While driving the Buick LaCrosse, I asked Line Director Jeanne Merchant a question: what could she tell me about reliability that would persuade me, a satisfied Toyota owner, to jump ship? Merchant gave a pretty good answer, but I was busy trying not to run over traffic cones. In a subsequent phone interview, Merchant said reliability starts early in the process. From design to component testing, from durability tests to audits and feedback, from computer modeling to real world testing, they make sure every part of the car and all its systems are built right and performing to specification. And they take it very, very seriously. “The LaCrosse is very personal to me,” Merchant said. “I’ve worked with it for years. Everybody else involved feels the same way. And the same goes for the other product lines.” Process and passion. Is it enough?
After hanging-out with the front line troops, I believe GM’s employees are fully committed to product excellence. But the product, manufacturing and service providers all depend on GM’s top management for critical support in delivering customer satisfaction and value. They’ve got to have top management support to make the hard decisions to put customer satisfaction and value first—even if it’s going to cost GM some money.
I asked two of the product managers, “Does Bob Lutz help you build better cars?” The first one I asked was taken aback. There was a moment of silence. He swallowed, started to speak, stopped and then, slowly, said, “Y-e-s.” I waited a minute. He didn’t elaborate.
The second manager I asked leaned back in his seat, tipped his head to the side, looked thoughtfully at me for a moment and then said, “Yes and no.” Apparently, there are things the troops want and don’t want in the vehicle. And then there are things top management wants and doesn’t want. Two guesses who wins that debate.
Lutz is just the most visible and outspoken GM executive. But he’s symbolic of GM’s top down management style. CEO Fritz Henderson told us the New GM would put the customer first. But the morning’s events left me with the overwhelming impression that nothing has changed at GM, and nothing is likely to change. The good people at the sharp end must still bend their will to executives; heavy hitters with a tin ear for the advice given by the people who really know how to make great cars.
Did GM Win Me Over?
To get an actual sale from me would be tough. I want a very quiet car with exceptional fuel economy and good interior room at a good price. I want a decade of reliable, trouble-free motoring, because that’s what I have now and it’s worth a lot of money to me to keep it. Dave wants the same things, too.
GM employees were only happy to address these issues. But finding a way to reassure me that GM is on track for Prius-beating answers was not an official part of the days’ events.
Dave is a very focused guy. His benchmark is Hyundai’s 10/100 warranty. He won’t have to worry about his two cars for quite some years after they’re paid off and he likes it that way. He mentioned this requirement to GM people at the track or whenever the opportunity presented itself.
He sat beside me through Lutz’ talk and heard Lutz say, “I get letters telling me, ‘you should offer a 100 thousand mile warranty.’ I tell them, ‘We have a [five year] 100 thousand mile warranty!’” I actually heard Dave snort. Maybe I don’t know Dave as well as I think I do, but I’d bet his decision didn’t take very long. “No 10/100? Well, thanks for the rides. Be seein’ ya.”
GM didn’t win Dave over.
The people I talked to at the Proving Ground made a very favorable impression on me. Most of the cars made a very favorable impression on me. I liked the LaCrosse quite a bit. I liked the Cruze interior very much, and I’m sorry the car couldn’t be driven. In a world without a Prius, I would be the target market for that car. Yes, I’d rate the Malibu “not as good” as the Camry, but it’s still pretty good. There are cars in the GM lineup that appeal to me.
If GM had flown me from the Twin Cities to Detroit at lunchtime, brought me straight to the Proving Ground and walked me right out to the cars, GM would have won. But GM brought me to Detroit twenty-one hours early and exposed me to GM’s top management.
Lutz seemed convinced that five years coverage is as good as 10. He wanted me believe that GM is a victim of a “perception gap”— when we know that GM is actually a victim of its own reputation and many years of failing to put the customer first. The party line is that GM quality is right up there with the leaders, but GM won’t back the cars as though they believe it. Henderson didn’t add anything concrete.
GM failed to provide a compelling reason to believe that GM products will deliver the 10 year reliability that I, and millions of other motorists, expect. They could have shown me some engineering excellence up close and personal. See? This is where we beat the competition. This is the difference between us and them. They didn’t.
The message I received from my junket: GM’s top management doesn’t think they have to deliver the goods on customer satisfaction. They believe I can be manipulated into believing whatever they want me to believe about GM, and that the appearance of caring for the customer is more important than the care the customer actually receives.
GM didn’t win me over, and, frankly, I feel pretty bad about it.
While I was on the phone with Jeanne Merchant and Randy Fox, Randy asked a couple of leading questions. I told them how the story was going to end. I explained my lack of confidence in GM’s top management. I didn’t feel that they would leap on an opportunity to fully resolve—and learn from—a customer satisfaction problem. I asked Merchant what she thought about that.
What’s most painful to me is the feeling that we’ve let the customers down. I’ve been involved in recalls and they’re painful but we do the right thing. I keep pushing until we do the right thing.
No wonder the real journalists drink. You meet some great people on these junkets, but if you pay attention, the story just doesn’t go their way. Maybe GM will call in a crack re-write team. Meanwhile, no sale.
124 Comments on “Editorial: How GM Tried to Win Me Over, Part Three...”
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Sort of amazing and sort of sad.
1) How thick does GM have to be to ignore the Hyundai 10/100 warranty lesson?
2) Re Jeanne Merchant’s comment I keep pushing until we do the right thing. At some point doesn’t the recognition sink in that further “pushing” is an exercise in futility?
Malibu not as good as Camry? After renting a Camry, the Malibu must be appalling.
What engine is the North American Cruz getting? the 1.8l non turbo we get offers abismal performance and the fuel consumption is awful
Great editorial.
Fritz seems like a nice enough guy, but the fact that he believes Lutz, LaNeve, and Docherty can be successful and deserve to still work at GM absolutely boggles my mind.
I wonder if a different author would have a different opinion if he/she didn’t need to be assured that “GM is on track for Prius-beating answers”?
Lets say yours truly was there. I’d be looking for the most horsepower/speed for the least amount of cash possible. Interior be damned. I need assured that GM isn’t becoming a CAFE enslaved bitch.
I was able to buy my 08 Impala SS for $15K. What does GM have on the horizon that produces that kind of HP, has 4 doors, and can be bought for that kind of money?
As a consumer that refuses to accept the pussification of the automobile I know I represent a minority, but damn it, I’ve been loyal to GM in my auto buying history. So if I was there how would GM win me over? Where’s my assurance?
Keep writing more, Darwin. You convey your opinions well, and seem to represent what you’ve seen without spin or un-disclosed bias.
It was a brilliant idea to ask the product managers about Lutz… For all the outward facing PR we get, there isn’t a truer representation of how well GM manages than from the inside.
Any chance you could get invited to a Ford junket sometime soon?
Great set of editorials,
I really respect your stance to be as objective as possible to the ongoings of the event, and yet be very balanced in your verdict in respect to what you actually feel for GM as a whole and what you discovered of GM at the event.
I’m not related to GM in anyway shape or form. as an outsider (non american) i sense that a whole lot of americans have negative feelings towards the company, and more so now after they have been dragged, nails scratching the floor, into lending money to a company that still seems to ignore the true core of the bussiness.
i think the philosophy at GM will remain unchanged until a new generation takes over the helm.
i have been making this observation in many aspects of economy, the older generations, despite having built humongous companies with immense hope on their part gave the reigns to a certain generation (now in charge). That certain generation has derailed the train, evident in many corporations, banks, etc… greedie, and thursty for profit, they forgot why the companies were actually so big and what made them get to the top.
in the future, hopefully within 5 years, a more responsible generation will take over, and the worries of people like “Merchant’s” will be addressed, and maybe eventually the Americans will get what they want from the company they have always owned, even before their billions were injected in it.
By the way,,, where are the BS Autobiographies
?
So much needs to change. GM’s management culture, GM’s understanding of customer expectations, GM’s treatment of their suppliers…
Will we ever see this change in our lifetime???
Ronman:
I thought BS was hooked up with some business deal these last few weeks? I would not be surprised if he wasn’t in some way personally involved in all that Volkswagen/Porsche conundrum right now. Time will tell.
I have a question for Mr Hatheway. And this is no sort of flaming, even if it can be seen as such.
But, would you have percieved the marketing event in a more favourable way, hadn’t you been so negatively biased in the first place? I know the whole event was meant to win those people over, the problem is, if there is a negative bias, that bias will continue even after the fact. What I wonder is, will those bad feelings that people righteously harvest ever fade away? Or is it a lost cause to even try? Is GM doomed, no matter what?
there’s a few ways i heard of people ’spinning’ the 10yr/100,000 mile warranty?
are the cars that crappy that they need them?
why do porsches and bmws only have a 3 yr warranty?
GM have obviously done their MTBF tables and worked out they can’t do a like warranty?
i would also like to put forward that even with a matching warranty to Hyundai you wouldn’t buy a lot of their cars because many of them just aren’t that good…
I appreciate these insights…a good read in all three parts. But in reading between the lines, I don’t get the impression that anything Fritz or the other leaders might have said would have worked with our friend here. The new GM leadership team has been in place for all of four weeks, throws open the doors for people to come in and see the good and the bad…and they’re declared to be not listening and essentially the “old” GM. If this article says anything it’s that for a significant number of people, it won’t matter at all what GM does…those people are gone and they ain’t comin’ back. Thanks for all the time and effort…a good read.
I can appreciate the need and desire to have a reliable car that is affordable and quiet. If you have a car that has all of these things then by all means keep it. I am not sure that Toyota or any other car company is going to be perfect all of the time.
My family has owned two Toyota’s. One Tercel, the other a Corolla. Both cars were purchased in the 90’s brand new. We had to get rid of the Tercel because of quality(it kept breaking down, engine issues) and the Corolla was traded in with 90,000 miles because the engine was leaking oil and the exhaust system was shot.
We have recently purchased two Ford products( Ford Freestyle Limited 07) and a 09 Ford Escape XLT. Of course time will tell if both of these products do any better than our Toyota experience.
I have enjoyed reading these blogs and getting the inside scoop on the production teams within GM. I am wondering however, if at some point the allure or even legend of one car marker over another is just that, legend and allure.
I do not own any GM products so I can not speak to the long term reliablity of the “new” GM. I do believe however, that it is impossible to predict an auto makers future soley based on its past. The past can certainly give us clues to the future, but it can never fully provide us the crystal ball that we would like for it to.
Thanks for sharing Darwin. These were well written.
Gm still does not realize that the “perception gap” is more on their side than the publics.
Bunter
TrueDelta’s research process will make quick reliability stats possible for the LaCrosse and Cruze. Unknown, though, is how easy it will be to find participants for these cars.
Good point on GM’s top-down management style. I studied GM from the inside a decade ago, and this was a focus of my critique. At least two people forwarded my conclusions to Lutz. I did not expect him to act upon them, and was not surprised.
The executive summary:
http://www.truedelta.com/execsum.php
A star is born. Great writing style Darwin. (Robert, hook this guy up.)
As for the content: 100% accurate to what my GM friends tell me about their jobs.
The insular, ego-clown GM execs and managers are the problem. Nearly all high-ups got promoted by the old boys club, and it’s their duty not to turn on it. It’s scary, what they don’t know, and they’re mean and vindictive toward dissenting opinion. Still. Today.
GM will have a prayer if people like Merchant and Fox get their due and get promoted to the top ranks. They sound like passionate, committed, talented and engaged people.
Will they?
Doubt it.
add:
Move along. Nothing else to see here.
Add: Thanks, Mr. Hatheway. The first objective piece on GM I’ve seen on this site. Well written, well thought-out from the consumer’s point of view. In a just world, links to this article will FLOOD the GM mail server for the top-ranked guys to read. You’ve held up the mirror to their faces. Will they have the guts to look in and see the truth?
Doubt it. But a noble effort, anyway.
As long as GM keeps scolding us that we are wrong in our perception that GM quality is inferior, I will still walk away befuddled by the fact that they think they can shame me into parting with my money. When they go on the offensive like that, all it tells me is that they have run out of options and are in panic mode to do something fast.
I truely feel sorry for all the worker bees at GM. I know that they really care and bust their hump to do the best they can. But all their dedication and hard work is smothered by inept management that is still without a clue. The old management went out the front door and reentered through the back door and announce that they were different people with a different way of thinking. Pulling off this ruse could only be accomplished by old style thinking, i.e. “I must save my own hide at any cost and I will say anything that they want to hear”.
I can hear John Delorean either laughing his ass off or crying at lost opportunities.
So far, they couldn’t come up with a business model where they G8 was viable but came up with one that has them rallying around the Impala even longer…
I am so disgusted at GM (and the U.S. automotive industry), that they alone have destroyed my belief in free enterprise.
I also liked the article.
When I bought my new car 5 years ago I was undecided if I should get a neat looking fuel sipper (at that time I was looking at the “insight”) or a rally style sports car (as I used to like rally racing).
Nothing by any of the American manufacturers could approach the insight in fuel mileage (I was single, no gf, no plans to get married), or fit the rally car requirements (4 door, awd, sub 5 second 0-60).
4 years later, nothing STILL approaches either of those that I know about.
For her next car, my wife wants a 6 seater minivan that is small. Do any American manufacturers make anything similar to the mazda5? This is what we are looking at.
In shopping, I believe you need to fill requirements first, then compare pricing, reliability, incentives, etc.
if the American manufacturers can’t even put a product on the table that I want to buy, the reliability, incentives, and pricing of products I _don’t_ want to buy simply don’t matter.
prthug:
The new GM leadership team has been in place for all of four weeks,
What “new” GM leadership team? All they’ve done, in typical GM style, is take the existing substandard models, rebadge them and spin them as “all new.”
Yeah, there may be some new job titles and shuffling of offices, but it’s still the same old executives, steeped in the same GM corporate culture, running the show. And as long as they’re the ones ultimately calling the shots, all the Merchants and Foxes in the world won’t make a bit of difference in the end.
What’s most painful to me is the feeling that we’ve let the customers down. I’ve been involved in recalls and they’re painful but we do the right thing. I keep pushing until we do the right thing.
It is no use saying “We are doing our best.” You have to to succeed in doing what is necessary.
Churchill
GM’s (and others’) business model seems to still be based upon building vehicles for the market of a bygone era – one in which people trade for a new model every two to four years.
Instead of so many press junkets, I challenge GM senior leaders to obtain some Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas and travel away from the Detroit metro area to a variety of middle class suburban communities throughout the U.S. Spend some time in the parking lots of malls and big-box retailers and see how your target buyers spend their money, both on their vehicles and on what goes into them.
As car nuts, we can say that more horsepower, better handling or improved quality are the holy grail, but in reality the mass-market purchasers of “bread and butter” vehicles should be the ones that pay the bills for any mainstream automaker. That’s the key to long-term sustainability for any business.
Excellent article by Mr. Hatheway; GM’s top management still obviously believes that the “perception gap” in regard to quality issues with
their vehicles is the public’s problem and not General Motors. The statement by Lutz that he felt no need to match Hyundai’s 10/100K warranty tells
me very little has changed at GM and won’t until the old guard is gone. It is still the same old GM executives and the same old GM culture running the show. As long as they remain, all the efforts of individuals like Merchant and Fox are essentially for naught.
As car nuts, we can say that more horsepower, better handling or improved quality are the holy grail, but in reality the mass-market purchasers of “bread and butter” vehicles should be the ones that pay the bills for any mainstream automaker. That’s the key to long-term sustainability for any business.…
As sad as that statement is, it is the absolute truth. Camrys pay the bills. GT-R’s don’t. I love performance probably more than most, even here, but you must offer desirable appliance grade cars for the masses. Flush with these sales, you make the fun stuff. Of all the people I associate with, I am one of the few who have/had some American branded cars (trucks seem to be much better accepted). Most won’t even look, let alone buy. I have the odometer readings to counter their “they are all junk” mentality, but if the vast majority of the population have crossed you off their shopping list, failure is certain. GM should be eating some serious humble pie, and offer the warranty as a vote of confidence…
From my perspective as an hourly retiree,Darwins articles have restored a lot of my confidence.Sure, GM didn’t turn him or his friend into GM buyers. But they did come away with a different point of view.
Reading between the lines,it looks to me like GM
has some good dedicated people in the right place.
GM will survive, and the taxpayers of the US and Canada will get paid back.
BTW Count me as one who believes,the “perception gap” is very much in existence.
Agreed that it will take something approaching a full decade of stellar reliability reviews before GM has a snowball’s chance at closing the gap with Honda and Toyota. Say what you will, but the reputation has been well earned, and while GM vehicles (well, some of them) have improved, they cannot undo what they’ve buried themselves in overnight. I’ve driven a few new Malibus, and they are a step in the right direction. Heck, even the Impala, when properly configured, makes a nice family hauler. And as far as the warranty goes, it’s a matter of showing the consumer that you (the manufacturer) have so much confidence in what you produce that you are willing to completely stand behind that product. I don’t think Hyundai’s warranty is a matter of “gee, our cars are so bad we have to do this” as it is a showing of confidence in their cars.
And Grobby…kind of surprised at your experiences with Toyotas of the 90s…I’m driving my son’s 1997 Tercel which is now pushing 200k…I cannot say enough good about this little car! I’m actually considering keeping it until the engine (some day, maybe) dies, and simply dropping another one into it. Compared to the new stuff Toyota is putting out, I prefer the old Tercel…at least that one still has cloth on the door inserts! Matter of fact, the family has pretty much had nothing but Toyota since my parents bought a new Corolla back in 1981…and we haven’t looked back. Now THAT is building a customer base!
Ingvar :
August 18th, 2009 at 5:28 am
I have a question for Mr Hatheway. And this is no sort of flaming, even if it can be seen as such.
But, would you have percieved the marketing event in a more favourable way, hadn’t you been so negatively biased in the first place? I know the whole event was meant to win those people over, the problem is, if there is a negative bias, that bias will continue even after the fact. What I wonder is, will those bad feelings that people righteously harvest ever fade away? Or is it a lost cause to even try? Is GM doomed, no matter what?
Ingvar, that’s an awesome question, and I doubt that Mr. Hatheway would perceive it as flaming.
This is exactly the demographic that GM needs to “seduce”. The car buyer that GM antagonized with substandard product, sales and service that has, at some point, turned to the Asian manufacturers. GM can’t just build better cars, GM has to build the best in every class and warranty them as such. Should GM offer a 10/100,000 warranty, and honour legitimate warranty claims and actually complete satisfactory repairs, it would go a long way to reclaiming the traditional buyers that were alienated over the past 30 years.
Most of us have that bias, and it’s not a “perception gap”, as Bob Lutz would have us believe. Most of the 30 or 40 million customers that GM has alienated will only start to change their beliefs when GM vehicles are at the top of every CR category. Like it or not, CR’s ratings are the most influential benchmark in the marketplace, and until GM can top every single segment, we will still hold onto our biases.
Thank you, Darwin, for the well-written and interesting articles. As to the 10/100 warranty: the ‘10′ part of it is a marketing trick. Most people put 20 thousand miles on their cars in a year easily; thus ten years of warranty is meaningless.
Perception is everything and it creeps into our psyche whether we want it to or not. My perception of Toyota isn’t good, I’ve owned three and don’t ever want another. GM, not a particularly positive perception there either as I swore off of them a long time ago. Things change however and it is important to keep an open mind regardless of what side of the perceptual gap you reside. I’ve driven both the new Camry and the new Malibu; pretty much flip a coin in my estimation; I like them both but not enough to own either.
It almost seems like the author was expecting GM to do everything to please him including scratching his butt and putting a tiara on his head to get him to that “won over” side of the gap. I think the decision needs to be more objective than that. Perhaps Toyota’s entrenched position makes that leap harder to do; I don’t know.
I do think Mr. Hatheway hit on a solid point however and that is the dedication of the managers and workers. It is an essential ingredient to success but it will take more than that; it takes committed buy-in from the top management to do the right things and I doubt that will ever occur at GM with Henderson and Lutz running the show. I agree that Mr. Henderson seems like a nice guy but all I ever hear him say is the same sad sack, chiseling, weasel words most top execs mutter when their companies have been caught in the wrong and they are trying to be contrite. He sounds like a graduate of the Bob Nardelli school of corporate horse$hit and I don’t believe him. Prove yourself first!
Big corporations, including Toyota, have big personalities at the top that have a tendency to muck up the works. I know, I have worked for Fortune 200 companies and know precisely how it goes. In GM’s case, the executive level is insular and intransigent. It needs to go for a full metamorphosis to occur. Wagoner was the start and rightly needed to exit; a few more are going to have to follow in his departing foot steps before “right think” takes over and permeates GM in a constructive manner.
Also not mentioned: Hyundai’s standard bumper-to-bumper warranty is 5 years, 60,000 miles; GM’s is 3/36 on their bread-and-butter cars.
What’s with all this chest-thumping about “we always do the right thing?” Did they do the right thing by refusing to repair the thousands of full-size trucks with the piston slap problem? Did Lutz do the right thing by flip-flopping on safety features (deleting them in 2003 then recommitting to include them by 2010)? Did they do the right thing for each and every one of the tens of thousands of customers who had an intake manifold gasket failure?
Michael Blue> Where do you live???? I can name maybe ONE person out of hundreds that I know that do 20k/year.
My wifes car is right at 12k a year and that is a pretty heavy use. My subaru is at 7k a year, and my bike is 3k/year.
I think the article nailed a couple of the big problems New GM is facing. (or more accurately, failing to address.)
On the one hand they are committed to listening to the customer, but on the other the customer’s voice is hard to hear over Lutz’s pronouncements. New GM continues to claim that there is a perception gap yet, unlike Hyundai, they fail to capitalize on that by offering a warranty that the customer would value far more than it would cost. They call it “New GM,” but it’s the same guys at the top and the same cars in the showroom, less some abandoned car lines and dealerships.
At some point, the New GM will have to realize that in driving away a generation or three of buyers being just as good as… isn’t going to get it; there needs to be a compelling value proposition to conquest loyal Toyota, Honda, et al owners and to this point it’s simply not there.
The “perception gap” only exists between Bob Lutz’s ears. It’s the gap between what customers want and what Bob wants to give them.
I’ve owned 3 GMs, 3 Fords, 2 Toyotas, 1 BMW and 2 Mercedes. Frankly, most were pieces of junk. I won’t bore you with the details, but it’s the repeated repairs and visits to the dealers later in the vehicle’s life that really get expensive and painful.
Unfortunately, later in life for my GM vehicles was about 40k miles. I would like to keep my vehicles 10 years and 200,000 trouble free miles, so far the only vehicle to live up to that standard is our 1995 Toyota Celica which I still own and my 1985 Ford F-150. All the others were traded in or sold with 60-80k on the odometer after demonstrating less than acceptable reliability for the first part of their lives.
I too enjoyed these articles. I think the mindset is quite fair. And I agree that so long as GM tries to win us over with appearance over substance, it will never work.
I agree that the warranty extension would be a good move (unless their internal studies indicate that many of the components will not survive 10 years in typical service).
I am prepared to believe that there is at least something to the perception gap if their new cars are better than their older ones. However, they need to understand that all through the 70s and 80s GM was the beneficiary of a Reverse perception gap. GM sold a lot of substandard cars while free-riding off of a reputation for quality earned from the 20s through the mid 60s.
@segfault
I’ve got compensated for 50% of my intake manifold gasket repair bill via dexcool settlement.
It sounds as if there are some very, very good “worker bees” at GM. My heart bleeds for them. How frustrating to have a good work ethic and sense of responsibility, only to be stifled from above.
>>there’s a few ways i heard of people ’spinning’ the 10yr/100,000 mile warranty? are the cars that crappy that they need them? why do porsches and bmws only have a 3 yr warranty
Unlike GM, Porsche and BMW don’t have to overcome a “perception gap” (though I believe their reliability / cost of repair to be atrocious). Also, they’re boutique items, for which people don’t “depend” as do regular people buying regular cars.
Hyundai had a poor reputation among regular people, and introduced the warranty to tangible demonstrate their improved quality (also a necessary ingredient).
GM is in the same fix, but won’t tangibly demonstrate. Let’s face it, for many (if not most of us) purchasing a GM product is deemed risky. An extended bumper-to-bumper warranty would shift the risk to the manufacturer, which eliminates the risk and prompts a “well, I’ve got nothing to lose so I can take the risk.”
Personally I doubt that GM can produce the quality and back it up with a suitable warranty. The extra costs it incurs because of the UAW mean that it must cut content, quality and/or warranty in order to peddle a product at going market rates (i.e., in the ballpark with the UAW-free competitors who also happen to have better quality reputations). In fact, because of its reputation GM has to, and will continue to have to, offer its products at a discount to its UAW-free competitors, even as it has a higher cost structure.
This is why I believe that long-term all of the UAW manufacturers are doomed. Like giving an oxygen tank to an emphysema patient, the taxpayer bailout has merely bought some time, but won’t change the end result.
I keep hearing the same stories from people –
My dad had an ‘83 GM-Somethingorother,and it was a POS, so I always buy Toyota. My Mom had an ‘97 GM-Whatever, and it always had problems with the gaskets, that’s why I stick with Honda. On and on in the same vein. And I live in Michigan.
GM would be well advised to embrace the fact that there is a gap, and it is not perceptual. They should quit talking about it and start working on it.
Even if the gap were solely one of perception, it takes about a decade for perceptions to change. People are avoiding GM not because of their own experience, but because of their parent’s experiences. If they still want to sell cars in 2021 they better make a very reliable car in 2011.
My wife owns a Hyundai Sonata. When a Jeep knocked off her side mirror in a parking lot, she took it to the dealer. She was given a really nice fully loaded loaner car, kept up to date with status phone calls, the dealer kept the car an extra day because the new mirror housing did not match the color of the door due to weathering. They did not charge extra for a repaint job on the mirror to make it match, or extra labor to remove/reinstall it. That is a dealer experience that makes me want to buy another Hyundai. That is the standard the GM has at least meet, better yet exceed, if they want to get me back as a customer. I am in my 40’s and have never considered a GM car due to all the bad experiences my parents had when I was a kid. GM can win me over, but they have to really work at it. Other manufacturers have won me over in the past after bad experiences. They worked at it, and they made really significant changes. GM is making insignificant, surface changes so far.
What’s most painful to me is the feeling that we’ve let the customers down. I’ve been involved in recalls and they’re painful but we do the right thing. I keep pushing until we do the right thing.
That’s the key statement to me, it shows that management’s default position is to get away with what they can rather than do what’s right. Instead of rewarding those who are looking out for the customer’s best interest, management appears to be content to let them burn out battling management’s recalcitrance.
Quote #1.
It almost seems like the author was expecting GM to do everything to please him including scratching his butt and putting a tiara on his head to get him to that “won over” side of the gap.
Quote #2.
…[T]he whole event was meant to win those people over, the problem is, if there is a negative bias, that bias will continue even after the fact. What I wonder is, will those bad feelings that people righteously harvest ever fade away?
This was an excellent honestly written article, and I’d like to see more from this writer. I can’t say that it was objective, because like a large percentage of the American buying public, he can’t bring himself to trust GM. However, openly admitting a bias is the best approach, as it allows the reader to filter accordingly.
Now the question that is bothering me:
What CAN GM do to win over us doubters? Is there anything that will work? “…including scratching his butt and putting a tiara on his head”.
Talk no matter how sweet or loud isn’t going to get it. GM has cried (and lied) about “New and Improved!” too many times in the past.
I think that the problem we doubters are having is that we don’t see ANYTHING that can be perceived as a serious change to the old way of doing things. “Meet the new GM – he’s the same as the old GM”. It’s going to require a dramatic gesture -something that will make me think that the risks of buying a GM car have been minimized.
Hyundai made a dramatic gesture in their 5 year/50K bumper-to-bumper or 10/100 warranty.
:[T]here’s a few ways i heard of people ’spinning’ the 10yr/100,000 mile warranty?
Are the cars that crappy that they need them?
Why do porsches and bmws only have a 3 yr warranty?
Hyundai’s cars WERE perceived as that crappy. So Hyundai put the warranty out there as a declaration of faith.
Porsche doesn’t need to offer a long warranty because they have a reputation that sells cars. People want the cars enough to take a risk on problems. Who wants a GM car that much? Maybe new Camaro buyers – for a year – until they become common.
BMW cars are durable but not particularly reliable. BMW solves that problem by giving a 4 year/ 50K mile bumper to bumper warranty including light bulbs and wiper blades. Oh- and an extended warranty with a $50 deductible can be purchased out to 100K miles for a few $K. Are you paying for it? Yes, but BMW is in the middle ground between Porsche and GM – They have a desirable sports/luxury reputation, but must still offer some reassurance.
Right now GM has a bad reputation and offers very little reassurance. 5yr 50K drivetrain warranty? Please. I expect ANY modern car to go 5 years without drivetrain problems. Oh, wait. Maybe not GM cars…. See where we are?
Come ON GM! Show me what’s changed. Something? Anything? Bueller?
GM… put your money where your mouth is. Give ALL your cars the best warranty on the planet. Seriously, how are we supposed to believe you when you don’t even believe yourself?
Three questions on warranties:
(1) Were Hyundai cars really perceived as being crappy, or were they just perceived as being an unknown risk? There’s a difference between (a) buying a car from a company with a history of making junk, and (b) buying a car from a company that you’ve never heard of.
(2) If memory serves, the Hyundai warranty is the usual drivetrain only. It doesn’t cover alternators, water pumps, etc. Sure, it’s better to have a car that has a 10/100 warranty on the drivetrain than one that doesn’t, but the warranty itself wouldn’t convince me to buy a Hyundai…lots of other things could break.
(3) If GM offered a 10-year/100K warranty, would it matter? GM is also fighting the perception that they might not be around in 10 years.
i think the philosophy at GM will remain unchanged until a new generation takes over the helm.
Won’t happen. GM’s management is designed in such a way that, no matter how talented, innovative and forward-thinking you are, ten to thirty years of being pounded on the corporate anvil will ensure that, if you don’t break, you’ll end up looking like the next Rick Wagoner.
GM has been doing this to it’s lower- middle management since Sloan turned it from a carmaker into a giant process and accounting exercise.
I’m sure these people are good—but after a few years of having to sublimate what you think is best, or worse: being told by your underlings that what you do is automatically correct—you’re damaged goods.
@ttacfan:
It shouldn’t take a class action lawsuit to get GM to “do the right thing” to correct a design flaw.
BTW Count me as one who believes,the “perception gap” is very much in existence.
My dad was a GM customer for more than 40 years. His last car was a Cadillac STS that he leased for $511 a month. He died earlier this year three months before the lease was up on the car. We asked GMAC if we could return the car early. They told us that by all means to return the car along with a copy of the death certificate and that everything would be all right. The car was in pristine condition and with very low mileage as my dad was able to drive the car very little. Two months after we returned the car, my dad’s estate has been sued by GM for $3500 due on the car, the reason being is that the car didn’t get its residual value at auction. We’ve offered to pay the remaining lease payments ($1533), but no, we can’t. I finally got our attorney to send them a sternly worded letter (along with a copy of the final agreement) that has stopped the process.
If by the “perception gap”, you mean that GM pays attention to their customers and is driven to serve them, then I submit that it isn’t a perception that they don’t, even now.
BTW, I received in the mail, a letter sent to my dad from GM that is offering him a $2500 voucher towards the purchase or lease of any GM car. They must really be paying attention.
GM has been subpar on two different definitions of quality:
1. does the machine work without breaking down? many of us have all heard of/seen this first hand–the busted gaskets, Dexcool problems, electrical problems, etc.
this should be easy to fix…..increase the quality tolerances and pay-up for better OEM parts
2. does the interior/drive/panel gaps give off an aura of quality?
this too should be easy to fix….less hard plastic, more pleather, better instrument panels, well-designed ergonomics.
People aren’t making this “perception gap” up…..it’s pretty straightforward to fix if management is willing to put the money behind its talk.
AndyR: “It was a brilliant idea to ask the product managers about Lutz…”
Truth to tell, I thought I was being sort of obnoxious. But I did want to know what people thought about the leadership and Lutz is supposed to be the car czar, so what’s his real effect on the cars?
Ingvar: “But, would you have percieved the marketing event in a more favourable way, hadn’t you been so negatively biased in the first place?”
In spite of your concern, as Monty said, that’s not a flame at all. It’s a good question. Yes, I wonder exactly how steep my bias hill is. Of course, if I already had faith in GM, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, would we? And there’s plenty more people like me out there. GM’s got some work to do and there are some cases that are going to be tougher than others.
I think, though, it went down exactly as I said… If GM had flown me straight to the cars, they would have won. But they figured it was important to get a message to me from top management. Well, they were right that it was important.
grobby2: “I do believe however, that it is impossible to predict an auto makers future soley based on its past.”
As long as you’re not implying the change can be instantaneous, I agree with you and there’s reason to hope that GM’s products, today, are really hitting the mark.
But priorities come from the top. Even the best processes break down and a clunker hits the streets. What’s the company’s reaction then, when customer satisfaction costs extra money? That comes from the top. The processes that lead to superior products are dependent on significant ongoing investments. This takes resources, which also rely on priorities set at the top. I came away with a disappointing appraisal of the priorties at the top.
Michael Blue: “Most people put 20 thousand miles on their cars in a year easily; thus ten years of warranty is meaningless.”
An EPA report I glanced at suggests an average of 12K miles per year. We do perhaps 9K per car. Dave does something like 12K. The flip side of your observation is that a 5/100 warranty is actually a 5/45 warranty for me. Everybody offers at least that, so GM’s 5/100 has no competitive advantage with me.
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If GM offered a 10-year/100K warranty, would it matter? GM is also fighting the perception that they might not be around in 10 years.
That’s a good point. GM ought to have offered such a warranty a long time ago when they had the money and Hyundai was making hay on the promise.
They also ought to have backed it up with generous claims fulfilling rate, as Ford did. For reference, Ford’s improvement in quality and warranty performance precisely coincides with their rise through CR’s ranks.
Now it may be too late. GM has not the money to backstop their existing obligations, let alone a 10/100.
As long as GM keeps scolding us that we are wrong in our perception that GM quality is inferior, I will still walk away befuddled by the fact that they think they can shame me into parting with my money. When they go on the offensive like that, all it tells me is that they have run out of options and are in panic mode to do something fast.
Precisely. It reminds me of that old adage “the more he talked of his honor, the faster I counted my spoons.”
John
Was there any discussion about improving the buying experience at GM dealerships?