Hybrid cars have had one of the biggest impacts on the automotive paradigm since front wheel-drive became popular. Sadly, not everyone can accept change gracefully. Exhibit one: Hawaii-based auto-journo Bill Maloney. In last months autowriters.com newsletter, Maloney's "The Hmmm About Hybrids," purports to show (in one non-stop "sic") that "market researchers and their soothsayers have been busy blowing holes in the rationale (and high pricing) for (sic) many popular hybrid cars… they even provide stats." And with claims like that, they probably should, right? "Would you believe a big Chevy Tahoe SUV has a lower energy cost-per-mile than a small import hybrid [question mark]," wonders Maloney. Yes, it's the infamous CNW Research "Dust to Dust" study, thoroughly debunked here and here and elsewhere. Never mind. Maloney doesn't want to analyze hybrids– he wants to demonize their buyers. "A car is no longer a car when it's a hybrid. It's a statement. There are high visibility dudes who like to drive statements. Cameron Diaz, Ed Begley, Jar (sic? It's so hard to tell), and the two guys who own Google, who (sic) the CNW study says quote 'don't know "dick" about the environment.' These are people of the conspicuous consumption class who are into whole foods, wild oats/sprouts and keep Trader Joes extremely profitable. They don't drink Jim Beam and prefer Grey Goose and of course their home away from home is Starbucks and its designer coffee. Researchers say these folks are willing to pay to display their moral superiority and virtue." As opposed to Maloney, who needs only one deeply-flawed study, a few hundred words (and by the looks of things, a few tumblers of Jim Beam) to display his own self-satisfied derision for anyone who buys a Prius. Well played, sir.
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I thought they were a statement? the most environmentally friendly car is the one you’ve got right now.
/dons flame proof pants
I agree. Pass me those flame proof duds.
You know what, I’m getting really tired of the “Starbucks” slur as some sort of anti-intellectual criticism. Like getting your coffee at McDonalds or Dunkin’ Donuts is some kind of badge of honour. Please.
It’s a sad comment on society when one of the most common slurs thrown is to be a member of the “intelligensia”. When did it become a detriment to be smart, well-spoken or cause-concerned? Worse, when did conspicuous overconsumption and stupidity-and-ignorance masking as down-home-forthrightness become a _virtue_?
Look, I drive a Saab used; can’t afford a new Prius). I vote left-wing. I buy coffee at Starbucks (largest buyer of ethical coffee in the world; ne of the few companies that doesn’t screw it’s part-time staff, etc, etc) when I can’t get it at a good independent, I have a university education, recycle and compost, wear turtlenecks and birkenstocks, support gay marriage and try to be green and humanitarian when I can…
…but according to this prevailing attitude, I’m somehow worse, morally, than, well, there’s a litany of stereotypes I could throw out there, but I’ll leave it at “Good Ol’ Boy/Bloke” and let you fill in the rest. It doesn’t help that this sort of attitude is usually just an excuse for consumption, and that hacks like Maloney (Bob Lutz is another notable puveyor of this kind of schlock) are using the “Good Ol’ Boy” image to hawk their wares.
Sorry, but this ticks me off. Personal pet peeve. I’ll calm down now.
If dude had been making the argument that Priora are bought mainly for their image, that would be one thing. I’d even agree to the extent that most car-buying decisions take image into account. But his recycling of that horrendous “Dust to Dust” report to make it look like Prius ownership is somehow “worse for the environment” than say, Tahoe ownership is just flat wrong. Taken with his grotesque stereotyping of hybrid owners (couldn’t squeeze “latte-sipping” in there?), it shows an ugly, knee-jerk response to inevitable (sorry) change.
Besides, I hardly see the difference between someone today upgrading their Camry to a hybrid and, say, someone in 1968 ordering their Charger in R/T trim. Strictly speaking, neither makes “economic sense,” but they both speak to the priorities/values of their times. Why judge one choice, while mythologizing the other?
People choose cars for the styling, the color, the size of the tires, etc. They even pay more money for some of these attributes, which are also not cost-effective. As the previous posters have noted, a new car is typically not cost-effective at all.
So here’s the thing: choosing a hybrid is as valid as paying more for speed, handling, big-@ss tires, or a navigation system. Deal with it. The fact is, if you are going to buy a new car, then, for most people, a hybrid offers them the chance to spend your money on engineering rather than sending it into the oil market (and maybe, if they drive for long enough, saving money). That has value to many people (obviously). Get over it.
Jokers like this auto-writer who turn the hybrid issue into fodder for the culture wars need to get their panties out of a bunch and move on. The market is speaking, if you are willing to listen.
I guess this fellow is proud of the fact that he shaves with a sharpened stone.
“the most environmentally friendly car is the one you’ve got right now.” – DrBrian
I’m getting kind of tired of this… It’s more or less true but it’s also irrelevant. We will all eventually replace the one we have right now. When we’re comparing what’s offered for sale NEW, this presupposes a decision to buy NEW.
“So buy used…” eventually we run out of used cars. Someone must buy a new one. When they do, I’d like them to decide to pull a new energy-efficient car into the marketplace. When I do buy a new car, I will pull a new energy-efficient car into the marketplace and that will encourage the production of additional energy-efficient cars.
By the way, I shop at Starbucks. They offer excellent benefits to their workers and buy fair trade coffee. And their coffee is excellent. I buy my beans there. When guests come over, they remark on how good my coffee is.
As for any Starbucks-Leftists-Prius connection… I’ve seen an Insight parked in front of the one I frequent, once, and, routinely, Priora but bumper stickers are pretty rare on them. Quite a few Republicans pull their “W-04″-emblazoned Yukaburbahobelades or Explorigators up in front of it, too. And often leave the engines running while they’re inside.
Why does this guy remind me of Bagdad Bob? I guess some people will have a crude awakening when they finally wake up…
It all boils down to how long products that do not match buyers needs can survive. Other countries have cars that provide much higher fuel economy for those customers’ lifestyles require that. The corporate overlords here in the US have fought this tooth and nail since the Oil Embargo of the 70’s. We are now saddled with huge vehicles that we can’t afford to fuel up, or small vehicles that cannot accommodate over a family of 4.US made TV sets went the way of the dinosaur years ago. The only viable part of the US TV industry are some venerable brand names (Magnavox, Zenith, Sylvania). Maybe in 5 years when the US auto industry has gone down the same path, TATA motors will re-introduce us to Belvedere’s, Fairlanes, Biscaynes, etc. Hybrids are at best a temporary fix for our woefully low CAFE standards, which will come full circle when these “green” vehicles need battery packs replaced and the recycling infrastructure will miraculously be non-existent.
A more realistic fix would be to import the more fuel efficient traditional vehicles available in other markets.
I could have not said it better myself psarhjinian. Great post.
When I pay nearly $5 for a triple venti hazelnut cappucino once a week, it is because it is the best triple venti hazelnut cappucino. Maybe if I bought a hybrid, I could afford more good caffiene, stay awake at work, and be a more productive member of society. Then again, I will probably stick with my 12yr-old Miata(summer) and 11yr-old S-10(winter), eat the $120/week for gas(120 mile round trip commute), drink 25-cent black coffee from the pot in the lab downstairs(I think they may add something special), and get in a good nap at my desk in the afternoon.
BTW: I am a conservative (not Republican, there is a difference) WASP. True conservatives like to hoard their money and will let other’s hoard their own money as well.
Hm, I never found the hybrids particular good at the gas mileage/$ ratio.
Pretty much anything human powered is better. Scooters/mopeds/motorcycles (usually) are better.
Prius is good “for a car”, and that is only compared to “typical” cars. It still sucks compared to an Honda Insight (I almost bought one but couldn’t find stock & then they stopped being produced shortly after I started looking)and some diesels (although diesel emissions are worse for people to breathe.) and isn’t that much more fuel efficient than something like a Yaris, esp on the highway.
I really don’t get the whole hybrid thing. If they were $15k out the door or cheaper…..I’d say ok, maybe. But for $25k & a waiting list???
I know they are significantly better than a yaris waiting in city traffic or maybe rush hour, but in that case a bicycle or public transport is better anyhow. For way less than the monthly payment of a hybrid, you can get a gym membership that you use JUST to shower for after you finish your 5/10/20 mile bicycle commute.
“You’re drinking it now.”
The whole problem with the attitude displayed, besides the points made by psarhjinian, is that it’s so broad brush. What idiot is going to make the statement that all possible hybrids are worse for the environment than regular IC vehicles? No, they don’t say that, they say all hybrids. Then they don’t even really try to prove that either.
Every car is it’s own class. Tech changes daily. One is best served by tempering their statements with admissions of intuition over knowledge lest one prove oneself to be an ass.
A car that was supposed to sell just 3000 units a month to a few tree-huggers turned out to be so good, that a million of them have been sold.
What do these guys hate so much? That Toyota built such an amazing vehicle when billions of PNGV dollars couldnt produce squat in the US? That a car should be bold enough in design that it should actually make a statement? Or that if we’re all a bunch of smug, commie tree-huggers, that there are a million of us (and counting) that also happen to have enough money to not have to ride around on 30 year old bicycles in our Birks? Thats gotta be scary!!
If I didnt get my daily does of Prius bashing on at least one site a day (I can usually count on Autob**g), I would think I was in an alternate universe.
What are these people going to do when the next gen comes out with more power, better mpg in an even more practical package? How much ridicule will you be able to hurl at a car that will be the size of a Camry (with a practical hatch), go 0-60 in 9 seconds, and get a real world 55-60mpg? And how smug, self-righteous, or commie sympathizing will the buyer of that car be demonized as?
I cant wait.
In marketing and PR, when you have the best thing going you tout that. When you don’t, you try to undercut the leader.
I’m good and tired of the various efforts designed to demonstrate what a bad choice buying Prius is, they’re all very transparent and usually on behalf of carmakers who are stuck with clunkers in comparison.
Basically, using the same argument, we should all be pleased with driving a Civic or elemental Skoda/VW — and everything deviating from that is an irrational choice, whether it’s an Acura or a Phaeton (well, the Phaeton is pretty irrational). And buying any BMW above the 1-series would be likewise dimwitted.
People make purchasing decisions partly from rational positions and chiefly from irrational ones. Those two umlaut dots above the a in Häagen Dazs do sell a lot of ice cream.
Buying a Prius gives a lot of people the Mastercard priceless feeling, and that’s that. A large number of car buyers are finding the silent start of HSD quite attractive, and something they’re willing to pay more for than for other cars.
Mr Maloney, give it a rest – you’re spouting GM designed propaganda, and you probably know it.
It’s highly entertaining to read how people “automatically” equate hybrids with left wing politics. Perhaps because so much of the main stream “press” is left-centric, and also swallow the Al Gore global warming crap therefore think Prius is the way to go, etc.
First, I have done a lot of studying about the hybrid phenomenon over the past 4 years. Did you know that fully 40% of Prius owners are NOT left wing folk?
I am on #2 Prius. I’m not left-wing. I believe, due to studying various contrarian (compared to “general belief” aka propaganda) that global warming is totally bogus, and that quite the opposite is happening, due to nature and celestial mechanics. In short, cycles of climate are way bigger than a VERY minor increase in an inert gas which is proven to be a VERY VERY tiny player in “global warming.”
I do get tired of the left-wing folk attitude of intellectual superiority, however. It’s almost a given, that in conversations or blogs, you’ll see leftists commenting derisively about righies, and you’ll see comments about how dumb and backward, how easily they follow the(ir) crowd, and often see commentary about those ignorant religion believing folks living in trailers or driving trucks. Some of these folks driving truck and living in trailers may not have gotten past 10th grade, 12th grade or 2 years of college, but if they all went on strike, we’d all starve to death. Wouldn’t we? Look at the rest of the world RIGHT NOW with the truckers going on strike, over high taxation and oil prices. Oh yeah, sorry, we live in America – we don’t see international news, unless we search it out online, do we?
Know what? Honestly, when it comes to many liberal folks, I can say that I think it largely is a case of “when you point one finger at others (in derision), you’re pointing THREE back at yourself.”
Look how the lefties blindly follow the “cause dejure” and how you think so highly of yourselves and how you always claim to take the high road of being “tolerant.”
Right. Tolerant as long as folk agree with you. I see it every day. It’s getting worse day by day.
It’s the “tolerant” left which seeks to shut Christians up because we don’t agree with everything the popular culture does, and passes laws in Canada and Colorado to do just exactly that. Tolerant, my ass.
Grow up!
I’d best now get my asbestos suit out.
Robstar, unless you’re brand-new to this issue, what you’ve posted is simply lies.
The Insight did a LITTLE better than the Prius. No diesel has met it in EPA testing (no, not even the smaller ones made by VW). And the Prius gives a couple MPG to the Insight while being a mid-sized car.
marc,
The mudslinging on the issue went both ways, and in fact, the anti priora round started with a big load of HATE coming from the anti-SUV crowd.
All of it is crap, because you really should not try to label anyone based on their car choice, but the “anti-car yet car still a bunch of car owners crowd” started this fight.
Live by the sword die by the sword. It’s wrong all around.
Funny thing is, it was the beloved (not by me…) David E. Davis who played a large role many years ago in the anti-intellectualism follies. Remember when he used to sneer that Saab buyers (and the like) were “dirndl-clad, Birkenstock-wearing Vermont academics”, etc.? Used to inflame the muscle-car guys, although at least David E. wasn’t allowed to use the word “faggots.”
I think a lot of the right vs. left arguments in America are due to the fact that there are only two viable political parties.
In Canada we have the Conservatives (which were the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives up until a few years ago), the Liberals, the NDP, the Bloc Québécois and the Green party (they are gaining popularity).
We suffer from the opposite problem as in America, we have too many political parties.
From left to right, the parties tend to go from:
Green, NDP, Liberals, Conservatives
The Bloc only run in Quebec and are pretty much irrelevant when it comes to federal politics.
Anyway, my point is that we tend to be a lot less divisive in Canada regarding the left vs. right dichotomy.
And if you’re wondering, I’m a left leaning conservative.
menno,
You’re tarring the left with some very broad strokes, there. What you really want to criticize is fanaticism, not a particular part of the spectrum.
And let’s be honest about what you’re calling “bias” and “propaganda”: it’s because you don’t agree with it that you’ve pigeonholed it as such, and you’re automatically on the defensive about it. I’m of the opinion that the media bias is right-of-centre, and that pro-business interests have far more sway, but that’s from my perspective.
Blogs make the matter worse: you’ll only see the worst percentile of ideologues posting; the moderates were long since scared away. For left-wingers, this runs the gamut from GreenPeace/PETA hardcores, old Stalinists, angry (fill in minority here) to people who collect undergrad degrees and never leave school. For right-wingers, this is Ronulans, religious (any religion, take your pick) fundamentalists, all-hat-no-cattle types and Angry Daily Mail/Washington Times/Toronto Sun Readers.
It’s like mentioning Al Gore; I feel the same way about Ronald Reagan. Speak the name of either to anyone too entrenched in ideology from either side of the spectrum and you can pretty much predict how the conversation is going to go, which is a shame, because it really closes people down.
You’ve given this stuff some thought and I think you’ve made a valid point about not pidgeonholing people’s car choice, but you’ve belittled your argument by pulling pushbutton phrases like “Liberal Media”, “Propaganda” or “Al Gore”.
Guys, I think you’re all missing the point here – to get respect from the good ol’ boys club, as we’ve learned in other discussions this week, Toyota would have to offer a V8 variant on the Prius. 0-60 in under 6, and a quarter time within 2.5 seconds of a track-tuned M3. And it would be able to towa motor home. And there would be a Hybrid Full-Size pickup at the other end of the lot, just to make the person buying the Prius feel good that they are purchasing from a full-line auto maker.
Then, and only then, will the Prius be taken seriously and respected by the Auto Industry. Until that point, it’s just a niche. Really, we aren’t all actually men unless we’re bumping chests at the pumps and congratulating each other on our second $100 top offs that week…
I would say: NDP, Green, Liberal, PC. The NDP definitely comes across as more traditionally left; the greens are really very akin to the liberals, or even the more pink Tories, but with a green streak.
But yes, your point is a good one. The US suffers for not having a way to split the fringe aspects of the left and right off from their respective parties. I’d like to see the US go as follows:
* Libertarian/Pro-Business Right
* Christian Heritage/Social Conservative Right
* Neomarxist/Labour/Classic Left
* Green Left
Right now, in the US, you have to hold your nose and pick a side, and that’s unfortunate. It also means that the extremists (and granted, this happens more often in the Republican party) get more a voice than they really deserve or (and this is a Democratic thing) the party has no real unifying message.
if your worried about what people are saying about you when your drive your car…or if you worry about how other people look when they drive their car….get a life. your not that important. your opinion is no more important then the next guy.
Being “Hawaii-based” and complaining about “Starbucks and its designer coffee” is a little ironic. According to Wikipedia, Kona coffee is “one of the most expensive and sought-after coffees in the world”.
I drink at Starbucks (though I prefer to use more local businesses) but what gets me is when someone sipping a $2 16oz cup of flavored city water complains about paying $4 for a gallon of gasoline that has been extracted from miles underground, transported half way around the world and processed in billion dollar refineries.
psarhjinian:
Yeah, I was debating as to whether put the Greens or the NDP more to the left. But your point is well taken. Very few people are pure left or right.
I love the tactic of painting Ronald Reagan as an extremist of the level of Al Gore. Sorry, but they are not nearly the same distance from center.
Reagan was not that far off from center by any measure that puts the center where it really is. We are talking about the former governor of California after all.
As for the Canadians, the number of parties is not the problem.
The problem is that once you vote for a person to represent your area, they don’t get to vote on your behalf. They vote their party. Or, they switch parties. If you only had two parties it wouldn’t work.
Combine that with an interventionist, large government mentality and you get – Canada. Constantly spending tons of money to buy votes with the majority having little expertise in ANY of the areas of investment.
I have a decent idea about a few industries and their issues from life experience. I am constantly amazed at how wrong the press, the populace in general, and the government are about how those industries work. So much so, that I now question whether any of them are ever right about anything that I don’t already know to be true.
I would say: NDP, Green, Liberal, PC. The NDP definitely comes across as more traditionally left; the greens are really very akin to the liberals, or even the more pink Tories, but with a green streak.
I would take it further: NDP, Lib, Green, Conservative. Check out the Green platform, it is fairly conservative (small c), with an environmental lean.
But I do think the Greens have an public perception problem, as shown in this thread alone.
@Landcrusher
The problem is that once you vote for a person to represent your area, they don’t get to vote on your behalf. They vote their party. Or, they switch parties. If you only had two parties it wouldn’t work.
Actually, only the Conservative party is hard handed in this regard. Although there may be pressure to vote with your party, it is not enforced in other parties to the degree that the Conservatives do.
Landcrusher, while your point about Canadian politicians toe-ing the party line is (generally) correct, how is that all that different than in the U.S. Congress? Obviously representatives often vote with the other party, but it sure doesn’t seem to be for the sake of their constituents. Although I suppose a little pork goes down well in most juridictions.
Dean,
Actually, it often IS on behalf of their constituents. One of the most common reasons to cross the line is industry regulation. There are oil company supporting democrats as well as farm subsidy republicans. There are actually very few truly party line votes. There seem to always be a few dissenters, and even more conspicuously not present. I think that’s a good sign.
rev0lver,
That sounds suspiciously partisan without being backed up with a non-partisan study. My direct knowledge is pretty limited, but when I learned about this and asked around in Canada no one brought that up, and most thought is was a bit of a problem. Unless you are a conservative, you may be falling for a common misperception that makes both sides think the other is worse.
@Landcrusher.
There is a difference between a Prius driver having something negative to say about an SUV (and its driver) and someone spouting off about Prius drivers. The Prius driver has made a purchasing decision that not only helps themselves but also helps (or at least does less damage) to others. The Prius driver is using less imported oil and spewing less toxic emissions. And if you believe (as most scientists do) in AGW, then the Prius driver is helping there as well. So yeah, I think I can be a little self righteous about the ridiculous choice too many people have made for the past 15 years buying their sport utility behemoths. What RATIONAL reason does one of them have to be upset with me or my car????
Let me expand my point. I’m not against honest debate. If someone wants to debate the merits of a vehicle, bring it on. Tell me my Prius does not handle as well as a BMW. I can take it, really. Because it is true.
Well here are some SUV truths,
They are unreasonably large compared to other cars on the road.
They are unnecessary for most families.
They are not NEEDED for towing. Because the need presumes that a family needs to tow a 30 foot trailer to go camping. When did this become a NEED?
They use too much gas.
They spew too many toxic emissions.
They have too large of a carbon footbprint.
They take up too much space on city streets.
I could go on.
Now what invectives are hurled at the Prius?
Smug drivers…someone has watched too much South Park.
Ugly styling…purely subjective.
Slow…by what standard?
Not as high gas mileage as the EPA originally estimated…Still the best in the US.
So really, if anyone says that the insults are hurled both ways, I say, well there is a lot more for the Prius side to say about the SUV side than the other way around.
C’mon, you gotta admit that South Park was hilarious. My friends and I still say “Good For You!” when we see a Prius…and one of them owns one. It’s all in good fun.
Well, I don’t like hybrids, personally, and I would probably pay a small premium to keep driving straight ICE. But as a matter of policy, bring on anything that will make automotive transportation more efficient.
Maloney is obviously preaching to people with a specific point of view who will feel validated reading that drivel.
Uh, KixStart, I agree that Starbucks treats their workers well, but I can’t stand their espresso, and I’m a connoisseur of espresso, can tell you where to get the best in Boston, Western Mass, Cape Cod, Princeton NJ, NYC, and DC.
EN: great blog item. TX
marc,
There is no difference between the Prius driver commenting about the other drivers based on their car choices and the revers. NONE. It’s just wrong.
In fact, that is exactly what many people making fun of the Prius drivers are aiming at, the sanctimonious factor.
Let’s drop the AGW debate now, I don’t think a majority vote among scientists was ever the measure of truth. Besides, if the Prius driver really wants to help, let him stay home, or walk.
Here is the thing – the whole choice of vehicle cannot be drawn down and qualified well enough based on nothing other than efficiency. If it were, then the Prius would get a bad grade as well. Hell, the Prius is a luxury vehicle, and is way to large for most people’s “needs”.
The bottom line is that no one elses “needs” are any of your business. When people spew their opinion about others needs they are just being self centered, self righteous, and foolish.
Certainly there are many people who choose cars that are inappropriate. IMO, most cars are chosen inappropriately because the people buying them can’t afford them and half to borrow money. How responsible is that? Well, that’s my opinion. It’s not right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
99% of us waste resources and energy on luxuries. The only way to stop that is to destroy capitalism. If you do that, we will all suffer. And there it is. We drive SUV’s because we can. There is nothing wrong about it.
If we are all honest about our own choices we will have to admit that we should leave the SUV owners alone. If you really think there is a need to conserve gasoline, then vote for a gas tax or rationing. The rest is just dishonest whining about how everyone doesn’t live the way you think they should.
I don’t know what your vocation or avocation(s) is/are, but just think about how they might come after yours next.
Edit: Also, what is this whole thing about them taking up too much space? I still don’t get this.
Well said, marc.
The journo is relying on stereotypes, which reveals his ignorance. But I don’t read him, and I don’t know anybody who does, so he’s a non-issue to me.
I drive a Prius. I did not buy it to make a statement. Here are some of the reasons why:
1. I wanted to conserve gas. I’m not operating under a self-important presumption, though. I know that me alone saving gas won’t make a global difference, and I’m not about to go getting all activist on this matter. I just don’t want ME to waste it. I can afford gas, I just wanted to burn less of it. Everybody else is free to do what they want, but to me, it’s the height of stupid wastefulness to drive a car that burns gas while at a stoplight or in stop/go traffic when cars are available that don’t do this.
2. I wanted a car bigger than my then-current two-seater; but not a people-or-cargo-hauling urban assault vehicle.
3. Toyota had appeared to have done their homework. Four years and 65,000 miles later, I still believe this.
4. I liked the shape, and I still do!
The other generalizations about hybrid owners also don’t apply to me, but nobody on the road would know that, because I don’t advertise my lifestyle or voting choices with cutsey bumper stickers. When I’m on the road, I want people to pay attention to their DRIVING. I don’t think I have the right to distract other drivers’ attention with my statements of opinion.
Landcrusher:
Let’s drop the AGW debate now, I don’t think a majority vote among scientists was ever the measure of truth. Besides, if the Prius driver really wants to help, let him stay home, or walk.
I think I missed the memo…does AGW stand for “something-Global Warming”? If so, then I’ll add that I don’t think “most scientists” have enough knowledge or have any business thinking that global warming is here. It’s simply not their area of expertise, and/or they haven’t seen the evidence (much of which is questionable anyhow).
…Hell, the Prius is a luxury vehicle, and is way to large for most people’s “needs”.
I agree! I often drive the gang to lunch, but that’s only about once every other week. Most of my driving…it’s just me and on occasion a few bags of “Kow” manure…
I actually wanted to buy both a Prius and an Insight, because I wanted to get 60+ MPG for 90% of my driving. But I could only afford one car, so I had to make a choice. And the Prius met “most of my needs”. (Correction: It met my “most important” needs, which was more capacity and a hatchback)
Now the Insight is not being made anymore. Unfortunate for me, I would have loved to have the chance to drive the red or blue one!
[quote]For way less than the monthly payment of a hybrid, you can get a gym membership that you use JUST to shower for after you finish your 5/10/20 mile bicycle commute.[/quote]
Sadly, the infrastructure in most places is such that a lone cyclist can cause others to burn far less fuel than s/he is saving.
Even almost 20 years ago, I was regularly reduced to a start/stop crawl by a co-worker blocking a two-lane road in the winter morning darkness. While his intentions were good, the results were terrible.
I suppose that back in the nursing home where that old bugger lives, they don’t look fondly on anything but Caddies.
Seriously, this guy is so old he could be John McCain’s son!
Landcrusher…
This is the last I will say on this, because my intention is not to get into any personal arguments on these sites. And you certainly have a point that anyone on either side can get into self-righteous, holier than thou shouting matches. Cars, due to their economic, artistic, environmental, practical qualities brings out the worst in plenty of us.
That being said…
“We drive SUV’s because we can. There is nothing wrong about it.”
That is where you are wrong.
Did you read the TTAC post about Sharon today? She already has three SUVs and is looking to purchase another for her 2 sons to go off to college. 4 SUVs. 4 vehicles sucking up too much gas, spewing too many emissions, and yes, taking up too much space (probably not an issue for her, but it is in urban centers.) That is not just her concern, but it adversely affects others around her. We all end up paying higher gas prices, breathing dirtier air, and sending troops off to Iraq. Hey, it’s all related.
Now Im not gonna preach to the contractor who needs his truck for business. Im not gonna lecture the family who has to haul their brood around in some mini (maxi) van (altho dont get me started on ZPG). And i dont begrudge a little conspicuous consumption. If I had the cash Id have an Aston for my weekend jaunts down the coast.
But this proliferation of trucks and SUVs over the past 15 years has cost us all, and is just inexcusable. Those of us who have not taken the path to the dark side have a right to criticize that, as long as the arguments remain rational and thoughtful. I think I have laid out some real logical, rational reasons why SUVs and their owners can be criticized. Criticism in this world is needed more, not less. What is needed is less is hurling of insults like smug, self-righteous, pious (my favorite).
And BTW, the Prius is pretty near perfect sized. If you really need something smaller, get a Yaris. You probably dont need a hybrid at all. I sure would not look down on someone spending just 12K for a practical little runabout that gets mileage close to a hybrid. But if you ever have a couple passengers and stuff, the Prius can take it all in a pinch.
“Look, I drive a Saab used; can’t afford a new Prius). I vote left-wing. I buy coffee at Starbucks (largest buyer of ethical coffee in the world; ne of the few companies that doesn’t screw it’s part-time staff, etc, etc) when I can’t get it at a good independent, I have a university education, recycle and compost, wear turtlenecks and birkenstocks, support gay marriage and try to be green and humanitarian when I can…”
Well, I drive an Olds 4cyl stick. I can’t afford a Prius either. I vote right-wing. I don’t buy coffee at Starbucks. (I feel the co. exploits the Third World.) I have a university education (waste of 7 yrs in my opinion). I recycle everything. I compost nothing. Turtlenecks make me sweaty. Don’t know what birkenstocks are. No comment on gay marriage. I try to be green but hate Greenies. Not sure what “humanitarian” means; I try to be moral instead.
I am a Prius convert. It’s the better mousetrap. Its drivers, however, are verminous mice, so to speak. Arrogant, self-important, and always speeding.
limmin :
I am a Prius convert. It’s the better mousetrap. Its drivers, however, are verminous mice, so to speak. Arrogant, self-important, and always speeding.
Huh? Generalizations such as that…oh wait a minute, I feel the same way about Saturn drivers. Nevermind!
Just Kidding! :D
You can’t legislate against arrogance and self-importance, so maybe it would be good to just let that go…
But speeders…you can support judges who support the law, and who are not lenient. It’s a start!
I say that the roads will be safer if we get rid of the 5% worst drivers. Each year. Take them off the road, and put them on the bus.
Many will be the speeders you speak of. Many will also be the extremely slow left-lane drivers that make me bonkers, so we’ll both be happy!
This is quite the entertaining and even informative set of comments. Especially those from psarhjinian.
I’m more than a little sick of the Prius bashing. They’re not all being bought by celebs or their fans. And I don’t feel that even their more extreme owners are any worse than modders who brag about their timeslips. In both cases, people are celebrating a form of technical excellence. Better than people who select a car mindlessly.
Long time reader. first time poster.
Since I began reading this site about 2 years ago, everytime I read something about the Prius’. I always ask myself the same question. Is Puerto Rico the only place where people buy a Prius only because gas is getting expensive and they want to save gas?
For the record I dont own a Prius, but know many persons that do, including my best friend. None of the persons that I know purchased one because they want to save the rain forrest or because they are against global warming.
They purchased one because, using my best friend as an example, he likes the fact that he can run his car for around two weeks using only 20 dollars of gas. He also likes the fact of been able to do that in a car that came with all the bells and whistles that he wanted, and with very good interior room. He is not a car enthusiast so he doesn’t care about 0 to 60 times or canyon carving abilities. He cares about saving his money.
Gas over here is still cheaper than in the states, about $0.98 to $1.03 dollars per liter, but still is expensive for most of the people. Compact cars have always been great sellers here in the island, but still is interesting seing all the SUVs and pick up trucks being traded up for Yaris, Civics, Corollas and the likes.
But anyway, what people over here know. People here voted for Hillary Clinton even tough everyone knew that Obama was going to win the election anyway. Also not counting the fact that we cannot vote in the presidential elections in november. But again… what do we know.
There is no justice when outstanding journalists like Tim Russert die early and bozos like Bill Maloney keep on cranking out the nonsense.
Anti-intellectualism is one of the hallmarks of a totalitarian society.
Marc,
The lady wanting another SUV has done nothing wrong. We almost all in this country have things we don’t “need” and “waste” excessively compared to many other countries. Yet we have one of the cleanest, nicest countries in the world, with some of the cleanest air and pollution standards. We have plenty of everything.
If I knew more about you, I could write a book about your waste and unnecessary use of resources. Why do you want to pick on the SUV crowd?
If you are worried about running out of gas, then go buy a bunch and store it. Better yet, buy an oilwell and a refinery.
If you are worried about pollution, then get a law past.
If you can’t do those things, then get the message – You are not to make automotive decisions for others. You only have choices you do have because of the freedom given everyone in this country to make potentially bad choices. Taking advantage of your freedoms to disparage the choices of others is simply bad form. By definition – YOU DON’T KNOW ANY BETTER.
If you don’t like the anti-Prius crowd, look in the mirror. You, and others who share your opinions created them.