Comments on: New Alpine Coming [not shown]

By: Jordan Tenenbaum

Jordan Tenenbaum — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:18:14 +0000

I will own a Citroën SM one of these days, I will.

By: andy777

andy777 — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:27:38 +0000

I also test drove a Fuego (yes, I was one of the 10). Just goes to show what a messed up young man I was.

By: andy777

andy777 — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:26:15 +0000

A Fiat 131 Super Brava is EXACTLY what I ended up getting, Terry, from an Ann Arbor,Michigan dealer. Sucker ran for 6 years, badly, until I sold it to a poor soul in St.Louis for a few bucks. Outfitted with rectangular Cibies and an Ansa exhaust (of course) I was the stylish yet practical law school student back in the day.

By: ed niedermeyer

ed niedermeyer — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:57:21 +0000

Hmm… maybe I should run across the street and ask my neighbor with the two rusting Fuegos if he’d consider a new Alpine.

Based on the concept photos which are now available over at AM, I’d have to say that I’d be tempted…

By: Terry

Terry — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:58:50 +0000

Wasnt a matter of how easy, just reliability, parts availability, factory support, you know–the usual things that sent them back to where they belong.
What YOU call “fact”, the other 99% of Americans that owned them would call “fantasy”.
And wouldnt you know…I almost bought a FIAT Super Brava(131 Mirafiore) new from the dealer I was working for at the time…

By: FromBrazil

FromBrazil — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:06:03 +0000

Yeah, whatever. My experience with the so-called low-rung Italian car maker is that they’re great. Have loved every single one of them and know from fact they do go on forever. It must hurt quite a bit when in many trustworthy reliability surveys the new so-called Italian low-rung crap, beats the so-called low-rung French and German crap. Not to mention some higher rung German crap, too.

As for weirdness, if we depended on mechanic’s opinion of how easy it is to work on cars, we’d still all be stuck with longitudinally mounted engines (extra space to work on engine), rear axle traction (comprimising any smaller cars livability) and whatever else Henry Ford, or Karl Benz or even Mr. Citroen cooked up over 70 years ago.

By: andy777

andy777 — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:44:37 +0000

As a former owner of, uh, the lower-rung Italian cars, yes, one can say with objective verification that they were crap. Nice-driving and occasionally handsome piles of dog turds, but when the ice was scraped away, yes, crap.

The French OTOH made neat and semi-reliable cars, even for our domestic consumption. I had the unerring sense to purchase a brand new Peugeot 405 Mi16 six weeks before Peugeot USA pulled the plug on its US cars, thus instantly axing about 80% of my new car’s value with 1500 miles on the clock. The thing ran pretty faithfully for 5 years until it was sideswiped into a concrete median by an uninsured and soon escaping Detroit resident in a hurry to make his noon crack appointment. C’est la vie.

By: Terry

Terry — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:18:32 +0000

Agreed, Martin!
My last Citroen experiences were in the late ’70s wrenching on D23s and SMs. My last US car was a ‘79 Mustang Turbo TRX 3-Door. Outside of a ‘82 Maxima, it’s been nothing but Mazdas ever since(helps when you work at a dealership–cheap parts and free labor–ME)
The 1st French car I ever rode in was a Renault Dauphine–some old lady gave me a lift home from 4th grade back in ‘61. The 1st French car I worked on was a Simca back in ‘73. The Citroens were technical marvels of the day, great ride, mammoth 2.3 Four under the hood, a Whirlitzer pipe organ of a hydraulic suspension system. Wet sleeve engines, and general all-around weirdness. I didnt hate them, but still think the French would have done better sticking with pastry and bicycles(I still have a Motobecane road bike, sold the Peugot bike a few years back).

By: Martin Schwoerer

Martin Schwoerer — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:41:25 +0000

Honestly folks, I’m on my fifth Citroen, and have probably driven a million clicks with them. My dad had Peugeots for decades, and had a lot less problems with them than he had with the American cars he tried out — his Chevy II and Plymouth Fury were crap.

Terry, you are surely right about the Fuego et al but why not live in the present time and enjoy whatever the market has to offer? The more the merrier, I say. You take your Detroit iron and I’ll take an Alpine, if they design and build it well, and life will be fine as such.

By: wildcmc

wildcmc — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:51:40 +0000

Well, the good thing for me is that I’m not french Terry, so I am not humiliated that French cars left the US. But you are right that those cars were probably crappy back then. But I always wondered what would have happenned if they would have left those Reanults and Peugeots alone and sold them here with the same equipment as in Europe. I think they would have had a completely difference feedback from the consumer.
Also they styling of the american versions looked horrible.

Anyways…. I doubt they’ll make the same mistake again. and….. Reanult is together with Nissan now, so I am sure they improved their quality even more.

Now, regarding your side note, I wonder how humiliating it must be to have the pride of your country’s products rejected by everybody else in the world. (ford chevy chrysler and so on….

By: Johnster

Johnster — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:41:07 +0000

“Think Mazda MX-5 or even Smart Roadster and you are on the right lines”, said a Renault exec.

Such a car would not be unprecedented for Nissan. It could be sold in the U.S. under the Nissan nameplate as a revival of the 4-cylinder Datsun 2000 and 1600s from the 1960s and as a competitor to the MX-5 and Solstice/Sky.

By: Terry

Terry — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:35:28 +0000

Wild, I dont doubt what youre saying about Peugots and Renaults. But in THIS country, THIS kid had to deal with those cars, not the home Euro models.
Once the Japanese came in and proved you provide economy AND reliability while meeting the host’s country’s automotive regulations, it was all over for the Euro cars here.
Glad your experience with them was positive, many former owners had less pleasant remembrances. There is a huge difference between owning one(or 5), and working on them every day as part of your occupation.

Side note: When the French cars left the US market, I wondered how humiliating it must be to have the pride of your country’s products rejected by another country’s consumers.
20+ years later, it appears the humiliation is not nearly as bad as having your own country’s consumers reject your own products.

By: wildcmc

wildcmc — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:25:38 +0000

Terry wrote:
The memories of wrenching on Renault Fuegos, Citroens, and Peugots are still fresh in my mind all these years later. There are reasons those cars–and FIATS, Alfas, Lancias, MGs, Triumphs, Rover Cars, Austins-arent here any more.
No need to open up that can of worms again.”

Renault cars as well as Peugeots were great cars. The problem with them is that because of US regulations they had to change their original equipment to US equipment which made them a piece of crap. starting with the looks of the car. Renaults were huge in other countries that kept the same original equipment. I invite you to do a search on renault and peugeot fan clubs worldwide.
Renault 12, were simple and strong. Same with the 18 and Fuego. They had revolutionary desing (originals concepts were made in late 70’s) And the Fuego (the euro one)had an awesome handling.
My family had 5 fuegos and none of them with problems. My take was that AMC (company who brought them) put cheap parts in them (to meet the US Regulations thing)

Citroen is making pretty good looking cars these days

Bring the new Renaults and Peugeots back to the US any day!

Fiats, Lancias, and the others you mention… I agree , they probably sucked!

By: offroadinfrontier

offroadinfrontier — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:20:58 +0000

if renault-nissan do manage to bring this to the US, are we talking about a modern 240sx or a smaller, faster 350z replacement?

ah hell, why bother? we aren’t getting it, anyway. the closest thing we have to a “small sports car” is that gm POS parts-bin convertable.

By: Terry

Terry — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:12:09 +0000

# chuckgoolsbee :
February 17th, 2008 at 11:23 am

Indeed quasimodo, we never get any of the cool toys.

Diesels, sports cars, anything remotely “fun” or interesting never lands on our shores. All we get are ginormous trucks and rental fleet quality garbage from the domestics, and overpriced luxo-machines from the imports.

–chuck

Chuck, take a test drive in either a Mazda Miata or Mazdaspeed3, THEN tell me how we never get any of the cool toys.

By: Terry

Terry — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:57:49 +0000

The memories of wrenching on Renault Fuegos, Citroens, and Peugots are still fresh in my mind all these years later. There are reasons those cars–and FIATS, Alfas, Lancias, MGs, Triumphs, Rover Cars, Austins-arent here any more.
No need to open up that can of worms again.

By: chuckgoolsbee

chuckgoolsbee — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:23:03 +0000

Indeed quasimodo, we never get any of the cool toys.

–chuck

By: quasimondo

quasimondo — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:03:17 +0000

I’m sure such rejoicing would be short lived after they announce that they have no plans to bring such a vehicle to the North American market.