I have a ‘89 240 Estate that on my way home from a date last night hit 268,000. Even better, she likes my car. I think they’re both keepers!

I have considered getting an old series II landy and putting in a crate diesel, but I wonder about what difficulties I might run into later. Those trucks last forever, and are worth it for the nostalgia. The Defenders are simply overpriced, as a totally clapped out one still costs north of 20k.

“The thinking back then: if a car model made money and customers kept coming back for new ones, keep making the same thing. Only do it a little better every time. Improving the design, making the parts more durable and maintaining the language of diagnosis and repair kept more of these vehicles on the road past the average life expectancy of their rivals.”

Sadly, this was exactly Henry Ford’s line of thought with the original Model T and the reason the Ford Motor Company was overtaken by General Motors as the largest US automobile manufacturer. Unlike GM, Ford reasoned that people would keep coming back to buy a steadily improved and engineered (but similiar looking) product. GM, OTOH, went with the annual model changeover, basing new sales primarily on style. GM’s method of business won, and although Ford eventually caught on (mainly due to son Edsel’s foresight, whom Henry eventually browbeat to death), the damage was done and FMC never came close to overtaking GM.

This was actually the failing of Chrysler Corporation for years. “Extra care in engineering” was their slogan and, although true, the well-engineered (but poorly constructed) Chrysler products would never come close to selling as well as their GM and Ford rivals.

In fact, my choice for a ‘lifer’ would be the anvil-solid sixties’ Plymouth Valiant/Dodge Dart with a slant-six engine and Torqueflite transmission. Mechanics of the era swore by them and, while the bodies might fall apart, even a minimally maintained drivetrain would last forever.

I’m trying it the other way, as I have a Scion xB I fully intend to drive until the day I hand it over to my as-yet-unborn child.

I’m guessing it’s a mix of a well-built product and a devotion to taking care of the things that take care of you. I just heard about a 200K xB, only four years old, so I have reason to count on the well-built product part. And if I’m half as diligent as the car is, the two of us shouldn’t have any problem at all.

I’m going to want a mention in an article in about 30 years, however. :)

Take all the usual reliability of a 240, and subtract the Bosch FI issues, FTW.

Bought it 2 years and 25,000 miles ago for a cool grand. I don’t think you can buy tires for a new Benz for a grand.

Part of the calculus for doing the lifer thing is whether or not you are able and willing to do your own repairs, if the basic vehicle is a sturdy design and if the long term parts support is there. If the ‘93 240 needs a tranny at some point I will probably put one in. If, however, this were a 1993 Chevy Corsica then I would be loath to put a high dollar repair into it.

http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1294268&show_all=1

It seems that no matter the time of year, I always have at least one ‘classic’ Volvo on the driveway.

So, while I may not put a million miles on it (since it only gets driven once a week), it will probably be w/me for the long-haul.

BTW: I bet a lot of SUV and large truck owners are feeling the “lifer” vibe right now. It’s amazing how residual value can make a person start thinking correctly…

The only car I ever bought brand new was a 1977 RWD Ford Escort 1300 L, and I kept it for fifteen years. It was about as simple as a car could be: no electronics, no fuel injection, no pollution control, and it never gave trouble. I’d drive it 1000 miles from Windhoek to Cape Town without checking the oil and water; it was that reliable. The only reason I sold it was, the second time it got stolen, the thieves messed it up so badly it wasn’t worth fixing. I sold it to a panel beater who paid me MORE than my asking price (he said I didn’t know the true value and he didn’t want to cheat me.)

Then I took over my sister’s 1981 Opel Kadett 1300 FWD and drove that for fifteen years. At one point it overheated when a welsh plug rusted through and the water leaked out. A back yard mechanic said it had a reputation for not being worth reconditioning, but I had it rebored and new rings put in and it lasted another five years but became mechanically unsound at the age of about 20. At its last breakdown my mechanic told me. “I never want to see this car again.” I guess there comes a point where fixing the car is as unrewarding as polishing a turd.

My current car is a 1984 Ford Sierra 1600 which I bought dirt cheap. It’s had a new clutch and the head skimmed after blowing a gasket, but it’s deteriorating fast and not worth keeping for much longer. I can do simple maintenance, but anything more than topping up oil and water I have to take it to a garage,

Keeping cars a long time is only a proposition for people who don’t mind what others think of them, or can’t afford to keep up with the Joneses. Both factors apply to me.

I have an anonymous minivan now. It’s no joyride but it starts every morning.

Sure, I could sell it for a grand, but I’m certainly willing to pay for a $2k+ engine rebuild to keep her around.

The question is, when someone is depending on the car, can you put up with that? My Saab nearly stranded my wife and infant son when the transmission went into limp mode (it did this three times, probably caused by a bad sensor, but still). The repair bills, though lower than the yearly sum of payments on a new car, are unpredictable.

Again, if I wasn’t working ten-plus hour days and I didn’t have very young children, I’d be more tolerant and would certainly have more time to wrench. But I don’t, and if the Saab throws one more major repair, it’s getting fixed, put up for sale and I’m signing up for low-rate financing on something that won’t give me grief.

The Mazda3 wagon, it’ll get replaced someday…probably in 4 years when my little brother turns 16 (big age gap).

With modern cars, maintenance costs can get frighteningly close to replacement costs. Sure, you can do it yourself. But that requires TIME and ENERGY and PASSION for the troubleshooting process. Most people don’t have that. And dealers and mechanics are VERY expensive and NOT NECESSARILY accurate in their assessments. Thus costing you more time and money.

No, the days of being a lifer are over. The economics just aren’t there.

Seven years and 130,000 miles later and I realize I’m in it for the long haul. The drivetrain is still as stout as the day I brought it home. The ‘lanche tows, hauls, and yanks stuck cars out of the snow without complaint. It even does duty as an ice racer when Lake Huron starts to freeze and the local SCCA club heads out on to the ice.

My only cause for concern is a rash of burned out bulbs that is slowly spreading through the interior. I can live without illuminated door lock buttons, but a radio missing the light from half its buttons has all the charm of a pretty girl whose smile is missing a front tooth. I hope this isn’t indicitive of future electrical problems.

Even the body-on-frame construction can’t outlast Michigan’s obsession with salting the roads like movie theatre popcorn. Eventually the truck will rot out from under me. But in the meantime, I figure the trucks good for at least another 130K, and I hope a lot more.

At work, there are the usual newer cars. One car stands out, though. A late 80’s/early 90’s Metro. It’s in rough shape. At one point, the guy’s hood must have popped open because I saw it in the lot with a busted windshield and the hood in the trunk! He drove it like that for a few month, cracked glass and nothing to cover the engine bay. One day, he car finally showed up with a new-to-him red hood (on a blue car).

I admire this guy. The pressure he must feel every day, when he pulls in and sees much nicer and much newer cars around him. It’s sooo much easier to go out and buy a nicer car rather than stick with it. The guy’s job pays well for sure, yet he’s made the decision to suck it up and save his money.

I applaud his self-control.

Someone here mentioned seeing lots of still-running late ’70s T-Birds around. I’ve noticed this in NH, too — not as many over the past two or three years, but every one I do see seems to be a daily driver. I’ve also noticed many mint examples of a Lincoln Town Car or Mark V. It seems to me that Ford in fact made a few very durable vehicles at the height of the malaise era.

When I grew up, my childhood friends parents were Ford-people. They only drove different kinds of slighlty used Fords, and they always had a couple of wrecks for spair parts in the backyard. I asked him once why, and he said that it was easy for him, as they were built up more or less the same way. Seen one, you have seen them all. Common parts, platforms configured the same way, and so on. And they were common, and they were cheap, and they were easy to repair and mend with for a DIY mechanic.

My uncle is an Audi-man. Since the late 60’s and the first generation Audi 100, that brand and model is the only car he has had. Every three years, he leases the newest verison of that car, up until the latest Audi A6.

I don’t see people like that anymore. When I grew up, in Sweden, there was the Ford man, the Volvo family, the Volkswagen man, The Citroen-freak, and so on. Every now and then, you could see someone that was into Porsche or Jaguar or Mercedes. You not only bought a car, you bought a brand, and it was for life. The wars at school between Saab and Volvo families was notorious, as it was common cars and so disparetely configured. A FWD Saab-owner wouldn’t touch a RWD Volvo car with a ten-foot pole.

Now, it seems, a car has only a window of opportunity at 3 months tops. The car sells for three months, and if it hasn’t picked up a following, it never will. Ford Flex is an example of that. Whatever is new and hip sells the best, and in three months, something else will be even newer and hipper.

The qustion of today could be, Is brand loyalty dead? Who keeps a new car nowadays for life?

My take is that a lifer should not only be robust and easy to service, but should also have acceptable fuel economy, and be pleasant to drive.

That’s why I sold my ‘64 P1800 Volvo after a few years of fun mixed with misery: it was a pig to drive, and neither fast nor easy on the fuel. That’s why I would also not consider a 2CV Citroen to be a lifer: they’re pleasant to drive in many situations, but altogether too damn slow.

From a European point of view, here are some lifers I could live with (and as a matter of fact, I have some friends who do).

- Mercedes 190 (smooth, compact, traditional Mercedes quality)

- Mercedes W124 (P Niedermayer wrote about this one…)

- VW Golf MK2 (don’t rust, good for 300k miles, can be extremely parsimonious. Tens of thousands are still running here in Germany)

- Citroen DS (if you’ve tackled the rust and have a good mechanic who has fixed the hydropneumatics, these are beautiful cars that drive like a dream and don’t let you down)

- Citroen Xantia (a surprisingly reliable, economical, comfortable car)

- Ford Transit (hundred of thousands of Turks know what’s good).

- Volvo 240 and 940 (a bit rustic to drive, but mechanically unburstable).