Toyota has been racing the LF-A at endurance races.

I remember them finishing 124th i believe at the nurburgring 24 hour.

Wow, really? Every Acura is a ‘rebadged’ Honda becuase the Acura nameplate is US only (or at least was at the time of NSX).

Great post – thanks.

Over the years I was lucky enough to spend time with the great Ove Andersson on a number of occasions.

When Toyota suddenly pulled from World Rally and jumped into F1, he was quite effusive about the “greater plan” that would eventually tie it all together.

I’m not sure I understand it in this market yet, but Prius to LF-A with leaders and/or near-leaders in every segment might continue to work.

Secondly, people criticizing the car’s packaging and price need to take a closer looks at its competitive set. Yes, $375,000 is a stratospheric figure, and perhaps too high (particularly for Toyota’s first true modern supercar). However, it’s in the right range. This car is not a competitor to 458 Italias and Gallardos and V8 Vantage Astons. It’s a high-powered, track-ready front-engined GT car with a normal cabin and a modest trunk. Its natural rivals are the Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano, the Mercedes SLR McLaren, and (to an extent) the Aston Martin DBS. The Ferrari is $325,000-ish (with nearly the same power-to-weight ratio); the Aston is much cheaper at about $275k (but is heavier and rather less powerful). However, the SLR started at $450,000 in 2005, and is more than a half-million now. The SLR has more power (about 617 hp, versus 554 in the LFA), but weighs 600 pounds more. By the SLR standard, then, the LFA is fantastic value for money, and Lexus aim to sell just 500, whereas Mercedes was trying to sell seven times as many. Finally, those that sneer at the LFA just because it’s front-engined need to do a little reading: look at the performance figures for the Ferrari 599 and tell me they’re something at which to scoff.

This is my main reason for commenting, though: I think the LFA actually makes some sense. It doesn’t mesh well with Lexus’s current branding, but it does — in some ways — point the way toward where they’d like to be. If Lexus is really serious about being respected as an equal player to the Germans, they need lots more sport in the lineup. The IS-F points in this direction, but the LFA does it even better.

For years and years, people have sneered about Toyota/Lexus “appliances”, cars that are soulless isolation chambers, allergic to sporty driving (as if Chevy and Ford midsize and large sedans were some sort of Maserati Quattroportes on the cheap). There are a lot of luxury/sport buyers who would never consider a Lexus for precisely those reasons, because they believe Lexii to be stodgy cars for old peopole, or think other people will think that. Therefore, the LFA is a glass of ice water in the face of such people. It’s Toyota saying, “You think we can’t make a world-class sports car? You think we don’t know how to make a car that stirs the blood? Really? Wrong answer.”

I think that the LFA is a halo car that makes sense, because, fundamentally, it gives credibility to the idea that Lexus can build a hardcore GT car. And if Lexus can do that, they can (theoretically, at least) build a sports sedan. The link will be even stronger if the next F model, the rumoured GS-F, is actually powered by a V-10, as has been suggested numerous times. Even if only the basic architecture is the same, it’s a powerful link to the LFA. Toyota is giving its owners and fans a way to refute the charge that it is a totally boring car company. If their goal is to win some sports sedan buys who otherwise would buy something Teutonic or a Jaguar, then this is exactly the thing they need to foster an impression of sport in the lineup. Then they have to follow through on the F models, and let that percolate through the more garden-variety models of the IS/GS/LS lineup, but it’s still a good idea, marketing-wise. I don’t know if it will work, but it seems to send the right message — sportiness is coming to Lexus.

Lastly, just look at the specs: it’s a pretty impressive machine. We’ve become jaded these last few years thanks to the horsepower wars, but this is an authentic 200-mph car, which is still a rare thing. A 9000 rpm rev limit is just as fun, and the noise is superb, if a bit unusual for a Lexus. I agree that it should cost less, but it is going to be a serious performance machine, if the numbers are accurate. Aside from the engine, it’s not particularly unconventional, and the transmission is the same as the pack, not particularly innovative, but it’s still an exciting car, from an enthusiast perspective.

1) In the world of advanced low emissions cars that people actually buy the Prius kicks the Insight’s ass.

2) Hyundai, which was making a Yugo grade piece of crap cars back when Honda was already well established with years best selling Accords, can make a RWD V8 luxury sedan and a RWD turbo-I4 coupe, and Honda can’t.

3) Acura has never sold a good car (except for the rebadged Honda NSX), and survives only by selling rebodied, pimped Honda SUVs.

A Toyota powered supercar with a much more storied brand and much more interesting engine location can be had for 1/10th the price at one’s local Lotus dealer.

Much better than this robotic freak.

Or hell, clean MR2 Spyders are $10-13K.

Nonsense. What DOES matter is being left stranded at the side of the road while punks driving Aveo’s lean out the window and yell “Get a Corvette yuppie scum”.

Trust me, this car will be a HUGE HUGE HUGE flop.

I’ll take Toyota/Lexus’ ability to work out what their target market will buy rather than yours.

The ONLY thing that could save it would be MAJOR RECORD breaking performance….

In just a few outings they’ve performed pretty well already. Easily frightening a few manufacturers.

Saying that, at a $370k price point, reliable luxury loses its potency. Anyone who can afford to shell out that kind of money for a car has plenty of Mercedes and BMW and every other damn thing to ferry him or her to and from wherever they want to go every time they want to go. Hell, they probably have a second car stuffed with security men following them around.

Above the price point where a car ceases to be like a tissue, wealthy buyers prize pedigree. Exclusivity. What they really really want is pedigreed exclusivity.

So, a few questions:

1. WTF does the LF-A have to do with luxury? About as much as the IS-F, I reckon. Which is something, but not much. Not enough to fit the brand’s remit, certainly.

2. Who wants a Lexus sports car? The SC was an ugly joke, but it kinda sorta made sense. In the same way that the Mercedes SL makes sense. As a Lexus, the LF-A lacks ANY of the aforementioned brand cachet. Unless, I dunno, they race it or something. Which would contaminate the “core” products’ purity. No win.

3. Isn’t this a repeat of the Maybach debacle, only worse? The Maybach made top-of-the-line Mercedes owners feel poor. The LF-A sets the bar annoyingly high(er) for Lexus LS owners.

4. Pedigree chum?

In conclusion, no matter how awesomely awesome the LF-A is, and I’m sure it is, Lexus needs this high-priced NON-LUXURY halo car like a hole in the head. It actually damages the brand.

Interesting observation.

The exotic supercar field has had to get their shit together as people expected to be able to drive those cars more miles. For a long time they couldn’t do it because they were so fragile.

The “everyday” supercar might be something the Japanese can do. Time will tell for the GT-R, but I know a few NSX owners who have extremely reliable experiences.

Maybe the LF-A will help lift the bar further. “Pedigree” needs to be defended with still better products, as Porsche are discovering from the GT-R attack.

Many supercars in it’s price range had similar levels of performance. The problem with the NSX is that Honda never improved it. It’s a reminder that Honda really was, and is, small and does have limited resources to spread around.

The nice thing about the NSX is that a) the chassis was worlds ahead of many contemporary exotics at the time and b) it really was about as benign as Prelude in terms of ownership. I think people forget this, what with modern Ferraris being reasonably reliable and modern Lambos not requiring you to bake, contort or otherwise compromise your physical health to drive.

The NSX was also cheaper (both to buy AND maintain) than contemporary Ferraris. The $100k+ that a Ferrari or Lambo buyer would save over buying this thing can pay for a LOT of repairs.

Yes, but as with this car, was that $100K worth it? Think about the 308, 348 or God help me, the Diablo or Countach. Terrible cars, both to own and to drive, next to the NSX. But they did have “pedigree”, and were fun. Note that I’ve never driven one, chiefly because I can’t fit in the damn things; the cockpits are so bad.

Now, in those terms, the LF-A isn’t nearly as revolutionary, mostly because it’s not as cheap, but also because the Italians don’t suck quite so badly anymore. But it will be interesting to see what Toyota brings to the plate, especially if the car does turn out to be easy to own and—this is important—easy to buy. There’s a lot of very newly rich people—likely more to come as the income gaps spread and the economy recovers—and the very rich aren’t always willing to put up with the kind of crap Ferrari or Mercedes puts prospective and current owners through.

V8 and hybrid versions to follow.

It does sound appealing, but Ito is conveniently ignoring all the mass and volume needed for the hydrogen fuel cell system. Why do you think the Clarity is so huge to begin with?

Fuel cells are relatively low power. Honda doesn’t like to mention this but to even get that 10 second 0 to 60 time, the Clarity has to use (that’s right) a battery (rumored to be about 16kWh). The car is essentially a serial hybrid with a (~1 million dollar) hydrogen fuel cell range extender (with a nearly non existent fueling infrastructure) and a battery they won’t let you charge from an outlet.

Now consider this. The Tesla Roadster Sport costs $136K and has a 0 to 60 time of 3.7 seconds. To get that kind of performance out of a fuel cell, the stack would have to be very large, meaning the car would be huge and would cost millions of dollars.

Maybe the v10 is an offshoot of a F1 design

But it would need RWD, manual trannies / dual clutch auto and a bunch of other stuff that Toyota really doesn’t do

The NSX was also cheaper (both to buy AND maintain) than contemporary Ferraris. The $100k+ that a Ferrari or Lambo buyer would save over buying this thing can pay for a LOT of repairs.

This car also has nothing unique going for it. It’s a front-engined V-10 car-like a Viper. Actually, the Viper is more powerful and looks better. I’m not saying a Viper is a better car, but if I’m paying that much I would at the very least want something mid-engined and/or V12

As for the LF-A. Please step away from the crack pipe. Priced at $130,000 or less and you’ve got something…. And even then it’s questionable as a 500+ HP benchmark 997 TT can be had for that kind of money. This car is a total fail….

As for the Lexus, I agree it’s not $100K better than a 458, but at least you’ll be able to drive it 100% of the time. And I don’t think either car is really that pretty. Loving the IP.

As far as honda, I don’t think they are calling sour grapes. They will be the first to bring a reasonably priced green sports/sporty car to the market.

sfdennis1 :
October 21st, 2009 at 2:15 pm

Agreed that $375K is pretty aggressive pricing…is this car going to be $100K hotter than the new Ferrari 458 Italia? Doubtful.

It looks 100k better than a 458 in my opinion and more exclusive to boot.

Precisely. Toyota is asking a select few customers spend more for a Toyota than a Ferrari, Aston MArtin, Porsche, Lambo, etc., all established super car brands. Sorry, but I don’t see why anyone would drop that kind of cash to be seen in a Toyota. I don’t generaly see people point and whisper to each other, “Is that a Toyota?!” Make no mistake, that is a big part of owning a supercar, to be seen.