Comments on: Hyundai Sonata Wades Into Hybrid Price War

By: y2kdcar

y2kdcar — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:54:45 +0000

f8 :
A car with a tiny sub-10 hp electric engine that provides marginal assist is technically a “hybrid”. That doesn’t make it competitive versus actual hybrids though, it just gives you a nice shiny badge and an overwhelming sense of moral superiority. Let’s get some technical details on this first – we have yet to see any advanced hybrids from manufacturers other than Toyota or Honda.

Or Ford. The hybrid powertrain in the Escape and Mariner, which reportedly will soon appear in the Fusion and Milan, is every bit as advanced as the one in the Toyota Prius. The GM two-mode system in the big SUVs is also a full hybrid system — quite different from the mild hybrid engine assist system GM offers in the Malibu and the Aura.

By: John Horner

John Horner — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:36:48 +0000

I highly doubt Honda will introduce a “loss-leader” hybrid. They have shown great skill at relentless productivity improvement. By the time the new Honda Hybrid comes out, Honda will have been selling hybrids for 10 years. Think how much the price:performance ratio of laptop computers has improved over that same time span. Honda will certainly make more money on their new hybrid than Detroit is making on pick-em-ups these days!

By: CommanderFish

CommanderFish — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 07:52:52 +0000

So what does that make the Tahoe, Durango, and others, F8? Chopped liver?

I agree that they’re idiotic to pair the thing with gigantic V8’s, but the Two-Mode Hybrid system GM and Chrysler have put together does work, we have just yet to see a practical application of it in cars. Hybrid buses based off the Two-Mode, however, have been around for a few years already.

There are rumors about a FWD version of the Two-Mode being put in the Vue and later the Caravan/Town and Country. We’ll get a better idea of how the system stacks up then.

By: f8

f8 — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:45:54 +0000

A car with a tiny sub-10 hp electric engine that provides marginal assist is technically a “hybrid”. That doesn’t make it competitive versus actual hybrids though, it just gives you a nice shiny badge and an overwhelming sense of moral superiority. Let’s get some technical details on this first – we have yet to see any advanced hybrids from manufacturers other than Toyota or Honda.

By: shaker

shaker — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:20:13 +0000

“Considering the forthcoming Honda hybrid is set to be priced several thousand dollars less than the industry-standard Toyota Prius, Hyundai’s pressed to deliver the hybrid Sonata at an even lower price point.”

That statement is rife for misinterpretation; The Sonata Hybrid (especially if it utilizes Li-Ion tech) would possibly undercut the mid-trim Prius, or Camry Hybrid, but not the “loss-leader” Honda.

That said, I wonder if it will be a BAS system like the GM offerings, but with better batteries…

By: Chris Haak

Chris Haak — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:35:48 +0000

@craiggbear:

Funny stuff – I didn’t even think about the Smart car (which annoyingly doesn’t have a capitalized name) when I wrote that sentence.

I just did a little digging online, and sites like LLN are saying that the Honda dedicated hybrid model IS likely to be called Insight. But yeah, the original Insight was discontinued a while ago.

By: kazoomaloo

kazoomaloo — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:10:00 +0000

This thing’ll come in under the Honda Hybrid when the Cruze returns a consistent 45 mpg.

By: Orian

Orian — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:07:06 +0000

I agree – I don’t see how it could undercut the smaller hybrids. It could undercut the Camry hybrid for sure, but I just don’t see it happening against the smaller versions.

By: craiggbear

craiggbear — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:57:50 +0000

ChrisHaak, Honda made the Insight Hybrid a decade ago – not sure if it’s been discontinued – but it is a good name. But it’s not Smart – that belongs to Mercedes and Swatch ;) The car was featured in a few movies like “Be cool”.

By: davey49

davey49 — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:32:55 +0000

I’m guessing that instead of the Li-Ion batteries letting the Sonata run longer on electric power and getting better fuel mileage say compared to the Camry Hybrid it will have the same range/fuel mileage as the Camry but since the battery pack can be physically smaller that trunk space will be improved. A big problem with the Camry Hybrid is that the trunk space is severely hampered by the battery pack.

By: Chris Haak

Chris Haak — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:28:57 +0000

Honestly, I don’t see how they could undercut the new Honda hybrid (is it true they’re calling it the Insight? If so, that’s smart.) The Honda is supposed to be around $18,000; the cheapest possible Sonata is $18,995 before its $2,000 rebate, and that has cloth seats, a manual transmission, and manual a/c. Unless they plan to take a huge loss per unit to build volume, those batteries and the motors, electronics, etc. will have to at least add a couple thousand to the base car’s price, not to mention the fact that a hybrid buyer probably doesn’t want the stripped model.

I’d expect it to instead be priced closer to the Malibu Hybrid (which I agree with those above, is lame), slightly below the Camry Hybrid.

By: rockit

rockit — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:02:57 +0000

“Half baked how exactly?

When I think of half baked hybrids I think of GM’s Malibu or Aura hybrids. Those truly are half-baked.”

Well those are half baked without question…..

By: Orian

Orian — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:51:34 +0000

Half baked how exactly?

When I think of half baked hybrids I think of GM’s Malibu or Aura hybrids. Those truly are half-baked.

By: rockit

rockit — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:47:28 +0000

Hyundai fanboys rejoice! Half baked hybrids for all!