My 8th grade english teacher used used to say: “If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest students in the school!”

There is a saying in my country that “the stupid are the happiest people”. And why not they don’t know any better. I think that explains your happy customers.

Am I overly suspcious or am I right in saving money by paying somewhat more initially?

This is becoming less of an issue now that all manufacturers have been cutting back on production. That’s why you see those 1/2 empty lots out there – especially at the domestic lots.

“There’s also some hope of profits in future service and sales, IF the dealer is willing to treat the customer in a manner that builds loyalty.”

The internet has destroyed the concept of customer loyalty to one dealer. More and more customers are soliciting price quotes from multiple dealers and going to the lowest price store. Usually that ends up to be the sleazy dealer that won’t honor the price, and either the customer will cave and buy anyway or walk and go to the next highest price store. I have people tell me all the time that my prices quotes are $1000 too high, only to have them show up anyway when the other dealer turns out to be a dirtbag.

It’s ironic that the most loyal and happiest customers are the ones that pay the highest prices. The chislers that grind for every dime will be back to do it again, but you won’t earn any loyalty from them. Miss the price by $50 and their gone.

I don’t play games in the selling process, though a lot of my customers are still finding the nonsense out there. I expect to be able to make a commissionable gross on a used vehicle, and know that regardless of selling price I am only making a mini on a new vehicle. I really don’t care on a new vehicle whether I sell it for full sticker or give it away, my commission will be the same. I just need the CSI score to get my Hyundai money.

In this market, most dealers are only making money on new vehicles with the manufacturer’s “stair step” programs which give the dealers kickbacks for meeting sales goals. That’s how you can buy “below invoice.” The dealer is getting a few hundred $$ if sales targets are met.

Obviously a dealer can’t sell EVERY vehicle at a loss, but in this economy the point of selling some at a loss is that it frees the dealer from the costs associated with carrying it in inventory. There’s also some hope of profits in future service and sales, IF the dealer is willing to treat the customer in a manner that builds loyalty.

Unfortunately the dealer system in the United States is terribly bloated, to the point that vehicles are being dumped into a market that can’t afford to buy them. So instead of focusing on doing the right things, ALL dealers are now focused on “moving the metal” in order to survive, customer service be damned.

But the main issue here is that the entire way that new vehicles are sold is entirely out-of-date, to the point of being laughable. However, things won’t improve until we get rid of the games…hopefully this will happen through competition, and not through legislation.

Every car buyer wants a great deal, but is it really good for anyone long term if each car the dealer sells brings it one step closer to bankruptcy? At my dealer, if we can’t at least break even on the deal, we don’t take the sale.

Think about it this way: buyers are in the driver’s seat right now, but with the coming C11 of Chrysler and GM, you will see 10,000 dealers close up. Where do you think prices will go once those dealers go and the economy improves?? The remaining dealers will be stronger than ever with much less incentive to discount.

Saturn was essentially a ‘one car company’ for the entire 1990’s. It really wasn’t until the dreaded L-Series came out that Saturn truly became an also-ran despite the lack of models.

What should have gone to Saturn went to Oldsmobile. I still believe that the Alero, Intrigue, Aurora, and even the downright generic Bravada and Silhouette would have all been far more successful as Saturns.

But alas, long-term foresight has never been a strong point for GM. At least not the fellows who have ran the proverbial show into the proverbial ground.

I guess you don’t want to move the dead metal.

I’m sure you’re the guy that comes in wanting to buy the car for $2k below invoice. In that case, no, your money is no good, keep shopping.

Steven Lang: “it’s called Saturn.”

It was called Saturn. Years ago, Saturn was badly compromised when they got saddled with the mediocre Opel Vectra-based L-series and essentially became just another typical GM division (with the same sales and marketing packaging) from that point on.

It’s a shame because if Saturn had been given the attention and backing it deserved on small cars (the original mission), it might now be the one shining star out of GM’s pool of losers.

The problem (and opportunity) is that the overwhelming majority of folks like to ‘get the better deal’. Haggling is all over the place and in recessions it even gets to areas of retailing that usually have static prices.

Everything is negotiable :)

http://www.iqpc.com/News.aspx?id=122707476&IQ=automotive

I love this attitude from car salesmen. Yeah, my cash is no good with you I guess. But I’m sure I’ll find someone who will take it. “What’s the monthly payment?” is the kind of question asked by a truely “uninformed idiot”. Financing is for suckers. Do you think maybe this monthly payment focused attitude has something to do with the current state of our economy? Buy now pay later! I’d think a cash buyer would be a useful thing during a credit crunch. Well, good luck with those car sales! Hope all your marks have high FICO scores!

It’s true, car dealers could care less about you paying cash. We immediately lose interest the second you say cash. We will get you the best rate, but yes we make a commission on selling you the financing.

I want an easy sale just as much as you do. Do your homework, know what the car costs me, know what your car is worth, come in and make an offer. “sell the the car for x, give my y for my trade. can you do that?” makes things so much easier for both of us. I will happily negotiate with someone who took the time to research before they come in. I hate negotiating with uninformed idiots.

Oh, and if your credit it sucks (under 650 now), don’t waltz in looking to refinance $5k negative equity with $0 down. It’s not going to happen anymore. Just stay home and pay off your bad decision.

pleiter: Got a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with Leather, Sunroof, pretty much all the options. Less the $500 fee, it was $3500 and that price included a detail, the auction buyer’s fee, and a new radiator for the 1000 mile drive.

rodster: That may be true… but fear and uncertainty (along with bad negotiating skills) are big factors for a substantial portion of the population.

ohiomax: Nissan is getting very aggressive on several fronts. I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up with the lowest ‘days of inventory’ in a few months.

ctoan: I worry for Subaru. Suzuki may suffer. But they discount like hell. Mitsubishi is experiencing Isuzucide as we speak.

bumpy: Empty pavement means nothing. Really. There’s a Ford dealer near me that’s teetering on C11 whose inventory is thinner than Calista Flockhart. Some folks in my business even rent out nearby ‘back lots’ to give the illusion of movement.

Holzman: The Boston market sucks. Low levels of disposable income and a lot of people who could simply care less about what they drive. It was always one of my worst markets when I traveled the country.

no_slushbox: If a dealer has the choice of making a slim profit or holding on to dead metal in this economy, they’re taking the money.

Airhen: Just bought a Civic hybrid today. It got me over 53 mpg in 75% highway / 25% city driving. All I can say is, “Congrats!”

Schworer: I have similar feelings about 0-60 times.

Durask: With the declines taking place in monthly sales and the scarcity of credit, I would be very surprised. Right now I have dealers tossing low mileage vehicles to the auctions because they can’t afford them anymore on their balance sheets.

Morea: No. The best day to buy is the day when they’re closing the place down. In all seriousness, the last week of the month is often the busiest time of the month.

AG: Bought one last year for $66k. I doubt they cost much more at this point.

I’ll respond to everyone else tomorrow… unless I don’t get responses in which case you’re on your own :)

I would LOVE to go buy a new car right now, and could, except for the trade. I could probably find someone to make it happen but I’m just not going to take a bath that large on my SUV trade. I’m not bad at math, even a $4K loss buys a LOT of gas for it. If I thought any dealer could find a way to “give” $16K for my Commander I would do it. However, those deals would put the “purchase” over the factory sticker, and what bank is going to finance more than sticker right now? NONE.

I’m going to take issue with this. I ventured out into the fringes of civilization the other day and was amazed at how empty the lots of the GM dealers were. I’d swear that the GMC/Pontiac/etc. dealer and the Chevy dealer in the next county were literally half-empty. The Ford and Dodge dealers weren’t so bad off, maybe 1/4 or 1/3 bare asphalt. Toyota and Carmax were maybe a bit light, but nothing to get excited about.