Comments on: Honda Prius-Fighter Caught Testing

By: Visuddha

Visuddha — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:00:23 +0000

Peeps curious about any 45mpg non-hybrids might be interested in the Alfa Mito and Fiat 500, both of which are making their way to our shores:

http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-alfa9-2008jul09,0,1320097.story

I think the Alfa’s dead sexy. I’m definitely going to take a look.

By: Pch101

Pch101 — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:39:41 +0000

Maybe I am way off base but I think it would be possibe to make a decent car that gets 45 mpg
without the expense and weight of batteries.

Can’t be done. It is not possible to build a car with modern safety equipment and adequate power that could get 45 mpg and decent performance from a conventional engine.

The only solutions would involve far less power or less weight. That’s a no go, either way.

By: MH900e

MH900e — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:40:18 +0000

It is definitely a Honda. As others noted, the shape of the badge, also there is a Honda emblem on the front passenger window (lower left corner), and the wiper blades are from a company I previously worked for which doesn’t supply to Toyota.

By: AJ

AJ — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:05:36 +0000

Dang, it is about as ugly as the Prius.

By: TEXN3

TEXN3 — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:58:57 +0000

That car looks as much Honda…some giveaways include the 4-lug wheels, the grill’s emblem shape (4 sided, wider on top than bottom), shape of the headlights and grill are similiar to the new Accord but just not as overwrought, and the rear quarter-panel shape as well as the license plate surround are very similiar to previous Hondas…especially the new FCX. In fact, after this comment I googled the FCX and this car looks like a 7/8-scale version of the HCX.

I wonder if they’ll call this the HCX.

By: M1EK

M1EK — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:46:26 +0000

RedStapler, as they do on hybrids. Before I left on this business trip, my tank mileage on the new Prius was 53.6 – mostly highway.

By: geggamoya

geggamoya — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:06:39 +0000

“I can see where regenerative braking saves energy.
I would like to see a car that uses batteries and
a motor for just this purpose – no other generator
or big bank of batteries on board.”

Some BMWs have “Brake Energy Regeneration” along with auto start-stop.

By: RedStapler

RedStapler — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:54:10 +0000

Don’t forget the Jetta TDI that gets 41mpg Highway. The EPA numbers tend to skew a bit low on oil burners.

By: John Horner

John Horner — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:12:11 +0000

Speaking of E85, I wonder if Ford’s new EcoBoost engines will be tuned to run higher boost pressures when E85 is in the tank and lower pressures with plain old gasoline? The only advantage of E85 is it’s naturally high octane rating and subsequent resistance to pre-detonation. A real flex-fuel vehicle might be able to take some advantage of that fact. Current flex-fuel vehicles get horrible economy when running E85 thanks to the fuel’s low energy density. A portion of that can be gotten back, in theory, with very high compression ratios. Variable physical compression ratios are hard to do, but varying the turbocharger parameters is much easier.

By: rtz

rtz — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:25:38 +0000

Make mine electric so I don’t have to buy anymore fuel. I’m ready to kick the habit.

I’ve got my current ride running E85(cheaper) till I switch to electric.

By: toxicroach

toxicroach — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:14:29 +0000

I dunno morbz, but I’d assume that if Toyota could have made a non-hybrid midsize that got 45 on the highway they would have. Or someone would have. I mean hell my Fit gets less than that, and its lighter.

By: mor2bz

mor2bz — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:06:41 +0000

Maybe I am way off base but I think it would be possibe to make a decent car that gets 45 mpg
without the expense and weight of batteries. If so
it would certainly be a lot more fun to drive.

In my opinion, and i am certainly no auto engineer,
the hybrid is designed to scream save the planet
more than to save gas.

I can see where regenerative braking saves energy.
I would like to see a car that uses batteries and
a motor for just this purpose – no other generator
or big bank of batteries on board.

Am I nuts?

By: ZoomZoom

ZoomZoom — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:02:48 +0000

I can’t see it, fellas. It’s easy to change door, fender, and quarter panel cutouts. Not so easy to change the skeleton. And this skeleton is EXACTLY the same.

What about my other suggestion? Could it be a Prius purchased and chopped up by Honda techs for a battery, engine, and wind test, maybe not even planned for production?

Haha, or maybe a hoax. Quick, somebody get on this and check Snopes!

By: Paul Niedermeyer

Paul Niedermeyer — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:43:25 +0000

ZoomZoom, You’re not looking carefully enough. It is a Honda. Wheels, compare the front of the car with the front of the Civic hybrid – very similar. The rear quarter has Clarity written all over it, and the rear door shape and cut-out is all different from the Prius. As several have said, a very good aerodynamic shape tends to follow certain lines.

By: John Horner

John Horner — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:18:46 +0000

I don’t think this is a next generation Toyota Prius. For one thing, why would Toyota change wheel bolt patterns? As others have said, there are not many shapes which meet the aerodynamic and packaging considerations of a Prius class vehicle, and the market expects a Prius contender to look like … a Prius. Japanese companies have long made clone products when it suits them.

Having Toyota and Honda duke it out for sales of this class of vehicle will be great for the consumer. Too bad about all those other automakers who aren’t even playing in the game.

By: ZoomZoom

ZoomZoom — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:31:55 +0000

Fellas, I think Edmunds and you have all been fooled.

That’s NOT a Honda. It’s a black Prius with a new hood, new doors, and a new hatch. Look at the windshield rake, the angle of the B-pillar, and the angle of the hatch pillar.

Just like I can recognize the face of my own mother or my friends and acquaintences, I don’t have to measure those roof angles to recognize that it’s a Prius!

Now, the question in my mind is WHO’S Prius is it…Toyota’s, or Honda’s?

Could it be a 2010 Toyota? Or could it be a Honda-purchased and modded Prius; maybe in a pre-design phase, or maybe in a battery technology test of some sort?

It wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer bought a competitor’s car and tore it apart or used it as a test platform for new technology.

Tnink about it, the Prius form-factor is successful. The Prius frame has a low drag coefficient, it already has a place for batteries, and a ready-made pathway for electrical wiring, as well as an engine bay that has the room for a hybrid ICE-Electric drive.

By: Richard Chen

Richard Chen — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:33:26 +0000

@Wunsch: agreed, the styling is a dead ringer, spinning the 360 degree view below to compare the two vehicles. The FCX Clarity is a bit larger than a Prius at 190″ long, 72″ wide, though.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/exterior-360-view.aspx

By: kjc117

kjc117 — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:55:33 +0000

You are 100% sure it’s a Honda?

By: solo84

solo84 — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:48:53 +0000

and the Volt by GM is no where in sight…

By: improvement_needed

improvement_needed — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:42:58 +0000

looks like a 4-door insight to me ;)

By: Wunsch

Wunsch — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:42:04 +0000

That really does look a lot like the FCX Clarity. Who knows, maybe this hybrid will just be called the Clarity, without the “FCX” designation.

By: Robstar

Robstar — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:22:24 +0000

I know sub $17k might sound silly to alot of you, but my main rides are an 18mpg car (winter use only, almost paid off) and a 38-48mpg motorcycle (paid off). Since I basically only use the car in the winter, and I don’t use it daily in any season, any hybrid would have to come out EXTREMELY cheap for it to save me $ (or gas would have to skyrocket).

Ah well, maybe I shouldn’t be in the market for a car?

By: thoots

thoots — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:14:51 +0000

Geez, you’re not kidding — what an utter Prius copy!

It sure doesn’t seem to be “bigger than Prius” in terms of interior room — look at the people sitting in the thing. It doesn’t look like it’s giving them boatloads of room around them. At the very least, it appears to have a higher seating position than Prius. Which would be very anti-Honda-ish….

By: superskier

superskier — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:12:06 +0000

Anyway, that’s not a Honda caught testing. I don’t know what Edmunds is thinking.

By: dhanson865

dhanson865 — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:43:26 +0000

@NICKNICK about highway speeds and hybrid fuel efficiency

All numbers are EPA 2008 hwy only

First lets compare hybrid vs non hybrid

Camry manual or auto = 31
Camry hybrid = 34

Civic manual = 34
Civic auto = 36
Civic hybrid = 45

In the case of the Camry the engine size is the same, maybe they make it up in transmission gearing.

In the case of the Civic the non hybrid gets a 1.8 liter 4 cyl engine, the hybrid gets a 1.3 liter 4 cyl engine. 1.8 vs 1.3 is a noticeable difference in my book.

anyway comparing the 2008 EPA hwy numbers for anything I could find non hybrid above 30 MPG or so vs the usual suspects we have

Prius 45
Civic Hybrid 45

Smart fortwo 41 (coupe or convertible)
Mini Cooper manual 37
Corolla manual 37
Civic auto 36
Yaris manual 36
Corolla auto 35
Yaris auto 35
Fit (either) 34
Civic manual 34
Mini Cooper auto 34
Matrix manual 33
Matrix auto 31

Hopefully that makes it obvious how much the hybrid gains you even in highway driving.