The domestics have an interesting relationship with the press and auto media. 5 years ago, I used to work at a Pontiac Buick Dealership in suburban Vancouver BC as a stock controller. Part of my duties included managing the GM of Canada Western Zone Media fleet, where I would handle the bookings of press vehicles with the different local media folks. It was a fun job – got to meet the press, do the walk around with them, get to personally drive them to make sure nothing was amiss etc. Anyways, some GM ‘process analysts’ came out to the Zone office and were reviewing the policies and processes of the press loaner program. It was interesting sitting in this meeting, with the folks from Oshawa (Canada’s Detroit), the local zone managers and my counterpart from another dealership that handled Chevrolet Oldsmobile. We got to sit in on a meeting where the GM folks discussed things like who fills the gas in the press car, why we charge them for washes when the cars are supposed to come back washed and vacuumed, how a GM person cannot borrow a GM car if he/she/it has a company car already etc etc. Aside from being a waste of time, it struck me at how ‘THEM vs US’ the management were with respect to the auto media. They were convinced they were out for ‘a free ride’ and that they were using GM for cars, and not writing glowing reports. I actually heard one of them say ‘ I would love to nail these media a$$holes with a few bills for a few car wash and gas bills’. It was unbelievable how they would be so petty on these little things. If they said ‘don’t worry about it’ and let it slide and were generous and showed a bit of customer service to the media folks, they might have got more positive reviews, and more sales.

Oddly enough, there is plenty of apparently biased reporting against the domestics in the Detroit press. I never quite understood it, but they seem to take great pride in printing every negative story they can, regardless of the underlying truth. Go figure.

Regarding your ‘middle management’ family member. The guy sounds clueless. I wouldn’t blame that on an ‘insular environment’, unless he’s personally responsible for making his own environment insular. I can’t really speak for what goes on at the VP level, but down ‘in the trenches’, anybody I’ve met with a lick of sense knows exactly what the score is. Believe me, driving on Woodward or Hines Drive you’ll see plenty of non-domestic vehicles considering the fact that the domestics are all headquartered here. Not to wish him ill personally, but I really hope that he and anybody else like him will be the ones gone come February, because we need to cut the clueless out of the organization if we expect to survive and thrive.

Talk about an insular environment! He’s convinced that the automotive press has it in for Detroit, yet he thinks that’s what everybody drives. Well yeah, just take a ride on Woodward or Hines Drive, and you’d think all of America is driving Ford and GM products.

He never sees the competition at home, so he’s not convinced that there’s a problem. Hence, he won’t even discuss other cars. It’s almost to the point of being “stuck on stupid.”

I’ve given up trying.

tech98 wrote: “Very few Angelenos under the age of 70 would be seen in a Cadillac, except perhaps a pimped-out Escalade with spinners. Palm Springs or Phoenix is more their customer base. “

Spinners. Ug! A couple years ago, I saw a TV commercial about “Class vs. No Class”. Spinners were in the “No Class” category, along with those 3-foot-tall deck spoilers on front-wheel-drive cars.

I saw a car just recently where one of it’s spinners was malfunctioning. As the car moved, the spinner appeared to remain “stationary,” making the car look like a busted “Hot Wheels” car where one wheel axle is bent and no longer works. Sad, sad, sad. And oh-so-”No Class.”

LA is full of poseurs who only care about status and wealth — hello Cadillac!

Very few Angelenos under the age of 70 would be seen in a Cadillac, except perhaps a pimped-out Escalade with spinners. Palm Springs or Phoenix is more their customer base.

I have that book…as I recall, Mr. Yates said that he originally coined the term in an article for Car & Driver.

It’s an interesting read.

Another interesting book is Make ‘Em Shout Hooray!” by the late Richard Stout, who worked at Packard and then Lincoln-Mercury in the 1950s. It’s a fascinating insider account of how the beancounter mindset – best symbolized by former Ford head Robert McNamara – gradually took over Ford, and then GM.

Aside from casting aspersions all over the joint, you are missing the point of the article.

America is now 300,000,000 people strong.

Having the seat of all Domestic Automotive production be centered fortress-style in one city has and is proving disterous.

I think Ford should stay in Dearborn, but send Mercury to Chicago and Lincoln to New York. Or anywhere. GM is in an even better position. Old folks like Buicks — move to Palm Beach. “Red-staters” (whatever the hell that means) like pick up trucks — GMC to Dallas, post haste! LA is full of poseurs who only care about status and wealth — hello Cadillac!

etc.

Seperate them. Diversify. Do something!

Thank you for writing such a creative and informative article. You have certainly done well fostering a lively discussion; however, it makes me sad to see that many of my fellow TTAC members are missing the point of your editorial.

I agree with most (but not all) of your observations and feel that your suggestion for the big 2.5 to move their HQ’s to three opposite locations is a sensible/creative one (although maybe not new – according to readers of Yates). However, it is in my opinion that such a move (at this time) could prove meaningless since much damage has been done (financially & spiritually). Not to mention it would be a logistics nightmare for each company to deal with.

Do you think it would be more advantageous for them to “wait out the storm” before planning a move or would doing it now position them for a strong positive resurgence?

If I were to pick where they should move, here would be my picks:

GM’s Exec. & Admin. HQ => North Pole
(since they think they’re on top of the world anyways)

Ford’s Exec. & Admin. HQ => Detroit, MI
(no reason to move a company with no vision, like a blind man… just walk him in a circle and tell him he’s somewhere new)

Chrysler’s Exec. & Admin. HQ => Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg (Deutschland)
(to be with it’s fräulein)

To my fellow TTAC peers… does anyone know if it would be more appropriate for me to laugh or cry if the position of CEO (from one of the big 2.5) was outsourced to say… India?

-Go Minnesota Wild!

In my experience at Ford, a LOT of the high level execs either come from overseas or spend a significant amount of time there . . . for a long time the top of the house has had a significant British flair to it. It’s nearly impossible to get near the top without time at Mazda or in Europe or South America unless you’re a woman or a minority. Of course Alan Mulally is still out west (for now), and I *believe* that Mark Fields still commutes weekly from New York. It’s really a bit unfair to drag out the ‘old white males’ saw, as well . . . while the absolute top may fall in that category, please don’t neglect the others that don’t. The lately departed Anne Stevens, head of marketing and sales Cisco Codina, heck even Jaques Nassar hardly fit into your characterization. And there are plenty of others slightly lower on the food chain (lower level VPs and Directors) who are not generic white males.

As I said, I’m not necessarily disputing the problems, but think you may be stretching to make a point wrt your causes. Frankly, it almost sounds like a case of ‘if only they lived in California’ more than anything . . .

“Executives from all industries live in certain areas.”

Is it still the case that Ford executives live in the Grosse
Pointes and GM executives live in Birmingham and Bloomfield
Hills? This is what I remember from the early 1980s and
it seems beyond belief even now.

We were installing new docket management software. Part of our task was to reduce the insane number of weekly reports that the lawyers cranked out. The number was over 500. A week.

We would go to a paralegal and say, “What is this report for?” She would say, “I don’t know. I have to print it out every week and get so and so to sign it.”

Then we would approach the lawyer. “What is the purpose of this report?” He would say, “I don’t know. She just puts it on my desk every week and I sign it.”

We eliminated over 300 weekly reports.

I remember my project manager freaking out at lunch one day because the consulting firm (Deloitte & Touche I believe… maybe Aurthor Anderson) had figured out that there were a number of employees that had been working in the legal department for more than 30-years and who had no job whatsoever. They didn’t do anything. They showed up, hid in an office and collected a check.

My project manager was a very good natured man and he was upset that he had (was being forced to) recommend so many layoffs.

I happened to be there when the infamous $4.8 billion verdict was handed down against GM for defective gas tanks. Most of it was punative damages. They didn’t even react. The whole department immediately went into appeals mode. Total and complete business as usual.

Worst of all, I was tasked with personally tutoring the chief attorney on the new software. He didn’t know how to use a computer. However, that was fairly typical of 60+ year old lawyers in the late 90s. I was used to that.

However, this man was a walking god to them. I had five people “assist” me when I was instructing him. The only parallel I can think of is a friend of mine who while living in Japan decided to take a trip to North Korea. He explained how they had a single tour guide plus four agents who monitored the guide’s every word and gesture.

It was insane.

Luckily, the head counsel — who was a very nice and intelligent man — booted everyone from his office after an hour of me getting interupted and occasionally pulled outside and told not to say anything negative about the product.

This was just one 500-person department. I can’t even imagine how the top brass operates.

Myopic is putting it very kindly.

I would argue that Detroit HAS learned a few new tricks in the last 20-25 years. Look, for example, at Ford, which today is much more international in many facets of its operations (e.g., most of its car platforms come from abroad, as do more than a few of its executives).

The problem seems to be that Detroit hasn’t adapted quickly enough to the sea changes sweeping American society. Each of the 2.5 has somewhat different dynamics. GM’s insularity is very much anchored in its historic domination of the industry, whereas Ford’s tends to revolve more around the politics of being a family controlled company. In contrast, Chrysler’s insularity seems more rooted in an inferiority complex of being an often-sickly No. 3.

It’s difficult to talk about this stuff without lapsing into unsatisfying generalities. But one thing I most liked about Yates’ critique was his description of the social conformity of Detroit’s executive class — these white guys (women and minorities need not apply) pretty much spent their entire existence hanging out with the same folks on and off the job.

Someone needs to do an update of “The Decline and Fall.”

I read the piece as about insularity, complacency and lack of view. It doesn’t matter that it involved the city of Detroit. It could’ve been anywhere–the only difference would’ve been how exactly that area’s culture translated into insular non-competitiveness.

While insularity can happen anywhere, Detroit certainly facilitates it. Executives from all industries live in certain areas. Whites and blacks live in certain areas. Detroit doesn’t draw talent on its own. Next to nobody says, “I really want to live in Detroit! I just need a job that takes me there.” Instead, jobs force people to move to Detroit.

Detroit’s even geographically isolated. Folks traveling from state to state has no reason to drive through Detroit or any of Michigan. Detroit gets very few tourists outside those on layovers from Northwest Airlines. Heck, even the airport is long way from Detroit.

A constricted world view can, and does, happen everywhere. Detroit just makes it easy.

Yeah, I think you've been reading Yates too. This isn't exactly a new idea. The scary thing is, it's still relevant TWENTY-FIVE YEARS after Yates published _Decline and Fall of the American Automobile Industry_. Modern day Borgias; they forget nothing and learn nothing.

Let me update you, though–most of the auto execs moved out of GP after the riots, during Coleman Young's 20 year long administration, to Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills. GP is like the Green Zone in Baghdad–you have to go through some scary stuff to get there, and once you're there you still don't feel really safe. Folks who posted above who can't believe this, just haven't been there. At least Bloomfield Hills has Birmingham, Royal Oak and Ferndale for a buffer.

I've lived in a lot of places, southeastern Michigan most recently. It is truly insular. And by what you see on the roads here, you would think that the US industry is doing great. I pass a solid stream of new Fusions on the way to work. Went to St. Louis a few weeks ago–didn't see three Fusions the whole time I was out of MI.

I first saw it in Yates’ book ‘The Decline and Fall of the American Auto Industry’ in 1983.
If you read that, you’ll depressingly realize that Detroit has learned nothing in the last two decades.

Here in Houston, with the exception of work trucks and Tahoe/Suburbans/Expeditions, car-wise the 2.5 are hosed.

Perhaps its cyclical. Perhaps just incompetence. Regardless, its very obviously the end of an era.

Detroit execs really *are* like underwear gnomes!

Step 1: Build cars
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!

I think the article is bang on: Silicon Valley geeks made the same mistake in 1999 – it’s well known group-think. The way I see it, Detroit still doesn’t make any products that really interest me (and, to be honest, even Toyota and Nissan make very few as well). Not even the C6 vette (give me for the same amount in used Porsche), not even the trunkless-overweight Solstice/Sky.

What’s just been said of the auto biz can said of many industries too, but the urgency here is almost unparalleled.

The fact that we are capable in this country of producing the best the human imagination has to offer – but don’t – should be unnaceptable.

And the sense I get is that the myopia includes some deluded sense of entitlement within the big 2.5 that we, as Americans, should be expected to buy American. That’s all well and good, but have enough respect for our sensibilities – and hard earned money – to innovate, build and present to us cars that we actually want to buy.

http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0-5-7182-1-558633-1-0-0-0-0-0-8668-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

So, I guess there is at least a Chrysler presence there, by marriage.