Self-righteous SUV driver; hybrid is just so hard to understand isn’t it??

Move closer to where you work?? You would then agree with the central premise of this film;

End Of Suburbia and it’s sequel Escape from Suburbia.

I did, and now my 240hp SUV burns less gas per year than the average goofy golf cart. But that’s just me… more concerned about the environment than in gadgetry masquerading as self-righteousness.

geeber: “I looked at a hybrid Civic yesterday at the local Honda dealer. The sticker price for the Civic Hybrid is $5,000 more than a comparably equipped regular Civic.”

The Civic hybrid, while not a bad car, certainly isn’t one of the better hybrid purchases. Besides the high premium, it’s not a particularly good hybrid in terms of performance, either. A recent Edmunds road test on the latest 2009 version confirmed that it is one of the slowest vehicles currently available (0-60 of around 13.5 seconds), making the Prius (3 seconds faster) look like a veritable rocket-sled in comparison.

In essence, you really have to want a Civic hybrid badly since you’ll pay one of the highest premiums to get one of the slowest cars currently in production. It is a much better example than the Prius for those who decry hybrids as making no economic sense.

Still though I agree. Unless you drive a lot, you likely wont achieve payback on the extra.

Still I might pay that extra if they made the right hybrid (like and Insight with manual transmission).

I would like have super long cruising range for long trips, but heck just build me a regular non-hybrid insight with a decent size fuel tank and decent tall geared manual.

The things I value most actually have nothing to do with hybrid: Long cruising range, good highway mileage, aerodynamic and efficient design(low RPM in top gear).

But it seems like you have to get a hybrid before they will give you those things.

He’s only following the lead of those who were originally talking about Global Warming, who changed the subject to “climate change” because the earth’s climate isn’t acting the way that they said it would.

rudiger: While there are certainly a few that would buy a Prius to trumpet their self-righteous ‘frugal’ consumption (the opposite of the usual conspicuous consumption of someone driving, say, a Hummer), most Prius’ owners’ ’statement’ is one of willing to spend a little more on a high mpg vehicle as a hedge against future high gas prices (and maybe a little of being environmentally conscious).

I looked at a hybrid Civic yesterday at the local Honda dealer. The sticker price for the Civic Hybrid is $5,000 more than a comparably equipped regular Civic.

Sorry, but $5,000 buys a lot of gas, even at $4 a gallon, and it represents a lot more than “a little more” when it comes to purchase price for a new car. At least, for us…

it’s not a pie in the sky… CNG use is growing worldwide

It’s true it’s growing, for bus transport particularly where the weight penalty is not as significant.

CNG suffers slightly more problems than LPG. To create CNG, you have to compress and COOL it massively which is quite energy intensive. You also end up with a very heavy high pressure cylinder. CNG while plentiful in many areas (like Australia), is not “spare” in the USA (for example), your entire supply is sold into electricity generation.

Toyota are looking at it. I believe they showed a Camry with largish cylinder for about 100 mile range. They say that it’s not compelling and they likely won’t be pursuing it. BMW have ceased their program as have Renault.

Fleet use of CNG vehicles is done cost effectively.

Not only… there are incentives in some countries (which show the biggest grow) for the use of CNG in passenger cars

Fleet use of CNG vehicles is done cost effectively.

I don’t see Hybrids taking over except in niches. Americans dislike golf carts and like powerful engines.

And no, it’s not a pie in the sky… CNG use is growing worldwide.

I’d be willing to bet that a tangible decrease in maintenance costs could be realized in high stop-and-go usage, as the EM/battery absorbs, then supplies the highest stress parts of vehicle operation, namely acceleration/deceleration.

No need to bet, those numbers are in! You’re right and for the reasons you mention.

It’s also likely that the ICE part of the hybrid system can be made slightly lighter due to the lower than observed stresses too. That has a direct effect again in reduced weight or the battery carrying capability of the hybrid vehicle.

Someone may know (Bertel?), but either DHL (or at least one of the European postal companies) is about to embark on hybrid pickup/delivery vans, and have the fleet changed by 2015.

People live in such a “bubble” in this country, still in denial that we’re one terrorist act away from sitting in lines at gas stations, even getting into fist fights over gasoline. Hybrids aren’t a “cure-all” but if the “juice” suddenly gets turned off, hybrid owners will be hated/envied even more by those who think that the status quo will continue.

I hope that the next administration makes a huge investment in hybrid vehicles, especially those Postal Service vehicles that make HUNDREDS of stops per day – hell, they could even give the contract to the Big-”3″ – a-la WWII and the “jeep”. The fuel savings would not be great with gas @ <$2/gal, but a great insurance policy against the inevtable rise to come. I’d be willing to bet that a tangible decrease in maintenance costs could be realized in high stop-and-go usage, as the EM/battery absorbs, then supplies the highest stress parts of vehicle operation, namely acceleration/deceleration.

carsinamerica: “The idea of buying a Prius strictly to make a “statement” is one that can only appeal to the wealthy, who can throw money away on statements.”

All cars make a statement about their owners in the sense that the owner had to make a decision to buy that particular vehicle based on some logic. It’s just that many misconstrue the statement of a Prius’ owner, usually for their own personal agenda.

While there are certainly a few that would buy a Prius to trumpet their self-righteous ‘frugal’ consumption (the opposite of the usual conspicuous consumption of someone driving, say, a Hummer), most Prius’ owners’ ’statement’ is one of willing to spend a little more on a high mpg vehicle as a hedge against future high gas prices (and maybe a little of being environmentally conscious). It makes it easy with the Prius due to Toyota doing a superb job of efficiently packaging the vehicle, even without the hybrid system. It’s been rumored that Toyota even considered marketing a non-hybrid Prius at a reduced price.

That’s really the way to look at the Prius: it’s an efficiently designed vehicle that just happens to have an auxillary propulsion system. Absent the extra batteries (and cost), the Prius would have sold well, regardless, since the car is basically just a hatchback Camry.

climate change

So now you’re talking about the changing climate rather than Global Warming??? Very subtle.

Do you honestly believe “carbon taxes” have anything to do with saving the planet?

I feel another conspiracy theory coming…..

Yes and no. It doesn’t have to be expensive to stop wasting fossil fuel energy, but wasting energy won’t stop while business as usual is cheap.

Maybe the rest of the USA could learn from;

Sustainability in Action

You might manage to keep some industries local rather than handing everything over to the Chinese or India.

some other REAL technology

So hybrids are an IMAGINARY solution?

It’s a perfectly logical and simple way to take otherwise wasted energy from braking and use it for the inefficient ICE acceleration phase. Why is that difficult to understand?

TNT launches Australia’s first hybrid truck fleet

These Hino trucks have proven to dramatically more fuel efficient and more reliable than their non-hybrid counterparts. Sounds like a better mousetrap rather than a golf cart.

Yes, I need to disclaim that our company was involved, and NO they were not bought as fashion accessories.

Referring to Hybrids as “goofy golf carts” for a “manufactured crisis”, I believe pretty well hangs you out there with the redneck, truck driving, aliening loving, loonies.”

PeteMoran, congratulations on getting it completely wrong. I am an educated person with a twenty-year history of driving fuel efficient cars… long before Al Gore made it a religion. By contributing nothing to this debate except calling me a redneck and linking me to Exxon, you only prove my point about the dangers of drinking the Kool Aid.

Science did not discover climate change in the last five years; it has been going on ever since there was a climate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change. If you read beyond the front page headlines there is NO legitimate scientific consensus on human causes and cures, indeed many scientists still believe that another ice age is coming. Laugh at them if you want; it just makes you a redneck too.

What has changed in the last five years is that climate change has become trendy, especially among left-leaning folks who were never comfortable with capitalism and would like to spread some of the wealth around. Do you honestly believe “carbon taxes” have anything to do with saving the planet?

I poke fun at goofy golf carts because they are a complicated, low-tech solution looking for a problem, and because they ARE fashion accessories: http://www.allabouthybridcars.com/hollywood-hybrids.htm. When someone develops a marketable car that runs on solar power, discarded banana peels or some other REAL technology, and nobody cares because gas is cheap at the time, I will be the first in line to buy it. But I will not waste my money on a hybrid car.

The first is that would-be buyers, who tend to be more literate and informed than average, are waiting for information on the 2010 Prius and on the availability of the 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid.

The second is that the dealers have not necessarily reduced their inflated prices. Our local Toyota dealer still has 28,000 price tag on a couple two year old Priuses on the lot. So they’re not too desperate.

Is Exxon evil?

Yes.

SOME Prius drivers trash drivers of more petrol-hungry cars. Not all, and probably not even most, I’d suspect. I know several Prius owners, and I’ve never heard them get on a high horse about moral superiority. Celebrities are a different story, but I don’t care what they say, anyway. Don’t be overbroad — it’s no more valid to excoriate Prius drivers for being arrogant than it is to say that all pickup truck drivers are rednecks. The idea of buying a Prius strictly to make a “statement” is one that can only appeal to the wealthy, who can throw money away on statements. To other people, practical considerations are more important, even if emissions reduction is one consideration.

I do agree, though, that the Prius is expensive. I will be very interested to see how Honda prices and equips the Insight. I’ve heard some crazy-low price estimates. We’ll find out at NAIAS, I suppose.

If they lived in another century they would have flipped out over the introduction of the automobile, or electricity or airplanes.

There currently isn’t a hybrid for me, but that doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the technology and it may come as a shock, but most people aren’t looking for “exciting” cars, they are looking for appliance cars.

My only concern right now is they should be making all cars more aerodynamic and efficient, not just hybrids. But hybrids are also a good transition to other electric drive technologies.

So sure build more hybrids, if you don’t like them it is nothing to raise your blood pressure over, just don’t buy one. No need to get mad and insult hybrid buyers, they may make sense to a lot of people.

Is Exxon evil?

Shall I assume that you worship at the Church of Global Warming, where dissent is not tolerated?

Yes please. Dissent for it’s own sake is not tolerated, the scientific question, if not already, is pretty clearly answered. If you wish to participate in the “dissent because we can” crowd, encouraged by upstanding organizations like Exxon, feel free.

Referring to Hybrids as “goofy golf carts” for a “manufactured crisis”, I believe pretty well hangs you out there with the redneck, truck driving, aliening loving, loonies.

You don’t have to “believe” in Global Warming for sensible and achievable energy conservation to be a wise choice.

This isn’t about Toyota — actually I can see a scenario where the Prius is the only hybrid left on the US market, just because it’s a Toyota and they have done their homework very well. Toyota will become like VW has with their diesels, the premier, then the only place that the tech is available because they built the market, understand it very well and are trusted.

Notice what vehicle is in the clip. A Saturn Vue. If you have x amount of precious dollars in these hard times and you need a dead nuts reliable transport that can’t cost you a penny more than what you’ve budgeted, would you trust a GM hybrid? How about a brand new Ford, i.e., anything but an Escape? Dicey, dicey proposition methinks, especially at <$2/gal. gas.

Furthermore, the detractors the Prius, in particular, fail to notice that the overall package is quite good. The Prius is roomier than a Corolla, but with a smaller footprint than a Camry, and has a spacious boot, to boot. It’s also quite well-equipped. It’s not an exciting car, but it’s practical, and it’s economical.

At ZoomZoom:

Further and farther are very similar. Generally, one can use either to indicate distance. Some scribes prefer to use “further” for metaphorical distance, as in the following: “The further he looked into the future, the murkier the predictions became.” Conversely, they use “farther” for distances, like this: “My car is parked farther from the mall than yours is.” In other words, farther is the superlative form of far, and further is for distances that aren’t physically measured. Also, you should use “further” exclusively if you mean “additional”, as in this case: “Further research is required.” In your example, further might be better (since we aren’t talking about a fixed physical distance), but farther would probably work, too.

As for i.e. and e.g., everyone confuses them. Use “i.e.” to mean “in other words, like this: “He immediately did a J-turn (i.e., he accelerated in reverse, cranked the wheel suddenly, and accelerated forward).” Use “e.g.” to give examples, like this: “Some supercars (e.g., the Pagani Zonda and the Spyker C8) still use traditional manual transmissions.” If you’ve got a list of examples, ALWAYS use e.g. In your example, use i.e. Whichever one you use, always follow it with a comma, and use periods (i.e., don’t write “ie he likes fish”).

Of course, decades later, computers are now interwoven into the fabric of virtually every facet of daily life and, ironically, offers hybrid naysayers the same ability to deny hybrid technology as an inevitability in the same way on a vastly greater scale due to the internet which was made possible by…computers…