If we’re learning anything from the twists and turns leading into GM’s Cadillac V-Series Challenge, it’s that a good stunt is hard to stage these days [unless you have access to China's rich reserves of stunt drivers, as shown above]. Jaguar’s US PR boss Stuart Schorr has informed us that his firm’s legal and safety advisers have put the kibosh on the XF-R’s planned entry into the event. Because Jaguar was previously the only manufacturer to enter the race, the pullout leaves TTAC, Jalopnik and the New York Times’ Lawrence Ullrich without an OEM-backed ride. As a result, the media challengers (as we’re being called) will go mano-a-mano with Bob Lutz in… a CTS-V. Which makes the event a bit more of “may the best man win” than “may the best car win,” but then that’s not exactly our problem, is it? [Don't miss the literal Chinese fire drill at 1:56]
Well, only a problem in the sense that “everyone is scared of us” is a less compelling PR line than “we raced ‘em and won.” Sure, it’s a debatable point, but that debate would still hang on the assumption that promoting the CTS-V as a track-dominating sedan will make a difference in Cadillac’s fortunes. Let alone GM’s. Don’t get me wrong, as a game of corporate risk-tolerance chicken, GM clearly spooked its competitors out. Still, the argument could be made that the competition had more to lose and less to prove than Cadillac. That seems to have been the case with Jaguar.
I’m not sure I understand where the catty comments are coming from though. Jag were the only cats sticking their necks out for a race on the CTS-V’s home track (Hello Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Maserati, et al). With up to three entrants (Jack, Wes and Lawrence) running practice and hot laps in a single car, brake fade would be a concern in any stock sedan. Cadillac is bringing extra brakes and tires for their cars. In any case, Jack Baruth knows his brakes, and he’ll be sure to notice any weaknesses when he gets a turn with the XFR outside of this particular media spectacle.
I, for one, am glad that Jack will have the chance to take on Lutz in the same car. The car comparison angle to this event has always been overrated… what was this going to do for the model and brand that the CTS-V’s Nurburgring time didn’t? Let alone [shock, horror] a positive TTAC review? Now this is just a race between men… and we’re glad GM picked the best car it makes to host it in.
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Lofty England, Mike Hawthorn, and Sir William himself are all spinning in their graves. Mr. Schorr and his masters should be ashamed of themselves.
–chuck
So GM’s legal and safety advisors haven’t killed it yet?
That’s got to be worth something.
Figures.
I’d at least put out a call to Lexus, Mitsubishi, and the Dodge boys just to see if one of them might be willing to provide the event with some more variety.
Uh, yea it is your problem. You accept the challenge but don’t have the juice to deliver? Get back on the porch.
And from GMs perspective “EVERYONE is afraid of them”.
If you are going to show up and participate, you gotta have a ride. Between the 3 of you, hopefully someone can find a car that is competitive. I guess it might be a long shot to pick one up as a rental.
And yeah, I would have to say that it is your problem since you accepted the challenge but don’t have a ride.
Man, honestly, how lame.
Is there any way to rent those rides to the event?
Some rich friend?
Uh, yea it is your problem. You accept the challenge but don’t have the juice to deliver? Get back on the porch.
How in the hell is it TTAC’s, Jalopnik’s, or NYT’s problem that their ride(s) of choice, having been offered up by the manufacturer originally for this challenge, has been pulled because they can’t stand up to the challenge? Could they have not figured out that the brakes (per Jalopnik) couldn’t hold up under the stress before they were bold enough to extend the XFR for use in this stunt? This sound like a punk move from an automaker that knows they’ll get embarrassed come Thursday. What a damn shame. Maybe someone else will grow a set of balls and come through with something to challenge the CTS-V. Even if it loses, they’ll look cool just for showing up. Right now Jaguar looks more like a pussy.
Hmmm…
I just have to ask…
I don’t know how much experience Lutz actually has with driving a CTS-V (I’d still like to know, why the CTS V doesn’t look like the current iteration)..
But whats the possibility that yous guys could actually win?
Im still boggled by the power of some of the vehicles.. do people involved actually know how to handle these monsters?
Or does everyone get to choose from ZR-1 caliber vehicles.. cause they look cool?
Boo, Jaguar, I thought they were cool for a little while there. Guess not.
Well, just to make it interesting, I’m going to list some remaining cars that will at least be remotely competitive. Remotely is a pretty loose term at this point.
E-Class AMG?
C-Class AMG?
M5?
M3?
Lancer Evo?
300/Charger SRT8?
Taurus SHO?
IS-F?
S4?
S6?
RS6?
WRX STI?
Yeah, options running low, it appears
I’m confused. Did TTAC ever officially have Jaguar backing for this, or was that something you were hoping to acquire?
The guys at GM just ooze arrogance, they have the ability to manufacture cars like the CTS-V and we all know that.
What disappoints is their inability to make a profit.
Halo vehicles are great and having fun is also, but their main purpose is to provide share holders with a profit.
This is where GM fails, plain and simple. They just don’t get it.
Please dont embarrass yourselves by not showing up with your own cars. There is absolutely no point in everyone driving the same car.
Baruth seems to have access to pretty much any car he wants to drive, so perhaps he’ll show up with something.
TZ: Yes, we did have official backing. Part one of the story is here, part two here.
26theone: you’re going to have to explain why we should be embarrassed by the fact that no other manufacturer was willing to enter this race (let alone build a car capable of winning). And as for private entries, Panamera Turbos (the only stock sedan to beat the CTS-V’s ‘ring time) are not just sitting around looking for strange writers to flog them around a track. If I’m wrong about that, I encourage you to explain why via our contact form.
Edward Niedermeyer :
October 27th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
TZ: Yes, we did have official backing. Part one of the story is here, part two here.
Thanks. I somehow missed that. Odd that they would commit before conferring with legal.
I guess Jaguar turns out to be a pussy after all.
Yeah…
Look who bought them..
And now look who is having issues…
This could get interesting. All the luxury makes have made big bucks promoting the sport models of their lines (AMG, M-, RS-, etc), yet in one fell swoop, Cadillac has called them all out as overpriced posers. What happens to sales when prospective customers now realize that their AMG whatever has no real performance cred other than on ramp acceleration? Defeats the purpose of buying it, doesn’t it?
This kind of proves GM’s point in those Chevy commercials where “they” have an opinion about a GM product that no longer jives with reality.
dwFord
I hate to be a hater…
But its going to take a at least 10yrs with their best stuff (3 box cars) for a full successful generation for me to think there is anything good going on there.
NTM
Do I want to support a company that believes, no matter what ya buy its all the same. And its not even the product focus in sales… just how much on the hood.
And that’s rationale that they don focus on. The cars should sell themselves. And I don’t mean the brand new shit that’s out 2 months. What happens when its been out a yr or two.
But thats the same guy who tries to make Honda feel bad cause fuel economy doesn’t equal Chevys, all the while forgetting that Honda is…
HONDA MOTOR COMPANY = Speciality is ENGINES.
Not a Car company (although they make / sell them)
Not a Bike company (although they make / sell them)
Not a power product company (although they make / sell them).
—————-
NTM..
Is Caddy jealous cause its hawking a CTS sedan that is a current design, while the V version.. ISNT?
Is Caddy jealous of Lex cause their CUV is completely patterned after the RX?
Does Caddy have anything that’s actually unique and can stand on its own?
The battle that is going on here… is.
Now whether or not the german stuff is overpriced (even though a 50g sedan should have leather seats) and the 3 Series.. has gotten wayy too big.
Its a debate over.. does Caddy have it to compete.
Time to call Bill Ford and bring a Mustang Shelby GT 500. Intimidating and also lets GM know you don’t want a sedan from the old farts division of GM, no matter how much better the CTS-V is.
Honestly, after Jalopnik swiped the ride from TTAC, I couldn’t be happier that Jag pulled out.
Anyway, why not just go to one of those Supercar-For-A-Day rental places?
Awhile back, there was a place near me that would let out the odd Porshce or two, maybe a few other interesting things.
I’m sure they still exist.
P O R S C H E
Here’s the thing. “Standard of the World” is about quality, about comfort, and prestige. It’s about not coming in second to last in the latest Consumer Reports list, sandwiched between Chrysler schlock.
While performance is certainly important, a fast time around the track simply isn’t the primary purchase criteria for luxury car buyers. Especially when the CTS-V is so out of place in a Cadillac showroom, alongside slow also-rans like the DTS, STS, and SRX.
Can you get a Tata shipped here in time?
Twotone
I for one am looking forward to finding out how well Lutz, in his mid-70s, can do against a guy half his age. I’m rooting for the old guy–nothing against Baruth. If a guy that old can beat Baruth, I think the National Institute on Aging should study him.
Of course, there are a number of aged people who do very well at something. Brian Barru, the progenitor of all the O’Briens in the world, died in battle–at age 74, back around the 9th century AD. Nobel economist Robert Solow, and Nobel economist Tom Schelling, both pushing 90, are still hale and hearty.
David Holzman :
October 27th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Paul Newman did a respectable job as a race driver in his 70s.
I just have to say..
That is some pretty sick driving in that video clip!
Oh dear. It seems that when the big kid from Detroit gets up in some grilles, the rest of the automotive world proves themselves to be a bunch of weak, candy-assed bitches.
M-B, BMW, Lexus, Jag, et. al., can go comfort themselves with their soft-touch dashboards and handjobs from the automotive press. Meanwhile, Cadillac stands unchallenged in a no-holds-barred test of the goods.
Figures. Now go call Bob Lutz a dolt again. But don’t expect to get his attention with that nonsense while he’s nailing your wife. :)
Accords:
I am no GM lover or apologist. But they did kind of call BS on all the so-called sport sedans their manufacturers are too chicken to run on the track against the CTS-V. If they aren’t up to it, what kind of “sport” sedan are they??
This is all kind of pointless and embarassing if you guys don’t bring a car. In fact, you should each be able to wrangle a privately owned competitor. Put up a noisy public appeal (traffic signage vandalism from Jalopnik maybe). I haven’t seen any trying so far…at least not the type of trying that lends itself to your strengths (am I wrong?).
As to brakes and tires…would it really be so hard to wrangle some pads and rubber from a sponsor? It dosen’t even have to be a business local to the race, this IS the internet. It would probably go a long way to promise likely car donors some fresh wear items post-race.
I’m rooting for a TTAC win in a non-CTS-V, honestly stock. I do want Bob Lutz to kick some ass with the rest of the field though.
Suzuki ought to bring the Kizashi to this competition. Would the CTS-V beat the Kizashi around the track?
~asks the Magic 8-Ball~
“Signs point to yes”
OTOH, just showing that a four-banger Kizashi can carve curves with anywhere near the aplomb of the CTS-V would be a win for Suzuki. As they say, always punch above your weight….
Talk is free but it takes money to buy whiskey
I assume the Jag had some electrical problem along the way.
Well, obviously this went all “Ishtar”…
(google it)
But the good news is: Baruth will be able to flog a CTS-V around a racetrack. That is worth a read.
Not sure I’d agree that GM is proving anything here, with no other manufacturers allowing their cars t be raced.
If Mercedes put on the same challenge, there wouldn’t be a chance in hell that GM would allow a stock CTS-V (nor any other manufacturer with their own model) to compete against some monster that the AMG boys spent weeks/months massaging and training an executive to drive.
If Jaguar wants to make up for any bad press they get from bailing, all they would have to do is drop the $60+ large on a brand new CTS-V and invite Max-o-Lutz to face off against their own tuned XFR monster around Silverstone. GM wouldn’t even consider letting Bob-o fire up his fighter jet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFYr7FTN-II
Bottom line is, as top gear said, it feels cheap. And will lose to competitors because they do not feel cheap. If you don’t care about the quality of the car compared to a more expensive rival then, for the money you spend on it, you could get an STI, an EVO, a TT-RS, a Mini Cooper JCW. Some may compete on the track with the cts-v, some not. Thing is, when you build a sedan that performs like the CTS-V but lacks the quality of the immediate competition, you will lose. A cheaper car without the luxury badge can be just as fun. An Audi RS6 is way more expensive…but it’s got the build quality (plus, I think it would kick the CTS-V’s ass in a race). You look at the top gear review…it’s the straight-line speed that does it against the S4. All the euro handling etc etc and it still came down to straight line power to beat the Audi. Sure, it’s not a suicide machine in the turns like other American muscle cars, but it’s not a knife edge turner either.
I do like the CTS-V but if I had that kind of cash to spend, I would buy something else.
Point is, the race was a waste to begin with. You beat him in an AMG or kick his butt in an RS6, “It’s more expensive!.” You beat him in a cheaper car…you wouldn’t. EVOs, STIs and the R32 are not “direct competition”, not allowed to race. Bring a MUCH CHEAPER used car easily accessible to any used car buyer with easily accessible aftermarket parts? Not allowed. Sorry. Hell, you throw slicks on the rims and Luts would cry foul…while his team tunes the caddy to optimum levels using the secret GM guide book.
GM and Lutz got it wrong again…they boiled the purpose of a car down to race times and measurements, a pissing contest…and missed out on all the other reasons people buy a car. A 2009 V6 Camry does the 0-60 in the same time as my 2004 Audi A6 S-Line (6.3 seconds). Would I trade my 2004 Audi for a brand spanking new fully loaded V6 Camry? No extra cash required from me?…Hell no.
GM just does not get it. Still.
Wait, I’ve got an idea.
Somebody get ahold of Jay Kay’s agent and see if you can borrow his Enzo for the race.
It’s already been vandalized once, so it’s not like it’s a cherry car anyways.
This is all kinds of girly-man if you show up with no car. Really.
Are you gonna wash it for them after…? Gawd.
I am 100% with tedward, who earlier implored you to use your media power to secure a car and a sponsor for tires and brakes. With a million visits per month and a wicked fun contest, surely some tire company that ‘gets it’ will be all over this. Carmax?
Hell, call your regional Red Bull PR rep and ask if they’ll get in your corner. Yes, you have just been shat on by Jag but this is a huge opportunity for you and some partners to shine and show some real spirit.
Massive shame on the other wussy manufacturers.
Hats off to GM for doing this. I can only hope I have both the balls and the wherewithall to pull off something like this in my 70’s. Awesome.
RE: frizzlefry
October 28th, 2009 at 1:00 am
Your Youtube video shows the old CTS built from 2002-2007. By all accounts the current CTS has been vastly improved. You should remove your comment.
Take a look at the old CTS dash: http://www.autojournalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/x06ca_ct002l.jpg
And new dash: http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2009/bc/2009-Cadillac-CTS-V-Dashboard-1280×960.jpg
Mildly interesting.
Somewhat entertaining.
But ultimately, pointless.
WTF is GM trying to prove with these stunts? The CTS already seems to be selling well to the cro-magnon crowd that would be impressed with this kind of nonsense.
Those CTS stunts look exactly like the Saab stunt videos found all over the web.
May the best car not compete at all?
@Thinx
Thanks for painting CTS owners with a broad brush. I assure you that I am no cro-magnon. What, pray tell, is your chariot of choice?
My guess was that Caddy would pit their own pro driver in a V as a challenger so that even if GM looses they can still have a V pull out the best time… I didn’t expect it to get this far, where everyone with a chance to win will be driving a V. Withough a competetor’s car, you might as well tell GM that they are correct about having the fastest sedan right now.
Oh dear. It seems that when the big kid from Detroit gets up in some grilles, the rest of the automotive world proves themselves to be a bunch of weak, candy-assed bitches.
M-B, BMW, Lexus, Jag, et. al., can go comfort themselves with their soft-touch dashboards and handjobs from the automotive press. Meanwhile, Cadillac stands unchallenged in a no-holds-barred test of the goods.
Figures. Now go call Bob Lutz a dolt again. But don’t expect to get his attention with that nonsense while he’s nailing your wife. :)
I declare this the best post ever at TTAC’s!!!! So freak’in true + funny.
And for those talking about quality + luxury, have you sat in the new CTS-V? Didn’t think so. At 60 grand it provides more than most. I was thoroughly impressed, and not afraid to say so.
Now do some other Cadillac models have a ways to go? Of course. But why bag on the CTS-V and Cadillac’s pride in this car?
bts :
October 28th, 2009 at 2:31 am
RE: frizzlefry
October 28th, 2009 at 1:00 am
Your Youtube video shows the old CTS built from 2002-2007. By all accounts the current CTS has been vastly improved. You should remove your comment.
Take a look at the old CTS dash: http://www.autojournalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/x06ca_ct002l.jpg
And new dash: http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2009/bc/2009-Cadillac-CTS-V-Dashboard-1280×960.jpg
I stand corrected.
What if, now that everything has seemed to fizzle at this late hour, there was a collective “meh” and nobody showed?
Since it is, by definition, now a Sienfeld race…a race about nothing.
And on a wider scale, a PR event about nothing.
So, attend it as such…meaning, not at all.
I assume the Jag had some electrical problem along the way.
It probably drove thru a puddle. Some things never change.
Sorry, but I gotta wonder why in the hell anyone thinks any automaker would give their car to a no-name blogger to drive in a GM-rigged publicity stunt?
Please, any PR director worth a paycheck would kill this dead.
I have MORE respect for the companies that gave this fetid mess a wide berth from the beginning.
@Accords
Is Caddy jealous cause its hawking a CTS sedan that is a current design, while the V version.. ISNT?
Is Caddy jealous of Lex cause their CUV is completely patterned after the RX?
Does Caddy have anything that’s actually unique and can stand on its own?
The battle that is going on here… is.
Now whether or not the german stuff is overpriced (even though a 50g sedan should have leather seats) and the 3 Series.. has gotten wayy too big.
Its a debate over.. does Caddy have it to compete.
The V version is of the current design. The grill is different for air flow. You must research before you post.
I am confused about your Lexus RX comments. What do you mean patterned after? I mean, sure they have 4 wheels and are crossovers. They have luxury amenities. They are both FWD.
What do you mean unique and can stand on its own? I think the CTS is very good. The Coupe and Wagon should be good there as well. The SRX is also very good. They can stand on their own. But, are they unique? What does Acura have that is unique, or BMW, or Lexus, or MB? We are talking about cars here. Don’t sensationalize an argument.