Toyota Camry

Toyota Camry

Given a buyer in Indianapolis what is the actual destination charge for a Prius shipped from a factory on the island vs. a Camry from Ohio?

Thanks for the laugh.

Actually, your source says it was “profitable in its first generation”, further saying “The car went on sale in 1997 and the second generation was introduced in 2003.”

Now, nobody outside Toyota seems to believe them, but that is what they claim.

The idea that Toyota would sell more than a million money-losers, over the period of a decade is laughable. Even the notion that Ford is stamping out 25,000 dead losses a year, year after year, is well within the realm of an “extraordinary claim”.

Basically, some people believe the world is flat. In the absence of any supporting evidence, do we give their crazy ideas much serious consideration? I think a better model is that those who think there is no profit in hybrids are simply guilt-ridden SUV owners, perhaps suffering from a very delayed case of buyers remorse.

“What if we put our dual mode hybrid for garbage trucks inside the big SUVs?”
“Who said that?” Bob whips around.
A beat of silence. They’re all seated in Bob Lutz’ office, trying to see one another around the V-16 engine he’s using as a letter weight.
“I did. We’ve got these monster hybrid drivetrains ready to go, and they’re too expensive for the city governments we thought would buy ‘em, why don’t we just plonk ‘em inside the big SUVs and trucks?”
“Trucks too, that’s smart. That’s really smart. How does that parse with rich people don’t care about the price of gas?”
“They’d feel they’re doing both the environment and Exxon a favor, I guess.”
“Go for it, this is brilliant.”

Toyota probably didn’t have their hybrid program profitable until 2007.

Toyota claims that the Prius was profitable starting with the last model year of the previous generation (Model Year 2003).

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aJw5qY8pjIh8&refer=home

Now, nobody outside Toyota seems to believe them, but that is what they claim.

No, it’s not.

The Prius and the Insight were unprecedented but that was eight years ago. Hybrid tech is now an accepted part of the marketplace. If GM isn’t selling them, it’s either for lack of trying or lack of customer interest.

Ford’s original battery contract was for 25,000 units per year. That was it. To get additional batteries from a Toyota-controlled supplier when Toyota itself couldn’t procure enough batteries would be prohibitively expensive. Ford would also have to make a trade off between building basically break even (or worse, depending on component cost) units or more profitable units of the regular line-up. Ford’s in no position to be losing money on something they CAN actually control when they’re losing money on so many other things they can’t effectively control.

Just to be clear, Ford isn’t alone in losing money on its initial hybrid program. Toyota probably didn’t have their hybrid program profitable until 2007. It’s not clear if Honda even does yet, and they sell about double the units in the U.S. that Ford does and have been the hybrid business even longer.

GM’s hybrids are failing for two reasons. The first is because they aren’t stocked anywhere. The second is that people are making real changes in their buying habits. It’s not just about ditching the gas guzzler. It’s about ditching the vehicle that you DON’T NEED! Very few people actually need a Tahoe. Those that need similar capability to this Tahoe Hybrid can hop into a Sienna, Odyssey, Flex or even GM Lambda and get similar gas mileage for tens of thousands less with only slightly reduced towing. And it isn’t a green statement because you’re still in a big freakin’ vehicle! No one will mistake this for a Prius!

So GM clearly saw the possibility of gas prices rising further and people becoming mpg-conscious. And what did they do? Build a slightly more efficient behemoth, of which they will never sell enough to recoup the development cost. Nice.

One great thing that has happened in the “fuel crisis” is the the Detroit automakers are finally forced to let go of Trucks and SUVs and focus on building competitive cars again. There was a point there, around the time the SSR came out that I thought the next Vette would have a bed in it. Thank goodness for high gas prices.

Why spend $55K to get 22mpg when you could spend $35K to get 22mpg? The Acadia holds, nominally, the same number of passengers (probably not as comfortably but how often is the third seat going to be used by fullsize adults? Or used at all?) and tows just 1K lbs less.

Why bother with the big hybrids? This must be the Mother of All Marketing Mistakes.

I’d buy one if it were cheap enough.

Lets see according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov the 2008 Prius gets 46 to the 2008 Escape Hybrid getting 32. For comparison the Camry Hybrid is 34 and the Matrix is 27.

Ford Escape $28,140 vs Prius $22,160. So Either the price has to drop or there has to be cash on the hood to the tune of $12,000 or there abouts for me to look at the Escape Hybrid seriously.

I don’t like SUVs but I’d seriously drive an Escape Hybrid if I could get one cheaper than a Matrix.

If that means no profit for Ford I guess that means they don’t sell them in large numbers…