underbody components namely the front floor and firewall pressings. Additionally the front aprons and shotguns are similar to the Territory. The rear suspension is an update, but is a pretty sophisticated double wishbone device in anycase. The front suspension is a light weight alloy set-up. The Front end structure is a leightweight plastic moulding like the Mazda 6.

6. “Thankfully, Ford has just announced the final solution to the geriatric twosome: a clean-sheet next-generation RWD platform to be developed in Australia.” – When did they announce this? Who announced it? Where’s the press release?

7. “No wonder GM and Ford are throwing development dollars for rear wheel-drive (RWD) cars to the Aussies. Without the imported bucks, they might soon be toast.” – This doesn’t make sense! Why would they be financing an operation with the sole aim of just keeping it afloat? There must be some financial advantage of designing a car in Australia.

First of all, as others have noted, it is simply not true that the new Falcon’s platform is either old or tired. Ford says that the new Falcon is 90 per cent new. Fundamentally, the FG’s platform is heavily re-engineered BF, including a new-revised double wishbone front end. BA/BF dates back to the AU Falcon of 1998, and if you want to trace the family history you can draw a line all the way back to the 1988 EA. But you’ll be a long time finding any correlations. AU was a big-budget rework, so a line in the sand is effectively drawn there. Then, due to the fact that the AU Falcon bombed, Ford spent a few hundred million on a very substantial mid-life facelift back in 2002, including re-engineering the rear half of the body to accomodate a sophisticated multilink rear. The Jag XF rides on a similarly-aged platform. I haven’t seen much, if any, criticism of it on this basis. (Oh, and the new global RWD platform? It’s not inconceivable that FG could provide the basis – which would make a lot of sense, but obviously that doesn’t come into it.)

To my mind, the importance of this update cannot be overestimated. For a long time, backed by such monstrosities as the Torana six and the Cortina six, Australian cars have been seen as pretty crude devices. To a certain point this view held water; but it held less after the debut of the VT Commodore in 1997, and a lot less after BA. FG has new steering and front suspension (an improved double-wishbone arrangement, borrowed from the Territory), but retains the BA/BF rear end. Why not? With that model change, Falcon finally turned from a pretty crude device (including a live rear axle) into a genuinely sophisticated piece of engineering. Oh, and the brand-new RWD world-class platform? Seems it mightn’t be so new after all. The fact is, unless a platform actually compromises a vehicle’s spaciousness or dynamics, its age (however it’s calculated) is not relevant. In the Falcon’s case, it doesn’t, and it isn’t. Let’s move on.

The engineering integrity of contemporary big Australian cars is deeper than a lot of people think. Upper model Falcons have as standard ZF’s acclaimed six-speed autobox, as found on various prestige German marques – from memory this is optional on all but the lowest models, with a five-speed autobox filling the gaps. Similarly, the basics of the Falcon’s inline six are pretty ancient, but not so as you’d know. The basic bore/stroke ratio has long been pretty much ideal for efficient combustion, and various technological improvements over the years (including refinements like a twin-cam four-valve head, dual continuously variable valve timing and exhaust gas recirculation) have kept it highly competitive – especially the turbo, which produces massive numbers, goes like stink and is a world-class engine by any standard. I for one think it’s a significant loss that Ford has decided to replace it with the Duratec V6 from 2009 onwards. Later on in BA’s run they also introduced ZF’s six-speed automatic, as found on various European prestige cars with names beginning BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Maserati, as standard on high-spec models and optional on all but the most basic models (which with FG get a new five-speed autobox).

Once upon a time, it was true that Australian-made cars were not exactly the last word in sophistication. That started to change in 1997 with the VT Commodore and the 2002 BA Falcon cemented that notion. Australian cars nowadays are not just better in absolute terms than they have ever been, they are far closer to the world’s best than they have ever been – and the gap is closing all the time. That is not only my opinion, that is the outcome of any even remotely objective analysis. Since you ask, in terms of handling and ride, I happen to think that the Falcon would compare favourably with any similarly-sized premium car from around the world, irrespective of price difference. A loaded Falcon here is around 40 grand; a truly basic 5-Series, with a 2.0 diesel, kicks off at neatly double that.

There are a variety of reasons why Falcon and Commodore sales are falling, few of which have to do with the intrinsic quality of the cars themselves. Firstly, the rise of novated leasing. In the past, people drove a basic Commodore or Falcon because that’s what they were told to drive by their managers. Nowadays, people tend to get an upper-spend limit and far more choice in their company cars. A Falcon or a Commodore – or for that matter a Camry or Aurion – isn’t seen as having the necessary cred in the carpark, against, say, a shiny imported Euro. The article you reference backs my point: “Large cars made up 53.6 per cent of fleet car sales in 2002, while this year the figure has slipped to 40.6 per cent.”

Coupled with this is a certain ‘image problem’ which has (IMHO at least) little to do with reality, but is a reality in itself nevertheless. Falcons and Commodores, in addition to being seen as ‘fleet’ or ’sales rep’ cars, are regarded by some of the trendier parts about town as a bit pleb, a bit lower-class. There is even a body of opinion which regards them as (whisper it) ‘bogan’ vehicles. Or in Americanese, wagons for hicks. I don’t necessarily think this is fair or accurate – but it’s just how it is.

You have also quoted some figures out of their proper context. It’s been common knowledge within the industry for years that Falcon and Commodore sales are heavily fleet-biased – as indeed are sales of all Australian-made cars nowadays. This is why novated leasing has hit the figures so hard. Falcon and Commodore sales have always been ‘propped up’ by fleet sales – as indeed are those of the Camry and, until recently, Mitsubishi’s 380 (slightly revised Galant with a locally-developed 3.8 V6). The closure of Mitsubishi’s South Australian factory has been on the cards for years and is a major story in itself; suffice to say that an industry insider told me, exactly a year after the 380’s launch, that the number of private sales it was generating per month was down to two digits. And began with a 3. The fact is, Falcon and Commodore long dominated the sales charts and if Ford and Holden did abandon the segment altogether before now, you’d have been all over them like a rash pointing to short-sightedness or timidity.

Not that all of Ford and GM-H’s problems are outside their own making. Back in the late 1980s, both launched all-new versions of the Commodore and Falcon – the VN and EA respectively. Both were underdeveloped (the Falcon in particular); early models of both suffered from very poor quality; both were put right soon enough, but the damage to reputations was done. In fairness it must be noted that Holden especially also suffered a raft of quality glitches with VT and with some early VEs. But as you guys well know, bad reputations tend to stick.

Fuel costs are rising all the time. Petrol is still cheap here compared to Europe, but in the Australian context, A$1.50 is significantly higher than we have been used to. That naturally has an impact on whether people want to spend money on a big family car powered by a 3.6- or 4-litre six. This despite the fact that around 10L/100km (projected consumption of the new Falcon) is pretty good going for any car with a 4-litre petrol six.

It is, moreover, an untruth that Ford and Holden “never developed smaller cars”. During the ‘79 oil shock, GM-H very nearly went to the wall doing exactly that. Guess what – the J-Car made it downunder, badged Camira. The basics were good too – contemporaneous reports cited fine handling and a willing 1.6 (Family II) engine. Unfortunately this was all undone by dismal quality – but I expect you can probably guess the rest so I won’t bore you with the details. Long version short, the Camira only succeeded in cannibalising Commodore sales and Holden was stuck with the cost of building two lines for the sales of one.

Ford didn’t screw up like that; in fact it built its own version of the Mazda 323, badged Laser, downunder for a good decade and a half. Quite successful, as I recall. Class-leading sales successful for a decent proportion of its life, in fact. In the mid-1990s they shuttered local production as they couldn’t make the sums work. Not that they were alone – Toyota closed local Corolla production in the late 1990s too, as did Nissan with its Pulsar (actually they closed up shop altogether in 1992 after losing about a billion dollars, but that’s another, excruciating, tale altogether). Regardless, it’s not as though Ford is completely blind to market realities – it’s contracted to build the Focus here from 2011.

The Australian car industry has a lot of challenges in the years ahead, but your comparison with the U.S. landscape is, with respect, misguided. For one thing, the locals have something approaching accountable management and a degree of competence. For another, they’re aware of the problems and are actually trying to do something about them.

Both Ford Australia and GM-H have come perilously close to the brink before, on more than one occasion. They mightn’t succeed in staving off the Grim Reaper this time, but it’s a bit early to be closing the book on them just yet. At least they’re having a go at ensuring a viable future for themselves. Which, on the face of it, is a lot more than GM and Chryslerbus have any intention of doing over your end.