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	<title>Comments on: GM: Carbon Fiber Not Mass-Marketable. Foliatec: Rock and Roll!</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/</link>
	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:41:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: SexCpotatoes</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101167</link>
		<dc:creator>SexCpotatoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101167</guid>
		<description>Screw it, what my car is SO missing;  Carbon fiber key fob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Screw it, what my car is SO missing;  Carbon fiber key fob.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Holzman</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101152</link>
		<dc:creator>David Holzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101152</guid>
		<description>I want Foliatec muffler bearings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I want Foliatec muffler bearings<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Landcrusher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101137</link>
		<dc:creator>Landcrusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101137</guid>
		<description>To answer the question brought up on this subject in the podcast- yes, CF is more brittle than E glass (traditional fiberglass).

However, if you hire one of those guys with a useful degree who is willing to get his hands dirty, work for a living, and yet, not be part of a union (you know, a real engineer), and you then ask him to make it crashworthy, he will use geometry and a mix of composites to make you a practically bullet proof part that is both more flexible and lighter than steel. 

The jury is still out on cost of repair because while it does become trash in a serious crash, it can be stronger and keep a crash from being so dramatic. You need long term fleet studies that compensate for the cost of repairs that are currently inflated due to lack of skilled workers (its a chicken and egg thing). In aviation we went through this phase and it is now known that a properly made composite plane is stronger and cheaper over time than aluminum. Bird strikes and ground manuever accidents really tell the tale. The only thing comparable is chrome moly frames with aluminum skin which is quite heavy, but really strong.

It is true that CF is still really expensive, but from what I understand it&#039;s more of a supply and demand thing rather than a cost of ingredients and energy thing. If car makers really want it, they need to build their own fab.

Fair Disclosure: I am no expert. What I know is from talking with and working for aircraft manufacturers and from owning a composite aircraft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->To answer the question brought up on this subject in the podcast- yes, CF is more brittle than E glass (traditional fiberglass).</p>
<p>However, if you hire one of those guys with a useful degree who is willing to get his hands dirty, work for a living, and yet, not be part of a union (you know, a real engineer), and you then ask him to make it crashworthy, he will use geometry and a mix of composites to make you a practically bullet proof part that is both more flexible and lighter than steel. </p>
<p>The jury is still out on cost of repair because while it does become trash in a serious crash, it can be stronger and keep a crash from being so dramatic. You need long term fleet studies that compensate for the cost of repairs that are currently inflated due to lack of skilled workers (its a chicken and egg thing). In aviation we went through this phase and it is now known that a properly made composite plane is stronger and cheaper over time than aluminum. Bird strikes and ground manuever accidents really tell the tale. The only thing comparable is chrome moly frames with aluminum skin which is quite heavy, but really strong.</p>
<p>It is true that CF is still really expensive, but from what I understand it&#8217;s more of a supply and demand thing rather than a cost of ingredients and energy thing. If car makers really want it, they need to build their own fab.</p>
<p>Fair Disclosure: I am no expert. What I know is from talking with and working for aircraft manufacturers and from owning a composite aircraft.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: skor</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101136</link>
		<dc:creator>skor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101136</guid>
		<description>CF is now commonly used in high end bicycle parts, including frames, forks and crank sets.  I believe that the majority of bikes used in the recent Tour de France were CF frames.  As far as I know, there have been no catastrophic failures -- the Tour de France racers can hit speeds of 50-60 mph on the downhills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->CF is now commonly used in high end bicycle parts, including frames, forks and crank sets.  I believe that the majority of bikes used in the recent Tour de France were CF frames.  As far as I know, there have been no catastrophic failures &#8212; the Tour de France racers can hit speeds of 50-60 mph on the downhills.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: storminvormin</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101092</link>
		<dc:creator>storminvormin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101092</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll carbon fiber my double-decker spoiler. That extra weight will add some downforce to my Scoupe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ll carbon fiber my double-decker spoiler. That extra weight will add some downforce to my Scoupe.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: carguy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101068</link>
		<dc:creator>carguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101068</guid>
		<description>I guess the fake carbon fiber can join the fake exhausts, fake air vents, fake rear spoilers, fake leather and other fake after market junk on the list of things you don&#039;t need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I guess the fake carbon fiber can join the fake exhausts, fake air vents, fake rear spoilers, fake leather and other fake after market junk on the list of things you don&#8217;t need.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: quasimondo</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101060</link>
		<dc:creator>quasimondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101060</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t be fooled by Foliatec.  That fake nonsense is best left on the shelf.  All it takes is one look at real carbon fiber to see how cheesy and lame the imatation stuff is compared to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Don&#8217;t be fooled by Foliatec.  That fake nonsense is best left on the shelf.  All it takes is one look at real carbon fiber to see how cheesy and lame the imatation stuff is compared to it.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sammy Hagar</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101040</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Hagar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101040</guid>
		<description>Somewhere a 19-year old Neon owner is having a wet dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Somewhere a 19-year old Neon owner is having a wet dream.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: timoted</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101035</link>
		<dc:creator>timoted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101035</guid>
		<description>Only if they come with CF knobs for radio and heater controls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Only if they come with CF knobs for radio and heater controls.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: starlightmica (Richard Chen)</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101027</link>
		<dc:creator>starlightmica (Richard Chen)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101027</guid>
		<description>How about fake CF inlays for the dots on a pair of fuzzy dice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->How about fake CF inlays for the dots on a pair of fuzzy dice?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Landcrusher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101022</link>
		<dc:creator>Landcrusher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101022</guid>
		<description>CF made with good epoxy will outlast anything GM ever made that was put to more abuse than being rubbed with a diaper and wax.

Idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->CF made with good epoxy will outlast anything GM ever made that was put to more abuse than being rubbed with a diaper and wax.</p>
<p>Idiots.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: timoted</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101020</link>
		<dc:creator>timoted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101020</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take CF brakes and wheels to go with that CF driveshaft. While your at it, I&#039;ll take a CF frame. I&#039;ll let the &lt;em&gt;Ricky Racers&lt;/em&gt; have the rest for their interiors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ll take CF brakes and wheels to go with that CF driveshaft. While your at it, I&#8217;ll take a CF frame. I&#8217;ll let the <em>Ricky Racers</em> have the rest for their interiors.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: guyincognito</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101017</link>
		<dc:creator>guyincognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101017</guid>
		<description>I want a carbon fiber drive shaft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I want a carbon fiber drive shaft.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: barberoux</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101010</link>
		<dc:creator>barberoux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101010</guid>
		<description>Carbon fiber composites usually have a gel coat on the finished side to make them feel and look nice.  Without the gel coat the finish is rough and susceptible to damage.  The gel coat could be probably textured to reduce the plastic feel and look.  Of course it would increase costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Carbon fiber composites usually have a gel coat on the finished side to make them feel and look nice.  Without the gel coat the finish is rough and susceptible to damage.  The gel coat could be probably textured to reduce the plastic feel and look.  Of course it would increase costs.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: thetopdog</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/comment-page-1/#comment-101003</link>
		<dc:creator>thetopdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/gm-carbon-fiber-not-mass-marketable-foliatec-rock-and-roll/#comment-101003</guid>
		<description>Carbon fiber on the interior of a vehicle is so useless that this fake stuff is probably just as good as the real thing.  Carbon fiber looks cool but is pretty much a tactile disaster, it&#039;s not really something I wish to run my hands over.  It&#039;s funny how every reviewer criticizes a car for having hard plastics but most give carbon fiber a pass even though it feels exactly like hard plastic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Carbon fiber on the interior of a vehicle is so useless that this fake stuff is probably just as good as the real thing.  Carbon fiber looks cool but is pretty much a tactile disaster, it&#8217;s not really something I wish to run my hands over.  It&#8217;s funny how every reviewer criticizes a car for having hard plastics but most give carbon fiber a pass even though it feels exactly like hard plastic<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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