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	<title>Comments on: Michigan Republican Rep Hot For GM &#8211; Chrysler Merger</title>
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		<title>By: 50merc</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-870611</link>
		<dc:creator>50merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-870611</guid>
		<description>Steven Lang: &quot;It’s a double edged sword folks…&quot;

Or as my Dad would say, &quot;They are between a rock and a hard place.&quot;  In this case, &quot;they&quot; are the politicians. Do they (a) offend voters by &quot;heartlessly&quot; refusing to aid major employers, or do they (b) waste billions of taxpayer money on non-viable private businesses.

It&#039;s not surprising that politicians would decide to be &quot;compassionate&quot; by choosing option (b). When you stop to think about it, that&#039;s the fundamental problem with democracy--that people will unwisely use government to give themselves goodies. And it&#039;s why we have entitlement train wrecks not far ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steven Lang: &#8220;It’s a double edged sword folks…&#8221;</p>
<p>Or as my Dad would say, &#8220;They are between a rock and a hard place.&#8221;  In this case, &#8220;they&#8221; are the politicians. Do they (a) offend voters by &#8220;heartlessly&#8221; refusing to aid major employers, or do they (b) waste billions of taxpayer money on non-viable private businesses.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not surprising that politicians would decide to be &#8220;compassionate&#8221; by choosing option (b). When you stop to think about it, that&#8217;s the fundamental problem with democracy&#8211;that people will unwisely use government to give themselves goodies. And it&#8217;s why we have entitlement train wrecks not far ahead.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Lang</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-870281</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Lang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-870281</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a double edged sword folks...

If these companies go down in flames you&#039;ll have millions without jobs and tens of billions in unfunded liabilities... which will be picked up by the Fed&#039;s (and eventually our grandkids) whether we like it or not.

If Chrysler merges with GM, who knows. As an industry, I would think it could represent a mind numbingly stupid move unless the new Goliath has the opportunity to undue the strings of legal issues and fiefdom interests that effectively keep it gagged. 

A break-up of both automakers would be a far more intelligent scenario. But then again, it also depends on how the surgery goes. I believe that by doing this, getting rid of the legal issues, and emasculating the fiefdoms within the castle walls (especially upper management), would do wonders for the Big 3. 

But that would take the richest and most powerful folks in this country... and they collectively have too much interest in having things go the other way at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->It&#8217;s a double edged sword folks&#8230;</p>
<p>If these companies go down in flames you&#8217;ll have millions without jobs and tens of billions in unfunded liabilities&#8230; which will be picked up by the Fed&#8217;s (and eventually our grandkids) whether we like it or not.</p>
<p>If Chrysler merges with GM, who knows. As an industry, I would think it could represent a mind numbingly stupid move unless the new Goliath has the opportunity to undue the strings of legal issues and fiefdom interests that effectively keep it gagged. </p>
<p>A break-up of both automakers would be a far more intelligent scenario. But then again, it also depends on how the surgery goes. I believe that by doing this, getting rid of the legal issues, and emasculating the fiefdoms within the castle walls (especially upper management), would do wonders for the Big 3. </p>
<p>But that would take the richest and most powerful folks in this country&#8230; and they collectively have too much interest in having things go the other way at this point.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: argentla</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869961</link>
		<dc:creator>argentla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869961</guid>
		<description>If the merger happens, Chrysler will &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; cease to exist. The merger --&gt; bailout --&gt; C11 theory is the only one that doesn&#039;t smack of hallucinogens, and if that theory proves true, all of Chrysler&#039;s employees and dealers will be on the chopping block. 

It&#039;s not a matter of saving jobs. It&#039;s a matter of who pays for Wagoner and Nardelli&#039;s life of leisure and cushy retirement package.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->If the merger happens, Chrysler will <i>still</i> cease to exist. The merger &#8211;&gt; bailout &#8211;&gt; C11 theory is the only one that doesn&#8217;t smack of hallucinogens, and if that theory proves true, all of Chrysler&#8217;s employees and dealers will be on the chopping block. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a matter of saving jobs. It&#8217;s a matter of who pays for Wagoner and Nardelli&#8217;s life of leisure and cushy retirement package.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: geeber</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869701</link>
		<dc:creator>geeber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869701</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;john Horner: Be afraid, very afraid, of politicians who view sending people off to war and/or out of their jobs as one of those unfortunate “hard decisions” they are just forced to make. &lt;/i&gt;

The elected official that is the subject of this post is advocating a merger to SAVE jobs. He thinks that this will avoid job losses. Granted, he is wrong, but he isn&#039;t trying to put anyone out of work, or saying to Chrysler employees, &quot;Tough luck, better have your resumes updated.&quot;

The only problem is that Chrysler and its associated jobs are going away no matter what, but it won&#039;t be this Congressman who makes that ultimate decision.

&lt;i&gt;John Horner: We are seeing a government backed wave of big company mergers and further concentration of power which once would have been unthinkable … and with Republicans leading the charge.&lt;/i&gt;

Congress is controlled by the Democrats, and they certainly haven&#039;t been saying &quot;no.&quot; Rep. Pelosi and company sure aren&#039;t interested in stopping the charge...if anything, they are making sure that their constituencies get in on the fun, too. It was some Congressional REPUBLICANS and a few conservative Democrats who initially stopped the original bank bailout plan, and they were roundly criticized by just about everyone, even though they were reacting to negative feedback from voters. 

Whether the merger of GM and Chrysler succeed or not should be left up to the market. Except that the presidential candidates have been falling all over themselves to shovel as much taxpayer money to Detroit as possible to keep these companies afloat, and it has been Senator Obama leading &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; particular charge. 

I watched his nomination acceptance speech, and he said that he wants to help &quot;Detroit retool to make fuel-efficient cars for the 21st century.&quot; 

Those of us who can translate campaign-speak realized that this meant, &quot;I&#039;ll support as much taxpayer-funded largesse as possible to keep UAW members employed, as the union is a big contributor to my campaign.&quot; 

Never mind, of course, that if people wanted to save GM, Ford and Chrysler, they could visit their local dealer and purchase a brand-new vehicle at sticker price, instead of buying a Toyota, Honda, etc. Of course, buyers of Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans - not to mention the workers employed in the American-based operations that make those vehicles - can&#039;t funnel money to Senator Obama&#039;s campaign via the UAW, or turn out the volunteers on election day. So he isn&#039;t too concerned about them. 

As for the mergers concentrating power - yes, among the financial sector, it is troubling. 

But among the automotive sector, GM and Chrysler are &quot;big&quot; in name only. They key isn&#039;t size, it&#039;s market power, and at this point, neither one has much of that left. Chrysler is basically a supplier to rental car companies. It is worthless. GM is hanging on by a thread. 

I&#039;m still trying to figure out exactly what power will be concentrated with a merged GM and Chrysler. If anything, they will compound each others&#039; weaknesses. 

This merger will have about as much effect on the automobile market - and result in as much monopoly power by the merged company - as the merger of Studebaker and Packard did in 1954. Unless, of course, the next president decides to &quot;help&quot; the merged company in various ways involving more taxpayer-funded largesse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>john Horner: Be afraid, very afraid, of politicians who view sending people off to war and/or out of their jobs as one of those unfortunate “hard decisions” they are just forced to make. </i></p>
<p>The elected official that is the subject of this post is advocating a merger to SAVE jobs. He thinks that this will avoid job losses. Granted, he is wrong, but he isn&#8217;t trying to put anyone out of work, or saying to Chrysler employees, &#8220;Tough luck, better have your resumes updated.&#8221;</p>
<p>The only problem is that Chrysler and its associated jobs are going away no matter what, but it won&#8217;t be this Congressman who makes that ultimate decision.</p>
<p><i>John Horner: We are seeing a government backed wave of big company mergers and further concentration of power which once would have been unthinkable … and with Republicans leading the charge.</i></p>
<p>Congress is controlled by the Democrats, and they certainly haven&#8217;t been saying &#8220;no.&#8221; Rep. Pelosi and company sure aren&#8217;t interested in stopping the charge&#8230;if anything, they are making sure that their constituencies get in on the fun, too. It was some Congressional REPUBLICANS and a few conservative Democrats who initially stopped the original bank bailout plan, and they were roundly criticized by just about everyone, even though they were reacting to negative feedback from voters. </p>
<p>Whether the merger of GM and Chrysler succeed or not should be left up to the market. Except that the presidential candidates have been falling all over themselves to shovel as much taxpayer money to Detroit as possible to keep these companies afloat, and it has been Senator Obama leading <i>that</i> particular charge. </p>
<p>I watched his nomination acceptance speech, and he said that he wants to help &#8220;Detroit retool to make fuel-efficient cars for the 21st century.&#8221; </p>
<p>Those of us who can translate campaign-speak realized that this meant, &#8220;I&#8217;ll support as much taxpayer-funded largesse as possible to keep UAW members employed, as the union is a big contributor to my campaign.&#8221; </p>
<p>Never mind, of course, that if people wanted to save GM, Ford and Chrysler, they could visit their local dealer and purchase a brand-new vehicle at sticker price, instead of buying a Toyota, Honda, etc. Of course, buyers of Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans &#8211; not to mention the workers employed in the American-based operations that make those vehicles &#8211; can&#8217;t funnel money to Senator Obama&#8217;s campaign via the UAW, or turn out the volunteers on election day. So he isn&#8217;t too concerned about them. </p>
<p>As for the mergers concentrating power &#8211; yes, among the financial sector, it is troubling. </p>
<p>But among the automotive sector, GM and Chrysler are &#8220;big&#8221; in name only. They key isn&#8217;t size, it&#8217;s market power, and at this point, neither one has much of that left. Chrysler is basically a supplier to rental car companies. It is worthless. GM is hanging on by a thread. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying to figure out exactly what power will be concentrated with a merged GM and Chrysler. If anything, they will compound each others&#8217; weaknesses. </p>
<p>This merger will have about as much effect on the automobile market &#8211; and result in as much monopoly power by the merged company &#8211; as the merger of Studebaker and Packard did in 1954. Unless, of course, the next president decides to &#8220;help&#8221; the merged company in various ways involving more taxpayer-funded largesse.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jkross22</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869551</link>
		<dc:creator>jkross22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869551</guid>
		<description>Yet another example of the sellout of the American people by people entrusted to watch out for them.

Vote libertarian (my friends).  If nothing else, it will begin to scare both Dems and Reps, which at this point, needs to occur.  They&#039;re just a little too comfortable at the taxpayer teet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yet another example of the sellout of the American people by people entrusted to watch out for them.</p>
<p>Vote libertarian (my friends).  If nothing else, it will begin to scare both Dems and Reps, which at this point, needs to occur.  They&#8217;re just a little too comfortable at the taxpayer teet.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Horner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869481</link>
		<dc:creator>John Horner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869481</guid>
		<description>Thaddeus McCotter and King Henry Paulson are most certainly Republicans though.  McCotter is Chairman of the House Republican Policy committee.  Yet here he is, angling for government funding of corporate merger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thaddeus McCotter and King Henry Paulson are most certainly Republicans though.  McCotter is Chairman of the House Republican Policy committee.  Yet here he is, angling for government funding of corporate merger.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: mikey610 (of GM)</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869371</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey610 (of GM)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869371</guid>
		<description>Um, both MI Senators, Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, are Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Um, both MI Senators, Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, are Democrats.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: OldandSlow</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869351</link>
		<dc:creator>OldandSlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869351</guid>
		<description>Carl Levin is probably in the pocket of JP Morgan Chase - which are owed billions by Cerberus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Carl Levin is probably in the pocket of JP Morgan Chase &#8211; which are owed billions by Cerberus.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: ihatetrees</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869241</link>
		<dc:creator>ihatetrees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869241</guid>
		<description>With Republicans like this, why NOT vote for the other side? Compromise your principles often enough and you have none left. 

Hell, why don&#039;t Michigan GOP office holders vie for NEA votes by trying to outlaw private schools?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->With Republicans like this, why NOT vote for the other side? Compromise your principles often enough and you have none left. </p>
<p>Hell, why don&#8217;t Michigan GOP office holders vie for NEA votes by trying to outlaw private schools?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: MrDot</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869151</link>
		<dc:creator>MrDot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869151</guid>
		<description>Well duh.  A Michigan politician who isn&#039;t interested in propping up the auto industry is one who isn&#039;t interested in remaining in office.

Everyone loves free markets until it&#039;s their turn to take the hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well duh.  A Michigan politician who isn&#8217;t interested in propping up the auto industry is one who isn&#8217;t interested in remaining in office.</p>
<p>Everyone loves free markets until it&#8217;s their turn to take the hit.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Horner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869111</link>
		<dc:creator>John Horner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869111</guid>
		<description>Be afraid, very afraid, of politicians who view sending people off to war and/or out of their jobs as one of those unfortunate &quot;hard decisions&quot; they are just forced to make.   These decisions are so hard to come to, a man really needs to take that lobbyist provided junket to Bermuda ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Be afraid, very afraid, of politicians who view sending people off to war and/or out of their jobs as one of those unfortunate &#8220;hard decisions&#8221; they are just forced to make.   These decisions are so hard to come to, a man really needs to take that lobbyist provided junket to Bermuda &#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Dr Lemming</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869061</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869061</guid>
		<description>Yup, the argument for greater concentrations of power is unsettling.  Bigger isn&#039;t always better.  GM is an excellent case study of that.

If politicians are going to advocate for a merger how will that square with their professed commitment to protecting jobs as GM takes out its meat axe on Chrysler?  That will be a really interesting needle to thread if the government considers ways to enable the merger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yup, the argument for greater concentrations of power is unsettling.  Bigger isn&#8217;t always better.  GM is an excellent case study of that.</p>
<p>If politicians are going to advocate for a merger how will that square with their professed commitment to protecting jobs as GM takes out its meat axe on Chrysler?  That will be a really interesting needle to thread if the government considers ways to enable the merger.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: John Horner</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-869011</link>
		<dc:creator>John Horner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-869011</guid>
		<description>One really spooky thing in this upheaval is how many government types are pushing for further concentration of power in fewer and fewer corporate players.  Treasury Secretary Paulson is saying that the feds will be picking and choosing which banks to invest in based on their willingness to buy up and shut down competing institutions.   Spoken like the Goldman Sachs money-bags he really is.

&quot;As the Treasury embarks on its unprecedented recapitalization, it is becoming clear that the government wants not only to stabilize the industry, but also to reshape it. Two senior officials said the selection criteria would include banks that need more capital to finance acquisitions.&quot;

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/business/21plan.html

We are seeing a government backed wave of big company mergers and further concentration of power which once would have been unthinkable ... and with Republicans leading the charge.  But fear not, they are doing it out of abiding regard and concern for the &quot;Joes&quot; of the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->One really spooky thing in this upheaval is how many government types are pushing for further concentration of power in fewer and fewer corporate players.  Treasury Secretary Paulson is saying that the feds will be picking and choosing which banks to invest in based on their willingness to buy up and shut down competing institutions.   Spoken like the Goldman Sachs money-bags he really is.</p>
<p>&#8220;As the Treasury embarks on its unprecedented recapitalization, it is becoming clear that the government wants not only to stabilize the industry, but also to reshape it. Two senior officials said the selection criteria would include banks that need more capital to finance acquisitions.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/business/21plan.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/business/21plan.html</a></p>
<p>We are seeing a government backed wave of big company mergers and further concentration of power which once would have been unthinkable &#8230; and with Republicans leading the charge.  But fear not, they are doing it out of abiding regard and concern for the &#8220;Joes&#8221; of the country.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: billc83</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-868951</link>
		<dc:creator>billc83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-868951</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re thinking of the infamous Phineas McCotter who was a Colonel for the Confederacy during the Civil War.*

But yes, Thaddeus seems to be quite an antiquated name.  Like Betty.  And Dolly.  And Edsel.  Don&#039;t see to many of them around anymore.

*Above comment written in jest.  I&#039;m not aware of any Phineas McCotter to have fought in the Civil War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I think you&#8217;re thinking of the infamous Phineas McCotter who was a Colonel for the Confederacy during the Civil War.*</p>
<p>But yes, Thaddeus seems to be quite an antiquated name.  Like Betty.  And Dolly.  And Edsel.  Don&#8217;t see to many of them around anymore.</p>
<p>*Above comment written in jest.  I&#8217;m not aware of any Phineas McCotter to have fought in the Civil War.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: NickR</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/michigan-republican-rep-hot-for-gm-chrysler-merger/comment-page-1/#comment-868911</link>
		<dc:creator>NickR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=117211#comment-868911</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Thaddeus McCotter&lt;/em&gt;?  Didn&#039;t he fight in the Civil War?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>Thaddeus McCotter</em>?  Didn&#8217;t he fight in the Civil War?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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