I’d just slipped the nozzle into my Cadillac XLR-V. A dark Merc SL550 rolled up, its driver eyeing my Bowling Green Batmobile. As he busied himself with the credit card ritual, every few seconds his eyes darted sideways to the Caddy. “Mind if I look inside?” He sat behind the wheel, running his fingers across the interior surfaces. “Nice,” he pronounced. “Comfortable. And it’s easy to see out. There isn’t as much storage as my SL, but I’d be OK with that.” As he exited the XLR-V, he issued his verdict: “I wish I had the courage.”
“It’s been completely reliable,” I assured the SL guy, figuring he was wary of GM’s reputation for mechanical “mishaps.” “I’ve had it for over 23,000 miles without any problems.”
“That’s not what I meant,” he said. “I wish I had the courage to buy a car I’d have to explain to my friends. I love the style; I really admire it. But no one would understand if I bought a Cadillac. You have more guts than me.”
Americans scraped their way through the Depression, prevailed in two global wars, hung tough for 45 years of Cold War, went to the moon and opened our markets to help lift the world to prosperity. And now it comes to this: a man who likes a car designed and made by Americans in the United States– which he can clearly afford– is squeamish at the prospect of explaining an American-made automotive choice to his peers.
It may be unpopular to say it, but the existential threat to Detroit’s Big Three has a consumer component. There are 360 degrees of blame. Consumers must step up too.
Detroit’s products have changed. Whether you credit government intervention, consumer activism or foreign competition, there are no more rusting Vegas, exploding Pintos and 8-6-4 Cadillacs that can’t do math on the fly. As this website has pointed out on numerous occasions, product quality data says pretty much everything offered to American car buyers is mechanically reliable. Even if that salient fact hasn’t yet reached American consumer’s ears, reliability is not as important as it once was. Car choice often descends into pointless arguments over interior plastics, comparative depreciation and social acceptability.
This is why American manufacturers haven’t enjoyed the sales resurgence their new, improved products deserve: prejudice. American consumers share an irrational belief that American-made goods are inherently inferior to those produced by Japanese, German and even Korean manufacturers. A VW may find its way into the repair shop twice as often as a Chevrolet, but the German-branded car is still perceived as a higher quality product simply because it’s German.
A recent study by J.D. Power revealed that 80 percent of America's new car intenders won’t actively cross-shop either domestic or foreign, depending on their preference. While you can blame this horrific statistic on Detroit’s previous sins, it’s still a blanket condemnation of the Americans consumer’s idea of fair play. “You gotta put Mercury on your list,” the ad practically begs. And so it should be. Again, it may be unfashionable to suggest, but there is a penalty to pay for this blind bias against home-grown (or at least sold) products.
The United States is the only First World country projected to be substantially larger in population at the end of this century than it is today. The theory of comparative advantage says we should let our uncompetitive industries die. But of course, economists always neglect the human factor of politics. We have global responsibilities. We will continue to be a magnet for those with hope, and must accommodate an expanding, diverse population. We need a full-spectrum economy, not one divided between wealthy and struggling.
Manufacturing jobs are the bridge. As the US Department of Commerce reported in March, 2007:“Auto manufacturing remains one of the economy’s best paying industries. Production workers’ average hourly earnings were projected to reach $30.02 (excluding benefits) in 2006. Wages were 79 percent greater than the national average for all manufacturing industries.”
They also note that reductions in employment by GM, Ford and Chrysler will not be made up by transplant hiring. Beyond that, transplant sales do not support the tens of thousands of domestic high-salary headquarters jobs that a Detroit 3 purchase does today.
A holistic understanding of our mutual social contract suggests that we should at least give Detroit a fair shot at our patronage. In a 16 million units annual new vehicle market, can we find one million more buyers for the best, most competitive domestic iron?
Having driven the primary competitors in the volume car biz, I’m convinced that if a million import bigots dropped their bias against domestic iron and truly reconsidered what constitutes meaningful difference in a car comparison, they’d make the right choice– and not regret it. And we’d all be stronger for it.
1,104 Comments on “In Defense of: American Automakers...”
Back to TopLeave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
You can also login using Facebook Connect.
So true, so true. The bias against the US manufacturers is unbelievable, even from the consumers who do come in the lot. There are those willing to give another chance. At my dealership, the Lincoln MKX is doing a great job at getting import buyers to switch back.
Great editorial!
Detroit lost an entire generation of buyers starting in the mid 70’s, its effects are still felt today. This lost generation is influencing an entire demographic segment.
The idea of having to explain “how could you buy an XLR-V when an SL500 is a safer choice”. Is a poignant example.
All cars are inexorably shifting from a mechanical platform, to an electronic platform with the quirks and glitches associated with all things electronic. Who is rating the electronics in cars?
“Import bigots” is priceless.
I’m living proof of said bias. My personal history with domestic cars has completely taken them off the table for future car purchases…I won’t even consider them. Unfair? Maybe…but to me they aren’t doing much to win me back either.
1) 10-year, no-excuses, no-BS warranty. At least as good as the Koreans, if not better. And actually honored without grumbles by dealerships.
2) Interiors that don’t suck. I cannot tell you the number of GM rentals i’ve driven with 20k on the clock that felt like they were on death’s doorstep. I don’t care why, it is not my problem. I want to know the car is in it for the long haul. Fix it.
3) Kill half the dealerships. Employ an undercover team at HQ that goes out and actually examines the dealerships for oily service writers and Tarlek-ian salesmen. Then close them down. Don’t say it can’t be done, I don’t care, as a consumer its not my problem. I want good service for the second-most expensive asset i’ll ever purchase.
4) Guaranteed trade-in price to offset catastrophic depreciation. Can’t do it? I’ll happily go over to the Honda dealer where I know the residuals will be high. Why should I waste my $ on the domestic’s poor business practices? Give me the reassurance that even if the car is a POS, it won’t be a financial bloodbath.
If these steps were taken – and the product wasn’t terrible – it would not take many years for the domestics to reach the level of esteem that the Koreans have achieved (ie, not top-rung, but not dismissed out-of-hand by most consumers either.)
Gotta agree. BMW makes some awesome cars, so does Mercedes.
But for my money, I’ll take a new Z06 Corvette and watch them all drool. And if I drive like an even slightly sane person, I’ll get between 25 and 27 MPG on the highway and have the ability to embarrass just about everything else on the road. No matter who makes it or how much it costs.
Not bad for “American Junk”.
By the way… If anyone is interested, the very best of the best in the Audiophile World of high-end electronics is completely in the Domestic Venue.
So will everybody PLEASE stop bashing everything “American”?!!!
Just remember… When you disrespect all things American, you’re disrespecting yourself as well.
My first issue with Detroit is their preference for pimp rides which show a complete disconnect from how the rest of the developed world produces cars.
Domestic brands tend to hold onto to dated transmissions, engine designs and suspension components until the buffalo bleeds or Lincoln screams.
Third, but not least, the dealer experience at most domestic brands is pure KIA.
I’m sorry but purchasing a car is not an investment. The only way to cut down on losses is to get one with the highest resale value and domestics are unfortunately not doing so well in that department. (neither are some German cars). Maybe they are overpriced to begin with?
There might be one or two domestic brands with good resale (perhaps the Wrangler) but America has one of the best road networks hence the target market is slightly limited.
One of Detroit’s main problem in wooing American customers (as I see it) is this:
In the 1980’s to the late 90’s American cars were the only ones to be seen in. But in the last 10 years or so, globalisation crept into the North American market and suddenly it wasn’t fashionable to be seen in Detroit steel. Nothing against american cars, but people suddenly had an image to maintain and now are staying away from Detroit in their droves. Most have horror stories from the car to the dealers and to be honest, that’s a problem I don’t think anyone can solve, once you burn a customer it’s likely they won’t come back, better off wooing the next generation. But now the current generation don’t want to be seen in american cars because it’s just not fashionable. So now Detroit have 2 generations of customers not buying their cars!
It can’t be helped, that’s just the way fashion works, just ask anybody in the clothing industry. Burberry in the UK is a highly respected brand abroad, but people in the UK wouldn’t been seen dead in Burberry, foreign labels are much more fashionable (Hugo Boss, D and G, DKNY etc). Detroit do have some world class engineers and left to their own devices they would come out with world class cars. But accountants and managment always know better, hence, we end up with (in my opinion) vulgar cars like the Cadillac Escalade or the Chevrolet Aveo (a budget car which tightwads would turn their noses up at!) Detroit do have the talent and flair to make the next world class car, but don’t have the freedom or budget thanks to years of mismanagment and, believe it or not, some customers don’t like to patronise a company like that and would rather buy a car from a company that’s moving forward (i.e Toyota) which brings me back neatly to fashion.
Detroit’s only hope is to DICTATE the next fashion rather than imitate it. Oh and fix their perception gap, reliability, treatment of customers, management and dealers…..!
“A recent study by J.D. Power revealed that 80 percent of Americans refuse to even consider buying a domestic car.”
Wow! Is it really that high? I bet this is just for cars and not SUV/Trucks
I can’t even get people to look at a Ford Fusion. Maybe, since Mulally is on a renaming kick, Rename the Fusion to “HondahFusion”.
Rollingrock, those are just bad steps. You might as well ask for the sun, moon, and stars on a silver platter.
1. Would you expose yourself to having to fix problems caused by abusive and neglectful owners? A no BS, no excuses warranty does just that. Warranties are supposed to guarantee the workmanship of a vehicle, not give you a free engine because you failed to change the oil for 15000 miles.
2. I made it a point at last year’s auto show to sit inside every domestic car to see just how bad the interiors were. Perhaps my standards aren’t as high as everyone else’s but they sure didn’t feel ready to fall apart. Neiter did the Escape I rented. Gutless, I’ll admit that. Out of curiousity, which vehicles did you rent that felt ready to fall apart?
3. You are aware of franchise laws that vary from state to state that protect most dealerships from being shut down, right? You do remember how much it cost GM just to shut down Oldsmobile, right?
4. GM heaps loads of discounts on their cars. Now they’re supposed to pay you even more if the trade-in value is low? Aside from this being ripe for fraud, it’s just silly. That’s like asking Honda to guarantee a replacement Civic since they populate 8 of the top 10 stolen cars list.
You can’t just dole out simple solutions for complex problems.
Typically, as the writer of the editorial did, the car in question was not a bread&butter car. XLR-V, no less.
The Corvette falls into the same category. Go to the GM Message Board and see all the truck owners swear by their Silverados and bitch about the Tundra they wouldnt be buying anyway.
But how about buying a Cobalt over a Civic? A Malibu over an Altima? Aveo over a Scion?
GM could make the most reliable, dependable cars in the world right now with impeccable fit and finish. No matter. If the car lacks consumer appeal, if the driving dynamics are not what people enjoy, it’s all for naught.
There are reasons why 80% of the US public do not buy domestic cars. 2 generations later, they’re not even on most peoples radar screens. And the puclic is to blame? Our former enemies have been forgiven, but those customers that used buy domestic feel the companies havent supported THEM, and since many feel they were screwed by our own, no need to reward them by giving them another chance to do the same.
Work in a dealership as I do, you hear it from older former domestic car customers all the time.
I own an american car (plymouth neon) and a japanese one (Subaru WRX STi) as well as a japanese bike (suzuki gsx-r 600).
The neon I bought used for $1k a few years ago with 122k on the clock. It’s not a bad car, fairly reliable and cheap to fix. I went with my wife at a constant 55mph on a trip to WI from Chicago in the right lane fora 2-3 hour trip and averaged 38-39mpg. The car now has 156k on it and I really have nothing majorly bad to say about it as far as reliability. But this is NOT the only thing that is important to me.
Here are my comments
1) 3 speed auto ? 3 SPEED ??? WHY? If it wasn’t bargain basement I wouldn’t have bought it. Never would have even considered it new.
2) electronic nothing. It even has a tape deck, not a cd and it’s a year 2k model. No power windows, no power doors, no way to unlock the back doors from the outside.
3) The outside mirror positioning sucks. It doesn’t work well (it came broken & still is broken).
4) It’s automatic. Another reason I wouldn’t have considered it. Some american cars you can’t even get a manual as an option.
5) 0-60 in 11 means it can’t get out of it’s own way.
It’s fine for the wife who maxes out at 30mph in the city and is a super-over-cautious careful driver who just needs it to get from one place to another.
I bought my Subaru due to no American company making a rally bred car. 0-60 in under 5, for 30g’s with all wheel drive & dccd.
I don’t think any american manufacturer makes anything that competes with it (Don’t mention mustang GT’s. They are fatter & slower and have much higher depreciation & cost basically the same, new). I was also looking at an elise at the time but couldn’t justify the extra $10k and higher insurance.
Sportbikes…I have a gsx-r 600, 2005 that I paid just over $8k out the door for. Where are the american manufacturers ? Buell ?
Perhaps if American companies made something in _any_ of the classes of vehicle I want to buy, I might consider them.
Very interesting editorial. My wife currently drives an ‘02 BMW 325xi with over 90k miles on it. She plans to replace it in about 6 months when it will be over 100k. When I suggested she look at the new Caddy CTS she just laughed at me and said “Are you kidding?”. This is the hurdle the domestics must overcome.
This is a thoughtful, well-written editorial. It addresses an important topic. It deserves responses from us that are equally trenchant, not diatribes.
I am going to buy two new cars in the coming year, one a small hatchback and the other a four door sedan. I plan to keep them for at least 8 – 10 years. So, the following questions are not rhetorical.
Is there an American equivalent to the Mazda 3 or the VW GTI? Right now, I’m not aware of anything, ‘tho perhaps the coming Saturn Astra might fill the bill?
And… is there an American equivalent to a four-cylinder Honda Accord, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry? Maybe the coming Chevrolet Malibu?
Any and all (well, almost) suggestions would be welcome. Despite poor experiences with Detroit and American dealerships in the past, I’d be willing to try one more time.
Count me as one that wouldn’t own a domestic. Averaging 60k miles a year running service taught me that the domestics were junk. This may no longer be the case but the dealers alone keep me away.
If there is such a thing as a lost generation for Detroit then I’m the poster child.
How many people know that small Japanese cars from the mid-1970s exploded at the same rate as the Pinto? Ford got in trouble not for the explosions, but because their engineers worked out a solution for the gas tank rupture problem that was ignored by management. An irresponsible press picked up the story and invented sensational tales equaling Pintos to hot nitroglycerin.
BTW, a friend’s father owned a mid-70s Pinto. As I recall it was not a bad, car when compared to the other 70s cars(they all pretty much sucked).
I’m with Ken Strumpf.
I suggested to my wife replacing my Nissan Maxima with a new Pontiac G8. She laughed hysterically. And, her father used to work for GM…
We’ve purchased 3 new cars in the past 6 years. At no time did the domestics make the short list, as we’re both a cheapskates (and as qa said, cars are not investments) but willing to pay a little more for safety features, as the kids are on board.
Fall 2001: mid-sized sedan, short list Camry, Passat, Altima, as those had the most safety features for for $20k. No domestics had side curtain airbags, so no go.
Spring 2004: minivan, short list Sienna 8 psgr. Nothing else was even considered – you mean I was supposed to look at the pre-CSV GM minivan?
Winter 2007: small cheap vehicle that could fit 3 car seats simultaneously, short list Mazda5 and Kia Rondo.
Me, a bigot? 3 in a row means I suppose so, but simply stated, domestics didn’t make products worthy of our hard earned dough.
Being a car guy, most of my friends and family turn to me for automotive advice, (anyone else experience this on a daily basis?) and I try not to have a biased opinion when they ask me “What should I get?”
The hard part is not that all American cars suck, they don’t. The hard part is convincing people of that. A friend recently came to me asking what car he should get, he was in the market for a midsize sedan, with a 4 cyl and manual tranny. Tough choice to get him into a domestic with a manual!
In the end we went looking at Altima’s, Accords, and Fusions. He was immediately turned off the Fusion until I casually mentioned that it was essentially a Mazda 6 under the skin. He got the Fusion, and loves it.
Funny how the best domestic cars seem to be based on foreign designs/platforms. The Astra is getting alot of attention for being a competative domestic car but thats because it’s an import!!
As KatiePuckrik mentions, it really is all about fashion. American cars are now unfashionable to the point that anyone who actually cares about fashion avoids Detroit nameplates like the plague.
Also, more and more people are only exposed to them because they have to rent one. That gives zillions of people (Americans and foreign folks alike) the idea that American cars are dull, cheap, uninspiring plastic cars. But the thing is, you can easily make that very argument about the vast majority of American cars being sold today.
And then there’s the plummeting resale value…
“I wish I had the courage.” The statement by the Mercedes driver pretty much sums up the 80% who wont’ consider domestic cars these days. They’re a bunch of mindless, robotic conformists that buy the same thing their friends do, afraid not of their product failing them but afraid of being unique and different and buying something based on their own best judgement and needs.
That’s pretty sad when you think that the strengths we Americans like to pride ourselves in are individualism and an independent, creative, pioneering spirit. Our consumers instead have become a bunch of timid sheep, afraid of stepping out of their comfort zones and trying on something different. If that’s truly the case, then there’s no hope for the Detroit Three, and no hope for this country.
I’m not certain about this 80% figure – I think that the statement should be “80% of import intenders/buyers would NOT even consider a US brand vehicle.”
I know I’m in the 100% category of “never again”. But then, I’d pretty well bought mostly American branded stuff since 1973 until 2002, So I’d say 30 years is “enough time to get it right” wouldn’t you? Especially considering the fact that this 30 years was the time-frame in which the Japanese car manufacturers improved and took so much market?
So, Detroit Inc, where was your competitive spirit? Oh yeah, you were too wrapped up in your own little dream world where import brands didn’t matter, and you were only in competition with each other….
So, Detroit Inc dealers, where was your customer service spirit? Oh yeah, you were too wrapped up in YOUR own little dream world where you could treat customers as you wished (poorly) because they’d be back – or maybe they’d trade around between the big 3 Detroit companies (and since the other dealers were doing the same thing, you’d gain some, they’d gain some…)
So for me, it really doesn’t matter what the Detroit 2.8 do any more – I’m simply not interested in considering any of their stuff for purchase.
It wasn’t even a case of “burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice shame on me”. More like about 12 times (I’ve honestly lost count) new and used US stuff.
Buyers have been screwed by incentive rebates and frankly the poor resale value too many times. So it is not entirely irrational to not buy a US car, nor is it all the dictates of fashion. Then again, the dealer experience is ridiculously bad compared to the imports (try and buy something good like a ZR-1 and they gouge you, anything else and they try and screw you another way).
And the domestics have never tried to really revolutionize the experience. Yes, dealers unfairly have franchise laws to protect them, but GM could have adopted the no-haggle approach across their line. One way to get rid of dealers is not to kowtow to them.
As a fellow Subaru owner (Legacy GT) I’d echo the comments of Robstar and several others, as American manufacturers simply don’t make anything that appeals to me. Where is the small to mid-size sport sedan with RWD or AWD and a manual (and the handling to match)? I realize 95% of Americans want a FWD automatic, but they’re losing my business because they don’t offer a car that I want to drive. Should the G8 (or any other RWD Pontiac sedan) materialize, I’ll take a look at that if I’m in the market, but even then it is going to be a bit too large for me. The Neon (and now Caliber) SRT-4 fit most of that, but FWD? No thanks. The AWD Fusion? No manual. Does Mazda count as American?
All would be forgiven if we could just be sure that American cars are reliable. The oft-cited statisticss that show improving reliability are, to the oridnary consumer, useless. I want to to know for my make AND model, how reliable it is. And the question of “how reliable it is” can only be answered by long-term data, not this 90-day foolishness. Three-year data is a good start, but to reassure consumers, it must be given by model. Consumer Reports is the only source (that I know of) that provides this type of info, and according to their research, Japanese cars still have the best long-term records.
Of course, models change a lot over the long term. That’s the whole point of the US automakers’ current round of chest-thumping: the cars are different now, we promise! Maybe they are. But they have to make reliable cars across their lineups for at least six years before they can hope to regain consumer trust. No one wants to be the schlubb who falls for the next K-car.
As far as the whole social contract thing goes… my obligation to my fellow American does NOT include spending $25k on a car which could leave me stranded by the side of the road and facing a big repair bill.
You want to help your fellow American worker? Vote for higher taxes to pay for programs that train them for work where they can be competitive, and to pay for supporting them and their families until they can perform that work. But don’t ask me to spend a huge chunk of my income on a bad product that could regularly make me miserable.
I hope the Malibu turns out to be the next Camry. But I won’t hold my breath, because it will take at least six years to be sure.
By no-BS I didn’t mean “fix no matter what”, but rather that historically, domestic dealerships do everything in their power to avoid having to do warranty work. This trend began in the 70s when Detroit was slinging really shoddy junk, and the culture persists. I’ve had no such problems with Subaru, Toyota or other non-domestic brands.
I rent a lot of cars at work. Cobalts = not good. Ions = bad to the point where i can’t believe anyone buys them retail. Aveo = shedding parts while i was driving (door handle). Grand Prix = interior with unfinished metal that actually cut me. I could go on, but I think anyone that rents a lot of cars knows where i’m coming from. The Grand Marquis was nice, too bad it handled like a parade float.
When a patient has gangrene in their foot, you don’t chop off small bits of their foot and leg as the infection rises. You chop off the whole damn thing in one fell swoop. it is the only way to save the patient. GM dealer network = necrotic, black, lifeless. Muster the cash, take the earnings hit for a quarter and do what needs to be done.
In fact, back in the 1980s, i do recall Cadillac offering guaranteed resale value on the Allante. That car was hopeless though, so it didn’t help much. But surely it could be done for the CTS, because it is a competitve product. Right? What better way to get risk-averse people to give it a try.
I’m kind of sick of the domestics pointing to the short JD Power surveys and saying they’re as good as anybody. 90 day JD Power surveys says you can get it off the line without it breaking. That’s expected – it says nothing about the long-term quality of the car. As a number of others have pointed out, after 60k miles most domestics feel like they’re ready to fall apart. I keep my cars 5-8 years and over this time period domestics do not hold their quality.
I’d like to see a comparison between the Caddy and the imports in the same segment with 100k miles on it and see how it compares. Resale says not so good.
Have the domestics made improvements? Absolutely. Are they better vehicles than the imports over the long-term? I don’t see it.
Its not just perception. Quit wasting time beating your chest on how good you are and make a better vehicle.
I really think that for me, a 24 year old, this is my father’s bias. Some in my generation have picked it up, but I think the “perception gap” will fade with time. Problem is, my generation turns to their parents for purchasing advice and this is where the bias gets passed down – the Big Three made absolute crap in the 70’s through the mid 90’s or so, and those years cemented their image as subpar cars.
In pretty much every segment, US automakers offer an appealing option, if you don’t mind taking the chance that the automaker you buy your car from won’t be around in 7 years or so.
Today’s buyers will eventually drive their Avalons into the grave and tomorrow’s buyers don’t really care half as much about their cars as they do their iPods. So long as the Detroit automakers can keep producing competitive vehicles and stay at the forefront of technology integration, the pendulum will swing back home (especially as the dollar decreases in value and foreign car prices, particularly European, increase).
Let’s take my Mercury Sable as an example.
47K the tie rods went. There was no grease, not a drop, in the ends. rear stabilizers broke, flimsy carbon steel with no rust prevention. Tiny brake rotors meant brake jobs every 15K. ABS light came on in the rain, faulty waterproofing on a critical connector (for something as critical as brakes). Head gasket went at 78K miles, exactly how is this related to owner abuse I asked the dealer? transmission lost the overdrive due to cheap c-clip breaking in two. This cooked my transmission as I attempted to get home rather than shellout 1500 dollars to a transmission shop whose only answer was”it has to come out for us to determine what is wrong with it”. Turn signal control fell off at 49K, maybe I should make fewer turns. Oil leaks everywhere. AC blower a victim of faulty brushes , but that’s OK because we will let the owners pay for a new one that is redesigned, removing Ford’s responsibility for another defect.
This contributed to cliff face depreciation so bad I was grateful for a 400.00 trade-in.
These defects are faulty design and engineering, not the fault of the UAW or even the dealer network. And we are to trust theuir brand new cars and engines won’t have gotchas? Take a chance with your money, I won’t
My brother owns a Cadillac and a Mercedes. And he is proud of it! Mind you he makes his living as a marketer. Like many owners, my brother is living his childhood fantasy, when both these makes represented personal achievement. Today, few automobiles shout more loudly and clearly to the rest of the world that the owner knows nothing about automobiles.
As most Caddy and Merc owners have never owned a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti, they don’t realize they are drinking warm coffee and eating day old doughnuts.
I do have to agree with the people on here (as someone who got burned by Detroit), that although Detroit may be making some decent cars recently, lest we forget the amount of junk which has come from them. There are so many horror stories out there, that it’s got to be more than a coincidence! You cannot realistically expect to burn millions of people for years with shoddy products, then make a decent car and expect people to buy it. It’s also the reputation we’re buying too.
Detroit has burned many people and saying “we’re good now, why don’t people trust us?” is like Kenneth Lay starting a new company and wondering why no-one wants to invest in him! Buying a car is the best part of £15000 (or $20000 adjusting for US prices). I’m sorry but if I’m lashing out that kind of money I want a guarantee or a history of exemplary service and reliability. SAYING you’re better than before and quoting some awards isn’t enough. You want my business back? EARN IT! Which brings me neatly onto Detroit’s second biggest problem:
Where has their competitive spirit gone…..?
You must forgive me, but I believe that the War Against the Transplants is as misguided as was blaming the country’s woes on the Irish/ Italians/ Chinese/ Mexicans / insert other ethnic group here back in the days of yore, when it came down to the fact that not everybody wins in a free market society.
What Detroit forgets is that the customer is always right. That is no cliche — the consumer owes no company anything except for the money that is required when s/he decides to exchange it for a product sold by that business.
If consumers don’t like Detroit vehicles for whatever reason, let them. It is the job of the Detroit automakers to change that fact if they don’t like the resulting decline in sales.
When consumers decided that they didn’t like Citroen, Peugeot and Renault, the French bid a hasty retreat. Ditto for FIAT, that could convince millions of Italians that an unreliable box was worth buying, but not Americans. When Daihatsu couldn’t cut it, sayonara to them — being Japanese didn’t help. When Yugo became a laughing stock that could make a Ford Tempo look good, it went back home with barely a whimper. That’s how it goes.
This is a tough market. If you build crap, they just won’t come. And I’m sorry, but peddling the Vette Z06 as if it is fairly representative of the main is a bit like claiming that the pedigree of a Ferrari should have been reason enough to have bought a FIAT. (That was not a lost opportunity that I regret passing up.)
On the whole, American mainstream vehicles are also-rans in basic segments that American consumers want to buy. As noted above, if buying a compact or midsized car, just for starters, there is not much incentive to buy domestic.
Like it or not, some of the best domestics today are coming out of Marysville Ohio and Georgetown, Kentucky. They are built with international designs, assembled with US labor and US parts, and pay dividends to stockholders around the world. If that’s where the consumer wants to cast his or her ballot, let him. If Detroit wants a bigger piece of that action, they need to stop whining and start making their customers happy. Otherwise, let them follow FIAT and Yugo out the door, and give the winners their rightful due.
Great editorial, it exposes the bigotry and unfair bias against the big 2.8, but I argue that they still need to reconsider their offerings. One thing that bothers me with American design these days is how ’safe’ it is. There’s so much beancounting and pouring over the focus groups that even the most basic car configurations are considered risky.
For example, a friend of mine was recently looking for a small wagon. He used to drive Cherokees off road, but grew tired of that -so he wasn’t interested in a crossover or a tall wagon. That’s too bad for the big 2.8, since they’re all caught-up in a overlapping lineup of cute-utes and crossovers these days.
Which American automaker is producing a descent compact wagon? I recommended the Vibe (when was the last time you saw an ad for the Vibe?), but not the Caliber (fisher-price pig-ugly). The new 2008 Focus won’t be available with a hatch, at least not here anyway. At the end of the day, not knowing what their price-range was, my top 3 picks were the Volvo V50, Mazda3 and Suzuki SX4. At least 2 of the 3 are Ford products by extension, but that may change in the near future.
If the Big 2.8 are looking to expand their market share, they have to stop ignoring significant market segments, even if they’re perceived to be low-volume. Come out with a killer product and the market will find you. Offer innovative incentives (like class-leading warranties and guaranteed trade-in values, as other commentators stated) and you’ll move metal.
It just takes time for most people. The problem is not only that a lot of the American cars with reliability problems are still on the road. I rarely go a week without hearing someone at work or home complaining about a fuel pump dying on a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 27k on the clock, or some such nonsense (just the most recent example).
They’ve got to get out of the woods and stay there for a while before you see the popular opinion change. Look at how long it took Hyundai, and the lengths they had to go to (BIG warranty). They succeeded because they were consistent.
With the Big 2.8, I’m just not seeing that. The stats may say otherwise, but to me, a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee didn’t roll off the line that long ago, and I would expect more than 27k out of a fuel pump.
Don’t mention mustang GT’s. They are fatter & slower and have much higher depreciation & cost basically the same, new
Robstar,
I own a Mustang GT and I wouldn’t suggest one to someone looking for an EVO or an STI. Mustangs are fatter and slower, but a different kind of beast all together.
However $25k for a GT vs $33k for a STI isn’t “basically the same” If you get a loaded GT convertible, then yeah – but now you’re looking at a vehicle that is even further from an STi.
Oh, and the Impreza and the Mustang both get the same 5-star depreciation rating from ALG. I bought mine new because the used prices were so high.
Not to stray too off-topic: I do have a lingering anti-domestic bias. My Civic Si was the best vehicle I ever owned (at least on paper): ridiculously high residual value, good reliability, lots of features, great transmission, etc.
As good as my Civic was, I enjoy my Mustang more. If I stuck to my Japanese-brands-only policy, I would have missed out on a lot of fun.
The 80% statistic cuts both ways. 80% of domestic buyers wont consider imports either. IMO this is mostly just people avoiding complex decisions. If you limit yourself to whatever GM and Ford have to offer in a segment your decision is a lot easier. Same if you only want to look at Honda and Toyota.
Recently, friends found themselves in possession of more cars than they needed, so they had to choose which one to sell. They chose to keep a 1992 Honda with 190K miles on it over ‘99 Neon with 90K miles on it.
Their reason, “the Honda felt good to drive but the Neon felt like it was falling apart” and they had been paying repair bills on the Neon but not on the Honda. Their Honda still felt solid and was getting better fuel economy.
When my friends and neighbors stop telling me stories like this (never mind what I read on TTAC or other forums), I’ll be looking at Detroit.
Phil Ressler appears to have the far-too-usual mindset of the Detroit Fan Club… He assumes that import purchasers are making irrational decisions about what to buy based on whether or not a car is foreign or whatever and making decisions that are not justifiable. That’s certainly not the case with me. I’m not biased, as the article suggests, against articles of American manufacture. I work for an American manufacturer and we make really good stuff; we have product performance that is measurably superior in many ways than most, if not all of our competitors and we’re competitive on price. I know of other American manufacturers that are the same way.
I’m biased in favor of what has worked for me and against what hasn’t.
I no longer buy VWs because their vehicle didn’t hold up and, while I still LOVE Volvo 240s and 940s and I felt that I got very good value from them (if I had lots of money, I’d own one just because I like them), I have to admit that my Toyotas hold up better (lower maintenance costs, better long-term durability and the car holds its solid feel longer and better). I don’t plan to buy one as my basic transportation.
Factor all that in and you find that I’m biased against Ford, GM and Chrysler AND ANY OTHERS THAT DO NOT MEASURE UP and it’s their own damned fault. It wasn’t worth it to them to build good, reliable cars that held up well (Volvo was OK – Toyota’s just better) and service them properly when they didn’t hold up and so, they lost customers.
In contrast, Toyota and Honda have worked hard to creast vehicles with lasting value and are now reaping the rewards of retained customers who will pay a little extra for what they see as a really good value.
If you want to effect a total turnaround, I recommend you lobby for changes in tax laws that mean executive stock options are worthless unless the company does well long term (10 years), that short-term profits on stock trades are PUNITIVELY taxed and that long-term holding are dealt with generously. As it stands now, the stock markets are about making money on trades. We have to eliminate that mindset and make the stock markets the places for INVESTMENTS.
That might rid America’s boardrooms of the short-term thinking that got Detroit into this mess before the rest of our industries follow Detroit down the tubes.
Thank You.
I don’t think we’re looking at an Anti-American bias, but simply that people are looking for value and many American cars do not represent the kind of value they want. The XLR, in Corvette form, is an exceptional value; one trades some interior “luxury” for absolute class-leading performance when you compare to a Cayman or 911 and since the Corvette has not been subject to fire sale rebates, the depreciation is reasonable.
The Fusion is at the other end of the scale and is a high value American car, but is stuck with the general air of rebate malaise which is glued to virtually every regular Ford, Chevy or Dodge. When you oversupply the market, you cheapen your product in the eyes of the public. And while Honda markets the Accord as both a Honda and an Acura, there is significantly more brand differentiation there than between a Fusion and a Milan, or a Chevrolet and Pontiac.
In the end, what shows through for too many American cars is that the design team was under the direction of the accounting department.
@ Rollingwreck
4) Guaranteed trade-in price to offset catastrophic depreciation. Can’t do it? I’ll happily go over to the Honda dealer where I know the residuals will be high. Give me the reassurance that even if the car is a POS, it won’t be a financial bloodbath.
This is unnecessary. The market clearing price takes all information available into account, and residual values are available and therefore accounted for in initial sale prices. That is why Dometics and Korean make vehicles generally sell at lower prices than Japonese makes and why American and Korean manufacturers have to pile on the the incentives.
Get residuals up, need for incentive spending declines.
For all those that our proclaiming the superiority of non Detroit vehicles and how they will never go back, don’t you realize that THIS IS HOW YOU GOT BURNED THE LAST TIME? I still remember my first ride in a friend’s brand new 1977 Honda Accord. It was a fine automobile for its market and price point, and certainly like nothing else on the market at that time. And, I remember how confused I was…”this..this, is a JAPANESE car, how could it be so good, but, of course, if i bought one i’d have to explain it to my friends and family, how could i possibly face the derision….” And my next car was a 1980 Chevy Citation (as Dr. Phil might say, “how’d that work for ya…)
Lack of consideration of Detroit brands by domesticaraphobes not only hurts the domestic manufacturers (and may take one or more of them out before it’s all said and done) it hurts THEM because they are irrationally limiting your choices. Like they say in the financial world, ” past performance is no guarantee of future returns”. It’s true with cars too. Are Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. going to fall off the log. No, of course not, but their global aspirations are stretching them (more recalls, no 6-speed auto in the new Accord, etc.) and the domestics ARE catching up, and in some cases passing them.
All the domestics are asking for is for you to find your way into a showroom, and find out whether they have the vehicle that meets your needs, and get the facts about it vs. the competition. You may be surprised.
I did exactly that with a friend who is in the market for a small hatch/wagon. My recommendation: Volvo S30, at least until the Astra comes out. Can’t wrap my brain around a Caliber, and GM and Ford come up bupkus. If my friend were looking for a full size SUV or CUV, though, I expect the outcome would be different.
Sorry, but taking this XLR experience as representative is just silly. Merc vs. Caddy is only about the premium market, and I don’t think anyone can argue that Detroit forfeited that market long ago. Caddy is clawing its way back, slowly, but GM’s even managing to screw that up by pushing out too much product and forcing themselves to discount heavily, just like they always do. As for Ford and Crysler, do they even make premium automobiles anymore? I hadn’t noticed.
Ford, GM and Chrysler are low- to mid-market car manufacturers, and that is where they compete for the forseeable future.
quasimondo,
It is precisely because the Big 3 will not consider simple solutions to complex problems that they find themselves in their current situation.
THE CONSUMER DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR COMPLEX PROBLEM.
The consumer has their own complex problems to deal with, and they don’t need more complex problems inherent in buying goods that the market deems sub-par (perception is reality in a market environment, get over it)
All the domestics are asking for is for you to find your way into a showroom, and find out whether they have the vehicle that meets your needs, and get the facts about it vs. the competition. You may be surprised.
As Mike Karesh found out on TrueDelta.com, import intenders do more research online before buying. Why bother wasting valuable time going into a showroom when you can start excluding cars over the Internet? Here are links to the crash test results of the pre-CSV GM minivans, I only knew about the latter at the time I was minivan shopping:
EuroNCAP offset crash test of the Opel Sintra, with video:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/opel_vauxhall_sintra_1999/62.aspx
GM withdrew the Sintra from EU market, whose sales were already flagging, after these results came out. Americans were blessed with the design for another 5 years, only to be replaced by TTAC’s inaugural TWAT.
IIHS offset crash test of the Pontiac Trans Sport:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=67
Domestic turnaround is only one part of the equation…the competition would have to suck – and I don’t know if that’s happening quickly enough.
If all things were equal, and GM made a car like the Lexus model we bought, with a dealership experience like Lexus, resale like Lexus, everything is as good as Lexus, price…EVERYTHING is the same – I still buy the Lexus.
(I picked Lexus and GM as examples, but feel free to replace them with your favorite domestic and import brands.)
GM has f–ked me over (and others, obviously) repeatedly.
So in the scenario above my incentive to purchase the GM over the Lexus is…uh, there is none. Two brands, all things equal, one brand has burned you and everyone you know over and over. What would possess someone to spend money with that company in that scenario?
So domestics can’t be “as good as” the competition. They have to be better. For a while. Maybe a long while. Then and ONLY then would it appear on my serious shopping list. And that’s not a guaranteed sale, but at least I’ll consider it seriously.
I understand what the SL guy meant when he said “But nobody would understand if I bought a Cadillac.” The brand is part of the problem. Like I said in some other thread, for everyone I know, domestics == cheap. And there’s no easy fix to the problem.
It’s not just styling, quality or materials. It’s the whole experience. The dealer showroom, the customer support line, heck, even the website. It’s hard to separate the different aspects of brand perception, each element feeds off the other.
What does it mean, when import salesmen walk up with an air of complacent confidence, knowing I’ll buy their cars, when the domestic salesmen are fatalistically cynical, half-expecting me to walk off at any time?
What does it mean, when Ford Edge ads claim to be quieter than Lexus, then I check online and find their claims aren’t on the level?
What does it mean, when the Big 2.8 will, almost at random, decide to give employee discounts to everyone?
This is branding. The Big 2.8 have dug this hole with poor quality, and brand perception starts and ends with quality. But they shouldn’t expect that just because they can build some examples of decent cars, that magically all is forgiven. It’s great that some of their cars are good. “We’re just as good, honest!” is not a reason to switch.
I don’t respect domestics. Stone me – I’m an import bigot. The styling makes me laugh. Having Jill Wagner ambush ads at all hours of the day makes me laugh. If you want respect, act like you deserve it.
If Detroit wants to convert me, they should start with the Corvette. The Corvette Z06 is a great-looking car with good handling. It’s an unbeatable value. The Corvette has an instant credibility that requires no explanation. They stayed true to the original styling, while continually refining it and putting more muscle under the hood. But I live in a metro area, so I won’t be getting one anytime soon. If they could convert some of that magic to a four-door saloon, with the quality to match, I’d buy it. For now, the only domestic I’ll consider is a Mazda 3/6. It’s almost a domestic.
This is a great article and the comments afterwards make it even better.
Forget about the XLR V-series, I’m sure the new Malibu will be better than the Camry inside and out. The perception gap will keep consumers away, not to mention that GM’s lineup is not competitive at every price point. Until the incentives roll in. And the cycle of “buy Detroit because they are a great value” comes in.
I try to recommend winners like the Aura, Corvette, Fusion, etc to my friends, but most everyone looks at me like I’m nuts.
And then they’ll tell you a horror story about their parents and their Diesel Oldsmobile, Taurus head gaskets or Chrysler transmission woes: its human nature not to make the same mistake twice, especially when tens of thousands of dollars are on the line.
Detroit can fix it, but it needs time. I hope they can turn it around before the creditors demand blood.
Where does this “unfair” meme come from? Am I supposed to play the game “fairly” by only paying attention to the machine and forgetting the infrastructure like dealers and parts availability? That’s just not in the cards. If I have a ration of crap from a dealer I might put it down to perversity, but if five or six dealers (GM) treat me badly I begin looking upward to the mother ship.
Sorry, Detroit, until you match Subaru in every point of the ownership experience, my money goes to them. Not “fair”? Take a do-over when you boned me on my Pontiac 6000’s transmission (failed within warranty but fobbed off until that was done), -then- we’ll talk.
Captain Tungsten wrote: “All the domestics are asking for is for you to find your way into a showroom, and find out whether they have the vehicle that meets your needs, and get the facts about it vs. the competition. You may be surprised.”
Surprises are exactly what I got from Ford. I do not want any more surprises. When I go on a driving vacation, I want to return on the day I planned driving the same vehicle that I was driving when the vacation started and without spending any time in dealership waiting rooms along the way.
Bob Lutz (or whomever) can tell me that GM (or FoMoCo or whatever) is just as good as Toyota but I’ll wait for independent verification, thank you.
I perused the first few comments to see how others responded to this editorial. At first blush it appears I’m not on the same page although it could be semantics.
At least for me, and I’m quite sure for quite a few people this isn’t just a bias. This is the result of an earned reputation. The General and it’s domestic cohorts foisted automotive crap on the American consumer for years culminating, IMO in the early 80’s. If you were unlucky enough to have a purchased a Caddy or virtually any other domestic brand during these times you probably know what I’m talking about.
The bias you see now is earned. They will need many years of making good product to even come close to recapturing lost market.
I will believe that they are making a comeback when one of them has the gonads to stand up and admit it, apologize for it, and thank Toyota et al for forcing them to be better.
I have a suggestion for TTAC.
Get hold of 3 or 5 year-old examples of imports and domestics, and do a comparison.
3 year old Malibu vs. Camry vs. Accord vs. Altima
LeSabre vs. Avalon
Cobalt vs. Civic vs. Corolla
SL vs. XLR
Stand ‘em up and shoot it out. Let’s see how the interiors, exteriors, drivetrains, and accessories have held up in real-time, real world situations. Solicit the input of TTAC’s readers who probably own the cars. Add resale value into the mix to see what the real cost of ownership has been.
My household is Honda-only. We didn’t even consider a domestive when I bought my Acura TL, not when we bought our new Pilot in April. Believe me, we really wanted to look, but there were no comparable domestics.
When we bought the Pilot, we looked at the Acadia, but the price was far higher, and the quality wasn’t there. Everything seemed designed to last until the warranty ran out. My wife wasn’t willing to be the test fleet for GM. She was, however, willing to look at a new Hyundai Vreacruz, even though it’s also a new vehicle.
Think about that for a minute. We had more confidence in a Korean car than an American car. It’s astonishing that it’s come to this, but reality is a tough thing. The greatest manufacturing companies the world has ever known are now viewed as inferior to a Korean company that has about a 3 year history of competitive cars.
This debate goes to the heart of why the domestics are dying. “Perception Gap” is merely the term we use to describe the fact that for many of us, domestics=junk.
I really wish I could buy American. I want to support our domestic industries and the jobs of my fellow Americans. But I’m not going to do it when the product is inferior, or when the resale value is going to cost me thousands of dollars down the road.