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	<title>Comments on: Bailout Watch 341: GM&#8217;s &#8220;Partnership&#8221; Proposal (PNGV II)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/</link>
	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:17:20 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kurt.</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1161312</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1161312</guid>
		<description>@Rev Junkie,

&lt;em&gt;&quot;How one tunes to get adequate power out of a little 1.4L engine, God only knows, but...&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

I may be getting old but I (fondly) remember when the mightiest cars in the world were 1.5L fire breathing monsters. We called them F1 cars.

In Europe, most cars - including diesels are less than 2L (due to taxes and artificially high gas prices). 

Just one more thing - city and highway seems are comparable to the US. A 750cc Smart Roadster would be just as fun on I40 as it is on the Autobahn and that would equate to even more fun than a Solstice!

I know, it&#039;s off your point about the Volts drivetrain but small engine performance CAN be more than adaquite. If you get a reliable car with 100 HP from 750cc just think what you could get from one of the new clean burning 2 strokes of the same displacement!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->@Rev Junkie,</p>
<p><em>&#8220;How one tunes to get adequate power out of a little 1.4L engine, God only knows, but&#8230;&#8221;</em></p>
<p>I may be getting old but I (fondly) remember when the mightiest cars in the world were 1.5L fire breathing monsters. We called them F1 cars.</p>
<p>In Europe, most cars &#8211; including diesels are less than 2L (due to taxes and artificially high gas prices). </p>
<p>Just one more thing &#8211; city and highway seems are comparable to the US. A 750cc Smart Roadster would be just as fun on I40 as it is on the Autobahn and that would equate to even more fun than a Solstice!</p>
<p>I know, it&#8217;s off your point about the Volts drivetrain but small engine performance CAN be more than adaquite. If you get a reliable car with 100 HP from 750cc just think what you could get from one of the new clean burning 2 strokes of the same displacement!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Mekira</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1161131</link>
		<dc:creator>Mekira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1161131</guid>
		<description>Blast from the past (kinda)~~~~I actually saw the car in the picture at a Mobil station of all places in Livingston County when I was 11 in 2001. All the GM research person cars that were following it had to fill up I guess. While my mom was filling up our car I got out and talked to the people in the Precept and told them I knew what the name of the car was under the camouflage. They seemed really nervous. Didn&#039;t they know Popular Science published a whole spread about it two months earlier???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Blast from the past (kinda)~~~~I actually saw the car in the picture at a Mobil station of all places in Livingston County when I was 11 in 2001. All the GM research person cars that were following it had to fill up I guess. While my mom was filling up our car I got out and talked to the people in the Precept and told them I knew what the name of the car was under the camouflage. They seemed really nervous. Didn&#8217;t they know Popular Science published a whole spread about it two months earlier???<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Usta Bee</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1160682</link>
		<dc:creator>Usta Bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1160682</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what everybody&#039;s bitching about, they did make an energy efficient car, and it&#039;s a BUICK too !.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwig1tgUtY&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I don&#8217;t know what everybody&#8217;s bitching about, they did make an energy efficient car, and it&#8217;s a BUICK too !&#8230;..</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwig1tgUtY&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwig1tgUtY&amp;feature=related</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: PeteMoran</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1160502</link>
		<dc:creator>PeteMoran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1160502</guid>
		<description>The USA needs a comprehensive Energy Policy that provides a clear path for; efficiency everywhere, renewables, &lt;em&gt;research&lt;/em&gt; and independence.

Companies and governments can make decisions and get on with business.

The USA needs to communicate to citizens that the use of fossil fuel energy is very likely to be extremely expensive, or hold the nation captive to outside interests.

Obama might be the man....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The USA needs a comprehensive Energy Policy that provides a clear path for; efficiency everywhere, renewables, <em>research</em> and independence.</p>
<p>Companies and governments can make decisions and get on with business.</p>
<p>The USA needs to communicate to citizens that the use of fossil fuel energy is very likely to be extremely expensive, or hold the nation captive to outside interests.</p>
<p>Obama might be the man&#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Rev Junkie</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1160162</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev Junkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1160162</guid>
		<description>Not to be pedantic, but the Volt is an electric car.  The power to the wheels comes from the electric motor, the gas engine just charges it up when power is low.  Unlike a hybrid, which has a HYBRID of energy supplies, the gas engine is never directly powering the wheels.  I suppose the upside of this versus a gas-electric hybrid is that the Volt is limited to diesel levels of engine speed, never exceeding 4200rpm.  How one tunes to get adequate power out of a little 1.4L engine, God only knows, but I hope GM can make a profit out of this eventually.  Besides, that follows Alfred Sloan&#039;s philosophy, and, remember, America&#039;s sports car was born of that policy.  The Corvette didn&#039;t make money for years.  And on the subject of early GM philosophy, the &quot;car for every purse and purpose&quot; mantra can be effectively applied with the quintet of remaining GM brands, Chevrolet for everyman, GMC for the working man, Buick for the Lexus, Audi, Acura, Infiniti intenders, Cadillac for Benz, Bimmer, and Jag buyers, and Pontiac (what&#039;s left of it, unfortunately) for the enthusiast.  The optimist in me hopes that this more streamlined operation works, but, as I&#039;ve seen, this site never focuses on the sunny side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not to be pedantic, but the Volt is an electric car.  The power to the wheels comes from the electric motor, the gas engine just charges it up when power is low.  Unlike a hybrid, which has a HYBRID of energy supplies, the gas engine is never directly powering the wheels.  I suppose the upside of this versus a gas-electric hybrid is that the Volt is limited to diesel levels of engine speed, never exceeding 4200rpm.  How one tunes to get adequate power out of a little 1.4L engine, God only knows, but I hope GM can make a profit out of this eventually.  Besides, that follows Alfred Sloan&#8217;s philosophy, and, remember, America&#8217;s sports car was born of that policy.  The Corvette didn&#8217;t make money for years.  And on the subject of early GM philosophy, the &#8220;car for every purse and purpose&#8221; mantra can be effectively applied with the quintet of remaining GM brands, Chevrolet for everyman, GMC for the working man, Buick for the Lexus, Audi, Acura, Infiniti intenders, Cadillac for Benz, Bimmer, and Jag buyers, and Pontiac (what&#8217;s left of it, unfortunately) for the enthusiast.  The optimist in me hopes that this more streamlined operation works, but, as I&#8217;ve seen, this site never focuses on the sunny side.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Ralph SS</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1159032</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph SS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1159032</guid>
		<description>&#039;After all, as Burns says “we all seem to be coming to the conclusion that the automobile as we know it — powered by a combustion engine — must eventually go the way of the horse and buggy. It is simply not sustainable.” &#039;

Define sustainable.  Theoretically no power consumption is sustainable.  But we don&#039;t know what the future holds.  I&#039;m pretty sure that ICE&#039;s will carry us through 2012.  That might be long enough.  Assuming we all make it past that point there is a least a chance that, using hydrogen or something else, they could go another 100 years or more.

But I guess I&#039;m missing the point.  He&#039;s just looking for another jive plan to get more of my childrens money without having to give anyone anything.

On the other hand...
&quot;Its as if we all agreed going back to being under-powered reptiles that constantly worry about staying warm in the sun and conserving energy is the way because it reduces greenhouse gases&quot;

Perhaps we (ok, CarnotCycle) have solved why reptiles have apparently weathered changing environmental conditions that other species haven&#039;t.  Or maybe everyone else besides me knew that already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8216;After all, as Burns says “we all seem to be coming to the conclusion that the automobile as we know it — powered by a combustion engine — must eventually go the way of the horse and buggy. It is simply not sustainable.” &#8216;</p>
<p>Define sustainable.  Theoretically no power consumption is sustainable.  But we don&#8217;t know what the future holds.  I&#8217;m pretty sure that ICE&#8217;s will carry us through 2012.  That might be long enough.  Assuming we all make it past that point there is a least a chance that, using hydrogen or something else, they could go another 100 years or more.</p>
<p>But I guess I&#8217;m missing the point.  He&#8217;s just looking for another jive plan to get more of my childrens money without having to give anyone anything.</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Its as if we all agreed going back to being under-powered reptiles that constantly worry about staying warm in the sun and conserving energy is the way because it reduces greenhouse gases&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps we (ok, CarnotCycle) have solved why reptiles have apparently weathered changing environmental conditions that other species haven&#8217;t.  Or maybe everyone else besides me knew that already.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: RogerB34</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158981</link>
		<dc:creator>RogerB34</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158981</guid>
		<description>What happened to Inconvienient Truth&#039;s Freedom Car joint venture? Gov provides the green and Detroit makes it vanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->What happened to Inconvienient Truth&#8217;s Freedom Car joint venture? Gov provides the green and Detroit makes it vanish.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: menno</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158772</link>
		<dc:creator>menno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158772</guid>
		<description>GM could have called that rear engine hybrid &quot;thing&quot; in the picture.... 

the Chevrolet CorVolt.  (Corvair + Volt, get it?)

Badump, bump.  Thank you, thank you.  I&#039;m here all week.  Tip the waitresses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->GM could have called that rear engine hybrid &#8220;thing&#8221; in the picture&#8230;. </p>
<p>the Chevrolet CorVolt.  (Corvair + Volt, get it?)</p>
<p>Badump, bump.  Thank you, thank you.  I&#8217;m here all week.  Tip the waitresses.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: RedStapler</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158641</link>
		<dc:creator>RedStapler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158641</guid>
		<description>The car picture has quite the resemblance to the 2nd gen Prius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->The car picture has quite the resemblance to the 2nd gen Prius.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: 200k-min</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158521</link>
		<dc:creator>200k-min</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158521</guid>
		<description>Well, I wouldn&#039;t say the PNGV was completely wasted...at least not in the sense that the much larger bailout amount is being pissed down a drain today.  

The program was canceled by the Bush Admin. at the request of the automakers two years before they were to have a market ready car.  Problem is, none of them applied what they had to anything in production.  An 80 mpg diesel hybrid may have been a stretch for 2003, but 50 mpg?  Had they done that we perhaps wouldn&#039;t be bailing out GM today?  Instead they were more interested in high profit SUV&#039;s at the time.  Look where that got them.

Additionally, I&#039;ve read that the exclusion of Toyota from the PNGV was their motivator in developing the Prius.  When gasoline topped $4/gallon I&#039;m sure GM was wishing they had that in their lineup.  Well you idiots, you could&#039;ve.  

Bet they also wished they hadn&#039;t ditched the EV1 too.  I don&#039;t want any new &quot;partnerships&quot; with &lt;i&gt;dead auto companies walking&lt;/i&gt; because they failed to do anything with the last partnership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, I wouldn&#8217;t say the PNGV was completely wasted&#8230;at least not in the sense that the much larger bailout amount is being pissed down a drain today.  </p>
<p>The program was canceled by the Bush Admin. at the request of the automakers two years before they were to have a market ready car.  Problem is, none of them applied what they had to anything in production.  An 80 mpg diesel hybrid may have been a stretch for 2003, but 50 mpg?  Had they done that we perhaps wouldn&#8217;t be bailing out GM today?  Instead they were more interested in high profit SUV&#8217;s at the time.  Look where that got them.</p>
<p>Additionally, I&#8217;ve read that the exclusion of Toyota from the PNGV was their motivator in developing the Prius.  When gasoline topped $4/gallon I&#8217;m sure GM was wishing they had that in their lineup.  Well you idiots, you could&#8217;ve.  </p>
<p>Bet they also wished they hadn&#8217;t ditched the EV1 too.  I don&#8217;t want any new &#8220;partnerships&#8221; with <i>dead auto companies walking</i> because they failed to do anything with the last partnership.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: CarnotCycle</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158462</link>
		<dc:creator>CarnotCycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158462</guid>
		<description>Heat engines have sure turned into the whipping boy for all that ails the world apparently. It&#039;s kind of ironic that human beings are heat-cycle motors running at a much lower temperature, kind of a weird self-loathing at work viewed that way. 

Its as if we all agreed going back to being under-powered reptiles that constantly worry about staying warm in the sun and conserving energy is the way because it reduces greenhouse gases (it would too, no more cows!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Heat engines have sure turned into the whipping boy for all that ails the world apparently. It&#8217;s kind of ironic that human beings are heat-cycle motors running at a much lower temperature, kind of a weird self-loathing at work viewed that way. </p>
<p>Its as if we all agreed going back to being under-powered reptiles that constantly worry about staying warm in the sun and conserving energy is the way because it reduces greenhouse gases (it would too, no more cows!).<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: psarhjinian</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158461</link>
		<dc:creator>psarhjinian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158461</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a better idea: why not provide an artificial incentive to buy more fuel efficient vehicles?  Tax credits, offset lease/buy incentives, actual purchase credits.

After all, if supply-side government interference was---as GM&#039;s executives themselves argued---a bad idea when we did it under CAFE, it&#039;s a bad idea here, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Here&#8217;s a better idea: why not provide an artificial incentive to buy more fuel efficient vehicles?  Tax credits, offset lease/buy incentives, actual purchase credits.</p>
<p>After all, if supply-side government interference was&#8212;as GM&#8217;s executives themselves argued&#8212;a bad idea when we did it under CAFE, it&#8217;s a bad idea here, too.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jcoll</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158451</link>
		<dc:creator>jcoll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158451</guid>
		<description>Ah, see you missed the opportunity for a Simpsons Monty Burns graphic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ah, see you missed the opportunity for a Simpsons Monty Burns graphic&#8230;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: guyincognito</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158432</link>
		<dc:creator>guyincognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158432</guid>
		<description>“sharing the public/private risks and rewards” 

Like now, the public takes the risk and the private company gets the reward. Yay!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->“sharing the public/private risks and rewards” </p>
<p>Like now, the public takes the risk and the private company gets the reward. Yay!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: menno</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-burns-calls-for-partnership-fool-me-once/comment-page-1/#comment-1158312</link>
		<dc:creator>menno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=217672#comment-1158312</guid>
		<description>&quot;$1.5b of your tax money wasted with nothing to show for it&quot;

That fact used to rile me up a bit.  Now - phsaw.  Chump change!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;$1.5b of your tax money wasted with nothing to show for it&#8221;</p>
<p>That fact used to rile me up a bit.  Now &#8211; phsaw.  Chump change!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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