Even more interestingly, the top-rated pickup truck and large car are built at the very plant (Oshawa) that GM is going to close.

That’s strategy!

Nope, I don’t know how to measure that reliably either… Most of those vehicles are no longer dealer maintained. Guess we’d have to go around to the shops and talk to the mechanics.

No, it’s done because JD Power makes a lot of money selling its data to manufacturers, which then use the IQS to measure how their cars are managing fresh out of the factory.

JD Power gives a fraction of its information to the public in order to stimulate enough public interest and credibility so that the manufacturers continue to subscribe to their services.

I would like to see how vehicles have been after five years as that would tell me more about how well built the are.

Consumer Reports and True Delta will tell you that.

I’m guessing that JD Power offers 90-day and 3-year surveys because both of those fall within typical manufacturer warranty periods. The manufacturers aren’t necessarily going to pay for data for the fifth year, when they don’t provide any warranty coverage for that time period.

I would like to see how vehicles have been after five years as that would tell me more about how well built the are.

Not so, at all. Consumers Reports still plays a very important role in providing data on long term reliability. And unlike all other “quality measurers” they have no immediate requirement for earned income, in the form of fees.

As I have oft repeated, CR’s “red dot/black dot” presentation very closely parallels our experiences on the shop floor. Don’t count CR out, you do so at your peril. Actually, I can see no real reason for re-inventing the wheel in the first place.

BTW, that “time warp on wheels” even with today’s power plant is still infinitely more efficient than most of the formerly-trendy SUV POSes on the road (and handles 100 times better).

Which would be great…if anyone actually bought large cars anymore.

They score better as they age, while the newer tin can designs suffer electrical glitches, expensive “strut” repairs, etc. Try pricing a four wheel strut replacement on an Avalon vs. buying four new shocks on a Panther.

The money spent on replacing an Avalon’s parts are well-spent compared to any cash spent on that time warp on wheels. I’d rather EAT the money.

The Crown Vic and Grand Marquis are the highest of all large cars. They score better as they age, while the newer tin can designs suffer electrical glitches, expensive “strut” repairs, etc. Try pricing a four wheel strut replacement on an Avalon vs. buying four new shocks on a Panther.

90 day ratings is just done for marketing purposes.

That shocked me. I drive both fairly regularly (although try to select the Crown Vic / Grand Marquis whenever I can). I wouldn’t even compare the two. If you want your car to overheat and boil five times while crossing Death Valley, by all means, choose the Pontiac. I drove Crown Vic / Grand Marquis is so many different places, never a single issue. I have no idea what they judge in JD IQS, but clearly not the ability to get you from point A to point B.

As a car journalist, I’m constantly asking total strangers what they think about their car. No one has EVER said “This is such a piece of shit.” Why would they? It would make them appear stupid for buying it.

This is especially true during the first 90 days of ownership. It’s only after a year or so, when the blush is off the rose, that he or she would be willing to admit that they made a mistake. And probably not even then. And certainly not to someone like J.D. Power, who’s recording their opinions for posterity. OK, profit.

As MK has said before, there are LOTS of problems with customer surveys of this nature. Only a scientific measure of objective data like, say, warranty claims, can be viewed as reliable data. And not even then.

TrueDelta is the only organization whose customer data is worthy of TTAC readers’ full consideration. We are working hard to restore our links to their site.

“Each year, tens of thousands of registered new-vehicle owners respond to J.D. Power and Associates surveys and report on the quality of their new vehicles during the initial 90 days of ownership.”

Who buys Chevys? Overwhelmingly, people who owned Chevys. I want to see this survey only after it’s adjusted for expectations. What would a Toyota owner think about that Chevy?

I used to own Volvos. I was supremely satisfied with them, I felt they were very reliable and of very high quality. However, after buying 4 Toyotas, I am not at all likely to purchase another Volvo. They’re not junk but I think I know how much better a car can be. Before the Volvos, I thought my Chevys were good cars.

I’ve seen enough glowing customer writeups about Cheys which also listed problems that I would no longer tolerate, to understand that a subjective “satisfaction” survey isn’t likely to tell the whole story.

5 = top 10%
4 = 60 to 90
3 = 30 to 60
2 = below 30

Essentially, it’s harder to get a 5 than I expected, but easier to get a 3 or 4. And the 2 is no wider a range than a 3 or 4, so they might as well have made this a four-dot scale and been done with it.

The biggest problem, though, remains. These are percentile scores, so we haven’t a clue what absolute problem rates they represent. Given how makes bunch near the average, there could be very little difference between a 3 and a 4 on the “make” ratings.

For models, who knows…

5 dots:
companies or models scoring in the top 10 percent of all companies in the segment can also receive five Power Circles
4 dots:
Companies or models scoring in the next 30 percent of all companies in the segment receive a rating of 4 Power Circles
3 dots:
Companies or models scoring in the next 30 percent of all companies in the segment receive a rating of 3 Power Circles [...] with 10 percent of companies or models rating “about average” receiving a numerical score above the survey average and 20 percent of companies or models rating “about average” receiving a numerical score below the survey average

It’s all right here:
http://www.jdpower.com/ratings-guide

As far as I know, they’ve never even made it clear what each dot represents in terms of an actual score.

How far above and below the average does a three dot extend? How much better than average does a car need to earn a five?

It’s not really relevant which models are the winners unless you think of this as a game. If you just want to know which cars aren’t going to be troublesome, a number of alternatives will be close enough to each winner that they’re essentially equivalent for anyone buying just one car.

The most useful information: which cars are the most troublesome. And that’s exactly what they won’t tell us.

The five stars went to the Pontiac Grand Prix. The Mercury Grand Marquis got four.

Nobody gets one star, by the way, it’s not on the scale. Every kid gets at least a “D” (two stars). Nobody flunks out of JD Power.

And Ford Ranger!!!

The five star winners are: Civic, Elantra, Corolla, Prius, CR-V, Escape, PT Cruiser, RAV4, Mercedes CLK, Miata, Infiniti EX, Infiniti G-series, Grand Prix, Sequoia, Silverado, Avalanche, Tundra, Lexus LS, Navigator, Infiniti QX56, Malibu, Fusion, Galant, Durango, Trailblazer, Santa Fe, 4Runner, Highlander, Dakota, Ranger, Infiniti M-class, Mercedes E-class, Lexus RX, Lexus GX470, Cayenne, Honda Fit, Kia Rio, Nissan Quest, Chevy Express van, Ford E-Series van.

If you take this at face value, the results:

-When it comes to cars, Infiniti is the new Lexus

-Ford is really improving. Really.

-There may be something to the Malibu, after all; it actually beat the Accord and the Camry

-There may be hope for Dodge in its truck line, assuming anybody still wants a truck

-The best Porsche is (gasp!) an SUV

-Americans still know how to build a truck and a van.

Not that I take everything at face value, but it is what it is.

I noticed: Chevrolet Malibu gets 5 stars. That’s great news for Chevy.

BUT: Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6 get only 3 stars.
How is that possible? These vehicles share the same platform, are made with the same components and in the same factory!

Maybe Chevy customers are easy to please?

1. The German plant that makes Mercedes’ CL-, CLS-, E- and S-Classes had the lowest problem rate of any in the world. Mercedes appears to have really stepped up its game, at least with regard to initial quality.

2. The Chevrolet Malibu did very well, as my initial data at TrueDelta has been suggesting it might. GM hasn’t been producing enough to fully meet demand. I suspect more attention than usual to quality control.