Never mind all that “buy American” and “Asian cars are the enemy” rhetoric. The United Auto Workers (UAW) would love to get their hands on the transplants’ southern redoubts. With their numbers dwindling due to Detroit’s plant closures and buyouts, the UAW realizes they have to go trolling in the transplants’ ponds to stay alive. Last Saturday, they tested the waters with a small group of Toyota workers at the brand’s Georgetown, Kentucky plant. The UAW is smacking their lips at the prospect of dining on catfish sushi.
The meeting was the direct result of a major management screw up. In January, Toyota’s leadership discovered that an employee at the plant had unearthed a confidential file on a shared network drive . The document disclosed the fact that ToMoCo's management was discussing "a greater emphasis on variable pay and ways to slow the growth of our labor costs, including the cost of benefits."
The memo recommended that Toyota work to bring its wage structure into closer alignment with other local industries and "not tie ourselves so closely to the U.S. auto industry or other competitors." Translation: Toyota’s higher ups are unhappy that the company’s labor costs (as a percentage of sales) are increasing faster than their profit margins.
Despite Toyota’s attempts at damage control, the press got ahold of the memo. Rather than fess-up and explain their competitive dilemma, Toyota sacrificed a pair of a scapegoats. They fired two Georgetown plant employees for allegedly accessing and distributing the confidential document.
The employees admitted reading the doc (as did several hundred others), but denied sending it to the press. As allowed by Toyota personnel policy, they pleaded their case before a five-member peer review board. The board ruled that they were both innocent. Toyota management overruled the review board’s decision and fired them.
Salting the wounds, Toyota remained silent on any investigations into– or disciplinary actions against– the person or persons who left the confidential document on the company-wide computer network.
As expected, the UAW seized upon this “unpleasantness” to step up their efforts to unionize the Toyota plant, to gain a precious foothold deep in the heart of non-union territory. On Saturday, the UAW hosted a town hall forum entitled “The Human Cost of Toyota’s Success” in Lexington, Kentucky.
About 150 UAW representatives, Toyota employees, members of the press and other interested parties attended the meeting. Even though the Georgetown plant employs almost 7k workers, only five people spoke at the gathering, including the workers who were dismissed over the confidential document. No representatives from Toyota management attended– at least not officially.
The speakers addressed the document’s implications for Toyota’s HR plans. They also aired a number of complaints about the way the Georgetown plant is managed. They asserted that Toyota does not take workplace injuries seriously, that full-time workers have “disappeared” (to be replaced by lower cost temporary workers) and that training opportunities have dwindled to the point of extinction.
Needless to say, it this was music to the UAW’s collective ears. “It’s time for Toyota to sign a contract with us like everyone else they do business with,” Vice President Terry Thurman announced. The man who directs the UAW’s National Organizing department and helped organize the meeting added, “This is all about Toyota workers.”
The sequence of those two statements tells you everything you need to know about the UAW’s priorities. There’s only one reason they’re making a full-court press against Toyota: it’s their only hope for survival. If the UAW has any success organizing Georgetown you can rest assured they’ll start looking for further inroads into the rest of the transplants’ non-union plants.
Even though the UAW stated their Toyota kvetchfest was not an “organizing event,” they now have a foot firmly in Toyota’s door. The UAW and the National Jobs with Justice Campaign plan to capitalize on their success by establishing a Worker’s Rights Board in Kentucky. According to the UAW's press release, this organization “will be available to hear personal stories of Toyota workers and recommend appropriate remedies when necessary.” In other words, they’ll be collecting information they can use to further their attempts to organize the plant.
And they’ll be moving on from there. One worker from the Toyota plant in West Virginia attending the Kentucky meeting asked if the UAW could conduct a similar meeting for workers at his plant. Of course, the union immediately agreed, seizing the chance to get a presence established at a second Toyota location.
Toyota has no one to blame but itself for this perilous state of affairs. Their sloppy record keeping and short sighted damage control could give the UAW the leverage they need to start pulling Toyota into the same rat hole that disappeared Detroit. Meanwhile, even as they seek to organize Toyota, the UAW continues to call the automaker their enemy. And so it is.
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This will make for some uncharted territory for Toyota and other automakers without a union contract. If I remember correctly, these companies set up plants in states that had lax laws regarding organized labour (re: anti-union). So if a plant organizes, I wonder what Toyota will do: expand elsewhere, phase out the vehicle lines that the plant manufactures or will they bite the bullet and deal with a resurgent UAW?
If they do organize, I wonder if the UAW will use Toyota (the one with all the money) as the starting point in future collective negotiations? This would put even more pressure on the domestics and the UAW would be ulitmately less concerned about whether those companies live or die as they’ll have new sugar daddies to use.
I understand the UAW represents workers at the California NUMMI (Toyota) plant. Do those UAW members receive the same benefits/have same contract as the UAW in Detroit? IF so the UAW could cut to the chase and announce Toyota will be the designated strike target during pattern contract negotiations. That will tell the UAW real fast how much the transplant workers want their represaentation.
If I were Toyota I wouldn’t be too worried yet. First of all, it’s a long way from having a few workers with complaints to a vote to Unionize. A long way, and along that road, Toyota can certainly offer its workers sweet deals on the explicit grounds that they will only be available if the workers reject the union. Seeing other UAW workers idled, bought off, or just booted out as big 2.5 plants close isn’t going to help UAW recruiting either.
If worse comes to worst (which I doubt would happen absent some catastophic economic downturn) then Toyota’s number crunchers can simply balance the additional cost of the union vs. the import costs and tariffs they’d pay if they made the cars overseas. At some point, it becomes cheaper to import, and Toyota having significant overseas capacity, they could just shift production to those facilities and show their US workers the door – all the while reminding the workers that it was the UAW that put them in this state of affairs.
Of course, they don’t even have to do the above, merely make a credible threat to do it and the UAW is toast. Unlike the 2.5 UAW workers who seem to regard their high salaries and lavish benefits as an entitlement, workers at non-UAW plants in the South are only too aware of just how ephemeral a seemingly “secure” job can be.
I can’t stand the idea of contracts. While I agree, getting fired for no reason sucks, I believe people work at the discretion of companies. If someone sucks at their job, or they are no longer needed, some contract should not be the reason the company has to keep dead weight around. I mean, it really offends me. I don’t wnat to work around some slacker, that results in me having to work harder. Why do other union memebers want this? Get another job. I have been trying to get another job for a couple of years now, but you won’t catch me whining about needing a contract. This is the same reason Gm has ridiculous waiting rooms full of un-needed workers getting full pay for years. On the other hand, Toyota does have an attitude. I interviewed at the WV plant here, and my father worked there. There is a high use of contract labor. They seem to be happy though, as well as the full time employees. There are little to no jobs here, so people are happy to have anything. Besides, people shouldn’t be making $30/hr to drive a forklift, or screw on a steering wheel. I am a ibg fan of a nice family supporting wage, but you have to have skills to do that. You don’t need skills to drive a forklift or use a wrench. My 6 year old nephew can do the wrench part, and with a booster seat, could be trained in a couple of weeks to drive a forklift. Oh, I am ranting……
The UAW has a very well earned and very well known reputation for protecting the deadbeats in the organization. This is their #1 enemy in organizing the transplants. Everyone gets tired of carrying these slackers.
It might happen someday, but it will take years.
And, yes, the fact that Toyota has oodles of money comes into play. Not so much that they can use it to crush Detroit, but that they can break ground for a greenfield plant in Mexico or the Dominican Republic any time. In other words, if the UAW organizes, they have the money to shut a US plant down and open somewhere else. It’s beer money to them at this point. Thats the biggest stick that Toyota carries.
This disgusts me. My impression of the UAW organizing a Toyota plant is the death sentence for Toyota in 20 years. I’m all for workers rights, but not the rights that the UAW seems to think they are entitled to. Call me a rat bastard, capitalist, or anything else you may, but the last thing auto workers need long-term is to have somebody telling them that they should get paid huge sums of money and benefits for a job that could, and can be done for 1/4 the price elsewhere. If you want to keep your job, understand where it’s going to go when you get to greedy. How many Fusions are your boys building, Gettelfinger?
the worse thing that can happen is the pro-union toyota workers strike…toyota lets them strike…and just hires someone else to do the job. for the same if not less then the orignal worker is doing it for.
I’m just not sure they can get the same leverage going with a transplant.
I’m not a Toyota fan, but I sure hope they can ensure the UAW is kept out. The UAW has proven itself to be a cancer on what’s left of the Detroit 2.5. Nothing but paper pushers padding their fat sweaty asses.
Toyota Deathwatch 1
i wonder if the UAW could get there foot in the door at Burger King…i would love to make $30/hr to flip burgers
format display new the with sense make they that so backwards comments my typing start to have to going i’m guess i gaa
as Johnston said, most foreign brands have built plants in right-to-work states
also don’t forget that the UAW worked on Honda for over 10 years and never even got to the voting stage
and at Nissan they got to the voting stage and lost bigtime
what they’re actually hoping for is that the Democrats will pass “card check” and that will facilitate the UAW takeover without a vote
Gotta love it when the UAW cranks up the rhetoric, like “The Human Cost of Toyota’s Success”. How dare Toyota open new plants in the US and create thousands of new jobs in rural areas! And how dare Toyota management try to do things like keep costs in check! If the domestics had any clue on how to do either of those properly they wouldn’t be experiencing many of the problems that have plagued them for decades.
UAW = tapeworm looking for its next host
Gah, put the comments back in the proper order and don’t default to only displaying 5 at a time. 20-25 is a much more reasonable number.
But back on topic, Toyota should take a page from McDonald’s book when it comes to their employees trying to form unions. Fire ‘em all and start over, and don’t re-hire anyone who was fired to work at any Toyota plant, ever. Worked for Mickey-D’s. Yes, it is harsh, but the writing is on the wall for the UAW. If Toyota wants to continue having long-term success, they need to stay far away from the UAW.
I’m just amazed at ToMoCo… I thought they were smarter than this.
Some of their employees are probably seeing this as a wake-up-call and are going to start wondering how safe their jobs are.
I’m sure the UAW will be sure to “inform” them. Unions are only wanted when worker’s feel they’re getting stiffed.
About two weeks ago, NPR had a series of interviews with Toyota employees about how happy and well trained they are at Georgetown.
Besides, people shouldn’t be making $30/hr to drive a forklift, or screw on a steering wheel. I am a ibg fan of a nice family supporting wage, but you have to have skills to do that. You don’t need skills to drive a forklift or use a wrench. My 6 year old nephew can do the wrench part, and with a booster seat, could be trained in a couple of weeks to drive a forklift. Oh, I am ranting……
Is it me, or is this the beginning of the age of unappreciation of the blue collar? Granted, a $30/hr forklift operator may seem a bit excessive, but is it really fair to compare auto assembly to unskilled labor, or will automotive quality have to take a step back to 1970’s levels to demonstrate that you have to have a brain to build a piece of complex machinery like an automobile? Why is it that people tend to think that because a job doesn’t require a bachelor’s degree it doesn’t require some skill to perform it? This underappreciation of the hourly wage employee only serves to create an underclass where these workers are seen as expendable, and wrongly so.
While the unions have been great for Toyota auto workers, (Why do you think the pay doesn’t reflect local rates? It is union defense) actually unionizing would probably end their jobs pretty quick, and they know that.
Interestingly, the memo if nothing else suggests that Toyota is less worried about the UAW. One supposes they have a plan, should lowered pay rates cause an infestation. Of course Toyota could probably turn a profit even with the UAW. (Most of the 2.5’s problems lie in poor planning, and inadequate saving during good times and underestimation of health care)
While I can agree that the UAW has no entirely had the best interest of the rank and file in mind, before everyone goes off half-cocked on them go back and review American history and understand why they are there in the first place.
Look back on the days prior to unionization. Employees of factories, coal mines, and other industries were treated like crap and regularly cheated out of their wages. The old song “16 Tons” comes to mind. Go read the lyrics. They refer to a day when coal miners were not paid in real money, only credit for the company store. The prices at these stores were often inflated, and the employess would have to draw on credit get the things they needed for their families. The cycle practically enslaved them to their job because they “owed their soul to the company store.” And regarding workplace safety? What workplace safety? There is a good reason why men were willing to, and did, lay down their own lives for the right to organize.
Like it or not, it is because of unionization that most of the working population of the US enjoys the wages and benefits that it does. Industries that are not unionized usually enjoy a good standard of living much in part to the fear that doing otherwise will result unionization. If the transplants are smart, they’ll treat their non-union workers well enough that they’ll stay non-union.
On the flip side of that, the UAW is getting what it deserves. I know of at least one Caterpiller plant that was closed and moved South due to the UAW convincing the workers to strike themselves right out of a job. If they don’t wise up, history will repeat itself at the Big 2.5.
quasimondo: i have no problem with blue collar at all. I have a problem with blue collar that makes disproportionate wages to his actual job. the forklift refereence was made after i spoke with said forklift driver from Ford. There are pletny of workers that do deserve their wages. Otherwise, I am criticizing the seniority and pay scales that go with the “contracts”. I don’t care how long you work at Ford, if you are doing something that anyone with functioning eye(s) and arm(s) can do, they shouldn’t be making more than the national average. No broad blue collar insult was meant.
oh yeah, and anyone with a job is expendable. white collar, blue collar, gold collar, whatever. we work while we are needed and productive for our bosses. that is our primary function at said job. just because it inconveniences us personally to be fired is irrelevant. if you want guarantees of great pay and job security IF you warrant neither, then what you seek is socialsm, or communism even. But as another poster just wrote, Unions were once critical to our country’s growth. Now I find that they have just gotten greedy and frivolous. UMWA seems to be the only one i respect anymore. Not that I am fan of hugh corps either. fair is fair though.
The UAW using the NUMMI plant in California as their next strike target would be all Toyota could dream for! Really!
It would be the end of the UAW. Toyota (which owns 50% of the NUMMI plant, with GM holding 50%) would simply shift production of their pickup trucks elsewhere (like, run their plant in Mexico on three shifts and expand it – thanks, NAFTA!) and tell GM “tough luck, until the UAW can do the job – no more Pontiac Vibes.”
Because Toyota can out-last the UAW like GM never dreamed of in it’s wildest imagination.
The UAW has become a cancer. However, this event will be taken under advisement by Toyota – and I mean all the way to the top.
Toyota isn’t a company to let lessons be left unlearned, and they will strive to ensure that any changes in pay – from “equivalent pay to prevailing wages in high wage states at UAW plants” on to “better pay than anything available in the area of our plants” is done on a slow and steady basis, and kept under wraps.
Because, let’s be honest. Anyone with say a high school diploma and maybe a 2 or 4 year degree, and any sense, would rather have a job paying 30% above average for the area they live in – rather than be an unemployed ex-UAW auto worker with no prospects of selling one’s house in order to get out of Michigan, and working at Micky-D’s.
What about a different union? The UAW has shown itself to be selfish, shortsighted, and rigid, but the behavior of some of the Japanese management in the US clearly shows a need for a union to rein in their excesses. Perhaps the SEIU should step in, or since they are coal country the United Mineworkers could try organizing.
Ok. I guess I’m a little puzzled. Having read the editorial and the associated comments it is obvious this group is anti-union. Although, more accurately, anti-UAW. And that’s fine, I suppose. I wonder, though, if the “baby with the bathwater” analogy applies here. Do all of you want to see a return of 60 to 80 hour work weeks, continuous, repetitive, life long injury inducing work conditions at your jobs. Do any of you think that Toyota, or whoever, will not take advantage of every opportunity to turn the screws a little tighter?
Please know that I am not in a union. Have been only once for about three months with no impact. I am NOT advocating UAW unionization of Toyota. I have been in middle management most of my life. But I just don’t get this. I know the UAW has abused their power, just as corporate management has abused theirs. But I’ve been around. Are we gonna leave employee protection to the state? Do we want the working class here to be like the working class in China? Or even Mexico? Don’t we want to bring these nations up to our level and not drag ourselves down to theirs?
I don’t get it.
I have never been a supporter of the UAW. But I’m not going to castigate them for wanting to organize any plant, especially one where 2 employees are fired after being exonerated by a board that the company itself setup. Remember when working for the Japanese, especially Toyota, meant you were “empowered”? You could stop the line, talk directly to upper management, and everyone was treated fairly. Maybe this still goes on but I’m starting to wonder.
The real question that has to asked (and needs it’s own editorial, hint, hint) is “what the hell has happened to Toyota?”. They have been the darlings of the auto industry. It seemed liked they could do no wrong – hell they never even got any bad press if they DID do something wrong. Now look at them. Recall after recall, over estimation of Tundra sales potential, pushing back the redesign of the Corolla because it wasn’t ready to go up against the new Civic. Now this. And have you read the TTAC review of the Avalon? It reads like a review of a domestic without the gripes about reliability or cheap plastics. Even on the web I’m seeing complaints in various forums about Lexus.
Toyota is not ready for any kind of deathwatch, they are perched so high in automotive firmament that it will take years for them to become a mere fallen angel but maybe this is how it started when other companies began their downward slide.
unions are the result of poor management. If the UAW does succedd it will be due to poor management.
no one is going back to 80 hour workweeks…unless you’re a doctor. I would quit. The unions represent very little of the workforce anymore…and the ones that aren’t are not working 80 hr weeks. the real reason we don’t work that is because we would refuse to do it. we don’t need a union to do it. we have a large economy, and we would go to a job that doesn’t. the idea that every industry in America would double the workeek at the same time to avoid this career hopping is unlikely as well. The market should determine wages, not blackmail. Toyota is in a good position to keep its nose clean, as long as it keeps their workers happy. in the end, thats what counts: happy workers and happy company. that is a lesson to all companies that want to abuse their employees. What is happening at GM and the others shows what happens on the other end of the spectrum. It is financially better to all involved for everyone to be happy…that way one side doesn’t do something that will start a chain reaction. I have to get back to work before I get fired. I don’t have any contract guaranteeing my job for slacking on the net.
“How many Fusions are your boys building, Gettelfinger?”
Nuf Said.
“The UAW has become a cancer. However, this event will be taken under advisement by Toyota – and I mean all the way to the top.”
Did this stunt kill-off any future expansion plans in the US by Toyota? The Mexicans must be loving this.
Ive been working 60-80 hour weeks for 15 years now. I have been so unfair to me, I think I will unionize myself.
With US labor laws, I find it shocking that anybody would hire anybody… Unionized or not.
________________________________________________
Is it me, or is this the beginning of the age of unappreciation of the blue collar? Granted, a $30/hr forklift operator may seem a bit excessive, but is it really fair to compare auto assembly to unskilled labor, or will automotive quality have to take a step back to 1970’s levels to demonstrate that you have to have a brain to build a piece of complex machinery like an automobile?
________________________________________________
No, it isn’t.
Look at it this way, for example a tech in an auto repair shop has to be computer literate and able to think in order to diagnose complex problems, and makes less then half then a union member that basically just has to be able to show up while breathing and tightens the same nut every day.
The perception is that unions are means of protecting what amounts to entitlements for the incompetent, and if one goes into the demographics of even more educated people that are under severe wage pressures it would not be unreasonable to think that a good percentage of them would specifically purchase non union made cars.
It really isn’t relevant whether the perception is correct or not in specific cases with specific individuals, people will act on their perceptions.
I would wager that if Toyota were unionized, over time there would be a shift to buying something else. The unions may buy a little more time, but they are finished because they went a bridge too far.
quasimondo: “Why is it that people tend to think that because a job doesn’t require a bachelor’s degree it doesn’t require some skill to perform it? This underappreciation of the hourly wage employee only serves to create an underclass where these workers are seen as expendable, and wrongly so.”
I don’t think that if something doesn’t require a bachelor’s degree it’s not a skilled job. However, I do think think that wages should be in line with the scaricity of that skill. e.g. I can’t weld, so if I need something fixed, I’m happy to pay a welder (who likely doesn’t have a bachelor’s degree) $80/hour because his skill is rare. However, not all of the jobs at the auto plants aren’t highly skilled jobs, most of them require turning lugnuts, or pushing a button to tell the robot to do the welding, etc. It’s those jobs that should be getting the lower wages and the jobs that require actual skill (i.e. you have more jobs available than people who can do them) should be the ones getting the big bucks.
“UAW = tapeworm looking for its next host”
Second that.
The problem I see here is not the UAW or Toyota.
The UAW does what it’s set-up to do. After killing one host (Big 2.5), it has to seek another host to survive.
Knowing Toyota, it will not watch this lesson repeat itself. Firing all who strike is one option. (Don’t worry, those jobs will be filled up in a week.) Moving to Mexico, Canada, etc. is another. If the Big 2.5 could do it, surely Toyota can better that.
The problem IS with the few greedy, short-sighted Toyato workers who probably were fed too much UAW cool-aid and talked to way too many “I’m entitled to a full pension & 150k salary for watching my union buddy screw the Fusion hex” EX-Big 2.5-workers. They foolishly believe that despite their having a decent job (and their Detroit brethren don’t) for a stable company, they can still do better.
These greedy soon-to-be-ex-Toyota employees will surely have a lot of time to ponder the truth of Gordon Gekko’s infamous saying.
On the other hand, Toyota is learning the hard lesson that when you succeed in becoming the only one standing at the top, you’ll be viewed as the tyrant.
“On the other hand, Toyota is learning the hard lesson that when you succeed in becoming the only one standing at the top, you’ll be viewed as the tyrant.”
A victim of thier own success like Microsoft and Walmart… A fat pig for the parasites to feast upon.
If I were President of Mexico, I would resign…But first I would help the UAW organize all the transplants in the US…..
oh yeah, and anyone with a job is expendable. white collar, blue collar, gold collar, whatever. we work while we are needed and productive for our bosses. that is our primary function at said job. just because it inconveniences us personally to be fired is irrelevant.
That’s a lopsided employer-employee relationship if I’ve ever heard one. It’s not incorrect, but this gives the corporations too much power. They expect you to be productive and help make them lots of money by giving using your talents and skills, but they can’t even offer something like job security in return? This is just giving them the green light to walk all over you. This kind of argument shows why unions aren’t as outdated as you think.
Toyota is in the right to want to limit its expenses they just should be more transparent about it and they handled it with a heavy hand.
As to the UAW, their time has past. Unions in general time has passed. Take a look at the housing industry. A good carpenter doesn’t make as much as someone who attaches doors to a car? A good teacher probably even less. Why should said door attacher who is only allowed to attach doors by contract be guaranteed a job? It’s ridiculous!
Who in their right mind could run a company when if you don’t have the work to support all your workers that you couldn’t lay them off? “Sorry we don’t have anything for you to do but we’ll still pay you anyway.” Stupid is as stupid does.
I have nothing against the concept of organized labor – it seems to work for German car makers which have company based unions (rather than industry based). My objection to most American unions is that they are mainly interested in playing power games and not really in representing the long term interests of their workers.
I’ll give you an example: I was on a business trip in a town in northern Ohio last week which is really suffering from a manufacturing downturn. A ship building company offered to relocate there and offered $30 per hour. The union demanded $35 per hour and the company got scared and went somewhere else. How is it in the workers interest to be unemployed rather then make $30 an hour?
The week before I was at a unionized business in the same state. The head of one of the unions representing its workers had a personal feud with the owners of the business and swore to put him out of business by demanding the most outrageous restrictive work practices. They doesn’t care that their members will lose their jobs as part of this process, they just want to demonstrate how much power they have – not serve the members.
Toyota best change its tune as letting the UAW into their business is like giving in to organized crime – their demands know no reason or limits and they don’t care if Toyota or their own members lose their livelihood because of it.
These are cars we’re talking about, not some piece of Ikea furniture. Show me a car that can be built by anybody with six fingers and one eye and I’ll show you a 1986 Hyundai Excel.
Lets see Toyota wants to be number one,nothing wrong with that.Toyota wants to set up assembly plants north american wide,no down side to that.
Oh yeah Toyota wants the consumer to believe,that thier product is somehow superior to the competition, fair enough.
Toyota would have you believe that the contribute as much as the domestic car companys do to the N/A economy. What? Toyota doesn't want the UAW and all the baggage that comes with it.Why not?
Well it seems the UAW wants fair wages, seniority agreements, pensions and safe working conditions.
Oh no! says Toyota we don't want to take on the "crap" that the big 2.5 has to deal with.We just want to sell cars make a bucket full of money,and take it back to Japan.We don't want to marry our employees,and have them contribute to the rest of the economy, like those nasty UAW types.We don't want a level playing field, we want to kick the ass of the big 2.5.without pesky"legacy costs"The american tax payer can pick up that,down the road.
GO GET EM UAW!
I live in a community where Toyota has a major impact and soon to open another plant in the area. I know a number of employees who work for them and have never heard them complain over the wage they earn despiste the fact they do work damn hard and long to get it.
I believe that Toyota has a right to try and lower their costs in any manner as does the UAW the right to try and organize. Having said that I feel it would be shortsighted for employees of any company to follow the mandates of a union that has a track record of forcing employers to find new locations because their greedy demands.
Far better said employees attempt to work with management on compromises and negotiation through an in-plant association than to rely on sending there hard earned dollars to an orgainization who has at best a tawdry reputation and a track record that reeks of graft and inner corruption in it's history.
In comparison Toyota comes off squeeky clean and this transgression though leaked should be no shock to any person who follows corportate business. The handling of said incident tragically was poorly conducted by the company and perhaps the PR dept should be the people dismissed over the poor outcome.
Happy Motoring
colinpolyps
Toyota gets an infection through their own actions and ignorance and UAW/Cancer moves in to kill the host!
"Well it seems the UAW wants fair wages, seniority agreements, pensions and safe working conditions."
As we have stated, they want Above Fair Wages. Seniority is irrelevant, you get a raise if you deserve one, or a new position if you deserve one, not just becasue you have been punching your time card longer than the better guy standing next to you.
Pensions are up to all of us with 401k's and whatnot…if a company contributes, choose that over a company that doesn't. Traditional retirement is over. Personally, I can't even get a 401k. SAfe working conditions are the responsibility of OSHA. You have a problem, report it to them.
Unions are responsible for that creation (thank you) now the union does not need to carry that flag anymore. Granted, some politicians want to erode that OSHA protection, in which case striking for safety may be viable again someday.
How many strikes do you see for safety anymore? All i see is medical coverage and benefits. Really, who doesn't have to contribute to their own healthcare anymore? BCBS raises our company's insurance premiums 26% each year, yet the politicians complain about a national average of 12%, and the unions complain about $20.
We can't afford another 26% increase this year, so we will lose some coverage. Its not always about greedy corporations, sometimes its a matter of company survival. Toyota has its first ripple in the water from this, but the 2.5 have a Tsunami coming in fast.
Uh, what was the original point?
Mike,
Seniority agreements and pensions have no place in the current business world.
I don’t care if person x has worked for the company for 10 years and person y for one. If person y has more qualifications and has demonstrated they are the better qualified for a new position that is open internally, they should get it. I’ve seen too many seniority based things go horribly wrong because it is entitlement based. Just because you show up to work each day like the rest of your co-workers does not mean you are entitled to anything. Entitlement also flies in the face capitalism and our economy as we know it.
We’ve also seen where pensions get companies.
I wonder where people get off thinking these two things specifically are what is necessary to do a job.
They expect you to be productive and help make them lots of money by giving using your talents and skills, but they can’t even offer something like job security in return? This is just giving them the green light to walk all over you.
Create your own job (i.e., risk your own money creating your own job) and see what funny it is.
Employers can be placed out of business anytime due to market forces. To ask them job security is a surefire recipe for making prospective capitalists to invest their money elsewhere.
Comparing the UAW to a tapeworm is an insult to the tapeworm.
Spanishguy, I think we can appreciate the difference between a workforce reduction because times on the company are tough and they have too many mouths to feed, and what a company like Circuit City is doing by laying off experienced workers so they can hire cheaper replacements.
It may be car stereo installers and wharehouse workers today, but what’s to say your job won’t go byebye because the bosses think they’re paying you too much, even though you’re one of their top employees?
quasimondo,
I see absolutely no problem with that. Circuit City is a dumb company to begin with, so if they feel like $2/hour is not worth the experience, more power to them. If you’re really that skilled, Best Buy will be all over you.
It’s the grim grin of capitalism. Everyone’s for himself. Selling is every bit as important as doing, so you have to know how to sell yourself well.
Some people still can’t cope with the fact that they have to have the skills to sell themselves, so they get picked up by contractors. Which is not bad at all – way better than unions, because contractors are much more interested in the long-term financial success of their
hostclient. And they often even charge less. Capitalism at its best.… And when you try to mess with capitalism, the commies come out of the bushes. Which is not so bad, cause first thing they’ll do is they’ll shoot all the lawyers :)
If the Toyota work environment is so bad, why do thousands of Americans stand in line to fill out applications to work there when a new plant is built? Or why are there hundreds of applicants waiting for a chance to be interviewed to work there?
A person has a choice where they work, if they do not like it, leave. There is always a group of workers who whine, complain, want to get a union involved when they don't get their crybaby way. Sort of like buying a house next to an existing airport and then complaining about the noise, these employees knew it was non-union when they went to work there.
Toyota probably could have handled it better, but again the employees payroll checks are clearing the bank, they are getting what was promised them by their employer, if they don't like it, go get a different job, or God forbid, start their own company and see how tough it is.
I wonder how many of the UAW members over the past many years took the time to go to college, and increase their skill level or education, while working for the 2.5? so they could prepared for the layoffs/buyouts. I would guess not many.
My guess is if Toyota or any other car make that is non-union is put in a position to unionized, they will head out of the U.S.. Wake up people!
God…this kills me.
for the past 12 years I've worked 50-60 hours a week in various jobs (without even considering time spent traveling for work) and can't complain. The idea of a 40 hour work week is so foreign to me it's hard to even imagine. Even in college, I was studying and in class for more than 50 hours a week. What would you do with the extra time…sit in traffic?
Maybe it's years of being in sales that has brought me to the point that I can't identify with the whining of hourly workers. Try waking up every day with no guarantee that putting in 9-10 hours of hard work will net you a dime.
And I like what I do, otherwise I would find something better.
Idealistic, naive, and somewhat hypocritical.
The only thing more powerful in the world today than a multinational corporation is a (actually, only some) governments. And that’s only because governments have guns. Yet many here suggest we all throw our fates to the benevolent whims of a corporation . . . every man for himself, against the behemoth. Good luck. Oh . . . those who scream at the thought of government-sponsored healthcare are now suggesting that OHSA is our savior to insure a safe workplace. Again, good luck.
The corporation is legally mandated to crush you if it means more profit. The government simply wants to treat you like property. By yourself, you have pretty much zero leverage against either. In the face of this, the idea of banding together to try and face off against the giants almost sounds quaint. But the popular opinion here seems to be that instead, this is evil.
I’m really curious as to the economic/career status of some of the hardcore posters here. I mean, come on . . . how many people can *really* just choose to quit their job if the boss demands too much? All the folks suggesting that must really be some golden boys. I actually did it, once . . . and ended up forced into moving to a new city, taking a loss on my house, and dropping about 20% in my salary. And frankly I’m no slouch .. . MS in engineering, MBA from a top-10 school, 15 years experience with some good companies. At the time I was lucky because my kid wasn’t in school yet, so it didn’t mean ripping her from friends. Now it’s be worse. Constantly harping on that particular chestnut is rather annoying, frankly.
dkulmacz:
"The corporation is legally mandated to crush you if it means more profit", just who do you think makes up the corporation? The mentality of the corporation always being the bad guy is simply not true.
Yes,some corporations do bad things (sometimes very bad, like Enron), but many have also provided a standard of living in this country unsurpassed in world history. I too sir have gone to college and earned college degrees, while working full time, it can be done.
Most people in this country work for or own small businesses, those who work for large corporations can choose to do so if they wish. I always shake my head when I hear people complain about Wal-Mart, and all the supposed wrongs they do, yet there would be no Wal-Mart if people did not choose to shop there, or work there.
I know people in unions who shop at Wal-Mart, and those same people complain about the diminishing role of the unions in this country. The posters on this site who take the UAW to task do so for good reason, it is not simply people banding together and fighting a great evil, the UAW has come to stand for self-serving greed that is as bad as the mistakes the 2.5 have made.
It is one thing to protect's someone's safety and employer promises, but quite another to demand full pay for not working, endless and unlimited medical care, and huge buyouts.
I agree with you that national healthcare is folly. I prefer not to think of it as "everyman for himself" but freedom to choose the path one can take in life, and one does not like that path, then change it.
I own two companies, started from working from my home and grown since then. Again, if the employees hate their situation, and complain, like in Detroit, band together, get the financing and start your own car company, see how long they would last as business owners.