Comments on: Is the New BMW M3 a Born Loser?

By: studbike

studbike — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:57:48 +0000

I dont get why people are saying the m3 has gone soft and complaining about the low torque in the same sentance. The m3 has always been a powerhouse. Its supposed to be high-strung. Its supposed to be a good value, not a great value. the real news here isnt that its a v8, its that its much more powerful AND LIGHTER then the I6 it replaces.

By: Dr. No

Dr. No — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:48:09 +0000

$60k “when all is said and done…”

Uh, make that closer to $68k, with options. It will price under the RS4, but the BMW will be more for the enthusiast.

I think the new M3 will rock! However, the I35 is certainly a car to watch if you’re chasing high performance and value.

By: guyincognito

guyincognito — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:12:04 +0000

When its stats are compared to the RS4 and the 335i it does sound a little disappointing. However, as a driver of a 240hp 227 ft-lb torque E36 M3, I can assure you it is going to be an awesome car. It also will have an entirely different feel than an awd audi or a twin turbo inline 6.

Still I will probably get the 335i and mod it. As has been pointed out the aftermarket is already pumping out goodies that seriously increase its power and performance. You could throw on some coilovers, an lsd, free-er flowing exhaust, a new bov, and even a lower compression head gasket and a couple of bigger turbos with a custom tune for around the price of a marked up M3.

By: maxxm

maxxm — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:35:34 +0000

“The AMG 63’s aren’t as easy to mod.”

Not yet, anyway….

By: mrcknievel

mrcknievel — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:09:17 +0000

GoClick:
A lot of M3 owners modify their cars and this one has good potential.

I don’t see a lot of AMG owners doing squat to their cars.

Kleeman, Renntech and Brabus mods are common among AMG owners, esp. folks with the AMG 55 or AMG 32 models. The AMG 63’s aren’t as easy to mod.

By: GoClick

GoClick — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:42:23 +0000

A lot of M3 owners modify their cars and this one has good potential.

I don’t see a lot of AMG owners doing squat to their cars.

By: jdv

jdv — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:03:25 +0000

Doh! Quote not showing up! Here it is again.

“In my opinion, the new M3 isn’t a massively aggressive, no-compromise set-up – but why should it be? It needs to be driven as a flagship car by people who only own one motor, and BMW readily agrees that there’s space for a more hardcore ‘CSL’ version later in the model life.

Truth is, I’m more for a car that’s fun to drive than a car that’s gained the last 10th around the track. I’m more for a car with soul than speed. The new M3, for me, has it.”

By: jdv

jdv — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:02:34 +0000

I wish M3’s depreciated like rocks, but they don’t.

And without driving the new car to form my own impression, this comment from Top Gear somewhat matches my own values

By: Brock_Landers

Brock_Landers — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:33:51 +0000

How will the tuner market for the 135i/335i affect the M3 performance benchmark image for the potential customer? Already there are software upgares for sale for the 3.0L twinturbo engine, that raise the output to 380hp/400lb-ft. That is only a mild software upgrade for 91 octane pump gas. Costs about 1300 USD.

By: Penaloza

Penaloza — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 05:22:11 +0000

Wake me when they put that V8 in their roadster. I would love to hear that thing at 8300rpm with the top down.

By: edgett

edgett — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:33:57 +0000

as a very satisfied 335 owner, I read all of the countervailing hoopla about the new M3 and have difficulty understanding it. Certainly the 335 is a fabulous car, and I like the near-sleeper aspect a great deal. yet the M3 has been, like the 3-series coupe, largely un-Bangled and offers an aggressive yet tasteful variation on the 3-series chassis aimed at another market. Who cares that it doesn’t make horsepower like a CLK6.3? it comes with a six-speed (unavailable on the MB) and will I’d guess still trounce the MB around any decent roadracing track. It’s not perfect, but neither was the last one.

And to those who think that $60k will put you into a 997, the base on a C2S is $73k, and it has “only” 325 hp from 3.6 liters. For $10k less, the M3 offers real back seats, a usable trunk, a friggin 8300 RPM V8 and four years of included maintenance. no dis on the Porsche, but if it’s “economy” performance one is looking for, the C6 takes the prize and will get better gas mileage than either the M3 or the C2S.

These cars are just fabulous tools – there’s some great ones out there, and BMW has just added another good one to the mix! it’s still no Lexus…

By: quasimondo

quasimondo — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:21:11 +0000

A lightweight German car is an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.

M3’s have been downhill since the E36 exited stage left. In my opinion, you can have too much refinement.

By: Kurt B

Kurt B — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:12:29 +0000

I volunteer to take one on for 6 months if anyone is offering ;-)

By: mrcknievel

mrcknievel — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:19:00 +0000

The sheer density of these cars is freakin hilarious…3600lbs? The new C63 is in the 37-3800 range I think…hell of a lot more torque though without having to rev like a damn j-racer to get there.

I’m interested in how this car holds up during reviews and tests.

By: maxspivak

maxspivak — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:49:26 +0000

I too long to drive the 135. However, it’s based on E46 platform, a less stiff one that E9x. I wonder how much that matters on a day to day basis? And why couldn’t they put the M badge on the 335? To not dilute the M3, probably.

The three 335s I drove left me wanting for a bit more edge.

The several used E46 M3s I considered reminded me of that wild girl you meet at a high school party, have a blast with, but wouldn’t want to be married to on a daily basis. ;)

I’ll reserve judgement on the new M3, though the writeups are disappointing. Was it overhyped? Is even possible to achieve expectations?

By: maxspivak

maxspivak — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:44:48 +0000

phil, I’d like to see that writeup from Roundel. Can you pls email to cars@eeeyore_dot_com.

By: Paul Niedermeyer

Paul Niedermeyer — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:08:04 +0000

cycloptcgaze said it all: “the M3’s the new M6″ and “the new 135 is the new M3″

By: unsprung weight

unsprung weight — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:04:38 +0000

Haven’t driven the new M3 but the idea that it’s gotten a little softer is actually appealing to someone that 10 years ago would have been counted amongst those who consider it sacrilege. If it’s going to knock the RS4 off the top of my list (which I have driven), it’ll have to have some more daily drivability. And let’s not doubt that this will leave room for some sort of M3+. And let’s not forget that BMW is in the business of selling cars and, GENERALLY SPEAKING(!), more money = older = willing to trade a little performance for a little more comfort. In short, this’ll be the best-selling M3 ever.

By: cyclopticgaze

cyclopticgaze — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:44:40 +0000

Feature creep, or, really, statistics creep is killing the M3. It’s a technical marvel, no doubt. Badass engineering. But the M3’s becoming the new M6: A package meant to appeal to a buyer rather than a driver. That doesn’t mean that it’s not a hell of a drive. But isn’t it clear that they’ve upped the HP to have a high number on paper and kept the torque low so people don’t spin out during everyday driving (or the DSC angels aren’t always on)?

Looks like the 335i, or hell the 135i, is the new M3.

By: phil

phil — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:10:03 +0000

PS- the 335 may have an oil temp achilles heal, i’m sure you’ve seen some of the reports, including the one in this month’s motor trend. anyway, i have a file from mike miller at Roundel that describes the current state of the problem if anyone’s interested.

By: phil

phil — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:07:08 +0000

the 335i is definitely making life hard for the rest of the bmw lineup, esp the new M3. this month’s car and driver called the 335i the “best car in the world” and in fact it kicked the butt of the RS4, beating it’s lap time by several SECONDS, and costing many thousands less. didn’t the RS4 get god-status on this site recently? anyway, its porky and nose-heavy nature was clearly revealed by the race track and pointed out by the C and D eds.
the M3 with a dual clutch tranny could be an awesome ride so like the others i think we should wait until more detailed reviews are published or we can actually drive the thing. now a twin turbo V8 M3, mmmmmm…

By: yobyot

yobyot — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:17:32 +0000

For me, the whole phenom of the M3 represents an astonishing achievement in marketing. I’ve commented
on my blog about this.

By: Robert Schwartz

Robert Schwartz — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:08:32 +0000

Oh I don’t want her
You can have her
She’s too fat for me

By: sightline

sightline — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:04:30 +0000

I remember seeing somewhere that right around 50% of BMWs are leased. Anyone want to corroborate or refute that statistic?

I was ready to put a deposit down on one of these last year…then BMW of Mountain View cheerfully informed me that there would be a markup “determined at a later date.” Needless to say, I walked away.

I’m sure the car is glorious to drive, but 70k including CA taxes seems excessive. All this new generation of M-cars are targeted at consumers rather than drivers.

It will be interesting to see if, when the debt markets tighten, sports cars are hit as hard as they were in the 1990 recession. Until that happens, I’m sure I’ll see a ton of these being driven around the Marina.

By: NICKNICK

NICKNICK — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:03:10 +0000

I drive a turbocharged car with a big, flat torque curve. I love that I have torque way down low and can accelerate without shifting. However, horses are horses, and 420 is more than 300. The difference here is that you’ll have to shift to get what you want. If you’re human, like me, your downshifts may not be perfect. I do a very good job of rev-matching, but I bollocks it up often enough that unless I’m in the mood or in the “zone,” I often won’t go for it. The DSG was made for people like me. Put a DSG in the M3, and I will relish the fact that it spins over 8 grand. The noise will be sublime. I haven’t read whether it’s a flat-plane crank or an American-style V8, but either way, Ferarri howl or Nascar scream, it’ll be awesome.

But since price is a factor, I’ve got to hand it to the 335i. Actually, I’m mulling over a 328i, because equipped with the sport package (both cars), the 338i comes in over $5000 cheaper, and I learned some time ago that 200 horses is plenty enough for trouble, so the 240 or whatever in the 328i ought to be plenty for where I live.