It wouldn’t be all that much and the health care and education systems would have greatly reduced burdens which would lower costs in those areas. My wife is an RN at a hospital in north Texas and we have a big problem with illegals and medical costs. Border town hospitals are really hurting.

I just don’t understand why people have so much animosity against illegal immigrants, yet hardly any against the more serious socioeconomic problems we face.

The same reason people have animosity toward other criminals.

So, we should set our standards and laws based on the lowest, ignorant idiots among us? Really? If this is the standard then we should govern all cars to the highest speed limit should we not? Or better yet, because many people would still speed, we should just govern them all to 35?

A lot of the animosity about illegals is poorly placed, but not all of it. They are after all, in the country only because they are breaking the laws. If your house guest refuses to leave after his stay, do you think it’s okay so long as he does chores? No. Rules are rules. The punishment for most illegals is deportation. We are a nice people. We could put them in gulags.

What we really need to do is greatly increase legal immigration. We have a wonderful country and we should invest in allowing in only the most desirable immigrants. People with skills, ambition, and a desire to become one of us. To be part of the great experiment.

I can’t figure out what we are doing now, but apparently it’s not working well.

First off, I’m not saying you are being racist, but that many Mexicans DO suffer from racial slanders and to many people it seems socially acceptable to do so.

Second, Al Gore is not at the White House taking our tax dollars. You totally missed the point of my Halliburton remark.

Third, selling crack clearly has a victim–the users. Does a group of illegals entering the labor market have a victim? See how much products and services increase in price if Mexicans did not work for pennies in this country.

I just don’t understand why people have so much animosity against illegal immigrants, yet hardly any against the more serious socioeconomic problems we face.

Who said anything about racism or hate? They are criminals. Period. I am so sick of being called a racist for saying that illegal aliens are criminals. I don’t give a sh%t what country they come from, I just know they are breaking the law. I would (and do) feel the same way if they were coming from England or Canada.

They aren’t murderers or crooks (*cough*halliburton*cough*), just people trying to make ends meet.

They ARE crooks (*cough*Al Gore*cough*). Someone who sells crack may be just “trying to make ends meet”. That does not excuse the crime.

Italy had several parallel cultures. They had an “underground” populated by Africans. These people would do anything to make a few Lira to send home or to make a better life for themselves there. There was alot of crime that followed them around b/c they were for hire. Generally not violent.

There was another group from the former Eastern Block countries. Same situation as the Africans. Many of them were escaping the war in Yugoslavia.

Now they have a huge Chinese population working jobs that officially don’t exist making goods that also officially don’t exist. No taxes getting paid either.

There are goods in stores and in markets in italy and now all over Europe that were imported illegally, never taxed, or made under less than gov’t standard factories (safety for workers or buyers for example).

In America we also have a parallel population of folks looking for a better life through jobs in America. Some would like to become legitimate. Some bring their problems with them and get here any way they can.

Maybe in other parts of the country you don’t notice but here in TN the news reports show that the people the police are working with the most are Hispanic and as before Black. The legal Hispanic population here is small so a good number of those folks on the news are here illegally. There are now Hispanic gangs where none existed before here.

Is this a question of race for me? Not really. Stats say all that need to be said about who is getting in trouble. Doesn’t matter why they are getting in trouble. All that matters is that they are held to the same laws and standards as anyone else. They are guests here (not even guests in case of the illegals) and need to be sent home if they get caught breaking the law. In case of the repeat offenders then put them in work camps where they can work for dinner for six months or something.

If we allow folks domestic or foreign to abuse and ignore the laws of the land we are going to find ourselves in deep stuff sooner rather than later. Maybe CA and NY are already there but TN is still a nice and generally safe place to live and I’d like to see it stay that way.

I recnetly saw an article where a Rutherford County, TN Deputy was reprimanded for stopping a vehicle owned and operated by a Hispanic fellow. He was driving two vehicles (2nd on a towbar), was found to be carrying handguns and multiple fake identification cards and the judge said that the deputy did not have the right to check the hispanic fellow’s immigration status. Huh?

So we have to hope that INS begins patrolling America to look for folks that slipped through the cracks? Last I heard they didn’t have enough manpower to properly man the borders. Every last gov’t law man ought to have the authority to check, detain and deport any non-citizen of our country no matter where they call home. What happened to all the gov’t legislation that is supposed to protect us from terrorists after 9/11? Shouldn’t we be packing folks out of the country no matter who they are if they aren’t supposed to be here.

Simply amazing how convoluted our gov’t’s rulebook is.

Those are my written words, I stand by them. It includes the countries below our porous southern border. However, I do include India as a Third World nation because it surely is.

“What an insult to the millions of hardworking immigrants who have entered the U.S. through academic and professional excellence and now contribute hugely to the well-being of this nation.”

That statement is off-topic. However, it’s safe to assume you mean “immigrants” from India and Pakistan. Fair enough, but they are not “immigrants” at all. They’re workers on temporary H1B visas (which they always overstay) and their low wages are destroying American jobs. Just because they write software code instead of picking fruit doesn’t make them any less “illegal.”

Nor does it give them a right to drive a car on our roads…..

This statement clearly illustrates why Profiling does NOT work. Criminals and Terrorist are not all stupid. If you dont check the old ladies you simple leave a security hole open large enough to to drive a 18 wheeler full of explosives through.
It is easy to make someone look like someone or something that they are not. The next issue that you need to deal with is that there just might be a little old lady that is going to blow up an airliner full of people because she is derranged.
What about the nut-job that will stuff a pound of explosives into their child’s carry-on bag?

The only people that think profiling is vaild are those that believe they are above being profiled.
Everyone else know this just does not work.
Exactly how do you profile all middle-eastern looking men and not profile the majority of Latino men, many of them do look alike? How do you profile Latinos for illegal immigrants and not end up profiling the tens of million US citizens of Latino decent? How do you determine if a blackman with a west-indian accent was born in Jamaica Queens or Jamaica W.I.?

The answer clearly is that it impossible to do so. Maybe in Japan it would be easy to identify who is a Japanese citizen and who is not or better yet who is NOT Asian. But in the good ole US of A, profiling on our roads is NOT the way to do it. Remember the overwheling majority of people profiled will end up being US citizens and needless to say will now be less than happy citizens after being “profiled” by what will generally be a police officer of another race.

Trust me, the issue of “Profiling” is real and it does happen rather frequently in some areas. Some of you “majority” guys need to understand this. It does become rather annoying to get pulled over in the same town mulitple times only to have the cops look at your wedding ring, briefcase, and child seat and simple let you go after dteremining that their “hunt” was unsuccessful.

To me, this whole “immigrants screwing up America” mentality is just a way for people to cast blame on our economic woes, when the real people we should be blaming are the people in the White House. It’s scary how people turn to xenophobia and other destructive mindsets as a defense mechanism. There is no way illegal immigrants (who perform MANY crucial jobs and keep our economy turning and cheap goods/services flowing) are burdening citizens more so than the likes of Halliburton are.

I’m certainly not for people breaking the law, as illegal immigrants clearly are, but why do they deserve the hate of average Americans when they provide us with so many services? It seems like they are one of the only groups that it is socially acceptable to be blatantly racist about. They aren’t murderers or crooks (*cough*halliburton*cough*), just people trying to make ends meet.

The argument that illegals cause social problems is flawed as well. ANY group of low socioeconomic status will have the SAME EXACT ISSUES. They are not out there causing car wrecks, driving uninsured, etc. because they happen to be here illegally. They suffer from and cause social problems at a higher rate because they are paid low wages. You give those strenuous, low-wage jobs to white folks and you see the same thing.

His comment was:

Chances are, a brown-skinned person with an accent IS from a foreign Third World nation and has a good chance of being here illegally.

I suppose he should have used something besides “good chance”. To me that means greater than 50% which I don’t think is true concerning the statement he made. Maybe 10-20% chance.

I don’t know that. It may be true, but I don’t know that.

Who reading this thread doesn’t REGULARLY exceed the speed limit by 3 miles per hour.

Me.

Who comes to a COMPLETE stop at a stop sign?

Me

Essentially traffic violations are a free pass for police to pull people over.

I didn’t know that either. I thought it was to enforce the laws and the generate revenue.

If you don’t want a ticket, follow the rules. If you don’t like the rules, get them changed. If you don’t want to put forth the effort to do that, then quit complaining.

Anyone who wants to actually DO something about this call your congressman (202-224-3121 is the main# on Capitol Hill) and tell them to cosponsor the discharge petition for the SAVE Act. The SAVE Act would require e-verification of immigration status by employers. The discharge petition would force Nancy Pelosi to bring the Act tothe floor to be voted on. She and the Dem leadership are trying to keep the bill locked up in committee (Ironically, the bill’s sponsor is Heath Shuler, a democrat). 184 have signed the discharge petition, it needs only another 32 I think to bring it to the floor.

W…T…F…?

If you’re dark-skinned and have an accent, chances are you’re here illegally? What an insult to the millions of hardworking immigrants who have entered the U.S. through academic and professional excellence and now contribute hugely to the well-being of this nation.

Incredible. Just incredible.

Being an immigrant myself, it’s a particularly sore subject when someone can hop a fence, or into a container and come to the US illegitimately to work, while it took my years of wrestling with the INS to be granted a visa, green card, then citizenship. It’s a big slap in the face when someone can bypass the system.

I’ve had friends and family involved in car accidents with uninsured, unlicensed illegal immigrants. I’ve been rear-ended by a drunk illegal immigrant who promptly sped off, my sister’s been rear ended by a car full of people who tried to drive away afterwards. My friend has been t-boned by an illegal immigrant (and his insurance company almost didn’t pay his claim) who stuck around long enough to say he had no license or insurance.

You’re asking a simple question, and if that question provides probable cause for further action, have a good time.

Actually, they wouldn’t have the right to demand an inspection of the trunk unless they reasonable cause to believe there was contraband or a dead body in there.

Let me ask this rhetorical question to illustrate a point: Would it be OK to stop white men with no probable cause because the make of 99% of serial murders?

I’m going to answer your “rhetorical” question because it doesn’t make the point you think it does.

The answer is “If they’ve committed a traffic infraction, yes.” You stop them, check their drivers license, ask them if they’ve killed anybody recently, ask to look in the trunk if they give a shady answer, and move forward as actions dictate.

If a majority of voters in your area are concerned about serial killers and vote for representatives and laws that advocate going after them, then targeting the demographic that provides the majority of serial killers makes excellent sense.

You’ll miss a few hispanic, asian, or latino killers, but so what? Your goal isn’t to find and identify every single killer, it’s to lower the amount of serial killers driving around with bodies in the trunk.

Once illegals stop being largely hispanic we’ll have to design new methods to target and aprehend them, but this works for now.

We all know that it nearly everyone driving on the road could be pulled over for a traffic violation. Who reading this thread doesn’t REGULARLY exceed the speed limit by 3 miles per hour. Who comes to a COMPLETE stop at a stop sign? Essentially traffic violations are a free pass for police to pull people over.

Let me ask this rhetorical question to illustrate a point: Would it be OK to stop white men with no probable cause because the make of 99% of serial murders?

Agreed, it would be playing the odds, but playing the odds isn’t how our legal system works. It may be how the human brain works, I’ll grant you that, but our legal framework should adhere to the standard that assumes innocence rather than a possibility of being guilty because you belong to a certain race or ethnic group.

Then what do you suggest the police do when they receive a report of 3 bald white men robbing a store? Do they have to look at EVERY group of 3 people, male or female, black or white, long hair or bald? No. They look for 3 bald white men.

My point is that 81% of the illegals are hispanic in origin, so I don’t see a problem with asking hispanics what their immigration status is. Of course, I don’t have a problem with them asking that question of EVERY person they pull over or catch in the act of a crime.

It’s like searching the bags of old women at the airport. The terrorists are males of middle eastern origin, not blue-hairs from Jersey.

Indeed it does. However, once one allegedly commits a criminal offense and the police are called, they have a right to question to alleged perpetrator.

The police can’t question someone for no reason and no one suggests they should. But if they do have probable cause, that “opens the door” for any reasonable questioning.

I want to be fair: Statistically, an illegal driver is a much safer driver than a legal driver. They have to be; they don’t want to get stopped.

But that doesn’t mean they belong on the road.

One more thing: I am aware of the illegal Irish problem in the Northeast. They, too, don’t belong on the road. The illegals from Ireland fly under the radar around here, for obvious reasons: They’re caucasian, they speak English, and Boston loves its Irish. However, I do not endorse their presence here. They’re still breaking the law…

Last time I checked it is the police’s job to investigate illegal activity and illegal immigration is, by it’s very nature, illegal so I don’t have a problem with it.

It’s pretty much becoming a “do as you damn well please” nation (unless of course, you happen to be one of those folks who uses a Christian Bible or Torah as a “crutch” – then you are increasingly less likely to have any rights, as others deem your rights to free speech less important than their rights to do as they damn well please!) Now, THAT sounds pretty jack-boot, to me.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61671

What’s both funny and sad about the outcry over this issue is that if we had a national ID card, it would clearly show citizenship status. The problem, of course, is that those most vocal about the illegal immigration problem are also those most likely to be against the national ID card. When you parse those two facts, it’s very hard to say that race does not play any part.

Personally, I’m not sure there is an answer to this problem. I deeply fear the prospect of “show me your papers” without probable cause of any kind. The traffic stop has become the primary means for the abuse of citizens rights. It started with drugs and is now progressing to illegal immigration. Is it too ridiculous that we might eventually get to the “you’re over your allowable body-mass index” offense?

The irony is that we equate driving with freedom, yet it would appear that the best way to increase the chance of losing your freedom is to to drive.

No, my friend has an Australian accent. Yet somehow that friend was never singled out for having his/her papers checked. That’s my point.