It’s the perception that domestics cars are pieces of shit that still haunts them, even after models were retired, new power trains introduced and mass marketing attempts to convince otherwise.

In the end the market decides.

If I looked at LCD HI def tv’s that way. I would buy one brand all the time. I don’t. I shop for the best deal on a few different brands.

And Honda does almost all of it on the back of 2 products: the Civic and Accord, which last time I looked were 2 of the top 3 selling vehicles in the US.

Wow.

I pose the same question as NoSubstitute. “Is THIS the competition that will wipe the floor with 2.8?”

If the chart had included trends – i.e. who goes up, what’s coming down, and volume accumulation+/-, then you’d have some more info to go on.

In addition, if the chart showed margin realized per vehicle, you’d see that the competition is already wiping the floor with the 2.8.
The fact that customers are rethinking the car equation is hurting most manufacturers – but some have thicker skin.

An indication: in the UK air pollution from cars has dropped by more than 3%, due to people downsizing, using their cars less and moving to other modes of transportation.
Which means that all growth projections car manufacturers were going by are out the window — that creates an across-the-board kneecapping.

If nobody’s buying trucks now, what makes you think they’ll start buying if a Detroit company goes under?

I wonder if Toyota had that in mind as a backup purpose for those Tundra production lines when they made the decision to go forward. If gas stays cheap, then sell lots of profitable trucks. Or if gas gets expensive, use that capacity to grab the fallen GM/Ford/Chrysler’s market share.

I pose the same question as NoSubstitute. “Is THIS the competition that will wipe the floor with 2.8?”

Speaking of a Toyota collapse is premature, but it’s also clear that their being tempted to “diversify” is hurting them. With their accumulated warchest there’s no threat to the company – but I’m pretty certain they wish they’d not opened those Tundra factories. They need years of steady profit to recoup that investment, and now that profit is not so certain.

Toyota will collapse just as quickly as GM does if everyone stops buying trucks.

If the light-truck market disappeared tomorrow Toyota would survive. It would struggle for a while but between their cash horde, technological bag o’ tricks and dominant share they would survive.

Toyota won’t collapse just as quickly as GM if trucks tank further. Look again at the numbers. Then look at the profits (or lack of in GM’s case).

Second (after spending considerable time in each) : these are the cars that Detroit couldn’t beat?

They can usually hang Toyhondaissan on iniital quality.

Its the $1-2k that has been shaved in places that you don’t see that bites you in the rear. The plastic torque converter in my Jeep for example.

oops, sorry FW. I was looking at 2007 numbers. Careless google searching. Thanks for the clarification.

Yes it would. If you have them, I’ll be happy to make the adjustment.

Added above.

Apparently GM’s 22.1% figure is the lowest ever. Isn’t that still higher than the 19% that’s been thrown around? Or was the 19% for cars only?

GM’s market share was 19.2% in May. These numbers are for June.

I didn’t realize Toyota had a bigger market share in cars than GM.

Toyota has been flooding the rental fleets here for sure. I even saw a Prius “Discount Cab.”

So, if it does happen that GM files, who does the loss benefit and in what order?

Made in America does have clout. Somewhere…

Actually, I’ve already found myself doing that in the last couple months.

And by the chart above, they clearly don’t deserve the implied recognition, not even if qualified by the name “Detroit” or the word “domestic.” I think I’ll just adopt the acronym GFC and maybe not even capitalize it.